I couldn’t resist a real deal ($60. for pair of beaut primed Fr. doors).Existing doors porch to deck in sad shape. If I paint the exteriors w/ a good ext latex trim, and carefully seal the wood/glass ext edges w/ paint, think they could last mebbe 10 years? Also, can anyone recommend how to preserve the bottom and side edges, or would regular ext trim paint do?
Any estimates on carp cost to hang and install doors and hardware?
(I know, it all depends…) THanks!
“Somebody Please Hep Me!!” Little Richard for GEICO
Replies
Who knows how long they will last but I think you would notice that a lot of heat goes out those doors because they are probably not double-paned or insulated. If you're in a cold part of the world I would think they won't be very effective, therefor largely useless.
If you're in San Diego then maybe you could get away with it.
Maybe someday I'll know a little something.
I forgot to mention: The porch is unheated, so heat loss is not an issue. There is another insulated ext door from porch to interior of house. Porch is freezing in winter.
sorry, but you're likely to have some problems. Interior doors usually aren't as thick as exterior doors, so the only way you're gonna get them to work is to rebuild the jams. Then you have the problem of securing the door. Then you have the problem of sealing around the doors to keep the wind and rain from getting in, around and under. Today's exterior french doors are pretty well engineered for the purpose, and trying to make this one work is probably a whole lot more difficult then it's worth, and still won't be anywhere near as good as a door made to be used for exterior.
A good deal is only good if it works.
SHG
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
SGH: There are not flimsy interior doors, they are very thick and heavy and seem top quality. Seller told me such a pair at Lowes @ $1k .Seems to me that install/sealing issues solvable for this rustic 100 yo home,and the cold uninsul porch. But what do I know? Maybe it's a fool's errand...Guess I could resell easily...Any encouragement out there to proceed?
hey, you asked. Why would I argue with you? Do whatever you want, but if you don't want to hear the answer, then don't ask.
ShG: your comments noted. and your drift.
Sure I'd like to have a deluxe solution w/proper stuff. But I'm an old retired pensioner w/o lotsa $. Just trying to make do at min cost.
Bump this for Any other replies to my original questions?
Existing jambs good. Porch floors can take any wind and rain. Doors are beauts, real wood muntins (no phony plastic inserts!).
What's the thickness on these doors?
SHG is only partially right, you don't have to rebuild the jamb to accommodate the new doors, you have to move the stop and fiddle around with the strike but I don't see that as rebuilding. All the other things that you have to do to make the door work your going to have to do them regardless of whether or not you use a interior or exterior door.
I would consider using interior doors to a porch but not flimsy doors, they'd have to be somewhat substantial and it sounds like you may have that.
Doug
I might try using them too, tho it's hard to say without seeing them in person. They are already primed, which sometimes means somebody had somethimng to hide. They would need an astragal and closing hardware.BTW, do you really work with exterior jambs that have moveable stops? I can't remember the last time I saw that on ewven an interiro jamb, but on an exterior????
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Piffin
I read the mans post as he wanted to install these doors into an inclosed porch. That made the decision easier for me.
I might try using them too, tho it's hard to say without seeing them in person. They are already primed, which sometimes means somebody had somethimng to hide.
None of us have seen them so obviously that is a concern but he did say they were "thick" dont know what that means for sure.
All ready primed could mean they came from the factory that way, dont know for sure. were they ever hung before, that might lead to the answer of the "hidding something" theory.
BTW, do you really work with exterior jambs that have moveable stops? I can't remember the last time I saw that on ewven an interiro jamb, but on an exterior????
I'd have to go back and look but I dont recall saying that I worked with exterior jambs that have moveable stops???
I think this is getting a bit on the rediculus side though, hell the man lives in the house he was born in, intends to stay there until the good lord decides to take him away and all he wants to do is hang some french doors into an inclosed porch and all of a sudden he's a damn butcher for ruining a house that someone is going to have to come along and fix someday. And he's on a fixed income to boot!
Maybe I'll just leave these hard ones for SHG to answer, I'm obviously not qualified to do it.
Doug
Personally ...being the recipient of a home that sellers cut corners with and tried to create a false sense of security through cheap cost-I would be giving you a major lecture right now for even considering to make something look good if for resale to up your profit rather than providing something proper. I have spent a year in a state of chaos because that was what the sellers did to me. Be honorable, those people that will buy into the beauty not knowing proper construction will never forget the agony and problems you caused them. Unless this is all for yourself and you are prepared to deal with the additional damages that moisture accumulation will cause for a not properly insulated door. The ripple continues after the pebble has been thrown.
