Hey all,
We just found out that we were the winning bid on a house!! I swear I don’t know whether to do a jig or throw up!! Here’s a snapshot of bay area real estate for you. There were 15 bids on the place and then 5 in the second round and our bid was the winner. We had to go waaaay over the asking price but we still got the place for way under its market value.
The house is located in Alameda CA. Its a Markus and Remmel Eastlake Victorian built in 1905. Its three stories with a reasonable lot (for this area). Its going to be pretty nice once its fixed up. The outter envelope of the building is in really good shape. We were told the house was a show-place like 30 years ago. The paint is not failing exactly-it is starting to chalk up a bit but I can tell it was a quality job when it was done. All the exterior windows are in really good shape and they all work. The roof was replaced ~10years ago it doesnt look like that great of a job but its been raining pretty hard here and I can not see any evidence of recent leaking. The foundation is a capped brick foundation.
Here’s the problem and where I need some advice. The place was owned for 60 years by the same man. Towards the end he went screwy and and became a packrat and he never cleaned the place! Well it probably hasn’t been cleaned in like 10years. There is junk piled every where. There is a layer of filth on everything. The three bathrooms are particularly scary. There is dead rats and spoiling food, the place smells amazingly horrible. He didn’t own any pets but I am sure there is/was a large rat infestation in the place. The rats were unfortunately de-conned and have probably crawled back up into the walls to die hence the smell.
I plan on renting the biggest dumpster I can afford and hiring a small army of day-laborers to haul all the crap out. I would love reccomendations on how to de-stank the place and how to clean the grime. The place also needs a good washing on the outside…
Here’s a pic of the outside of the place.
Here’s a link to a lot of pics of the inside of the place. You will need a fast connection for this.
http://madmadscientist.com/galleries/Alameda1310/
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/2/2007 6:47 pm by madmadscientist
Replies
" I swear I don't know whether to do a jig or throw up"
I don't know whether to congratulate you, or tell you you're an idiot.
(-:
If there's anything inside that might be of some slight value to someone, you could always set it out by the curb with a "free" sign on it. you would't believe what people will haul off for nothing.
BTW - Why put this in the tavern? It's certainly about homebuilding....
Hey Boss,
Actually there is a lot of stuff inside thats worth money. There is an FDR style wheelchair thats worth from $1000-$2500 on eBay. A room full of super cool looking antique radios-from the big console kinds to the bakelite table top models. Tons of antique tools, a lot of silver teapots-maybe some hats for Luka.... There is a big antique fair here in Alameda and I have a friend who is pretty knoweldgeable about antiques so I'm hoping we can at least cover the initial clean-out, scrub down and maybe the demo with the money we make off of selling them. Course I love that wheel chair and think it would be great around Halloween....
View Image
I stuck it in the Tavern cause I thougth that maybe it was to chatty but it got moved to general discussion so guess I was wrong.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/2/2007 6:58 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 3/2/2007 6:59 pm by madmadscientist
with a lot of contents it is hard to know what it is really worth without an expert assesssment.Not that any expert is going to want to paw through that archeological dig!;)Often, when a new owner has me renovate a house, they just tell me to haul to the dump whatever contents are in my way. From one house, we got a special potery piece that is part of a collection the DW has. She just looked at one on E-bay yesterday that was up to $75 for same thing. We had thought it only had minor value as part of her collection and for her own pleasure.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Beautiful house and you were lucky it was a mess. That's what keeps the prices down. Scares a lot of people. Nice access too for a dumpster. Just park it along side the house and toss everything right out the window into it. Scrub down all the walls with buckets of warm water and TSP. Keep all the windows open with fans...Painting alone will get rid of a lot of the smell. Dead animal smell theres nothing you can do about other than mask the smell with droplets of odor remover which you can buy from an exterminator or use potpourri and incense...lol.
Looks to be mostly cosmetic and clean up work and thats fun : )
Mazel Tov/Namaste
andy...
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign there
And that sign said - no tress passin'
But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!
Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I am also hoping that it is mostly cosemetic and that after a good scrubdown inside and out its going to look pretty great.
The smell of the place was just repulsive...my wife had a completely stuffed up nose so she had no problem and was the one that took all the pics. I was thinking the same thing, the more disgusting the thing was and the dirtier it was the less competition. We still had a ton of comp. though-they way underpriced it....
Thanks,Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Mad- give us a bigger pic of it.
Life size would be good. We can scale it down for the dialups after.
every court needs a jester
Sorry I don't have a good front shot of it here with me I'll post a bigger one later today.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
That's a beauty - congratualtions!
This is everything I know about cleaning - deodorizing... After you get the place cleared out, wash the walls with TSP, & prime with shellac-based primer.
I'm guessing hardwood floors - get them sanded & refinished, & you will be amazed at the difference. If wildlife has died in the walls, it's usually dry & alkaline enough so odor is not a problem - at least, that was the case with my mummified oppossum.
If there are issues with animal urine, flood the affected area with Nature's Miracle, from a pet supply store. You may need repeated applications, but it works.
Also, for musty closets, attics, etc., spread ground coffee in the area & let it sit - it will absorb the badness. (Get the cheapest ground coffee you can find - not instant, not used coffee grounds, but the raw material.
These processes worked on all my old houses. The hardest thing for me to get rid of was the spilled fuel oil in the basement, where the vandals had stolen the copper tubing linking the tank to the oil burner. The dead cats, rats, squirrels, etc. were not a problem.
Good luck, & keep us informed. This looks like a great topic for a photo thread!
Thanks kate I'll keep your suggestions handy when we plan the clean up.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Floors might only need de-waxing or Murphy's oil soap Edit - nevermind that now that I'e seen this whole thang! But they should be done last.
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 3/4/2007 8:28 am ET by Piffin
Hey hey hey !!
Back up a minute !
Can I have a better look at the hats in IMG_2048 ?
=0)
Hey hey hey !!
Back up a minute !
Can I have a better look at the hats in IMG_2048 ?
The old guy left a good bit of clothes behind swing on by and do a little cleaning for us and they're yours!!Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Oh yeah, I'll be right there ! Every saturday !!(Where's the emoticon for sarcasm ?) ;o) That's quite a drive for me.You organize a WestCoastFest down there, and I'll do my best to make it, though.=0)
H T R J
Yea exactly, I don't even know how you picked the dang hats out in that picture. There is a lot going on in it.
One upside to this is the wife cleaned up our current house real nice the other night. Seeing crazy-hoarder-mans filth has made her a little freaked out about our own relaxed take on house cleaning...
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/2/2007 9:12 pm by madmadscientist
ROFLMSOWell, hopefully it'll wear off after a while.;o)It's a terrible thing to have to get used to the smell of lysol.Tell her that the dirt doesn't get any worse after the first year, anyway...
H T R J
Here's a couple of pics to make you want to run home and clean your own house up!
Here's a shot of the middle floor bath;
View Image
Here's a shot of the downstairs bath;
View Image
Here's the 'kitchen'
View Image
Yummy! The kitchen area is actually the stinkyest in the place.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/2/2007 9:10 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 3/2/2007 9:11 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 3/2/2007 9:11 pm by madmadscientist
I'm thinking.......FULL RIP!!!!!!
In the kitchen-bathrooms-anywhere that might be or can be ripped.
Right to the studs!!! bleach or tsp the cavities and reinsulate and DW. In the end it might be faster and cheeper. Especially in the bathrooms and kitchen."No doubt exists that all women are crazy; it's only a question of degree." - W.C. Fields
We were back inside the place today taking some measurements. It looks like ripping it back to the studs is going to be the best bet for the upstairs bottom floor and back half of the house. Well thats just about everything except for what was originally the two nicest rooms in the front of the house.
Also noticed more rat holes and runs...opening those walls is sure going to be fun...Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Open them with dynamite.
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
Yea that's a popular sentiment actually. The nextdoor neighbor wanted to buy it to knock it down and have a huge yard for his grandkids to play in.....
I agree it does seem crazy if your not an old house nut who understands the SF bay area market. Our realtor pulled some realistic comps and with the cheap-o home despot remuddle most folks would do it would go for $8-900,000 On a sale price of $570000 thats not too bad.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I understand why you want to do it. I like the whole idea. I'm just too lazy anymore.
The wife and I looked at an old farm house last weekend. It would have been a great place with about $40,000 including gutting and totally rebuilding a staircase. My knees were hurting already just looking at it all. I just don't have that much spunk anymore. But I'll be damn happy to watch you do it through here. I applaud your ambition.
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
your moving in within 3 months?,working weekends,man you better have bt fest there,maybe every weekend.i'd offer free room and board as long as it takes. in three months i could have the junk hauled off and all the demo work done,maybe...... larry hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
HOLY TOLEDO!!!Man I hate you...I really hate you.
The icing on the cake would be if you've got acreage and a fireplace. Then I'd REALLY hate you. sighRevenge is sweet. Cold passed along to whole other family. BwaHAHAhaHaHAHA<!----><!---->
Wait a minute. I was thinking I just went thru those pics and thought he was lucky the fireplace didn't get painted like the stairway did.
Is that a fireplace on page three with the mirror?
every court needs a jester
Edited 3/3/2007 12:53 am ET by rez
Messy, yes, but not a true pack rat. A true pack rat would have saved every piece of paper he had touched including the cereal boxes and toilet paper rolls for the last 60 years. You wouldn't be able to see the floors because the junk would be 6" deep in the low spots.
Pay no attention to Mooney. He lives in a place that no one wants to move to and he has no idea what the Bay Area market is like.
I beg to differ on the first one . NW Arkansas is in the top 20 places to retire by AARP magazine. In the top 10 for value dollars .
I dont know anything about that areas value is very true. But I can consider what values are in this senario.
If you take what he says the house is worth against what he paid for it then figgure the curve of remodeling pricing in this deal. Take a long look at the house he posted pics and give an estimate of what it would cost to bring that house in top shape to flip .
Take the time needed for the remodeling against interrest dollars.
If we take Andy Cs way of doing it by living in it while it happens all is well if you dig that type of life in exchange for a big return. Small risk. Do-able. Hes not planning on living in it or I missed him stating it .
In his own defense he states that his decision rests on one that he did before and the fact that there were other bidders that backed his play. With that said ;
I questioned if he has the experience to know the difference in the two houses.
When you attend an auction or sealed bidding and win, you just gave top price offering of all competition. Everyone had a chance at it and the winner gave more than all other bets on it . Was that good or bad? It depends on the value and expertise of the other bidders. Its hard to know in sealed bidding since you cant sight judge your competition. Mystery. In an auction you can at least look up your one to one bidder. Is the person a pro making a living doing it or does he watch late night tv? Is the flip it shows his favorite?
In this day and age we are faced with motivated flip it buyers . Im skeptical of going head to head with them. Id rather steal the blind than going heads up. It deserves caution. On the other hand there is a broker here locally I could follow and call on bids till the end if him and I were the only two bidding . I would be able to trust getting true wholesale value. Unless I know the other bidder thats closest to me theres no way to depend on their action. Its a fools way of betting anyway. I guess if I won over the broker after I had used my data it could make me some what more confident . Still I would prefer to steal one that no one else knew about .
Still the time on this project needed to flip makes it a dimmer view for me . Can he make more on this one than doing five easiar ones in the same time frame ? Thats a rough example but as contractors we know that we can work all year on a small profit or part of the year on large profits and end up in the same kind of money examples.
Part of me says leave this guy alone which I will. Hes already bought it so Im not helping him. Of course Im a negative to him at this point . Hes already jumped. He may know his business for all I know.
The other part of me says this is a place to share and learn.
So , Ill aplogize for the first .
Tim
I'm sure you'll be relieved to know that MS apparently plans on living in the place, as per his quote...:
My understanding of the CA real estate market, especially the Bay Area, is that with repairs as mentioned, the $800K+ price is hardly out of reach. In fact, I'd say it's conservative. I'd say tack another 100 on, and you're getting closer. It might not make sense, but that's the way it is.
As a realtor myself, I've dealt with some folks from CA (say...MS, need a referral for a realtor? :p ) who sold their homes out there, and were able to pay cash money for their new $400K houses in Omaha.
And you know...we do live in nice places...but, let's be real. Not many people beating down the door to get in here (or there).
Jason
Thanks for the quotation. I missed it as I said .
Yes, I do feel better about it . He can live there two years and pay zero taxes unless he sold one for more than what is it 500 grand?
Tim
Tim you give sound advice. Its just not pertinant in this situation as we are not flippers but reasonable expericenced old house restorer's looking for one last house to buy-to live in while we restore and then raise our rug-rats there.
If you look at the pics in the link I sent you in the earlier post-we did all that work ourselves with some help from some friends. I'd like to think that we are not total morons in that respect.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Well you are 35 yrs old and you have a pretty wife . You gave the reason you wanted to raise your kids in a better place .
