*
The wife and I have been house shopping for some time now and have come across a 5 bedroom brick house that we are very interested in getting. My question is what or how much difference is there in brick vs wood when it comes to heating and cooling costs. I know the maintenance of brick is considerably less over the long haul and the value of brick homes is better from the property value point.
Are there any other points you folks can think of?
The hosue needs a good bit of cosmetic work. Built in the ’50’s and hasn’t been remodeled since about 1950 1/2 if you ask me. Old carpet, wallpaper, paint, flooring etc… Just perfect for a guy like me! I should have things in tip top shape in about 40 years. you other contractors should know what I mean by that.
By the way, the lot size is 100 wide by 318 deep!
Thanks for the help in advance,
Pete Draganic
Replies
*
Hey Pete. Nice to see you. - jb
*PeteJust a couple of quick thoughts...If this house was built in the 50's & has not had a major rehab since then, the insulation is more than likely non-existent. They also didn't have house wrap back then. Recommend that you go in the attic & check the insulation there. Also find an outside wall outlet/switch box. Remove the cover plate & see if you around the outlet box. Is there any insulation, if there is, what kind, etc. Also check the neighborhood and find someone who has lived there a long time. Ask what the utility bills are running.Along with heating & cooling, another thing to consider is electrical service...what size is the power service? Are the outlets grounded? if they are, make sure that someone just didn't change out a 2 prong outlet into a 3 prong outlet without hooking up the ground. Remove the fuse/breaker box cover and check the wiring. Are some circuits doubled up, etc.Your best bet would be to spend some money and get a home inspector to do a top to bottom inspection. This way, you will know what you are getting into. If there are alot of problems/upgrades required, you don't want to pay full market value if it going to cost a bundle to bring it up todays standards.Vince
*Pete,I have lived in a couple of old brick homes and have found them to be snug; driving wind has a harder time getting through the walls than clap-board sided homes. HOWEVER, these were 100-yr old homes: plaster on brick, no hollow exterior walls. Once the leaky windows have been dealt with you no longer feel the air in the house move around during strong storms. I imagine that this home has a brick veneer over frame? You still may have to counter infiltration through these framed exterior walls (cellar to attic) even though strong winds will be thwarted.My current home is combination of 100+ yr old brick and 50 yr old frame. The frame section was constructed in the 40's and is insulated with very crude, heavy, itchy fiberglass, this stuff has glass chunks in it. It is awful to deal with and seems to have marginal R value. I replace it when and where I can. If this home has no insulation you are in luck; you could blow in something worth while.If the home has great asthetic appeal, is in a good location and can be had at bargain price, could it be worth an extensive rehab? I would go with brick in a flash.
*The house is solid overall but it still has fuses and ungrounded outlets and a furnace the size of my truck. These are all things that I will take care of myself. It is in a great area (Seven Hills, Ohio) and we will be negotiating price in the next few days. One other semi major problem is water in the basement. I see evidence of it but can't tell to what extent during any one rainstorm. It also has a half finsihed basement with a wet bar. the area of this is 12 x 29. The overall home is 2045 sf. It has a lot of potential but is very outdated and in very poor asthetic shape. As for insulation, I have no clue as of yet.Pete DraganicP.S. Hi JB :)
*Pete,It is nice to see you posting again. I think there is only one disadvantage to brick. If you want to add on, it is usually impossible to match the brick. I see a lot of ugly additions that are sided when the house was brick. The room I sit in as I type is an addition, and they didn't have enough of the original brick and couldn't match it, so they mixed in brick that came close. It's noti toobad, but you can tell if you look.Rich Beckman
*You know what they say about location location location. If you like the location and the house needs work, that's ok. Once it's yours, you can't alter the location but you can fix up the house.I suppose one possible drawback of brick is that you are pretty well stuck with the doors and windows where they are and whatever sizes they are. We're remodeling a frame house, so we've been able to open it up to more light with more and bigger windows.As for the damp basement, it would help if you have local knowledge about soils, drainage and water tables. If you're lucky, maybe the only problem is with the gutters and leaders, or the grading around the foundation. Also, maybe a sump pump and a dehumidifier for the summer would be all you need. Then again, some damp basements can be intractable, and there's only so much you can do from the inside.Jay
*One little pointer I've learned the hard way -- don't undervalue your own labor! There are few old, tired houses selling at enough of a discount to account for all the work they need. It sounds here like you've found a house that's special to you in some way, and this may be worth the difference. Fixing old problems, and problems left by former homeowners, gets old quick when what you really want to be doing is updating the look and livability of the house. Materials cost add up surprisingly fast, esp. since you won't be willing to let cr*p in your own house!One thing that made me glad we didn't get the first runner-up house in our search, a brick house, is that it's sure a lot easier to cut a hole in the wall for an exhaust or new window with wood! Is the brick and the mortar in good shape, too? The advice to get a GOOD home inspector familiar with local construction is excellent, ours alerted us to a lot. Someone I know here said brick adds 5% to the value of a house right off. And there's that big bad wolf protection.100' by 318' lot? Gigantic! Ours is something like 55' x 70'.