I am now in a legal battle and angered by the selfishness of those who tried to be cheap just because they didn't have money. I would have rather bought knowing what to expect and if things that were done were done correctly. I don't have the money either to fix someones cut corners. But I will certainly remember how much I hate them now for the additional agony they caused me. To make it look pretty to fool yourself and others for the long run. Do you really think your saving money?That is what you would be doing...fooling yourself and the naive..especially now that you have inquired about this and have better understanding of what a proper outside door is.
PLUS: I think those proper engineered doors are the way they are because of all the issues the not proper ones have.
Why try to challenge problems already solved in the building industry.GOOD LUCKEdited 9/23/2006 3:46 pm ET by Love to flossEdited 9/23/2006 3:48 pm ET by Love to floss
Edited 9/23/2006 3:49 pm ET by Love to floss
heh heh Now yer trying to sell yer house. Roar!
Job,
Been lurking here a number of years? Retired and in CT at 74years of age?
Breaktime here is full of a large number of different fields of expertise as well as bona fide amateurs, DIYers and wannabees.
Anytime a question is put forth the more information included in the description of the problem the better the answers as solutions sometimes range into goodly variety.
Most regular posters as revealed in this thread have your own best interests in mind or they wouldn't bother posting a response.
Being a forum aimed at FineHomebuilding most often responses adhere to right function and technique in the trades so the very fact of an interior door heading to an exterior raises a red flag.
That being said and from the data you have provided, this being your own house and wanting to better a crappy shaped likefrenchdoor unit, prep it up best you can and do it.
I mean this isn't a paid job you are doing for someone else with liability issues and the like of your rep.
It can be done and you'll receive pleasant satisfaction from a good purchase and a lot of your own labor.
Seeing they doors are exactly the same size I'm betting you could even do a passing job installing them yourself if you researched and put your mind to it.
Best to you on your endeavors.
Give 'er hell and cheers!
Will the wind ever rememberThe names it has blown in the past
You know what, Rez, I just may go ahead and DIY - the hinges are already installed on the doors, I'd just have to measure/trace where the hinges need to go, then chisel out as needed, screw the hinges in place, then a dead bolt or 2 to secure em from the inside, and voila! Sound easy! ..Course, I just may have to call in the cavalry when I get in trouble, to save the project, he he.Reading some of these post, maybe Tauton shoulda named this site TAUNTING...
Job
Rez gave you some good advice, one other thing I might touch on and I think Dieselpig mentioned it, you gotta have thicker skin to hang out here!
You asked for an opinion and you got an OPINION! I take it you havent been to the Tav.
The biggest asset this place has to offer is the good advice and the desire to help others when they need it.
Stick around you'll see that nobody is trying to crucify you for what your trying to do or have done, but there are going to be 13 opinions for every problem, some of them are good, some not so good, but seldom are any meant to derail your attempt to accomplish your task.
Doug
There has been embarrasingly harshness here. Most of you guys have a wild hair tonight.
Where has anyone determined these are interior doors? Anyway, if they are, it would be a bad idea to put them up, but it wont cause any real problems in my opinion. Sure the doors may fall apart, but I think they will be OK for a while, if not a long time if theyre exterior doors.
Gee, I sent you what I thought was a nice note trying to help you, and I get this lecture in return?I ain't sellin' nothin'! I was born in this house and by cricky I intend to depart this world from the same room in the same house. I jes hope the new French doors last that long...
Sorry Job,I wasn't aware that you sent me a supportive suggestion. My apologies.
and I apologies again, I just read your stuff quickly and I did not put names to it, just as soon as I read that something will not be done in the absolute proper fashion esp after my whole year of tears agony and insurance issues, I couldn't help but be concerned about the long term issues with your decision. I got very quickly hot under the coller. Certainly you have the right to place whatever doors you want on the place especially if you keep the house. I just reacted assuming you may have a possibility of selling it soon and either way I could only think of the long term problems of even the unintentional poor decisions are made.
So please accept my apologies...nothing personal about you and your circumstances, just my fears about the future of unknowns and the consiquences of less than proper work put into homes.Sincerely, Love to floss
Well said.