Heres the part that gets me ;
You havent sold your other house and you have bought this one. You are one rich dude or one of you have parents that are very comfortable . Thats a lot of money to lay out with out a return.
So if you can own two places and have neither of them for sale at the moment , then my advice is moot. Im glad thats the case. Anyone who has the money can certainly spend it how ever they want .
Last is the two of you must make very good money. Every one in the bay area it sounds like .
Heres what I figgure from old school.
You should be able to rent or buy in what the bread winner makes per week. As far as I know thats the national standard and has been for 100 years.
I rent a house here for 600 per month , they need to be making that per week clear for it to work . It normally takes two of them. So my rule is not to rent to one person only working . Neither one here will clear 600.
You bought a house worth 800 grand . Thats 8 grand per week clear. Or national average. Congradulations .
Tim
Hi Tim,
We can afford to to pay the double mortages for 3 months tops. Remember we have been saving down-payment money for a while now and a fair amount saved up.
Really the reason why we can afford to do this is our bosses, bosses, boss loaned us all the money for the down payment and we don't have to pay it back for a year at 4% interest-compounded once.
So all the money we were saving for a downpayment can be used to fix the old place up enough for us to be able to move in. Then with the profit we make from selling our current place we can afford to fix it up even further. We will hold back enough of the profit to cover most of the loan minus what our end of year bonusus usually are.
No we are not wealthy at all by bay area standards but we don't live beyond our means and that makes all the diff.
When I said that you were being neg. that came off harsher than I intended-sorry for that.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I think in spite of a negative opinoon, you should stay involved in this one. Your opinion is based on fact and experience. The OP can temper that to his local area. He is going to need advice like you can give. Just keep in mind, he is doing this to live in - not to flip nor to rent.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
you should stay involved in this one. Your opinion is based on fact and experience
I dissagree!
I think Tim knows his market well, maybe better then anybody else could know the market in his home town.
But I think Tim is completly out of his element in this one. Sorry Tim, I dont think this is your cup of tea. You see everything as a return on your money or how much it will return you in such and such time. Thats all well and good but I doubt that many housed would get restored back to there true majesty if we were all buying them to rent out.
I've seen the rental market first hand, up close and personal. I cant think of a better way to ruin a magnificent house then to turn it into a rental!
Sorry Piffin for the diss but Tims negativity on this is irritating to me, why dont he just drive over the the place and pizz all over it, hes said absolutly nothing but negetive shid since the thread started.
Talk about raining on someone parade!
Tim, I love ya man but on this one your outta your element.
Doug
He is out of his element on the local market, but on the skills the mad scientist will need Tim has as much on the ball as anyone.I'm sure OP is mature enough to separate the wheat from the chaff and that he will hear more than one, "you're crazy!" comments in his life.so he'll live through Tim's caustic comment.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Mr. Piffin
so he'll live through Tim's caustic comment.
And Tim will live through my caustic comments as well.
This wasnt a case of Tim saying "your crazy", if thats all you saw then you didnt read enough.
If I had to compile a list of my favorites posters on here Tim would be in the top 5, hell maybe top one or two but on this subject I dont think Tim is the man for the job.
Yea I know that Tim has refurbished a number of houses but remind me where I can find the thread(s) where he has historically restored one, I dont recall seeing any.
Landlords are not well known for there historic presveration, at least successful ones arnt.
Doug
Take it easy there Mr Grumpy!
;)I didn't say you were wrong, just that I had a different opinion. and I'm humble enough to know there's a big difference!There is one heck of a good house under all the grime that youngster has bought, ain't it? I don't know if I could tackle that while living in it. But when I was younger...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I didn't say you were wrong,
My oppologies, bad choice of words.
I'm very lucky in that I get to work in some of the neatest houses in the hood but my one true passion is to restore old houses, something I dont get to do enough of so I love seeing someone restore them before there all gone and all we'll have to look at are these monster houses with no character.
Doug
"...seeing someone restore them before they're all gone..."
ah,...let's not bring blue into this.
be oh oh
every court needs a jester
Edited 3/4/2007 9:33 pm ET by rez
Hey Rez, I'm a reformed razer. I now have that school building under contract and am formulating a business plan to restore/recycle it.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Landlords are not well known for there historic presveration, at least successful ones arnt.
I skipped most of this thread and went down to the bottom so I don't know what transpired, nor do I think I need to know to make the following comments.
Landlording and historic preservation are two entirely different segments of the real estate business. There really is nothing similar at all about them other than they both involve real estate. It would be like comparing carpentry to industrial pipe fitting. Sure they are both in the contstruction industry but nothing could be further apart in their similarities.
I will add that the investment objectives and exit strategies are entirely different too.
Many people equate the business of real estate only to landlording but there are many, many more segments of the industry. Over the years, Tim has provided a wealth of real world experience related to his skills in the landlording (and flipping) business and I am thankful for his contributions to my knowldege base. In some ways, he has helped me to define my goals in the real estate field and he has helped me understand that I DO NOT WANT TO BE A LANDLORD!
I don't have any dogs in this fight...I just wanted to chirp a bit. Sorry, I'll butt out now LOL!
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Landlords are not well known for there historic presveration, at least successful ones arnt.
That was my comment that I made regarding Tim and most other landlords.
I've been a landlord before and I hated it. I have all the respect in the world for Tim, he's doing something that I failed misserably at, and doing it well.
I mentioned that I find Tim to be one of my more favorite posters on here. I have gained a boat load of valuable info from him, his Arkansas wit kills me at times.
I just find what Tim does and what the OPer is doing to have very little in common. Yes they are both building on the future but there are different ways to achive that and I think this is one case.
Doug
You ever been grumpy & posting? I sure have and what I wrote at those times sure isn't what I was meaning or really me. Somewhere Tim wrote that he's been tired & sleeping a lot so probably not his usual.
I think the difference here is that MadSci is beginning a Labor of Love and Tim, as previously pointed out, sees these projects from the Business Return POV, two aspects that don't mix well at all but each has their value & need.
You ever been grumpy & posting?
NO, I keep my personal shid personal. Why is it that people think because you say something thats a little abrasive that you must be grumpy, maybe thats Tims real opinion and maybe my response was real!
I like Tim alot and listen to his advice on subjects like rental property and other related subjects but on this one I think he's way off base and I said it. I dont think Tim has any idea what the realestate market is like in San Fran otherwise he might not have said what he did, or maybe he would have, I dont know, dont really care. If your going to post in a public forum you better be able duck and cover as well as take pats on the back.
I think Tim is man enough that he doesnt expect me to fall in line and follow everything he says. I just thought he was pizzing all over this guys new house.
My opinion of what Tim says or Piffin telling me that I'm wrong still hasnt changed, I still feel the way I did when I posted.
Doug
So you're perfect? right...
This place is about sharing information you know. So instead of just telling him that he's wrong and just doesn't understand, why don't you share a little information with Tim about the CA real-estate market and how inflated it is compared to most of the US housing market? Why don't you explain that many people can't afford to own a home in big cities of CA but would be able to afford a home in different locales? Why not explain the CA economy heavy on science & technology that can support people buying houses like this thread revolves around?
In my past life I did a lot of study on Human Factors done by NASA. They'd like to meet someone like you that can keep my personal shid personal because you're definitely the exception to their studies.
cheers
So you're perfect? right...
Far from it, never said I was nor implied it. Just because I dont allow my personal sh!d to be somebody elses problems is not a suggestion that I think I'm perfect.
I guess I dont need to fill Tim in on the economy/realestate situation in CA, you just did it and by doing so you made my point regarding those differences between CA and AR, thanks.
They'd like to meet someone like you....
I really doubt that they'd be that interested in me. It is flattering to know that someone would like to meet me though!
Doug
Hi Doug.
I take no offense at all. None . Thanks for the very kind words too.
Now let me tell you where we differ , but before I do Ill clear somthing up.
I aplogized for even commenting . Since hes bought it , Im a downer to him and I was going to quit commenting . Piffin requested I stay in it and I answered him. More downer stuff . I dont really have any thing to add to what Ive already said . Now to you and I;
You are kinda blaming me for looking at this subject like a landlord. Only looking at profits whether flipping or landlording . Thats very true btw. I always will look at spending any money that way. A friend of mine dropped by my job to show his wife on Friday night and I was working but was ready to quit . He had been home , cleaned up and had taken his wife out to eat when they drove by there . He said you know Tim , you cant take it with you. Well hes right ya know . My wife didnt get taken out and its my fault . Its hard to break an ole dog from barking when hes been doin it his whole life.
You however are looking at this another way;
"I'm very lucky in that I get to work in some of the neatest houses in the hood but my one true passion is to restore old houses, something I dont get to do enough of so I love seeing someone restore them before there all gone and all we'll have to look at are these monster houses with no character."
You and I will never be together on this one so we might as well agree to disagree. Be simpler. Im not going to change as I said and Im sure that you wont change your passion. Since so much has been said I will one time explain my self clearly on this subject. Here we go;
Ive known for quite some time many people on here have a passion for fine work whether it be a fancy house or restoring one . You name it , fancier the better. Even if they dont get the chance they love to do fine work and thats pretty well their passion. They dont often pay for it , but they truly love to do it . Its their choice of making a living . Most though know little about paying for it . I understand it , but IM not a partner to it . Its not my passion. I do respectable work because thats why Im there and I understand it takes performance to satisfy the consumer , but over all its just a job to me . Im just in it for the paycheck. I work for the highest bidder and I dont really care what type of work it involves. The highest bidder has been lanlording, flipping and trading . Bottom dollar is a lot higher priority to me . I just wanted you to understand the dog you were looking at here.
Now to this case or another one similar . Follow your passion and have fun doing it. Im all for this kind of thing of men and women getting to follow their dreams . But if you dont listen to some of what I preach you might lose your azz. It might be a short lived dream. This guy is a nice guy and I really hate to whizz him off . I do really but ya called me outta the salon. So Ill give just one more before I go and that will be nuff said .
This guy has bought an 800 grand house and he doesnt have the first kinda clue what its going to cost to fix it . . Read the thread . Its never been estimated and he already owns it . I wish I could play poker with him. I never get to play with people like that .
You might not think its necesary to know values , but its not worth risking your family over not knowing . He didnt put his own money up either . He borrowed it all. Hes saved some for fixing it . He doesnt know how far it will go. This is a reality thread. I can see it in full color . He never answered the ability question either. He showed a house he re did but I dont know if it was in this bad of shape . Id feel better if someone like you bought it and I knew could handle it from the physical side . But he doesnt post in threads helping people does he? Theres another clue . I truly hope hes not over his head.
I wish him the best and Im glad hes getting to follow his dream. Hes a fine feller from reading his posts . A real gentleman. I hope the best for all of you and I can tell you I feel it . My wish is to help someone else on here whether they wanted to hear it or not . If that happens , Ill be making a small down payment on what Ive taken.
Tim
Tim
I'm glad that you took none of what I said as an insult because none of it was meant that way. I think your secure enough in what you are/where you are that a little dig on my part isnt going to send you into a tizzy.
You are kinda blaming me for looking at this subject like a landlord
Blame might be to strong a word, dont get me wrong, I dont have a problem with what you do, I actually admire you for it. I wish I was a bit more like you when it comes to money/finances but I am who I am!
I'm lucky as I think you are, we both get to do what we like. I'm sure you like doing what you do otherwise I doubt you'd be as good at is as you are.
There is nothing wrong with looking at things the way you do just as there is nothing wrong with looking at them the way I do. We just dont see things the same.
I make a good living doing what I do. I'm paid well, I make enough to invest in things other then realestate although I have some money in that as well. I have a couple houses and some land so I know where your comming from. Givin the chance to find a simple fixer upper I'm all over it, difference from you and me is that I'm not actively seeking them out.
You might not think its necesary to know values
Tim I was sorta accusing you of that! In that you didnt know the realestate situation in the San Fran area. I'm sure that the madscientist has some idea of the finaces he may just not be typing all of it out.
The prices they pay for stuff out there staggers my mind, that same house here would be $175K and when done would only bring 3-400K so the numbers sorta baffle me but I understand there is a huge difference in location.
I do think we can agree to disagree and thats cool. Seriously, you dont want us all to be like you do you! :)
To coin an old Arkansas (or maybe Iowa) phrase, "I dont want to beat a dead dog here" so I'm going to end my BS, I gotta go to work dammit, my boss aint gonna understand if I try to tell him I had an important conversation going with a guy on the net from Arkansas, who I've never meet!
Later
Doug
This guy has bought an 800 grand house and he doesnt have the first kinda clue what its going to cost to fix it . . Read the thread . Its never been estimated and he already owns it .
Doesn't know what it's going to cost to fix it?!!!!! If thats true, I'm on your side Tim LOL!