*I am with you on this andrew.Since pete is from Cleveland I assume he is basically a city boy like you and I.I doubt some of the rural yokels who occasionaly post here can fully appreciate100'x318'.I suspect he really wants the yard and is only trying to justify the house!By the way Pete,I was up in Cleveland yesterday at the Art Museum and I know the weather you had yesterday.Today looks like a good day to look for water in that basement,It couldn't get any worse could it?hope it all works out well for you,Stephen.
*Pete --Go for the big brick house in the great neighborhood. I did the same thing last year and I don't regret it for a second. My house is a 1910 Tudor Revival, originally sided with clapboard. In the 30s, the second owner of the house decided to brick the house. He used paving brick that had been pulled up from a city street. The brick was already worn-looking, so it makes the house look older than it really is. And my walls are something like 9 inches thick (very quiet and solid).As far as heating and cooling goes, the one thing I have noticed about my brick house is that it stays generally cooler than other houses I've lived in. The previous owner had done no weatherization for many years, so the heating bills were rough until I sealed up aggressively. But in the summer, it was very comfortable and efficient. We were probably the last place in my neighborhood to turn on the AC, and our highest electric bill (July 7-August 7, when we used AC constantly) was $127. The house is 2,875 finished square feet, so I didn't think that was too bad.Go for the brick.John Easley, Newton, Iowab "No matter how great and destructive your problems may seem now, remember, you've probably only seen the tip of them"
*"I doubt some of the rural yokels who occasionaly post here can fully appreciate100'x318'" Not really, I can 'appreciate' it. Just can't get too excited about it when my 'lot' is 1320' by 1320'. "Rural yokel"? I guess I prefer the term 'hick', I can spell 'hick'. lol.Even with all the drawbacks, I wish my home was brick. Of course, if I had a brick porch and it fell, it would kill a lot of hound dogs!
*Ken,which word did you object to?Rural,or,Yokel?Take note that I also refered to myself as a city boy,which I believe is a deprecatory term when used in certain circles. (mostly by yokels,hicks and hillbillies.but enough about my relatives)Also if your "lot' is 1320'x1320' I doubt that you really do appreciate what we are talking about in reference to 100'x318'I guess it is a matter of perspective( and location ,since Pete is talking about such a nice one here)anyhow,I hope it all works out for Pete
*Almost ran into a serious problem pulling our shed dormer permit. Zoning asked me, "how many square feet is your house now?" So I'm thinking, am I supposed to inflate or underestimate? I picked a little low ... turns out that lots < 6000 sf -- we have 5500 -- can't undertake projects involving more than 50% of the house's existing sf. For some reason, the ROOF is counted in the sf, too, doubling the apparent size of the job.I assured him our basement was spacious....Compared to place I've lived before this is rural. One place, I could almost reach out the window and touch the next building. Here, we only have a sidewalk on ONE side of the street! And you can park your car, like, anywhere. Amazing.Pete, all things being equal, I have a real attachment to brick. It was one of the major reason I moved to Boston for a time, lots of nice red brick, including the bumpy sidewalks. But, uh, you might want to first add up the "must fix" list, then pad that cost 100% for the stuff you haven't found yet!
*"...which word did you object to?Rural,or,Yokel?"Stephen, no objection really. Just thought it was humorous that you referred to people like me, who think that a good location is one that has owls hooting across hollers at night, as rural yokels. I think I put a lol in there, maybe I should have added a :-). No objection taken. Have lived on small lots also (including a no lot apt in Houston, 530 sq ft with a piano and a wife, tested my humor.) No offense meant, but I still think what you said is funny. Would you think it was funnier if I mentioned that my next door (1/4 mile) neighbor is a convicted felon?
*Convicted felon -- isn't that an ex-felon? How has he been ... lately?In Chicago you could regularly here the sound of gunfire -- distant in my neighborhood -- and a cop was killed a few blocks away when he tried to stop a purse-snatching of all things. A little too "urban" perhaps.Gotcha beat Ken -- my wife and I lived one summer in a 1-bedroom 300 sf apartment with a psychotic cat ... then moved to a spacious 700 sf apt. Then that baby showed up, wanted his own space for HIS things... These are all mansions by Manhattan standards.
*The quality of brick construction can be attested to by the 3 pigs.
*Andrew, I think you're right, "ex-felon." How's he been? Very quiet, I think Leavenworth will do that to a man. 5 years for growing marijuana seems pretty harsh to me, but then he was dumb enough to grow it in a National Forest!300 sq ft? Wow, that beats the 320 sq ft trailer I once bach-ed in. Location is in the eye of the beholder. My mother-in-law has visited our current rural abode once (15 years ago.) That alone makes this is an ideal location, and my wife agrees!