Both times.View Image
I think you guys are being a little rough on this guy.
If I'm understanding him correctly he is thinking of installing the doors in a porch with out the need for them to secure nor weather-tight.
So if he can live with them being less secure then a typical entry door would be and is not concerned with them being truly weather-tight. I think he could certainly have them installed and last ~10 years with careful attention to the initial finishing as well as proper maintenance. All also depending on the climate and exposure.
If it were me, after carefully explaining this comes with no warrantee other then I will install them to the best of my ability, I'd fill any voids in the doors with bondo, seal at least the bottom foot with a thin coat of epoxy, if not the entire door, caulk all the divided lights, and prime/paint all sides with 2-3 finish coats of Benny Moore Moore Guard latex.
Would I call it ideal? hell no, but for a guy on a budget who has the doors, and needs "something" in the opening I'd do it, again with no warrantee though.
As for how long it would take would depend on how square the existing jamb was, I'd estimate a day to...fit the doors, take them down, prep and prime, maybe another 3 hours total for the final painting, and an hour to swing back buy, pop them in the hole and leave... so that's a day and half, to be safe I'd call it 2 full days to deal with Mr Murphy and his damn law.
Job,If you have half the patience of your namesake, you can do all the prepwork and painting on your doors and just hire a carpenter to hang them correctly. When he is done you may have some touch-up to do, but nothing major. The carpenter needs under a day if the situation is not too weird. You might want to have a few small projects ready to do if the guy needs a full day of work to show up for you.The two weather factors that destroy most doors are direct sunlight and direct water exposure. The bigger the overhang, the longer the service life between maintenance episodes.It is really vital to coat all 6 sides of every door with primer and paint to protect it from the elements, which you already know. Like someone else asked, "how thick are these doors you got?" Exterior doors today are usually 1-3/4", interior are 1-3/8".Bill
Neil, go back and read SHG's first post again. There's nothing harsh about it. It just says, "you're likely to have some problems" and gave a few general reasons why.
That's "rough"? Ok, I guess. Anyway you're 100% right that it 'can' be done and you've described an installation procedure that's pretty darn good. But you could probably use that same procedure on a piece of plywood and achieve similar results. Still doesn't mean it's a good idea.
How about if those doors go in and start leaking...... and end up causing boatloads of expensive structural damage to his house. I'd have to wonder if they would still look like such a good deal?
But whadda I know? :)View Image
You're right, neither of you were being to harsh I read more into the comments then I should have. I do have a real soft spot for older people with out a lot of money.
I'm going to address the point about the structure in a post to SHG.
I don't think the contrarian read any of my posts carefully, as he seems to misunderstand the whole issue. I am not a carp nor pretend to be. I will hire one to do it all, except paint. How can I expect 3 feet of water if there is proper escape for it? etc etc. You seem to be among the resaonable ones here. Thanks.
Job,
Just understand the limitations to what your doing and the fact that the door will fail eventually.
If I were you I'd look at trying to sell the doors for a profit and take the money towards a lesser quality exterior door. Home Depot had some sort of exterior slider for sale for around 300 bucks. I'm sure quality wise it is not very good at all, but maybe better then an interior door.
If you plan on spending much time "around here" you're going to have to grow your skin a bit thicker. Just because someone doesn't agree or co-sign an idea of yours doesn't make them 'unreasonable'. You asked for opinions.... and you got opinions. Next time just ask for the opinions of people who agree with you that way the rest of us won't waste our time and your time trying to help you out.
Good luck with your project.View Image
Neil, the guys an old pensioner who's trying to save a buck, not trying to hire a carp to take his $60 doors and make them work. Of course a decent carp can hang the doors, but the old timer wanted to know if this was a good idea.
The whole point is that he's got some reasonably skilled work to do that he's not likely up to (why do I think this? cause he asked the question in the first place. If he was a skilled carp, he would have known the answers). And when he's done installing the door, he's still likely to have a bunch of problems.
He may not care if its a secure exterior door, but he's sure gonna care when he's got 3 feet of water inside from the rain coming under the door cause it's got no weather stripping. If you want to help the guy out, don't presume he's skills and money to spend to compensate for his $60 bargain. This just isn't a good idea for this guy under these circumstances, and you're not doing him any favor encouraging something that's not likely to happen. I'm not being rough on the guy, I'm trying to save him from aggravation that he doesn't need.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
SHG, I read the post and subsequent post a little different then you.