On the other hand, if he knows it's got a couple hundred thosand dollar spread and has a rough idea that it'll take maybe half that, perhaps there's no cause for alarm.
I don't think there is anything wrong with being a negative voice out there Tim. If the original poster has done enough market studying and has done his due diligence, it won't matter what you, or I, or anyone says....he'll know he's done the right thing. You are speaking the truth though when you warn about how a lot of people purchase these types of properties and lose their tail. Especially in this day and age where information is coming at you from so many angles, it's all too easy to get caught in the rush to cash in on "easy" money in the real estate market. A lot of newbies rush in, dollars first, and ignore the fundamental guidelines that are outlined in their seminar books and tapes.
I know nothing about buying old $800,000 projects, but the carrying costs seem astronomical to me. The easy part seems to be the renovation LOL! If I had that alligator around my neck, I wouldn't be typing on this computer, I'd be over there pitching trash...23 hours per day! Tomorrow I'd be roughing. The next day, the mechanicals, after that, isulation drywall and finish. I'd make "Flip That House" looks like slowpokes!
Thanks for your contributions Tim. Your real life opinions are some of the most valuable things I've learned here. Thank goodness I don't have to experience all of the lessons of landlords, landlording and repo buying in real life!
blue "...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
"On the other hand, if he knows it's got a couple hundred thosand dollar spread and has a rough idea that it'll take maybe half that, perhaps there's no cause for alarm."
Thats a good point .
The one I bought last week was just that type of action. I was competing against a realator and a builder if I tried to steal it . Knowing I couldnt steal it but I had to act quickly I went directly to the owner and made a side deal with him . I told him I would give him more money cash. He had a problem with having to pay the realator, so I gave him that money too. I also paid the closing as an extra that only him and I new about causing a blind situation to someone else . The realator knew the offer number but he didnt know the side bet and he raised it but not enough. Plus it was an old man and he gave me his word it was sold to me and we shook hands . It helped me that he was mad at the realator for having to pay him for an hour listing .
I had the house bought verbally in 1 hour from the time I recieved the lead . 55 minutes after the realator has gotten a signed contract from him. I did not have time to figure the job but roughly in my head walking through it with a flash light . As you said it didnt really matter. I was double up on my money. Here was my mental break down in head;
30 to buy.
max 30 to fix
minimum 30 profit.
max 4 week time line on fixing
House sold for 98 cash 6 months ago.
I bought it for 30 grand and I didnt figure it on paper because there wasnt time if I wanted to own it . It was bad cheap .
Im trying to stay under a 10 grand budget for material with out my labor . If I do that Ill turn it into a rental making even more . 800 per month on a 40 grand investment is my goal right now . If I break the budget Ill sell it , so Ive got two outs.
I own the house but if I wanted full financing on my figgures;
40,000 @ 8 percent on 30 yrs = 293.51 payment
800 rent - 300 = 500 per month.
Appreciation at 5 percent per year average over the last ten years is around 5 percent per year on 100 grand . So that 5 grand is added money to the above figures. Minus taxes and insurance is about 10,000 per year gain on a 40,000 investment which comes out to be 4 to 1 on the money or 25 percent per year return.
I do that stuff in my head all the time so you are right . Sometimes the actual cost of construction is not a heavy figure if it doesnt play in the mix heavily.
But if you dont know the numbers how would you know what you were doing ? I can see someone bidding framing work with out knowing how to cut in a roof , but if they dont know , the bluff will catch them.
There was a story a short time ago about someone buying a house to flip. They didnt know enough to catch the water standing under it . They couldnt afford to fix it after they got the estimate so they chose to cover it up hoping they could fool someone else . If they knew the imformation they wouldnt be playing that game . They also were operating on a small return which caught them. If they had stole it they could have salvaged it but they didnt know their numbers.
Tim
Tim, what makes you so effective is that you know your market AND are ready to pull the trigger, on the spot. That is a powerful combination. The icing on the cake is that you have the capital ready.
I wish I had an interest in landlording. I have been passing up some very good deals this year but I've studied the business, decided how I want to move forward from here and am not wavering...at least not yet.
Interestingly, even though I am deadset against landlording, I am right now forced to re-evaluate that decision on the school project. The feedback from goverment sources might cause me to take a serious look at some of the tax incentives and benefits. I've already been looking for property managers, but I'm not too hopeful at this juncture.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Im not selling landlording .
It takes a different kind of person and not one acting like one . For instance a nurse would have no business being one in my mind. A policeman would probably be a fit or a building inspector. <G>
Its a nasty job sometimes and not one thats done 9 to 5 , 5 days per week. I wont go on about it but you never know if your day is done or if you will be working the weekend.
Someone that likes to fish or play golf might love it . Sometimes things go so smoothly you forget you are a landlord like a Maytag repair man. Then a storm hits out of no where .
What I really love about it is the numbers. Its such a grand return on investment I dont know any thing legal any better. At least thats the way its been for me but Ive never seen a crash like Mich. That could wipe a feller out easily. Still someone will end up stealing the pie there somehow. Just wait and see how they geter done .
Knowing the market and the numbers is kinda like knowing a trade. You have a wealth of information in the trades that you dont think about . You cant just pull it out of your shirt pocket but you know whats going on. If asked questions you could end up lecturing on the subject.
The house business as I call it envolves a mastery business . Because you have to master so many different skills . Its really quite weird someone would have the range of experience to master it all but its still necesary. Im just gonna ramble a bit.
Accounting skills instead of geometry.
A rounded knowledge of construction involving all the trades but knowledge to do several as a pro. A little house inspector and a little building inspector goes a long way.
Business law dealing with real estate that an agent would test on. Not to the extent of a lawyer . Its so helpful to know what the heck those forms are telling me . What is legal and what is not . You have studied quite a bit in this area I know .
Banking procedures often learned in 2 year degrees and some formulas. Thats been a tough one for me . If you dont know enough to ask they wont hand you a piece of bread. Bankers make a living taking advantage of stupid in a legal manner if you let them.
Breaktime has been my number one source for information and really the stem cell for knowing where to go to get help. I havent read the books I should have read but Ive lived at Breaktime off and on. At one time I bought all the books on lanlording that was in print . Im sure Im very far behind , but I was really disapointed with the reading . I can tell ou guys with out a doubt that you all around carps are several steps ahead of those authors with a little study.
Suppers ready
Tim
If you dont know enough to ask they wont hand you a piece of bread. Bankers make a living taking advantage of stupid in a legal manner if you let them
That is true. The other professions will certainly put a stinger in your pocketbook too Tim! Want some competent law advice? Go to a lawyer right? Oops.....you better know what kind of a lawyer you need. Don't know? Just ask him and pray that he's not trying to beef up his billable hour reserves!
Accountants...the same thing.
The odds are stacked against the little guy who walks into some professionals office and that certainly includes bankers. You have to make them compete to get your business. It's the american way.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Out of what you and I listed , the list goes on.
I just got through pricing somthing as small as a garage door . The one on the house is ruined . Dad used to tell me anything over 500 dollars get three phone quotes and I still live by it . I dont have a clue why I recieved three quotes so spread out .
656.00, 599.00, 549.00.
I called three places while I was working and got calls back to my cell phone. Cell phone time was around 15 minutes total, so that was also my time spent.
The broker ment to steal the blinds after recieving the bids . Its legal. He must present all offers and its up to the owner to decide . Was it unethical? You bet , but legal. He listed the house and recieved the bids that he viewed and made an offer himself. He also called the other builder and told him to up his bid after his own failed . After he had just offered more than mine on paper he figgured it was personal. As I said he didnt know about my silent offer in addition. I had figgured the play made by him in the beginning . So with the man sitting in his office to acept my bid he called the other builder. He didnt have the cash and his offer wasnt cash in the first place so he lost it. The broker wasnt able to steal it from me after veiwing all the bids. I think that goes on all the time .
Contractors, vendors , etc., can take advantage too.
Anytime money passes through our hands to someone else it pays to know somthing about the process for our own education.
I dont think there is any way to learn it all and I dont think I know enough as I keep getting humbled by what I dont know . Out of what I listed I need to learn a lot more . But out of what I listed , it makes it a mastery talent business that is not recognized. People think its luck or bad luck. My problem with the books , seminars , and tv shows. Those people are selling somthing they want us to buy, but they dont want to make it look too hard to learn or they dont know it themselves. I mentioned publishing a landlord book because I thought I could offer somthing different . After further review of my idea it would have to be directed at people with skills and talents of building . Acountants own rental properties all the time because they realize the return and the numbers are better than you can go out and find in most cases. Still carps own less rentals than acountants alone. Of course there is an income difference but with the right plan a carp can own them too. With every property standing on its own merits it should not take money. It doesnt if done wisely.
Still all the books , seminars, tapes , are of great value to learn a different side of doing somthing . We can invest 20 bucks or so and get educated lightly in an area of expertise. Many times a book will describe a certain process but not the whole thing which is fine as there is only so many pages or so much time . There are books that go in detail of different processes and ones that touch a few subjects lightly. What we get though is their take on the process which is valuable .
One thing is certain ; We should know our business in detail.
Tim
Hello All,
Had to run to Vegas for a couple of days for work. Here's an update...We signed the papers last night, the seller signed all the papers earlier in the day and we should own the home tomorrow!.. Except for a lein issue that the seller has straightened out with the city/county.
Have any of you guys heard of this. The city came in and fixed up the old guys house for him because it was in bad shape. They didn't condemn it and tear it down they came in and fixed it? From looking at the permit records it looks like the city came in and rebuilt the back proch, installed a new service panel and subpanel and rewired parts of the house, insulated, sheetrocked, installed some free standing gas heaters and did some foundation work and of course cleaned the place out from top to bottom. This was about 10 years ago. Then the city let him move back in?? Now the heirs owe ~$300,000 dollars in leins and back taxes.
The back 6' of the house has a definant slope to it but that part is supported by new pressure treated framing and concrete piers. It 'looks' like the city just rebuilt it off-level or the peirs they used were not up to the job and they have sunk.
Latest B.S. development is that the seller wants to get back in the house over the weekend to retrive 'personal property'-that would be after escrow closes...I'm changing all the locks on the place Friday afternoon and I'm going to meet them there on Sunday. If they show up with a big moving van there's going to be fireworks I-tell-you-what. I interpret 'personal effects' to be pictures, personal papers that kind of thing. Not potentially valuable antiques....
This whole greedy grandkid business is making me a bit sick to my stomach. The neighbors (who have been there since '75) say they never saw a relative visit. The deceased owner Henry had a heart attack several years ago and the the entire street was calling every name in the phone book that could be potentially related to him..no luck, he had to suffer through it alone... Now that there is some cash to be made they are all over the place trying to nickel and dime us every chance they get. After fees they are going to make over $100,000 is that not enough? $100,000 of basically free money to them that they didn't earn.....oy what greed makes some people do.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Oops I forgot to show this pic of the 'new' back porch. The second set (back) of 6by6 posts support the rear of the house.
View Image
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/8/2007 3:56 pm by madmadscientist
How pissed do you think those greedy grandchildren are?
They were going to split $400K, no it's $100,000.
You can bet they'd already spent the money, now those new cars and boats are gone & it's all somebodys' fault.
You're it!
They are going to expect to clean that place down to the dirt on the walls & you're in the way.
Joe H
If they were just a little bit smart they would of written it into the contract originally that they would clean the place out but they didn't want to lift a finger. Hell if they would of spent the time to clean the place up themselves that would of added a lot to the price I bet!
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I just called the local trash company about rates for debris boxes. They charge $1089 for a 30yard dumpster with a 6 ton trash limit and a 76.20 del charge. I can put anything in the dumpster as long as its not offical toxic waste. For that price I get it for 7 buisness days. If I go over weight its $63/ton.
How's that compare to what y'all are charged?
Starting calling around to the reputable foundation guys to get quotes on replacing ours...everyones telling me its from $100-$150 a running foot....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Be smuggling trashbags to work.
Maybe pile it in the yard and stare at it for awhile. Something cheaper will occur to you.
Joe H
We get 60 yard dumpsters for $600.00 no time limit. Fill it to the top. No weight limit. Of course we are a long time customer.
i'm reading your post on the dumpster,and i know that i have no clue what it takes to dump. but for 1200. per 6 ton i would buy a dump trailer for 5k or something. if this was mine i could easily see 30ton of debris coming from this for cleanup and construction. thats 7500.00!! sell the dump trailer for 3500.00 when your done.hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I assume you're talking about Waste Management for dumpsters. The last bunch I got down there were from a private guy who owned his own roll-off truck and dumpsters and was a bit cheaper. His name long since escapes me, but if you check around there are bound to be other private outfits. It goes without saying that you want one with a solid lid that can be locked, unless you want to guard it with a shotgun all night.
I'm a little late to this rodeo. Just spotted this thread today. Hope you keep us up to date.
