Injectable glue forwood–toconcrete slab
Hello Gents-
I year ago I glued down 300 sq ft 3/4″ solid unfinished 5″ oak plank flooring on top of a new slab with a Siika brand adhesive and propietary pad. The pad was supposed to act as vapor barrier with slits cut into it that accepted the glue (glue very similiar to PL400/ subfloor adhesive.
After a wet summer in Colorado and a year for the slab to cure the wood has buckled something fierce in two areas. On top of that the entire floor has become ‘loose’ as I feel much of the glue has failed.I know I commited the cardinal sin (unfinshed wood glued to slab) but Im stubborn and this is my own house.
I see two alternatives – rip it out and use different floor covering or re-glue it down.
The reason Im writing is to see if anybody has any info on an injectable expanding-foam type adhesive that I can inject into holes drill into the oak. I’m thinking of making it look like th old face-screwed-and dowled look. I also expect to resand this floor after Im done.
HELP?
Thank you- Torey
Replies
Gorilla glue might work.
I guess you now have the "I shouldn't have ..." items figured out but maybe you should review them for the benefit of others contemplating this same thing.
A - A new slab will be turning losse of moisture for at least a year to three years in an amount that will be hard on wood flooring.
B - A slab sghould be poured with a VB UNDER IT and a sealer on top so this crazy sheet would be redundant.
C - without the sheet of so-called VB, you would have had a better seal with the glue
D - Any wood installed in a damp environment should always be backprimed on all surfaces first.
I wouold try Gorilla Glue for your attempted fix. Pet stores are one location for syringes, but some woodworkers catalouges also have them available. You definitely don't want to work straight out of the bottle for something this large. A syringe will help you keep the holes smaller too.
Gorila glue will expand as it cures and it cures by moisture, so it would be ideal for you here. I would test a spot in a couple ways - This is theory only here now - As it foams out, it will most likely try to expand back up and out the same hole you put it into, but if you can plug that hole, you force it tospread out horizontally in the seam layer where you want it to. So I would try to plan to have a supply of 1/2" sheet metal screws the same size as the hole you decide to drill. plug each one with the screw immediately after injecting the glue. Then later, you can remove the screws and fill the holes with a wax filler or redrill larger for plugs
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drill counter sunk holes...
Inject Gorilla glue...
3/16" tapcons...
Plugs..
refinish...
Sound plauseible????
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All the tapcons I have use had a washertype hex head. do they make flathead with shoulder to fit a countersink too?Might work pretty solidly, but i use and think of them as for rough work.
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Yup.. Flat head Tapcons are to be had... 3/16 or 1/4"..
Same lengths as hex-headed..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
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Come in 3/16 and 1/4"
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Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Hey Piffin,My guess is that your fix will lift his floor right off the slab. IMERC's suggestion in the next post (4) would be better, as the Tapcons will restrain the wood. If it was my place, I'd try a small test area and wait a few days before committing major resources. It still may need to come up. Of course, the good news is that it will probably never be this wet in Colorado for the rest of this century.Bill
wet is an understatement..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Thanks for the input. I'm going to try small spot before I commit a weekend over something I never should have done in first place.
Torey
I did say to experiment with a small area frist, but I like Imerc's suggestion too.
RE Tapcons, I find that the 3/16" bits that come with them seem to only work well for a doxen holes or so. After that, the holes must get progressively smaller in diameeter as the cutter wears out because I have more and more tapcons breaking after the first dozen on a bit.
I buy Bosch bits and canget a good fifty holes out of them.
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Ditto on the bits..
I like the ones with the hexed portion on the shank so I can use the condrive system...
and I would have fallen back to square one and started all over again..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Fourth and punt.
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Piff: He's in Colloroddy - he can go to any livestock/farm supply store & buy syringes as large as he needs - the kind used on horses, cows & hogs. Not those wimpy little things used on Chihuahuas an canaries. They cost about a buck apiece, if not less!
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
You need a syringe with a large diameter needle. (Thick glue simply won't flow through a standard needle.) Regular medical syringes will tend to have small needles, so syringes made for glue et al are better.
A big critter yringe will work... Some will hold a pint or more of fluid...
gorilla glue will readily flow if warmed... Put the bottle of glue in a pan of hot water.. Cake and pie...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
You havent seen many of the livestock syringes have you?
Dan: Use them all the time for glue. Just need to get a needle large enuff. And they come thattaway for hogs, etc. Also great for injecting odor killer under a wall-to-wall carpet to combat dog pee.
DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
I just use the syringe without the needle end on it.
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Be sure to weight down the area you're gluing, so the expanding glue doesn't cause it to lift.
If the timber is buckling because of moisture from the slab, whatever method you use to try and fix it down is a complete waste of time.
Nothing will stop it expanding except curing the moisture infiltration.
If there was no membrane underneath the concrete and the concrete test showed moisture then the most effective way would have been to seal the top of the slab with an epoxy before laying the timber. Unfinished timber can be used with absolute safety on a dry slab -- nothing should be fixed to a wet one.
IanDG
I agree that if the moisture is coming from without, then this is a waste of time, but if a VB was used, tjhen it may be that the moisture from within the slab has now stabilised and the floor will change no more.
As a pro, I wouldn't want to touch it without taking it all they way out and starting from testing. But I'm willing to let someone like the Noch experiment and help us all learn from it.
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Imerc's idea of the tap cons is a good one. My own kitchen floor was a mess with old cut back glue that no one gave me a good solution on how to remove so I could ceramic tile.
As a temporary fix until I came up with a solution I put down 1/2" birch plywood. Before you judge let me say I had a lot of the plywood around at the time. I sealed both sides with three coats of Poly floor urethane. I laid a foam vapor barrier down just incase of unknown moisture. I left the sheets as big as I could. I countersunk then screwed them down with a nice looking blue headed tapcon type concrete screw. We tossed about some paper vegatables and fruit then polyed those down.
For a temp solution it looks good and has worn well, going on 2 years and no issues.
I would suggest in this situation to weight the floor around the areas your going to try to screw back untill the injected glue dries and the wood can adjust.
Torey,
Although almost all posters have said to "re-glue" the floor...I'd say rip it out!
You got a floor slab moisture problem and until you have rectified that, you are simply wasting your time and money. Yeah, tapcons could easily work in your situation, especially if you don't mind plugging the plank for that "old-timey" look....BUT, how do you know this slab is now dry enough? Wood flooring may want to lift later in another spot...plus, being unfinished, if it stays wet, mold and mildew rot will eventually occur.
I mean hey, 300 SF is what, a room approx 15 X 20? Quit trying to save it and instead remove it as carefully as possible. Re-saw or plane down what ever you can salvage and use this lumber for some other project or trim accent in your house. In the mean time, also get rid of that stupid VB pad and figure out just what kind of flooring will work with the situation you have. Unfinished flooring that rests on concrete is not the solution.
Davo
A discussion is not complete with the antagonist- I was waiting for this response. What I learned from this is that concrete wont cure for 1-3 years! I thought it was like poly on a floor- 7-10 days and its done. I am concerned with future moisture, so I may tear up and put into another home I'm getting ready to tear into
Thanks for the antagon-ism Davo-
Torey