He said in his first post "Any estimates on carp cost to hang and install doors and hardware?" so maybe you missed that when you said " he's not trying to hire a carp to take his $60 doors and make them work"
"but he's sure gonna care when he's got 3 feet of water inside from the rain coming under the door cause it's got no weather stripping" He also stated "Porch floors can take any wind and rain"
So what I'm envisioning as a back porch is a structure that was built with the original intent of being pretty much exposed to the weather in the first place and not something that was designed to be an interior room.
don't presume he's skills and money to spend to compensate for his $60 bargain
I didn't presume he had the skills, then again I did read the post completely and noticed he was asking how much it would cost. If he has the money is up to him and whom ever he decides to hire.
I'm not being rough on the guy, I'm trying to save him from aggravation that he doesn't need.
Like I told Brian, I read to much into your comments and no, you weren't being rough on him I just have a real soft spot for older people.
I do not think it's a great idea to do it, however if it made the situation better and it was all he could afford I'd be willing to at least explore the possibilities.
Either way, with out actually seeing what he has going on we're both making assumptions.
SHG: It seems you misread my post - I never implied I would install - I asked about a carp installing them.
"3 feet of water"? Hardly.This ain't Katrina country. Porch originally built as open to elements. Windows added in 1940's to make a sunroom.
To other more helpful guys: Thanks for info. The doors are 1-5/8. They would replace existing sad pair of Fr. doors, exact same size each 30x80".
CAGIV: you advise caulk each lite? I'da thought a careful paint seal between glass and wood would work? I paint good.
What's a good day's pay for a carp? $200.? Lotta building going on arount here.
Thanks again all.
you're gonna come here asking for help with your bargain basement problem and then you're gonna insult me because you want answers that agree with you? Nice. You'll find out what we're talking about with the 3 feet of water, but since your such a genius, figure it out on your own when your joists start to rot. Nobody here said they thought it was a good idea. Enjoy.
You're local rate will vary, to give you a ball park we bill our Carps out at $60 hr. Some people are 5-10 less a few are 5 more an hour. Most of the handy men type guys around here go for between 40-45/hr. I'm in kansas so your milage will vary
Currently wishin' I didn't get involved in this thread. I just think it sounds like a bad idea. I guess it's all right. I mean, plywood would last a couple years too so why not some interior doors? I'm just picturing water getting in, around, and behind the set and doing more harm than good. Maybe I'm over thinking it. I wasn't trying to pick on the guy.... just thought it sounded a little too hokey for my own stamp of approval.
Editted because I got my mords wixed.
View Image
Edited 9/22/2006 4:26 pm ET by dieselpig
I understand where you're coming from and mostly agree, but sometimes the "right" solution is limited by real world budgets and this MAY be a better alternative then what is already there.
Thing is, if the porch was orginaly designed to be exposed, then it shouldn't matter if water get's inside, in any event it will be less water then with no door.
Thing is, if the porch was orginaly designed to be exposed, then it shouldn't matter if water get's inside, in any event it will be less water then with no door.
That's very true. But all he has really said is that the porch is unconditioned space.... not that it is or was intended to be open to the elements. My folks have a gorgeous three season room that is as cold as a witch's teet in the winter. The finish on those beautiful fir floors would be toast in no time with a leaky door at one end of it. And from there the moisture/rot would creep on up into the post and beam framing.......
So I guess I was picturing and unconditioned porch space while you seem to be picturing a structure that is open to the elements. Maybe that's where we differ, no?View Image
yep, that's what I said to SHG, with out seeing it we're all making assumptions...
He said " Porch originally built as open to elements. Windows added in 1940's to make a sunroom. "
so I'm picturing something that was supposed to be open to weather when built and now converted...
Gotcha. I missed that part and I stand corrected.
View Image
Brian
I read the part about the inclosed porch and I was one of the guys that suggested that he can pull this off.
I dont see a problem with it and I also think SHG was way out of his elements with his advice. After all the guys not asking for legal advice!
I still stand by what I said in my post earlier, you've got a inclosed porch and the doors are "thick" according to the OP so theres a very good chance that this can be done and 2 feet of standing water will not accure, dont know where SHG got that but I guess that could happen, in which case most wood exterior doors would probably suffer the same fate as these doors.