I just called the local trash company about rates for debris boxes. They charge $1089 for a 30yard dumpster with a 6 ton trash limit and a 76.20 del charge. I can put anything in the dumpster as long as its not offical toxic waste. For that price I get it for 7 buisness days. If I go over weight its $63/ton.
I'm paying $300 for 20 yarders, $500 for 40 yarders. Plus the $50-100 'fuel surcharge', plus some misc. fees. Plus $3-5/day over 7 days. But then I'm in the midwest where the houses go for a fraction of what they do there. $1k sounds like a bargain.jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
educate me on cailf. real estate,i always here the expression "in escrow" whats that?
heres how it works in kans. find a house,sign a contract,not legal until both parties have sign and each have a copy of signed contract. usally put down a earnest money check at signing [500.00 and up].
contract goes to title company who searches the ownership and any leins that may be on property. now this can be done in as little as 2 days,but that is very uncommon. usally the title company takes 2-4 weeks. in the meantime the buyer can line up funds. now during this period the seller can remove anything from the property that is not attached permantly. so in your case they could come in and take anything they deem valuable in the way of antiques. and depending on the way the contract is wrote leave all the junk.[if i'm buying a place with lots of junk i will write into the contract that "property will be broom clean" unless the price reflects i'm the one shoveling.] so in about 30 days the buyer flops down the funds and title company guarentees clear title and deed to property.
i'm amazed at how you can sign a contract and close next day. is the money put into a escrow acct. until all liens have been cleared? as a buyer it sounds like you better have funds in your pocket before you sign on the dotted line.
here's a couple things i'd like to comment on. first if they show up and want somethings after escrow,if it was me i would say no problem,it's all yours good and bad.they get the dumpster and they load all the stuff in the house and pay.let them have the few things that might be worth a little money.
next if the city had 300k in liens i'd be talking to them about their workmanship warranty on the back where it has sunk down?????????
keep up the posting on this because it makes me feel good i'm here. 40 yd dumpster 115.00 fill it up to 18 tons at 22.00 a ton. [plasters heavy!]
good luck on your purchase,if it turns out as good as your house now you will have quite a property. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
You bring up several very good points.
The buying a house business works pretty much the same here. After you submit a bid and the seller agrees to it and signs it and accepts your good faith money ~3% you go 'into escrow'. The title-escrow company holds all the funds and does the lein, title search and makes sure all the conditions in the bid are met. The seller and buyer sign the offical contract and the loan money is transfered into the account. Once all thats happened the sale becomes offical and you 'close escrow' the seller gets their money and you get the keys to the place.
You don't sign the contract till just about everything else is done that's why we signed it on Wednesday and we are getting the place on Friday.
I like your idea about checking with the city on their workmanship warrenty. Its been ~10years since the work was done though...
The grandkids getting the stuff after escrow was not an original condition of the sale. They took pains to make sure we know that EVERYTHING in the house was ours to deal with. At the last minute they forced us to sign an addendum that said that they could come in this weekend and remove personal items....I'll let you know how it pans out. The house has 6 exterior doors (all with deadbolts) so changing the looks and or getting them rekeyed is going to be funDaniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
how can somebody force you to sign something?
Was your lawyer present?A sales contract here either includes or excludes contents. When certain personal effects are separated out they are each individually named in the contract. If not named, they are included in the contents. If you signed something allowing them access to generic "personal items" quick check with your lawyer what is the definition of that.
I'd wager that if they had no personal connection to the item, it is not a personal item but an inherited one that they had already sold to you.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well no one forced us to sign anything but if we didin't sign it the deal would of possibly fell thru.
This was an addendum to the contract that they wanted added after we agreed on the original contract.
Yes I agree it is too vague but the wife signed it for the both of us while I was in Vegas for work....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Danial
This whole greedy grandkid business .....
Welcome to the world of greed. I see this all the time - I frequent estate auctions/sales, you'd be surprised what money will do to an heir.
I interpret 'personal effects' to be pictures, personal papers that kind of thing. Not potentially valuable antiques....
Forget all about these undeserving ingrates for a moment. How are you going to know what is a personal piece of property. For instance, take that wheel chair that you pictured, you mentioned its value at approx $2500, I question that amount because around here it wouldnt bring 1/2 that but regardless, what if that belonged to gramma Esther? Wouldnt that make the piece a "personal item".
I have antiques that were simply bought because I like that particular style, they hold no "family/personal/sentimental" value. Their value lies in what the piece is worth.
I also have some family antiques, although they have a value they are considerably more valuable to me based on sentiment - that value being "irreplaceable" which is quit high!
How are you going to have any idea about family/personal/sentimental effects? Guess what, your not.
If you own the place and the contents then YOU, and only you should do what you think is best, hell with what they think.
I dont know how the law reads in Cali but here in Iowa if I bought a place and there was no stipulations in place for the contents then once the paperwork is done everything including the snow on the roof of that house is mine.
Good luck with the greedy heirs, and dont forget to keep us updated on the place.
Doug
Hi Doug,
I konw what your saying. Don't drop down to their level but I'll be damned if I am going to let them grab everything of value just because its of value.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Danial
Don't drop down to their level but I'll be damned if I am going to let them grab everything of value just because its of value.
I agree, and obviously there grandfather(or whatever kinship) was of little value so good chance that there isnt any other items in that house of value (to them) either.
I wouldnt let them in unless I was mandated by law.
Of course if while cleaning out the place I came across birth cetificates, family pictures, stuff of that personal nature I'd box it up and send it to them. Of course they probably wont appreciate it but at least you did what was right.
Doug
Yea I won't be a jerk about it. They have already tore thru the place looking for a will but if I do find anything like that I'll of course forward it on to them.
I'm sure its going to be tense if they show up with a moving truck but I will not let them in unless they agree to be terms. Which will be I have to aprove of everything they are pulling out and they have to convice me its a personal item.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Okay its done the keys were dropped off at our realtors place around lunch time and the house is offically ours!!! I feel strangely relieved and am anxious to get starting clearing the place out.
We've got a friend that sorta specializes on 'cool old stuff' and Alameda has this big antiques fair once a month and she has agreed to help us get our stuff toghether to sell there! I'm hoping that I can convice her to do most of the work for a reasonable cut of the profits.
Here's an update on the greedy grandkids... So only one key was dropped off at the realtor. The front door is locked with one key. There is a padlock on one of the downstairs doors and a combo lock on the garage. They wouldn't give us the key to the lock or the combo....They say that they will take them off when they leave. They are making over $100,000 and they won't give us $10 worth of locks!!! That tells me a lot about what kind of people I'm dealing with here.
Would it be sinking down to their level to cut their locks off with bolt cutters. I'm pretty sure that the one key they gave us is also not going to unlock the 5 other exterior doors with deadbolts-I can't imagine the crazy guy had them all keyed the same.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
>Would it be sinking down to their level to cut their locks off with bolt cutters.
I think you need to be the one to take the high road. OTOH, assuming you can get it all through the front door, I suggest you pull anything you think might be contentious (and worth the trouble) out before Sunday.
Don
Danial
Okay its done the keys were dropped off at our realtors place around lunch time and the house is offically ours!!!
OK, the place is offically yours so they(relatives) have no right to be int he house, right?
I would say that even if they have keys to the place they would be tresspassing if they entered, at least thats the way it is here. I know that things are different elsewhere but when you say "officially yours" I'd assume that that means they have no right to it anymore.
It really doesnt matter if they made $100K or $100million, the're intitled to there padalock if they choose but wouldnt they have to have taken it before closing?
I think I'd be over at that house securing it about one minute after I closed on it. Maybe even post a "No Trespassing" sign just to grab their attention and let them know that its not theres anymore. Dont be subtle about the latter part.
Doug
this is coming from a landlord view. they have religushed the house ,gave you a key,you have 600k invested,i'd be over there cutting every friggin lock i need to and secure with mine. NOW not sat not sun NOW. if you have to screw the doors shut do it. change all your locks that you can NOW! if anybody starts saying anything tell them your insurance co told you you had to do it becuse if someone is in the house and falls it's your problem. are you still sitting there reading this???? i change my rentals as they walk out the door.it's my house not theres. larry i've been through this also ,if a window is broke out and something is gone,call police and give names .hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
I AM SO FRICKEN PISSED OFF RIGHT NOW I COULD JUST, GOD I DON'T KNOW WHAT I WOULD DO.....
I'm just glad I wasn't carrying my usual array of concealed deadly weapons.....
So here's the story...yesterday while I was at work the greedy grandkids ransacked the house. They did not give back all the keys at the close of escrow. One of the neighbors called my wife at work and said she had just gotten home and they were loading up a u-haul with stuff......
Now the gosh-darned amendment my wife signed gave them till 5pm Sunday to remove 'personal effects'. Fine but we were supposed to be there to keep an eye out. I raced over there and they had already gone. We cut off their locks and I replaced all the exterior doorsets with my own.
This morning I get there and they are already there and in the house!!! They had forced open the rear door!!! My wife gets on the phone to the local PD and I go racing out of the car and up the rotten steps. I was angry to say the least. I yell out, 'Who are you and what are you doing in my house!?!?' The head gg says this is my house till Sunday at 5pm. I get verrrrrry close to him and speak very slowly and with as much menace as I can muster. This is my house and you are only here by my good graces. If you want to steal everything of value fine, my wife agreed to it and I'm stuck to abide by it. Have your damn blood money but do not touch anything that is part of the original fabric of the house and do not damage any bit of the house.
The other day he tried to sell the original mantle to the house which is installed downstairs (attached to the wall) to the neighbor for $1000...this is what had me soooooooo upset. He tried to tell me that he could take it if he wanted to because blah blah blah...at this point I was wishing for the VERY sharp knife I always carry so I decided to back away and wait for the cops. His realtor calls and I'm screaming at him telling him he's a dirt bag and has dirt bag clients and I'm going to throw them all in jail and sue him for breach of contract blah blah blah...I was a bit peeved at him.
Three cop cars pulled up and we explained the situation to them. They had known the grandpa and were also disgusted with what the gg's were doing. Actually by this time there was a crowd of neighbors watching all of this from across the street who also knew the score and were disgusted by it. The cops said that because of the agreement that its basically a civil matter and we had to work it out ourselves. I got the head cop to mediate and say in front of her that they would not take anything that was once part of the house. That had to be good enough because I could not stand the site of them anymore and I sure as hell was not going to stick around and watch over the white trash mofo's.
We gathered up the original bits from the place and leaned them against the mantle and took a picture as proof...hopefully that will be good enough.
You guys just can not believe these people....I was aghast with disgust with them... There was a coffee can of pennies, they took it. They were gathering up all the random copper fittings he had hoarded, to sell for scrap, they had a bag of all the really random silver they could find. The head gg even had the gall to say to me that he wanted us to send pictures of the house after it was redone so he could bury them with his grandpa to 'honour his memory'. He told my wife that they were removing his 'personal effect' to honour his memory...she just about punched him.
One good thing is they have no clue what's worth taking so they are taking pretty much everything. I even convinced them to take some junky old stoves cause 'they were worth money'.
I'm sick to my stomach still about it....just the most worthless, toothless, white trash, disgusting greedy mofo's you can imagine. The look of glee and relish in their eyes as they poured thru the old mans things...god I need a beer or three. I'm guess that they are thinking that with the windfall they will be able to all get new double-wide trailers and afford to get their camero's off the cement blocks in their front yards.
Ahhhh, I feel marginally better after writing that...especially the white trash part...Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Breaking & entering is not a "civil" matter.God, I wish you would have changed the locks a heck-of-alot quicker. I've heard nasty stories here too.50F & sunny. The whole weekend is to be GLORIOUS! Happy spring dance...cha, chacha. Happy spring dance...cha, chacha.
