Replies

1. 
   Clewless1 | Dec 16, 2009 08:42am | #1

   Or choose door #3 ... there could be something REALLY great there. ;)

   The tax credit, I believe will always reduce the net tax burden. e.g. Let's say you paid $3,200 in taxes and are due to get $1,200 back; your net tax burden is really $2,000. The tax credit will reduce this, so you'd be getting an additional $480 back. However, you can't go below zero (e.g. if your tax credit exceeded your net tax burden); but I think you can extend the credit (this is where my knowledge falls apart ... if it didn't already in the previous sentence). Tax laws change so much that you should verify w/ your tax consultant.

   Most guys here would say avoid the blown fiberglass and go with cellulose ... you may not see much cost difference and you will probably get a better result energy wise (plus you recycle newspapers).

   Economically speaking, your existing R-10 is killing you. I don't want to discourage you from doing e.g. an R-49 (I'm surprised that is recommended out there). The R-10 has reduced your heat loss through your ceiling by say 75%. Your additional R-40 will reduce your current heat loss by another say 20%. Your sealing work may dwarf your savings, and that is a good thing. Your additional R will last a lifetime. Assuming you can afford the install, it is a good thing to do. Pay your money, take your choice on the financial incentives. If 'Cash for Caulkers' is only a proposal, you might wait ... but then you might get door #3 ... no tax credits and no other incentive ... a bird in the hand may very well ...

1. 
   timr | Dec 16, 2009 02:50pm | #2

   Clew, thanks for your input!

   R-49 is what a few different web sites recommended for my area. A few others say R-30 to R-60… R-49 seemed like the average. I understand the concept that “twice the insulation” is not “twice the efficiency”. I’m definitely going to seal up any possible air leaks beforehand (and I’ve got to put some baffles in at the soffit. Maybe with the air leaks sealed, R-30 would suffice.

   Why would you (and most folks here) suggest Cellulose of Fiberglass? A couple of articles I’ve read in FHB recently seem to lean more toward Fiberglass?!? When I ran the numbers, I also looked at Cellulose. It was very similar in cost with Fiberglass for the same R value, but it would require 3 times as many packages for the same R value. I’m insulating an attic, so moisture shouldn’t be an issue (if it is I’m in trouble). It seems the blown Fiberglass is a little cleaner/easier to go in?!?

1. 
   Clewless1 | Dec 17, 2009 07:32am | #3

   R-30 to R-60! Wow ... what a range. Like saying how far is it to NY from Denver ... oh about 1,000 to 2,000 miles.

   If cellulose is about the same cost ... I'd go cellulose w/out blinking. BLOWN fiberglass seems to have this characteristic of allowing more free air flow through it (e.g. in an attic). After having actually seen it, I don't disagree. But R-value is R-value ... theoretically ... but tested static hot box R-value isn't necessarily quite the same as real applications. Having worked with many insulations and understanding the science behind insulations,I'd still go cellulose. I don't recall any specific studies on this topic (though I have CRS and there may easily be some). This is more of an intuitional feeling based loosely on my past personal knowledge and recollection of other's experiences/opinions ... hope that ain't too wishy washy for you.

   Not sure what issue of FHB you refer to. Were they talking blown FG? (vs. batts)?

   I'd install what you are willing to pay or what your comfortable budget is. R-30 would generally be the bare minimum anywhere, I think. If you are willing to bring it up to an R-38, that would be a good value ... I think you were in a 'semi-mild' climate if I recall. Forget 'how many packages' it takes ... I think that is an irrelevant issue, really. You are talking about bringing your insulation UP TO these values we discuss, not adding these values, right?

   As far as cleaner/easier ... they both go in 'easy'. Remember, cellulose looks dirty, but fiberglass has a lot of 'invisible' fibers that float around easily as much as cellulose. Personally, I HATE the fiberglass dust ... even when cutting batts, it drives me nuts (coughing and itching) ... I subed out my batt wall install ... the bid installed was no more than my cost of the materials alone, retail ... it was a no brainer (which is dumb luck for me ;) ).

2. 
   Mongo | Dec 17, 2009 09:23am | #4

   My impression is you're doing
   My impression is you're doing this DIY? If so, then I'd take the money now.

   The new program might not be DIY-friendly. The proposed language requires the homeowner to hire an energy auditor, who does a home inspection (blower door test, etc) and then comes up with a laundry list of "upgrades" that could be done. You negotiate a price, have the work done, pay for the work, then get your money back when you file. You can't do the work yourself.

   While it will improve your home's efficiency, my impression is it's more of a "jobs" program that will force you to hire outside people to do the work than it is a pure "upgrade the thermal envelope of your house" program.

   So I'd take the bird in the hand...

3. 
   timr | Dec 18, 2009 09:26pm | #5

   Clew, I thought the range was a little big too…. R-30 was ‘good’, R-49 was ‘better’ and R-60 was ‘best’… not sure how they came up that grading scale. My latest thought was to add R-30 for a total of R-40 (sorry I wasn’t clear on that). FHB 206 had a couple good articles on insulation. The new “how it works” section compared how FG, cellulose and spray form work and the types of heat transfer that occurs within each. The other article was on retrofitting old walls with new insulation. It talked about blown FG and blown cellulose. Then Mike Guertin did an article in FHB 200 on sealing up and adding insulation to an attic. The article shows him adding blown cellulose, but in the video of him doing his own home, he uses blown FG.

   Mongo, you are correct… this is a DIY project. And since I’m off next week, I plan to go ahead and knock this out.

   I appreciate both of your input… thanks a lot and have a good holiday!!