Doug
yeah, maybe we should give the guy some legal advice so SHG can really "let us have it" *G*
:)
'Morning Doug. Just to be clear.... I said I agreed with SHG's first post where he just basically said that he thought the doors might give him a few problems and gave some very general reasons why. He said it very nicely and simply offered his opinion. I happen to agree that, overall, it's not a good idea and that the doors could likely lead to more problems than they are worth.
And I also agreed with his second post. The one where he basically said "don't ask for opinions if you only want ones that jive with your own". I'm paraphrasing here... forgive me, I just don't feel like playing the cut and paste game this morning. Anyway, that was more of a statement about a general theme I often see here at BT that bothers me. One where someone comes into the forum with a scheme they've cooked up and then gets all aggravated when they don't get the responses they were hoping for.
And that's really all I agreed with SHG on regarding the doors and the rest of the thread. I don't expect that the OP will end up 2' of standing water because of these doors. Never signed on to that one Doug. :) And I agree that not much of anything in a home, with the exception of the foundation, will last very long at all in standing water. I didn't align myself with that comment. Agreeing with a post or two someone makes does not mean that I have signed on to agreeing with everything that poster says for Breaktime eternity.
Anyway... I'm really not looking for a fight this morning. Personally, I don't think installing interior doors on the exterior of a home is a good idea. It's just my opinion. And you and others have offered your own opinions. Perhaps your opinion is "righter" than mine. I dunno. But it's still my opinion..... and that's what the forum is supposed to be all about, right?View Image
"One where someone comes into the forum with a scheme they've cooked up and then gets all aggravated when they don't get the responses they were hoping for."Just who became aggravated in this thread? Not I.
Brian
My post probably wasn't directed at you per se, yours just happened to be the post I read last.
I agree that the situation with the interior doors may not be ideal for exterior use but there did seam to be some reasons that he could pull this off.
I didn't see SHG's advice as misdirected but knowing that he's not in the trades makes me think twice about using it, or at least question it. That's part of the benefit of being on here for a while, you sorta feel out who to listen to and who not to. And that's not to say that SHG doesn't have anything to offer on this subject, or any other for that matter, not my intent at all. Just that I saw the situation a little different then he did.
After reading that its his own house and he plans on staying there until the end and is on a limited budget (who the hell isnt!!!) then I'm even more in favor of him going ahead with his plans.
Doug
I didn't see SHG's advice as misdirected but knowing that he's not in the trades makes me think twice about using it, or at least question it.
Doug, you're a little too new around here to know why I'm here and have been here a long time. I've restore manor houses on LI, and I've learned a few things along the way. I know very well the kind of damage that people have done to these houses, and what happens when you use the wrong materials, etc., because I spend a lot of time mopping up the mess. I may be a lawyer, but don't assume because I'm not a carp that I don't know what I'm talking about.
By the way, here's a secret. In the old houses, they often didn't have interlocking weatherstripping on the bottoms of exterior doors. When the rain hits the doors, it runs down the face and follows underneath. And then spreads out on the interior floor. A small rain gives you a small puddle. A big rain can give you a few feet of water on the interior floor. They typically used an ogee molding on the bottom of the door to try to direct the water away from the base so it didn't go into the house.
So, if our old timer puts these doors on the outside, with no interlock on the bottom, the rain will come in. And any carp who's never seen an old door without modern engineering wouldn't realize this. But if he tries it, he'll find out. Not too shabby for a lawyer, eh? I don't get involved in these issues unless I have something to offer. Now he can do whatever he wants, as can you and anybody else, but please know that I wasn't writing because I had nothing better to do with my time.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
SHG
Doug, you're a little too new around here to know why I'm here and have been here a long time.
Hope you do a little more homework in your real job! BTW, For some time I didnt make the switch when the big prospero change happened so I have a little more time then my profile shows, seams to be a point worth mentioning.
The man said that he was installing these doors into an inclosed porch. Where will all the water come from that your so concerned about.
Obviously after he gave a few more details of what he was doing it made it a little easier to come to my conclusion. I'm not suggesting that you dont have the right/knowledge to make educated opinions on such matters but dont assume that your somehow all knowing/all doing in these matters.
I've restored a few old houses in my day as well and a lot of them had the original wood door that they started life with back in the mid to late 1800's and the doors were still in very good shape. I know a little about weatherizing a door too.
BTW, I belive that I've been doing this stuff a bit longer then you, seeings how I'm a bit older, but thanks for the "little to new" coment, I dont get that to often anymore.