Unfortunately, that was 100% predictable. Hindsight is 20/20, as they say. Next step is to build bars across all other doors, then change all the locks. And teach your wife to never, ever sign anything as vague as that.
i completely feel your frustration. my next step would be to spend the night there tonight till sun. at 5.then it's not a civil matter no more there gone ,period.
i know at the moment it's hard to see the forest for the trees. let them get their crap and don't worry about the value,i know as a % of what you spent on the place it don't amount to that much.if they do unbolt something from the place i would document it and sue them and get the agent involved,he made as much as anybody on this deal..... larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Oh, Daniel, Daniel.It has nothing whatsoever to do with stooping to anyone's level (as you just found out).As soon as you had physical possession, there should have been a call to the locksmith.When I got my house 2 1/2 years ago, the sellers pulled an after-the-fact request for a monthlong rentback (because they agreed on one for the house they found to buy), and which I did *not* agree to. I did end up giving them 11 days in exchange for them moving the closing date up, with a very vaguely written agreement tacked on to the papers for me to sign at closing. This being my first home purchase, I didn't know that everyone doesn't actually meet at closing, so there was no way to negotiate or really clarify much of anything.Well, they kept on wanting to stay past the 11 days, their realtor didn't even tell them that I clarified "11 days past closing" to a specific date before I signed the addendum, so they thought they had 3 more days anyway because the money didn't transfer on Friday like it was supposed to, and they didn't make any attempt at all to start packing during those 11 days. I sent my "nice cop" fiance over to take up the carpeting on my version of the day they were supposed to be out, allowing that if they put up a fuss, he could start with cleaning the crawl space but to let them know in no uncertain terms that the carpet was next, whether or not they were still in the house. My fiance made nice with their realtor and helped him find some day laborers to help them pack.I yelled at their realtor on the phone about what a disservice he was doing them by letting them believe everything would just magically "work out", demanded to know the name of the moving company so I could call to confirm that a van was really scheduled for their version of the moveout date (he didn't provide it, but it let him know I was serious), and generally played the "bad cop" role.They got out by 6pm (rather than noon) on their version of the move-out date, with their realtor begging me up to the last minute to let them stay longer. What do I find when my fiance, his two friends visiting to help us clean the place up, and I go to take physical possession at 8:00pm? They had provided me with keys at closing, but not the one to the security screen doors - front or back. So I was locked out of my own house.No need to think twice about calling a locksmith then. The previous owner had tried to sell me the appliances separately, even though they were included in the accepted offer, so there was some risk that he might come to get them. When the locksmith showed up to let us in, I had him change *all* the locks, right then and there, at after-hours rates. We got in around 11:00 (either they were good locks or it was not a very good locksmith, he couldn't pick the lock on either security door and had to rip off a door knob with vice grips) and slept on the sticky carpet that night. The carpet came up first thing in the morning.Sheesh, some people. I'm sorry to hear about your losses, but if they dragged out a substantial amount of garbage as well, that's less expenses for you to dispose of it, too.Rebeccah
Obviously I should of changed the locks faster but escrow was not supposed to close till around noon on Friday and I had to work that day. With my new 'high finance' style job my boss does not give a crap about what's going on in my personal life-its all about the results...
I had always planned on changing the locks on Friday night the gg's just beat me to it...and this morning they forced open one of the back doors and got in anyways...and the fricken Alameda cops wouldn't do dick about it...you go 30 in a 25mph zone and there all over you.....
Just heard some gunshots from the corner and there is a bum living in an abandoned car across the street.....I'm ready to go!Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I guess I missed the fact that they had been there TWICE. And that the second time was forced entry.The forced entry is not something I would have anticipated.Gunshots and a bum living in his car? I thought this was supposed to be a nicer area than where you're moving away from?Rebeccah
Gunshots and a bum living in his car? I thought this was supposed to be a nicer area than where you're moving away from?
I am still so twisted up about this that I can't sleep so I thought I would wade thru some emails... I was talking about where I live now in West Oakland not Alameda.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Time to breathe deep and take a good long look at something that pleases and relaxes you, then look forward to the positives
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's exactly right. A nice cup of coffee, some relaxation, and then dream about laughing with glee as you toss tons of stuff into a dumpster. That would be therapeutic.
Piffin, Hammer Harry, Blue,
Yep I know I'm way more calm about it now than I was yesterday, hardly a murderous thought has crossed my mind today...
I just dropped the wife off at the airport and I'm going to fix myself a big breakfast have a nice cup of joe and chill in my backyard garden oasis.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'm kind of wondering what your attorney was doing during the closing. I would've thought he'd protect your wife from agreeing to such an ambiguous description. The atty is the pro and paid to protect you but IMHO he failed you on this particular line. So you say the whole deal hinged on access to personal items? Describe/define them in the contract.
20/20 hindsight.
That's true, but it's time to let it go, eh?
Time for new chapter
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Indeed. Hopefully we all learned the lesson while MadSci made the payment for us.
I want to see pictures of the place once it's cleaned out & cleaned up.
It's 70+ outside and the kids are napping. I'm going out to play.
Here is a bit of calming vengful though t for you then...They will eat themselves alive! parasites like that always do. Good that your hands are free of them and their diseaase.My wife's brother's wife - guess she's a SIL to me - her folks died in a bad accident. Pretty sure he hada heartr attack while driving and then went across the center line to head on another vehicle, whose occupanbt died along with his wife.There was a cremation before autopsy confirmed the cause of death. At first it seemed unimportant. Then the estate of the other driver sued his estate for negligent death of something like that. They could not prove accidental death becasue of the cremation so the house was lost to auction. Only fu4r5niturte and personal effects was left to the heirs.Where this gets similar to your thing - my SIL only wanted a couple of things furniture wise and personal stuff from the house, but her siblings from way out on the west cosast who had had no contact for years were squabbling over the spoils. They finally divied up stuiff and each item was labeled on a weekend. SIL came home and was going back monday to get hers with the pickup truck. She was only wanting about 10% of the stuff and the other two were welcome to divy up all the rest.When she arrived, the whole damn house was empty. Neighbors said they had pulled up a Uhaul early AM and loaded away, including what was marked for her! All she could do was cry.Long story short - the two of them have eaten each other up and are still losing ground financially, brought on in part by their own greedy ways.Let the curse go with the stuff they took away.And give the house a happy re-incarnation celebration. Don't just wash away the grime. Think up a celebratory way to wash away the sad history and give it re-birth.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My brothers did that to my sisters & me - stole & sold all the furniture, etc., that they agreed we would have -
One of them died this summer, & we were glad - Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy...We had a great visit with all our cousins after the funeral.
He finally found a way to make you all happy, eh?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Glad you've calmed down a bit, I totally get it.I can still get myself worked up when talking about the nightmare I had getting the previous owners out of my house (the last thing I wanted was to have them there long enough that Oaklands renter protection ordinances come into effect and have me not be able to get them out at all!) But in the end, I got the house, and after only one phone call to my cell a couple of weeks later asking for payment for the applicances that came with the house, I never heard from them again.Except for their mail. They never put in a change of address at the post office. So I did it for them.Anyway, it will continue to make a great story for years to come. Both my experience and yours.Rebeccah
chill in my backyard garden oasis.
Thats awesome Daniel!
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Danial
Whats done is done. If your wife signed a paper stating that they have until 5:00 Sunday eve then they have until 5:00 Sunday eve, NO two ways about it!
Did you buy this place for the junk that was left in it or did you want the house? I'm assuming you wanted the house. :)
Dont take this wrong - I've been dealing in antiques for 20 years now and people like you, people that dont have very much knowledge in antiques, are the most dangerous people when it comes to putting a value on them. You see big numbers in your head when you see antiques and all of a sudden your thinking big money. It aint always that way. Take in point that wheel chair, I mentioned what I thought it was worth before and I bet I could go out and find you one tomarrow for under $1000, far from the $2500 that your friend mentioned. And unlike the property e-bay has made location of antiques irrelevant.
Of all the pictures that you posted I didnt see anything that I thought was worth much, granted there may have been something hiddin in that mess but I didnt see it.
If they have a signed piece of paper, by you or your wife, to get stuff out by 5:00 tonight then just let them have their stuff and be done with it, why open yourself up to a potential legal mess?
You've mentioned that they made $100,000 and they should be happy, what the hell does that mean? It shouldnt matter if they made $10 or $10,000,000, thats not your concern, or at least it shouldnt be.
Your letting your emotions get the better of you, try to think of the big picture, you got the house and thats what really matters.
Hopefully this will all be over with tonight and you can get on with your dreams of fixing the place up. I wouldnt bother to send them a picture of it when your done though. <G>
Doug
I agree Doug. The house is the prize. The house is 99.5% of the deal. The stuff inside is .5%. It's probably now wise to get angry and frustrated about that .5%. It's probably a much better idea to focus on the 99.5%.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Well Doug,
We did go on eBay to look for reasonable prices and my wife found a similar wheelchair that had been bid up to ~$2500. I looked on eBay for the antique tube radios and they go for a couple hundred bucks each. We were certainly not expecting a goldmine or anything but it would of been nice to help defray the costs of the clean-up and junk hauling.
But that's not exactly the point of what I was getting at. Here's why I was pissed mostly. They tried to sell the original mantle to the house (which is attached to the house still) to the neighbor for $1000. They had planned on taking the original wood doors (with fancy inlaid eastlake hardware and crystal knobs) that were off the hinges and leaned against the wall next to their respective doorways.
Taking parts of the house was absolutely not in the deal and that's what made me fighting mad.
With my comment about them getting over $100,000 plus what ever money they can get for grandpa's stuff (to honor his memory of course) shouldn't that be enough? Do they need to pry the mantle off the wall to make more money? I say heck no! That's what I was getting at. They can have their can of pennies and their boxes of old copper plumbing fittings and what not-less crap for me to cart away. Actually now I'm kinda glad they were such clueless scavangers-I would of tossed half of the stuff they kept. Now I can get a smaller dumpster!
Nother thing that pissed me off big time was when I told him he was in my house the head gg said with a smirk, 'This is MY house till Sunday at 5pm.' I had to explain to him that since escrow closed the house was mine and that they were only guests there. The structure and every part of the house (whether currently attached or not) was mine. That they were not to damage the house at all. Somehow when they were there they managed to put a couple of holes in the drywall moving stuff around.
Yes I am letting my emotions get the better of me...a man's home is his castle and all that....I guess I felt a little violated by them forcing their way in.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Danial
I'm glad your fine on the whole deal now.
First, and not really important at this stage but just because you saw a wheel chair on e-bay selling for approx $2500 doesnt make yours (or the one in the house) worth that much - can be a lot of variables for why one goes for X and the other goes for Y. Also that can go the other way, yours could be worth more - maker, condition, provenance.......... all moot at this stage.
Second, just cause I told you that you should be calm and let them have all the junk that they wanted doesnt mean I would have! Its easy for me to stand back here and remain calm, hell I dont stand to gain either way.
If I had been the new HO and one of the dirt bags was trying to sell off the mantle, or any of the other house fixtures, I'm pretty sure I wouldnt have stood there and watched them do it. Doubt they would have gotten the job done either!
I'm happy that things turned out fine all things considered.
Now lets get going on the rehab - you got a camera right!
Doug
a 2500$ wheel chair should be able to compete in the natoinals shouldn't it???Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
One would think so wouldnt they!
Personally I dont know why anybody would want one of those things sitting around their house.
Doug
Personally I dont know why anybody would want one of those things sitting around their house.
Think halloween!!! That would be part of a great prop! Old women in a chair calling after you! Or what about an electric remote controlled wheelchair that moves about on its own!
That's what I would do with it if I could afford to...
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Im not quite done reading the thread , but follow my advice next time ;
Possesion at closing and a right to an inspection the previous hour to closing .
If you dont like what you see in the last hour , WALK. It should be your right .
I was asked to close on a Friday and so DW and I showed up on the one IM working on now . The owners werent there , so I walked . I said call me when they show up. They tried to talk me into laying down cash with out them signing . I laughed all the way out the door for real. They showed Monday and called me . We both showed up after veiwing the property to see nothing had changed. We both signed on the dotted line and I handed them their cash. I had the locks previously bought in the truck and after the next hour it had my locks on it .[plus I was on site in 5 minutes] I insured the house on the cell phone enroute to the house which I had already set up. I then called the power company and met them.
I could not have done any of that with out a signed document. Once I handed them the cash money it was mine or I would not have closed.
The landlord comment is serious and good experience .
On the other hand the possesions were not yours . However your wife screwed up big time. I would never allow a seller access after sale for any reason. I simply would not hand over the money. I would not close and that puts stress on the seller. They have their stress to deal with also.
It could have been "yes" you can have your stuff as long as you own it and the house is still in the same condition I will pay you for it . However as every single day goes by theres a chance it might get damaged while in the sellers name . After all its vaccant and no one can really protect it so as far as IM concerned , the seller needs to be responsible for it until possesion at closing . Then it becomes the buyers baby .
Tim
They tried to talk me into laying down cash with out them signing . I laughed all the way out the door for real.
Did they know who they were dealing with!
I dont picture you falling for that one when you were 18 years old and now that your really old, NO WAY!
Doug
"Did they know who they were dealing with!"
Well, as DW and I were leaving the closing office that day I stopped and said , they shoulda known I wouldnt do that . They know me . She laughed and said well, I knew you wouldnt do it . She said she was reaching for her purse when they told us the sellers wouldnt be joining us.
I made a cash offer and thats what I brought to the table . They forgot why the cash was offered I guess. At least my view point. Id hope any one would have walked in that position. I had two more weeks to close by our agreement so it wasnt a default to walk that day. I just said call me when they show up. After all they were the ones who didnt show.
Tim
It could have been "yes" you can have your stuff as long as you own it and the house is still in the same condition I will pay you for it . However as every single day goes by theres a chance it might get damaged while in the sellers name . After all its vaccant and no one can really protect it so as far as IM concerned , the seller needs to be responsible for it until possesion at closing . Then it becomes the buyers baby .