*Ken,I am aware that not all people with rural residences are Yokels.I see most things as a matter of perspective.In fact don't most New Yorkers consider anyone who doesn't live in NYC to be a Yokel? It's all in how you look at it.When I drive in different parts of the country I am often amused by the rural habit shared by so many ,of using the yard as a automotive recycler.You know what I mean,the guys who have the rusted out remnants of every car or tractor the farm has ever made payments on sitting right next to the house.Some of these things haven't run in decades, but there they sit.I think when these people move into town they are the ones I see who park in their cars in the front yard instead of the driveway and keep refrigerators on the front porch next to worn out sofa's and arm chairs.Different strokes for different folks I guess.Looking for the humor all around me,Stephen
*Also a rural yokel, but not a hick, up here we are "hayseeds"...Probably the tightest long term abode I have seen was inhabited by my best friend, his wife, and two almost teenage kids, when I was consulting in Barrow, AK, in the mid 70's. It was a superinsulated single room of, I believe, 8 ft by something less than 20 ft. No running water, no bathroom, the "toilet" was a bucket with a plastic sack inside. It had a single stove for cooking and heating and a single light bulb in the middle of the room for light. Housing was extremely tight in Barrow then (the oil boom on the North Slope had created a bit of a population boom up there) and they felt lucky to get that (all material had to be shipped in by boat during the few weeks each year that the ice melted enough to let the ship in.) They slept in a bunk bed, the folks on the bottom and the kids in the top bunk. The kids kept saying they wish their folks would stop having so much sex as it made for a rather wild ride in that top bunk (privacy, what privacy)... I think they stayed there for a couple of years.The sewage system in Barrow in those days was to set the can outside and let the contents freeze solid. You then lifted out the plastic sack and contents and set it on the curb and a city worker came along and tossed it into a truck.
*Stephen, Good to hear from you. So you came all the way up to Cleveland for the Art Museum? I hope you went a few streets over into "Little Italy" and enjoyed some of the flavors. Aren't you in Canton? We'll have to meet some day. Maybe at "Cracker Barrel" (I love that place!!).Thanks to everyone else for the input and "ejacashun bout hillfolk"! The lot at the new place is nice. I now have 40' x 150' which is not that bad for the city. IT'S FOR SALE!! along with the two-family I own across the street. We are still waiting for the owners to decide if they like our offer. They haven't refused yet and have been checking this and that I hear. Wish me luck...it'll be a great place for the BREAKTIME GET TOGETHER!!!Pete Draganic
*I beleive Ken lives on a "forty" if his lot is 1320x1320....Mine is just a little over that.....now Im wondering if Ken lives on the back forty or front forty....
*Just read an intersting article in the San Francisco Chronicle on the battle over oversized houses on small lots, on-line at:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/11/08/MN68431.DTLStated that Palo Alto, CA changed their zoning so that a house could only occupy 25% of the lot. Thus if Pete were in Palo Alto, he could only remodel the house out to something like 50' x 159'...
*Pete,I am from Akron,but I go up to the Art Museum quite a bit,especially in the winter when We have tons of free time.I believe it is supposed to be one of the top 3-4 art museums in the country and even world wide it has a pretty high ranking.All of that considered,it is a real gift to be able to take advantage of it pretty regularly.The place I love even more than the museum though,is the west side market.I don't know if the natives consider it cornball or what but I love that place.Thats the way food should be sold everywhere,and you just gotta love the complete abscence of cash registers.They just put the money straight in their pocket.Of course its conveniently located next to that brewery....I think its Great Lakes Brewery.You know,there are quite a few of us within about 30-40 miles. Maybe we could have our own local Breaktime,Beer,&Bitchin'.Good Luck with the offer,Stephen
*Let's see, I have my survey right here ... our lot (half of a subdivided lot) is 80' by 70'. 5600 sf ... so we could have 1400 sf for a house ... our cape makes it easily at 25'x36', though G*d knows no one in Palo Alto could scrape by with such a small footprint.You know, I -like- being able to get from one side of the house to the other without a golf cart. I can call to any member of the family while sitting down (no intercom, we have a holler-com), and if i don't want to hear them I can close the door.
*The Ohio Mafia is born... The most uniformily nice-people state I've ever visited.
*Stephen,The Westside Market is ABSOLUTELY FANTASTIC and is well known and revered by the locals. I love shopping there, especially in the summer. If the produce is any cheaper, it would be free. The wife and I buy our beef by the quarter steer from one of the butchers there. Only 1.60 per pound that way and you get all the filets and steaks.Pete Draganic
*Pete, is that lot deep enough for the Dwarf Toss?
*Brian, congrats, it is indeed 40 acres. Or, a quarter of a quarter. It is the corner 40. The NW quarter of the NW quarter of some section (I forget which.) 100 X 318, almost 3/4 of an acre. It sounds real nice.
*Just read an intersting article in the San Francisco Chronicle on the battle over oversized houses on small lots, on-line at:http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/11/08/MN68431.DTLStated that Palo Alto, CA changed their zoning so that a house could only occupy 25% of the lot. Thus if Pete were in Palo Alto, he could only remodel the house out to something like 50' x 159'...