I'm sure you know a lot of trade secrets that I've never heard of, hell your you, why wouldnt you know more then me. This is the second time that you've gave me your condesending BS regarding your vast knowledge, I'm starting to think the saying about you NY'ers is right.
I've never suggested that you dont have the right to your opinions, hell I know people on here who havent done a fraction of what they say they have and I'd never tell them that they dont have the right to post an opinion. I assume you have some knowledge of the trades based on your experiences that I've read about, even though I'm new and all, I've still seen a few of them!
I read the mans post different than you and offered up a different opinion, both are just that, opinions, nothing more, seeings how neither one of us has see the place in question.
Doug
Edited 9/23/2006 9:58 pm ET by DougU
Now you're just beginning to sound a little to screwy to bother with. You can be the smartest person in the world about whatever you want. Doesn't make any difference to me. Happy?
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
Now you're just beginning to sound a little to screwy to bother with.
I'd expect more from you then just dismissing me as "screwy to bother with", but whatever makes you feel good.
No coment on the other stuff huh?
Doug
When I first started my last post, I was going to address your condescending comment. But then I decided against it. There are a few people here who ask me for my legal advice from time to time, and have appreciated what I could give them. There are a few who've taken my restoration advice and also appreciated what I could give them. And I've asked for advice from many people here and have appreciated what they've given me. You just seem to have a chip on your shoulder, and frankly that's not my problem.
As for the stuff about the doors, I've said all I have to say, and it's my opinion based on my experience. You can disagree, the OP can disagree, no problem. I don't have a horse in this race either way, and the OP will do whatever he wants to do. I just don't appreciate people popping in here and then giving attitude to people who answer their questions. In the old days, guys like Fusco would have reamed their butts. But I'm much nicer. Since you're older then me, I'm sure you already know that.
So that's all I've got to say on the subject. You wanna make fun of me cause I'm a lawyer? Knock yourself out.
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
SHG
You wanna make fun of me cause I'm a lawyer? Knock yourself out.
I dont believe that I have ever made fun of you for being a lawyer,(not saying that I wont or havent made stupid little "lawyer" coments before, cause I know I have, either to you or BW) I dont make fun of the McD's guy for flipping burgers either. We all have jobs/ocupations that we do, as long as we do them with integrity then I have no problem with what you or anybody else does.
We read the OP's situation different, I guess I'll have to leave it at that. Your intitled to your opinion and yours is equally as valuble/worthless as mine. I thought you might have missed a point the OP'er was making and said so, thats it. If you took offence then I apologize.
I stand behind my remark about the "condesending comment" but thats my deal so I'll deal with it. You cant dissmiss it as a "chip on your shoulder" thing though, that dont make you right and me wrong no matter how many times you look in the mirror and repeat it.
Doug
If Piffin says you know your stuff, that's good enough for me. I apologize too. I did like your comment that our opinions are "equally valuable/worthless."
SHGFor every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
i don't know whether I oughta be stepping in her eor not...but I think you two oughta kiss and make up. It's just a ouple of diverse opinions. Doug has been around quite a while too, and I've seen enoough of his work to know that there might only bre two or three people in this whole forum who could come close to it. Both of you know your stuff.If I were putting doors on your house, they would absolutely be the right ones, the right prep and the right paint for your house, but my advise to this old guy is in the context of what he has and what he needs.I gota say, technically what you first wrote is right, but something about the way it read came across harsh, to me at least. I had me thinking, "Wow, old Scott must be in as bad a mood tonight as I was 2-3 nights ago..." Just didn't sound like you are you right now.I just think everybody here has over-reacted to each others opinons.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
If you says so, I believe you. I didn't see me as going after Doug, but the other way around. But if that's not how it came off, then either I saw it wrong or I was too harsh. Either way, no reason to do it. I do get a bit sensitive when people assume that because I'm a lawyer I know nothing about restoration, like every 5 years or so I have to explain what I'm doing here to people who came in the meantime.
You know how it is.
S
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
THE EVILS OF INTERNET!Get only some of the technical details about the door.
Have no pictures to view.
Read only a portion of the response or
Read when your tired and miss a word.
Have ones own personal experience filling in the parts that we are not certain of.
Bring along our own issues in life.
Our grammatical error too!
Have no 'body' language to help understand what the other is REALLY saying. How the heck can human kind not go Wacky on a site like this.