Yep I agree....the wife knows she screwed up bad and I am also pissed at the realtor. No way he should of let her sign a silly agreement like that. I unfortunately was out of town on business and she was basically left to deal with these situations on her own...... Problem was she was the one that really really really really wanted the house and I think that she got a little panicked when she felt that they were going to pull the sale away from her. Here too the realtor should of been more helpful..... Oh well live and learn... if our plan works out we won't have to move anywhere else for a verrrrry long time.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Something to keep in mind for the future.The realtor is on the sellers "side". Unless you have a buyer's agent, a realtor is looking to make money for the seller (and themselves), ALWAYS. Something that I've found out after too many years.50F & sunny. The whole weekend is to be GLORIOUS! Happy spring dance...cha, chacha. Happy spring dance...cha, chacha.
Yea exactly we had a 'buyers agent' put he wasn't sharp enough or on the ball enough to be of much use in the negotiating phase...Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I think weve beat this dog to death.
Just remember that she would have been protected by contract. If I understood this happened after the agreement was signed and was an addendum after the fact .
Oh well, hopefully you wont be in that position again.
Now Ill take up for her .
Its really hard to get away from a raise bet when you are in love with your hand . What you should do is play your competitions hand first but when love gets in the way things can go south. If its what she wanted then its probably worth it , but I cant think that way which makes a lot of this hard for me .
Now for you.
I no longer take DW on the first trips when scouting properties. She has the same problem. She wants them all at any price. I dont want her beside me at an auction urging me on when she doesnt know the numbers. She doesnt understand the difficulty in the remodel. If she thinks its cool , she just wants it . I buy over 50 percent with out her knowing it. I just dont want her involved in the pre flop. Believe it or not she understands it. I know what its like to have a wife begging for a house . It aint pretty for me . Its very distracting .
The one Im working on I signed the offer with out her knowing it . I called her and asked her to lunch and drove her to the house and said this is going to be yours. Shes used to it. Several years ago I sold the houses we were living in 4 times in one year. We moved 5 times that year and she said thats enough but that was our best year financially. I thought it was nice to be making a living moving but she didnt share those feelings.
Wifes are deal makers or killers .
Tim
I know what its like to have a wife begging for a house . It aint pretty for me . Its very distracting .
Tim
I had to laugh when I read your whole post!
My wife and I are looking at a house right now, she likes it at any price and I like it a whole lot more at $20-25K less then it its currently being offered at.
Its an estate and I know the owners, they think they are sitting on a pot of gold but they arnt. If someone else comes along and gives their asking price then fine, it aint the last house out there for sale.
I tried to tell my wife that if it sits there for a few months then they'll realize they cant get what they want and then we can make an offer. Their realtor, whom I know well enough to know he's not BSing me, said that they wont even consider any offers below asking price. Well the place is now going on 5 months into the list and I cant help but think the owners are starting to soften.
I think playing cards with you might be entertaining, probably lose my azz but it'd still be entertaining!
Gotta leave those emotions at home when your trying to buy something, they can only hurt ya.
Doug
You'd have to play poker with Tim for awhile before you figured him out.
Bet he's got a mean bluff.
Joe H
Most women take about two years to get the pictures and curtains hanging just right. You left the poor woman barely enough time to hang them at all!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I dont know what it is with wimmin. <G>
Tim
Well, we're not *all* like that.Although I guess it depends which part of "that" you're talking about.We still have pleated paper blinds and I bought this place almost 3 years ago... but I couldn't handle 5 moves in one year.Rebeccah
Got down to my new local building dept today....wow its a lot different here than in the much bigger city of Oakland. Small, friendly, no armed guard, they let you behind the counter to sit with them at their desks!! Crazy!!! Here's one thing that was strange the front of the house is all women! The entire place is run by women!!! I think the only men working there are the BI's... Had a loooong nice chat with all the ladies about the house. They all new about it and were exicted to meet the fool that bought the place. I brought pictures of the insides which they loved.
When we got down to business they were also pretty reasonable. Turns out the permit for a new foundation and slab (even digging down for more headroom is OTC which was not what I was expecting (after talking to one of the local highly respected foundation contractors). I had to do some serious sweet talking and cajoling to get them to let me even apply for a demo permit to pull down the lath/plaster on the top floor and the drywall on the bottom floor. They are making me get a Hazardous materials report ~$300 with the lab testing...they want the drywall and lathe/plaster tested for asbestos <sp?> which means if I am lucky I can do the demo next weekend while I still have the big dumpster. Even after the gg's filled up a 12' moving truck 3 times there is still probably enough junk to go a long way towards filling the 30 yard dumpster.
The nut job scavengers are totally circling the place. I had to run two of them off today. I'm hoping that they will clean out my dumpster for me but what I'm really worried about is the dumpster being outfront and it getting filled by other peoples junk. One of the nice neighbor ladies told me she was already looking forward to getting rid of some junk!!! I had to explain to her that we get charged by the pound and we can only fill it so far and that if after we were done if there was still room she would be welcome to put some of her trash in it. I'm going to make up signs and put them on the outside of the dumpster explaining that its not a magical free trash repository....we'll se how that works...
Oh yea the foundation quote...are you sitting down... ~$120,000!!!! I almost shat myself when he said that. That's not the real quote that's just the rough estimation so I'm not sure what exactly that covers...but damn that's a lot of money.... He's working up the official itemized bid now and I should see it tomorrow. I think I better get a couple more quotes ya think?Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
They are not all like that?
Mebbe not , but they live off emotions dont they?
Tim
I live off work that earns money, like most people I know. Rebeccah
guffaw*
Now that was funny right there! :o)
every court needs a jester
Not sure if this thread is way to long but....
Met a breaktimer over the weekend Zak from Berkeley showed up Sat. morning with his beautiful wife. Who is an entomologist and who saw no evidence of termite activity-not a really termite report I know but it'll do!!
Rats!!!!! that's all I gotta say is RATS!!!! The stench of the house is mostly due to rat pee.... Its soaked into everywhere they hang out and there are a lot of places like that... After clearing the place (took three hours to fill the 30yard dumpster and I still need another 20yards) there are a lot of rat holes...a lot....
The awesome recipe given here 3quarts water 1 quart bleach a pint of white vinegar and a splash of dish soap has been working amazingly!! We have been washing everything with it. I flood the floors and scrub them with a deck brush and vacuum up the rest with a wet-dry shop vac. Has made a huge difference in the stench level. We've also been spraying straight white vinegar on the really stinky parts.
Hey check out my wife's blog on the house
http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Someone leave a comment please, my wife is super bummed that no one has left any comments yet (don't tell her I said that).
Man I'm tired it was a long weekend....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
2 quarts bleach.
snort*
Hey mad, I can't see a place to leave a comment on the blog.
every court needs a jester
Edited 3/19/2007 12:18 am ET by rez
On the main page what you see is short blurbs for all the postings. Click on the grey title such as 2 down... then it takes you to the full article and at the bottom of th article there is a link to post a comment.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Never thought I'd get rave reviews for a cleaning solution on a FHB web site but I must give do credit. The recipe is from a friend of mine that worked riverboats/barges on the MS river for cleaning the boats. I have used it as strong as 1:1 bleach:water (kind of along the lines of 'if a little will do a little good, a lot will do a lot of good') but that was mostly for heavy algae/mold on siding. I like the idea of pine sol in lieu of the dish soap., I'll have to give it a try.
No such thing as too long of a post on the same topic. Keep adding to this one so we can find it easier and for others with the same penchant for rescuing rat traps to learn & maintain hope. :)
Hey John,
Well the stuff is cheap compared to commercial cleaners and works at least as well. Since we are using it by the gallon its good that its cheap.
Heard a great story from the across the street neighbor last night. She said that she would look out her window and see the old owner walking across the stuff piled up in the front room. It was so high that his feet were at the level of the middle of the double hung windows!! That's about 4' off the floor! Thank goodness the place has 10' ceilings.... That story also explains a bit about why the oak floor in that room is so rough...
Last night as I was drifting off to sleep I thought I heard rats sckritching in the walls of our current house!!!! Man I leaped outta bed looking for the sound of the noise. Turns out it was my clock radio that was on and getting this weird static-noise-music signal in bursts....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
It's hard to shake the heeby-jeebies after a day of cleaning like that. Your wife has some kind of internet trick because when I looked at the pic of the toilet with dead rats in it, I got a sense of an odor in my head. yuck!
You've got more determination & insight to diamonds-in-the-rough than I.
Was looking at the floors in the pictures, can they be salvaged? Some of the old (1850s) houses I'm familiar with had very nice subfloors. Stuff they used to call scrap back then we call high dollar nowadays.
On the middle floor the formal parlour and dining room have the thin strip oak flooring and the rest of the place is vertical grain doug fir 4" wide by probably 1" thick.
Unfortunately since the guy had 4' high piles of trash covering these floors they did not fare too well. The oak is in bad shape with some parts buckled from beeing wet and some parts look a bit rotted or chewed on...or both...don't think they can be saved unfortunately...I'll take pics when I'm there this week.
Finally got a hold of the foundation guy who I used on my current house (he went on vacation how dare he!!!) he was good, quick and reasonable priced (not the cheapest or the most expensive) if his bid is anywhere in the ballpark I'm going with him.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
At least you can see the original floors, so you can replace them with appropriate material-
Maybe when you get it all cleaned up, some rooms might be salvageable?
Ill tell ya what , Ill try to make you feel better.
If you get to thinking that you are the only one dealing with a gawd awful mess youre wrong . There are probaby several here but you can count me as one . In fact Im in a lot worse "mess" than you are right now.
It took a week before I could see the floor and every thing is charred black with smoke and deisel [raw and burned] . You would not believe what I smell and look like at the end of the day. I spent a half day on one window and the other half on a bathroom . I wasnt half done with the bath room.
I promised before I would shoot some pics and I havent but I still promise I will . This is a wake up call becuase Ive got the worst of it out and I dont have one single pic. ouch!
Tim
WOO-HOO got the demo permits today!!! Only cost me $400 for the permits and another $700 for the hazardous material report!!! Best thing was, I don't think anyone there had ever seen an offical asbestos report. I had to explain it to them! Of course I explained it in a way that put me in the best possible light! They didn't say anything about how I was supposed to dispose of the 2% asbestos textured walls...they didn't even mention it! $700 for nothing except to get in their good graces maybe....
Got the 20 yard dumpster coming this Friday and all weekend its going to be demo fun for everyone!
I tell ya the 'unbuilding' insert in this months FHB couldn't of come at a better time. I will use his methods for removing the lathe/plaster and drywall. I finally feel like we can make some real progress on the place... Spent two hours cleaning the stairway and bannister with a toothbrush!
Snapped the biggest horror-movie scale rat in a trap over the weekend-what fun.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Edited 3/27/2007 5:18 pm by madmadscientist
Thanks for update - I've been wondering how you are doing. I tried to go to your DW's blog, but nothing happened. Maybe you could show the link again?
My house was pretty awful when I started, in 1999, & I'm still picking away at it, so I feel your pain...
Here's the link to the blog again
http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
SHe's been pretty good about updating it when we are there working. Hopefully after the weekend we will have a lot more interesting pictures to put up.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
What did you use to clean the bannister? Just the tooth brush or was there some kind of cleaning agent involved?
edit to add: maybe you can put your wife's blog address in your Favorites section of your Profile so it can be found easily.
Edited 3/27/2007 8:58 pm ET by john7g
What did you use to clean the bannister? Just the tooth brush or was there some kind of cleaning agent involved?
edit to add: maybe you can put your wife's blog address in your Favorites section of your Profile so it can be found easily.
We used the magical cleaning formula from this forum. 3 parts water, 1 part bleach, half part white vinegar and a splash of pine-sol. Its been working pretty great and its way cheaper than any commercial products.
We've sorta hit on a method to clean this sort of foulness. 1) Get out your shop vac with the hepa filter and vacuum all the dry dust-schmutz up. 2) Wet the area you are cleaning with the solution. Let it sit for a couple of minutes. 3) Scrub area with scrubber pad or sponge or toothbrush if its highly detailed. Toothbrush really comes in handy on all the molding profiles. 4) Rinse off scrubbing device in bucket of just clean water. 5) Dunk scrubbing device in bucket of hot soapy water and repeat. This way you end up changing out the bucket of water pretty regularly and waste less of the cleaning solution.
Wear a good dust mask and keep the windows open and make sure you have good ventilation or the fumes from the cleaner will get ya.
I put the blog address in my sig hope that helps.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 3/28/2007 2:45 pm by madmadscientist
I'm sick to my stomach still about it....just the most worthless, toothless, white trash, disgusting greedy mofo's you can imagine. The look of glee and relish in their eyes as they poured thru the old mans things...god I need a beer or three.
Daniel,
I've been reading this thread with interest. It looks like you got yourself a house with great bones. Those houses from the early 1900s are my favorite -- there's a real elegance to them that one simply doesn't see anymore.
I also completely share your anger over the greedy heirs -- especially the part about them trying to cannibalize valuable pieces of the house! That would have made my blood boil!
The only thing I have to add to this discussion is this: in a way, you are fortunate that the old man's heirs were such worthless losers. Had they been responsible and loving, it's most likely that the old man's house would never have found its way to such disrepair -- and you never would have been able to afford to acquire it.
Sometimes, things work themselves out in strange ways.
Congratulations on your purchase! The memory of those bastards will rapidly fade.
Best regards,
Ragnar
It's your house. I wouldn't let anyone in it unless I was there. Personally I would let them pick their "family treasures and memories" out of the dumpster.
They won't sell you a gun if you are crying.
http://thewoodwhisperer.com/
It's your house. I wouldn't let anyone in it unless I was there. Personally I would let them pick their "family treasures and memories" out of the dumpster.
Amen. If they did care enough for the old codger to visit him while alive, then all they're after is things they can sell. Screw 'em.jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
yea thats all water under the bridge now- I've made my piece with it.
Did I tell y'all that we actually did find some treasure? It was in a capped off piece of galv. pipe in the garage. LIke a 2' tall stack of real silver dollars. A fair amount of them from around the 1880's. Don't know what they are worth but I bet they'll make a good dent in our dumpster fees! Also found a box of equally old pennies the guy collected.
I'm just really happy that we got all the rest of the trash out. Ended up being ~40 cubic yards of stuff and we haven't even started the demo yet.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Did I tell y'all that we actually did find some treasure? It was in a capped off piece of galv. pipe in the garage. LIke a 2' tall stack of real silver dollars. A fair amount of them from around the 1880's. Don't know what they are worth but I bet they'll make a good dent in our dumpster fees! Also found a box of equally old pennies the guy collected.
That's awesome! Where are our pics?
Here was one I posted a month ago from an article in the local paper. Unfortunately, it wasn't ME or my house <sigh>
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=86031.1
I'm just really happy that we got all the rest of the trash out. Ended up being ~40 cubic yards of stuff and we haven't even started the demo yet.
Well, didn't you want to be on a first name basis with your dumpster lady? ;)
I did a 20 then 40 then 10 (got another 10 or 20 in my near future). Neighbors were probably laughing at me those times I'd climb on top of the mountain of debris in the 40 and jump up and down to mash a bit more stuff in. Probably lucky I didn't impale myself.jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
I did a 20 then 40 then 10 (got another 10 or 20 in my near future). Neighbors were probably laughing at me those times I'd climb on top of the mountain of debris in the 40 and jump up and down to mash a bit more stuff in. Probably lucky I didn't impale myself.
Yea I did the same thing with the 30 yarder. Was jumping around on it because they were pretty adamant about nothing being above the 'water line'. Lucky for me I had a bunch of scavangers take a bunch of stuff so I was able to squeeze in some more.
A 'friend' of mine that was helping us clean is a coin collector, said he was going to take them to a friend of his who is a coin appraiser. I need to get them back from him because he offered me a whopping 9 dollars each for them.....I think thats a bit low...
I'll have to find a honest appraiser somehow. I keep hearing horror stories about dis-honest appraisers will try to screw you outta your treasure.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
1/8" to a dollar
48 " in 2 ft.
8 x 48 x 9= $3456
That will pay for at least one dumpster.
mad-
You might want to get those back and just buy or borrow an up to date coin pricing mag to get a ball park idea what you have there.
Considering the fact that due to the wide fluctuations in pricing various conditions and different dates and mint marks, just offering an across the board offer of $9 a coin raises a big red flag to me.
Considering the fact that due to the wide fluctuations in pricing various conditions and different dates and mint marks, just offering an across the board offer of $9 a coin raises a big red flag to me.
Yea me too I looked on line a bit today and all the stuff from the 1880's is worth at least $100 each if they are in good condition...and these look pretty much like new...this guy is a friend and he is generally a good guy he just can't not try to screw people as hard as possible when it comes to money....its sorta sad really.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
1880's is worth at least $100 each if they are in good condition...
Dan,
The silver market never recovered from the crash in the late 70s. Unfortunately, I am doubtful that many of your coins are worth much more than $5-$10 apiece. If you look at Morgan Silver Dollars at Ebay you'll get a glimpse of what I mean.
With that said, RARE coins can be worth THOUSANDS. You definitely owe it to yourself to get a price guide (or do specific online research) to get a rough education as to what some of the coins MIGHT be worth. After that, I wonder if you could pay a professional appraiser to get a written appraisal of those coins which might be of high value (based on the initial screening you did yourself).
Worst case scenario: it seems like you stumbled onto several thousand dollars! Woo hoo! Too bad the loser heirs didn't get a hold of that stash! ;)
Sounds a lot like some of the posters in here
;-)
Just had another thought about the coins this morning.
Since you ended up signing away the legal rights to the "personal affects" of the previous owner, is it unreasonable to think that his heirs might come after the silver coins were they to get wind of them?
If it's not too late already, I would NOT recommend telling all the neighbors about your treasure find.
Sounds like the GG's had until Sunday to loot. Their time is up.
jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
Yea thats right they had till the Sunday and anything left over is ours. If anything turns out to be really valuable we might post it up on the blog to rub it in their faces...if I don't take the high road that is.....nah the low road is much more fun...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Im trying not to lose my faith in mankind but i got totally screwed on the last few " coin" deals i did. What bugs me is i help people all the time and when i need some advice its a state secret, OK i said to much dont wanna give a downer you dont have time to look into everything but get em back as fast as you can. Wait till you have time then go with someone to ask.
I'll have to find a honest appraiser somehow. I keep hearing horror stories about dis-honest appraisers will try to screw you outta your treasure.
Along the same line as rez suggested. Get the coins back. Another trick for dishonest appraiser is to "substitute" a less valuable coin for one of your more rare ones.
I've heard it's done with jewelry as well, take out the very valuable stone and replace it with a much cheaper one.
Gotta get someone you can trust.
Doug
Any idea what your total sq ft is for the 3 floors?
Yea I did the same thing with the 30 yarder. Was jumping around on it because they were pretty adamant about nothing being above the 'water line'. Lucky for me I had a bunch of scavangers take a bunch of stuff so I was able to squeeze in some more.
My 'project' is in a small town (10k). Reasonable area. Nothing disappeared or was added to the dumpster without someone asking first. And that copper pipe I ripped out, one pile sat on the front porch (in plain view from the street) for a couple months. The other was piled next to the driveway (behind house) for 2 or 3 months. Neither pile was touched. Meanwhile, in the town I'm LIVING in (5 mins away), people steal copper pipe out of houses while the water is still on.
Another interesting thing about this small town.. They don't let you burn, but they WILL let you have weenie roasts/bonfires/camp fires. So I made probably another 30-50 yards of stuff disappear into the 'weenie roast' fire. Most of it was termite damaged or old water damage, so it burned with very little smoke. But the running joke was that if you saw a cop car, someone needs to go stand out there with a hotdog on a stick ;) Between dumpster and fire, it seemed like a lotta dang stuff to come out of a 1600sqft ranch!
A 'friend' of mine that was helping us clean is a coin collector, said he was going to take them to a friend of his who is a coin appraiser. I need to get them back from him because he offered me a whopping 9 dollars each for them.....I think thats a bit low...
I agree with the other folks who say to get the coins back as soon as possible. And find out their value from a different source. If it turns out that they're only worth $5-10/ea, you could either sell them, or do something with them. I can remember once seeing a table where someone had made a table and put a layer of coins across the top of it and then some kind of clear resin or such. Made for an interesting conversational piece. jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
friend of mine is a fireman.can't burn anywhere in the county at all. so some guys have a fire burning in a barrell full of copper wire.burning to get the insulation off. when fire dept gets there they have hot dogs hanging over the fire. this isn't there first day on the job so they tellem to put the fire out. couple days later get a call to same place,same deal they got the hot dogs out. so he walks up hi what you doing? oh just roasting some dogs. he walks over and sits down on the step and tells him he's going to stick around until the eat the dogs and then he'll put the fire out! these guys roast there dogs for 30 mins,starts whining saying if the eat them they will get sick from the insulation smoke. buddy tells them eat em or pay a 1000.00 fine.they ate em! larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
The place is about 3500sq ft on three floors. We pulled out 40 cubic yards of well packed junk. But before that the gg's filled two 30 yard dumpsters with pure trash. Then they filled a 15' moving van at least 4 times with their treasures along with a mini-van and a regular truck...the poor guy had a lot of stuff.....
This place Alameda has a wonderful small town feeling going on but it also has this weird meth-head thing going on too...What I've been told is this. NIce old house grandpa buys and raises a couple gen of kids there. The grand kids inherit this million dollar place and its basically free for them to live there-so they do and get all hardcore white trashy-meth-heady because they've got barely any living expenses... makes for a weird mixture...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 3/30/2007 7:38 pm by madmadscientist
I'm enjoying this thread and your wife's blog immensely. I have an old friend in San Jose who's been collecting Victorians with his wife for about 25 years now. Like you, he has tremendous vision, even provided the oomph for me to buy my own Victorian to restore a few years back.
There's a Victorian Preservation Association in Santa Clara County, hq'd in San Jose...might be worth joining up to network. If you do che, tell Matt and Deb i said hello.
http://www.vpa.org/
PS: From where i sit, those coins are the house saying, "Thanks!"
Edited 3/30/2007 9:23 pm ET by splintergroupie
Oy!! What a weekend!!
On Sat. we got the entire bottom floor demo'd. Wow there is actually quite a bit of space down. I'm already excited for how big my mad scientists laboratory is going to be...
We got part of the top floor done. Holy Mackerel I had no idea how heavy the plaster is....I just had no idea....the two flights of stairs were just way too much by the end of the day. I should of rented-begged-borrowed one of those chutes the roofers use....would of been so much easier than taking it all out by hand...
Sunday we were still tired from Sat but we got most of the top floor demo'd and part of it trucked out. Nobody wants to carry anymore trashcans of plaster down the stairs. The framing up there is a bit unusual. A lot of it appears to be just to of had something to nail the lathe too. Still has the old gas light piping in the walls-ceiling also. Best thing was, was when we pulled down the ceiling and it rained rat and raccoon turds on our heads for a looooooong time....yummy.
Ruffmike from Breaktime stopped by to say hello-it was his birthday so I didn't try to put him to work.
Wifes got pics up on her blog in my sig.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Your lazy wife hasn't posted anything since last night.
How can you do that all day & still hit the net when you get home?
Young I guess..........
Joe H
Does that mean you discovered a previous unknown clawfoot tub hidden behind a wall?
Parolee # 53804
Does that mean you discovered a previous unknown clawfoot tub hidden behind a wall?
No it was the tub in the top-floor bathroom. It had a surrond built around it to make it look more like a modern tub. My wife was very exicted when she pulled it off because she wants a clawfoot tub for soaking in. I'm excited because she is going to clean it and I don't have to carry it down the stairs!
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sounds like it's all getting better as the days go on.
You've got a diamond in the rough and a hat's off to you for taking the project on.
It'll be worth it.
Parolee # 53804
We had another busy weekend at the new place. We even worked all Easter on it! I got a super great Taco Bell dinner (skipped lunch) for my Easter meal...
Got the top floor completely cleaned out and I hit the bottom and top floors with the bleach-vinegar mix. The place does not smell too bad now...
My wife got the lucky job of pulling out all the rat urine soaked fiberglass insulation out.
There's lots of pics and her take on the weekend on her blog in my sig...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Man, that's some impressive progress there. . . . .What's next after you finish the gutting and cleaning? Any news on the foundation front yet?zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
You know its crazy the weekend you were there was our first work weekend. We've only had three work weekends and yea (if I don't say so myself) we have got a ton done. We've gotta start working up the plans for the top floor master bedroom suite so I can get started on that.
The foundation guy that I've used before is going to do it. His structural engineer is going to draw up the plans and figure all the stuff out for earthquake retro and all the free spans I want to do in the shop area. The guy lives in Davis (2 hrs away) and only gets down to the SF bay area on his own weird schedule. Hopefully we can meet up this week and he can get the plans done in a week (so I'm told). I'm told he works for a very reasonable fee and his solutions are very reasonable. I've been burned by a local SE and now I'm twice shy about dealing with these guys. I'm not building a fricken hospital on a bridge on a major fault line for crying out loud!
Can you believe that we filled that 30yrd a 20yrd and 3 14yrd (our bigf truck) dumpsters with stuff from that place? It just didn't seem that big.