We have to remember that this is a very limited way of communication.
Soooo easy to misinterpret and then a hell of alot of effort taken to rectify the misunderstandings.But....Was it fun?! Interacting!
It must be, cause we sure keep coming back for more. :)I hope all works out fine for you 'Job'
I think really WE ARE ALL BEHIND YOUR EFFORTS, rather than you sitting around and mopeing about life!GO FOR IT and KUDOS to you for your enthusiasm about your great deal.
I just hope for your sake you don't have to deal with issues later after all that hard work put in.Love to Floss
BTW- Isn't that why haveing beers with the boys or wine at social event helps. We are not as particular and concerned about exactly what the person thinks or says. We just let it roll off like water off a ducks back. HMMM?
Edited 9/24/2006 9:57 am ET by lv2floss
This is the weirdest thread I've read in a long time. Would the real luv2floss please stand up. I think I'll reboot my computer now and have a glass of brandy. Carry on.
can you make that 2?
how good is the brandy?
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TG, try a searchfor "Luv2Floss" to find her thread and her truly tough bsment prob. Bet she can use a brandy too.,
I'll get in here too with a couple of case histories.
Case 1: Pappy installed an interior French door we got free on the unheated porch in grandma's house circa 1956. Sanded and put 2 coats of spar varnish on it as I recall, over an existing varnish. (remember having to sand it myself, long job for a kid).
That door is still there, no peeling or anything, but really good overhang, and immediate step down.
Case 2: Put a surplus hollow core interior door on the cabin in 1980 (as a temporary door). Never did replace it, Still ONLY has the oil primer on it, never even got around to painting it. 2 ft overhang 16 feet above, located in Rain forest near mt. St. Helens.
Had to put a kick plate on it this year as the bottom showed some intial signs of delamination.
Oil paint your doors, they will likely outlast you.
That's encouraging! Possible kicker: The existing "prime" coat may be interior latex. And if so?? Guess I better rough it up well w/ sandpaper...What happens if I put oil over that? This is turning into quite a tale...
I've put oil over well sanded latex a number of times for exterior applications with no problem. You need to make sure there is absolutely no loose or non-feathered edge latex. Oil prime with thin oil whereever the latex has sanded thru.
My dad repainted a number of houses over the years - his paint jobs were always 2 coats of latex over oil, the oil went over all the previous well scraped coats - that is after about 1960, when he quit using white lead oil exclusively.
After pop died a couple years ago, brother had a 'pro' paint mom's house as the 'pro' owed my brother about $3k. Pop probably spun in his grave at the crap job done (I only puked). Probably have to redo it myself in a couple more years (1600 miles away).
Anyway, you sound like you enjoy and are experienced at painting, so GO FOR IT. You can always repaint if you see blisters or peeling start when you are 95 <G>.
Thanks, Junkhound, I just pray you are a prophet! And I'm an Everready bunny... keep goin and goin'.
he's the patron saint of the DIY cultand deservingly
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thanks, best compliment in decades from both of you....<G>
.... replied to Job as your oil paint comment was one of the first positive responses I saw in this thread, he really is long suffering to last as long as he has till he got more reinforcement.
..also just posted a 'humor' DIY comment on Justin's electrical thread, thought maybe I should not have posted given the seriousness of JF's conundrum, but need to keep up appearances????
Job: BTW, DIY is merely an excuse to buy every little (or big) tool you can conceivably ever use (at 90% off of course). Never too old to buy another tool. My dad was out to visit 2 months before he died at 83 of known terminal cancer, he spent 3 hours on his feet in the Boeing Surplus store then, the longest he had been on his feet for 4 months. He bought 36 pairs of leather gloves he thought were a great deal and some other stuff to take home to give away before he died.
Need to buy a section of land as an excuse to buy that 20 yo D10 I saw for 70K.
Brandy?! Is someone offering a Brandy?maybe we should just all get together and share stories Live.
We will make it an annual homebuilding support group meeting.
A BBQ along with that would be just fine. :)
look to the left column - breaktime festsAt least once a year
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Can you imagine!
Bigger than The International Rib Fests and less fattening.
" I do get a bit sensitive when people assume that because I'm a lawyer I know nothing about restoration,"yeah, that's where he went over the linebut lets all save the energy for the next time when we really need it. someday the two of you might have to gaang up on me.:)
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Hey kid, you are starting to grow up, sound professional, and grow furr on your chin
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yeah, maybe everynow and then... I still have my moments.
<If it were me, after carefully explaining this comes with no warrantee other then I will install them to the best of my ability, I'd fill any voids in the doors with bondo, seal at least the bottom foot with a thin coat of epoxy, if not the entire door, caulk all the divided lights, and prime/paint all sides with 2-3 finish coats of Benny Moore Moore Guard latex.>CAGIV: Prepping the doors will be a winter project. Can you clarify type of epoxy to preserve edges? Also, why caulk the lites? wouldn't careful paint seal betw glass and wood lites work to help preserve? Maybe there's a product, like a putty-like caulk that would serve to seal betw glass and wood?Tks. Job
Edited 9/25/2006 3:41 pm ET by Job
Job, I would think a little caulk wouldn't hurt around the window's and will be more flexible then paint will be.
As for the epoxy, I don't know the name of the stuff we use, our local paint store sells a 2 part product that we brush on the bottom of the painted wood exterior doors. I believe it's made by woodepox but I"m not in the shop so I can't look at it.
I believe something like west systems would also work if you could put a thin enough coat on.
If I were you I'd have a local carp/remodeling company at least take a look at it for you. It sounds like you may be better off going in that direction if you haven't tried to install doors into an existing opening before... It's a little tricky at times. Try to find someone that a neighbor or friend has used and can recommend.
<If I were you I'd have a local carp/remodeling company at least take a look at it for you. It sounds like you may be better off going in that direction if you haven't tried to install doors into an existing opening before... It's a little tricky at times. >
Yeah, I agree I'd need help anyway just handling the doors.. My handy SIL took a look and agreed to lead/do the install, I'll help and kibitz and learn (I;m not too old for that).
I would not use the caulk like CAG, but I can thiink why he includes iot. He recommends a latex paint which is not waterproof. Latex will breathe and let moisture pass through. I use an oil only on doors, and seal the glass with the brush overlap like you.
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I use an oil only on doors, and seal the glass with the brush overlap like you
Piffin, are you saying that you're against using an exterior acrylic latex (like ben Moore )on the whole ext door in favor of an OIL paint? Or you saying use an oil paint only on the edges?
I'm 99.9% certain he means an oil on the entire door and he is correct that it will provide a better/more durable finish then latex
We don't use latex at all on exterior doors
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We don't use latex at all on exterior doors
Ooops. I think I'm a double sinner in your book then. Don't you despise Therma-Tru doors as well?
Anyway, I installed a fiberglass Therma-Tru door as a front door in my own house. Painted with 100% acrylic latex. It's sits under an 8' deep porch with roof over. Think I'm ok? If not, what's the solution?View Image
You'll have to tear the house down and rebuild it ;-)
I knew it. That's what I get for going with the low-bidder. (Me) :)View Image
Ooops. I think I'm a double sinner in your book then. Don't you despise Therma-Tru doors as well?Get thee behind me, satan!LOLIf not, what's the solution?Ever hear of Flagelation?You got a storM on it? If so, you're probably OK
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Make that a triple sinner. No storm.
And isn't Flagelation what happens when I eat too much chili?
(Hey.... whaddya want from a framer?)View Image
well,
storms make it harder on the pizza delivery guys
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They likely wouldn't have used exterior glue.
Job,
You say that the doors are "thick". To my way of thinking, that would be 1 3/4". If that's the case, then the doors were probably glued up with Type I glue rated for exterior use. Also, the panes of glass are probably already caulked and sealed.
The trick is getting them hung properly. It's never easy to hang a pair of doors--especially if you are somewhat of a layman. If you have a router and a hinge template, skilsaw, straigtedge, framing square, drills, and confidence, then you should give it a try. If they last 5 years or more, then your investment is virtually nil.
By the way, you will need a t-astragal if you don't already have one.
If you have to buy one, make sure it's pre-machined for flushbolts, or figure on using surface mounted bolts on the inactive leaf.
"Kinky for Gov. of Texas"
Please. How many times do HOs show up here demanding validation of their stupidity as if we owe them not only answers, but the answers they want. If you want to put up with it, fine. As for me, he can figure it out for himself. He's gonna screw this all up anyway, so what's the difference.
SHG
For every complex problem, there is a solution that is clear, simple, and wrong.
-H.L. Mencken
Nice.