Hey, wanna build a spiral stair case? If things work out I am going to need one from the middle floor down to the bottom floor.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Good lord that's a lot of trash you pulled out of that place. And plaster, too- I know how heavy that stuff is, and I'm glad I wasn't there for the haul-out.
A good engineer, or even better, a good builder-engineer team, will make your life so much easier. I hope that one works out for ya.
That spiral stair sounds like fun. . . .I don't think you'd want me fumbling my way through it for you though. I'll come down again when I've got time some weekend- hopefully that's not too far off.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Inspiring progress and inspiring friends! Your Wall-o-Weeds brought to mind an article in Dwell magazine about an interior wall of vegetation on a poshish place in France. <g>Have you redone a tub before? I had good results spraying three coats of automotive paint (mixed with hardener). I used a conventional spray gun, though HVLP would likely work better. I have a friend who's been in business for ages doing bathtub and appliance refinifshing, and he tells me that's what his color coats are. He bakes them with a halogen light array, but i just let mine sit for a long time before i used it. On the outside, after i took the plinth off, i was able to reach all parts with my belt sander, whose nose fit nicely under the lip. That stripped the paint quickly, but also smoothed the casting considerably so the subsequent paint job was nicer than you generally see.
This is a very timely replay as my wife is trying to figure out how to refinish the tub. He do have HVLP sprayers so that should work out well.
The plinth is the rough texture on the outside of the tub? I had not considered that it could be smoothed. Wouldn't you know it my wife bought me a belt sander last year for my birthday....lucky girl...
What do you do about the porcelein interior surface if its got chips and what-not? How do you smooth out the chips? Bondo or something like that? You use an automotive finish on that surface also or just the outside surface?
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I had wonderful results spraying the outside of the tub & sink (& radiators) with Krylon hammered finish in spray cans. I used silver, but the other colors look good too. The hammered texture has little ripples that go over the rough cast iron & look...expensive!
I didn't have all the stairs you guys do, but the screw-on dolly for the Rubbermaid trash can was fantastic. Saved a lot of effort.
You can rig up your own chutes, but be aware that you can get some strange bounces when stuff lands.
I had an attic full of mouse droppings and corpses (not rats). used a heavy garden hoe to pull down most of the ceiling drywall. In places where I didn't want the drywall to come crashing down, I would reach up and pull it down by hand (I'm tall and the ceilings are only 8').
My favorite moment was when I had a hand placed just right so that as I pulled a piece of drywall down, a decaying mouse corpse slid right past my gauntlet workgloves and right up the sleave of my coveralls.
You guys have really done wonders in just 3 weekends. Hope your structural inspection/repair goes smoothly.jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
>mouse corpse slid right past my gauntlet workgloves and right up the sleave of my coveralls. <
I would've paid to have seen that dance. Yuck! ;)
You should of seen the big burly men screaming like girls when it rained rat poop on their heads for what seemed like 5 minutes!!!!
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
You should of seen the big burly men screaming like girls when it rained rat poop on their heads for what seemed like 5 minutes!!!!
LOL.
I just pretended the mouse droppings were black rice. But then I also had a respirator and a hat on, so that helped (but you'd still get 'rice' down your coveralls).
Don't think that I've run into rats in a house. Obviously gonna be bigger than rice... big as pinto beans? or just shapeless blobs?
"Dang Frank, looks like some of those black pintos are raining out of the ceiling again. Try to keep your mouth closed."jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
So what's the latest?
Parolee # 53804
Sorry for the late weekend update. I spent the weekend mostly cleaning up the bottom story and finishing all the nit-picky demo stuff down there. That took longer than I thought. I wanted it cleaned up and nice smelling for when the SE came on Monday to look over the place.
Wifey spent the seekend removing the redwood T&G siding from the topfloor covered porch which is going to become our master bath. Its going to be a strange bath as the space is 6' wide by 16' long with the outside ends under the sloping roof....We found yet more rat nests behind the siding and had to toss a lot more fiberglass insulation that was soaked in rat urine. The outside wall had a 1' deep layer of pine needles. The nearest pine tree is a block away. Dang industrious rats I say. we have not caught another rat in a couple of weeks so I am hoping they are all gone. Wifey has the knack for finding the dead ones though...found two last weekend, lucky girl.
On Monday I met the SE and my foundation contractor there and went over the various options for what we can do on the bottom floor as far as clear spanning in the shop area and shearwalling and what not. The SE has to figure out which is the most reasonable way to give us the largest amount of clear space in the shop. (i've got another there here on that sorry I don't konw how to include links to the threads). The SE was also nice enough to take a peek in my attic and tell me what is structural and what isn't and told me I needed to fix the framing on the dormer as its way underdone and even quickly told me how to do it.
But the absolute best news is that a friend of ours has decided to buy our current house from us!!!! Now I don't got to fix the current place up to please some potential yuppie buyer and I don't gotta pay a 5% realtor commision (we are doing it FSBO) and with the money we clear we can afford to get the foundation and the roof done right away with enough money left over to do some other projects like tankless water heater and central heat. So much less stress now that we have a buyer....
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That is good news for sure. Sounds like it is all beginning to come together after the horrific tales getting there. You sure have done a lot of work seeing the pics from here or in the other thread.
So what was the final on the silverdollars story?
Parolee # 53804
mad, ya left us hanging on the silverdollars?
Just been busy, aye?
However, if one designs to construct a dwelling-house, it behooves him to exercise a little Yankee shrewdness, lest after all he find himself in a workhouse, a labyrinth without a clue, a museum, an almshouse, a prison, or a splendid mausoleum instead.
Parolee # 53804
Hey Rez,
Sorry no update on the house lately. We've been a bit stalled with waiting for the engineer to do his thing-I'm meeting him there Friday afternoon to go over his rough draft plan. Our home computer had a melt down and I lost all of my CAD files on the dang house so I'm going to have to redo all of them yippee!!!!!! We've really just been cleaning the place and cleaning the place and cleaning the place....I'm in love with the borrowed pressure washer....makes it look like we repainted!!
Have not got the silver dollars and pennies back yet...he did call and say he was going to be in town but I wasn't so we put off the reunion. I think that we are just going to keep them. Do some sort of wall display with them and maybe by the time we have a kid ready to go to college they will be worth something.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Here ya go Rez a bunch of stuff to read about the house.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/04/structure-is-thing-pt-1.html
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/05/look-ma-no-kitchen.html
Take a look I could use any kitchen design help.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
A few thoughts on the kitchen- Looks like more cabinets than a person would need. I think it would be more pleasant to cook in if you lost some of the uppers in the main cooking section, around the stove and possibly the sink. Then, if you were so inclined, you could turn one of the cabinet areas furthest away from that work area into a built in cupboard/pantry thing- floor to ceiling cabinets, no counter space to collect stuff.
That's just an idea, maybe it would make it function well and keep it looking kind of classic.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Hi Zak,
Well you'd be surprised how much cabinets a person needs... I am at least. Yea I hear ya on the two much in the upper cab's dept. On this first draft I tried to stuff as many cabinets as I could in to see. I really do like all the counter space though. Three people can easily be working away and not get in each others way.
Did you take a look at the bathroom post yet??
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I hear ya on the need for lots of cabinets, I guess I wasn't writing what I was thinking. . . which was more like a suggestion to mix things up a bit, as far as just base cabs, base and uppers, and full heigh cabs. Seems like it looks less off the shelf that way.
Haven't looked at the bath pictures yet. . . . maybe tomorrow. . . yawn. . .zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
The kitchen sink is too far from the stove, locate it directly across from the fridge. No, I don't think there are too many cabs either.
Hi Mark,
In that diagram there is like 5 possible places for a kitchen sink shown. We are leaning towards a large corner sink in the corner between the stove and the dishwasher. Is that where you were thinking?
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sorry, I only saw the white sink, but you want the stove, fridge and sink in close proximity. So yes the corner would work well. I've seen some bad kitchens, including my own, which is a small, in line (sort of) inconvenient affair.
Not like any of you are waiting on the edge of your seats for these updates but I thought I would fill ya all in on what's been going on.
Lot's of cleaning still.. We got smart and rented a floor scrubber (the kind you see guys cleaning/polishing big marble floors with) and attacked the filth on the floor with it.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/05/back-to-cleaning-really-i-mean-it-this.html
It worked amazingly well with the bleach-white vinegarr and pine sol cleaning mixture. It cut thru the ten years of hoarder goo pretty well and the old vert grain doug fir floors came out looking pretty good. It even cleaned up the oak floors in the two formal rooms pretty good. You can tell that at one time the oak floors were really nice...now they are just trashed-cupped, warped chewed on by rats-ruined by the vynil tile mastic....
Going back and forth with the engineer too much for my taste. He's been out three times to the house already and still I don't think he's getting it right. He missed the fact that the load-bearing center wall down the length of the house is discontinous (its broken up into three sections displaced laterally from each other) with the second floor loadbearing wall matching it...he had a dropped beam in the garage area that was going to be real low right where we are going to be getting out of the car at...
Here is something that I am a bit worried about. The bottom plate all along the perimeter is totally rotting away...its about 2" below grade and one one side they poured a concrete sidewalk right up and over it...What's keeping my goof framed on 32" centers studs upright? I really want to get the place shored up and get the foundation stuff going....
The place is pretty much stink free now. The upper floor thats been gutted and sprayed with the oxidizing sol smells fine. The bottom floor the same and half of the middle floor (the back half) smells fine too. Unfortunately the front two room and entryway still smell like a dirty rat cage....I think I am going to have to do some demo on this floor to open up some walls to get at the hidden rat stink.
Speaking of demo we've been interviewing demo guys to take down our chimney and haul away a major amount of dirt from the back and side yards. Its my dream to get the exterior grade at least an inch below the bottom plates where right now its 2" above. Luckily the soil is super dry and sandy so it should be quick work with a bobcat. ALL the hauling demo guys in the SF bay area are Brazilian-none of them are licenesed contractors either. Actually I am having trouble finding a licensed contractor to do this kind of work...weird...
We think we've got the kitchen design narrowed down also check it out.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/05/our-final-kitchen-plan.html
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 5/31/2007 6:12 pm by madmadscientist
--- Not like any of you are waiting on the edge of your seats for these updates ---Yes we are!Actually this thread is one of the ones I'm always checking. Thanks for the update.Rebeccah
Hi Rebeccah,
Well we gotta get our butts in gear cause escrow closes on our West Oakland house at the end of June. We got so much stuff that we are renting a 20' shipping container to put my car and all our halloween and metal shop stuff in while the foundation is being done....if it ever gets started...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
"Going back and forth with the engineer too much for my taste. "
Who is your structural engineer? I know a good one in Alameda.
If by good you mean he figures out reasonable solutions that are buildable without titanium I-beams then I might like to contact him. I want to re-work the roof framing a bit in the attic (remove the non strucural framing and move up the collar ties and reinforce a poorly built dormer) and would like some input from an engineer. I am not going to need extensively drawn and engineered plans but more than a sketch on the back of a napkin.
The guy I am using now is Dan Szumsky which is the pet engineer of my concrete contractor Jim Duvall of Duvall Construction.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That's interesting that you're using Duvall- they're doing the concrete on the job I'm working on right now. They seem like good folks.
Be well,zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
well you will have to tell me how it goes with them.
If you've met the foreman Russ tell him Dan and Irene from thunderdome say Hi and tell Jim to return my damn phone call.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Yeah, I've met Russ, briefly. I don't think I'm going to be seeing much more of them for a while though- one little basement slab to do on this house still, but all the major concrete work is done.
Thunderdome, eh? The tile guy, Jay, on this job is a burner too. He regaled us with stories one lunchtime. Sounded like an experience.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Thunderdome, eh? The tile guy, Jay, on this job is a burner too. He regaled us with stories one lunchtime. Sounded like an experience.
Ask him if he's ever been to our camp and fought in the dome stories about the DeathGuild-Thunderdome camp are always fun to hear...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
So funny. The other day I was thinking of posting here to ask what the latest was.
be on time The roof was the soundest part, though a good deal warped and made brittle by the sun. -Thoreau's Walden
mad-
What is directly above the kitchen?
— estimating the pecuniary value of every man's labor at one dollar a day, for if some receive more, others receive less; — so that he must have spent more than half his life commonly before his wigwam will be earned. If we suppose him to pay a rent instead, this is but a doubtful choice of evils. Would the savage have been wise to exchange his wigwam for a palace on these terms? . Parolee # 53804
Above the kitchen is about 50/50 behind the knee walls in the upstairs master bedroom and the end where the stove is, is below the master bath.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I have not looked at the pictures, but I can tell you one happy accident I had. Due to difficulty attaching upper cabinets along one wall, we ended up with a section of counter that did not have upper cabinets over it. This was great! Working on a counter with no uppers is really nice.
Okay here's another update on the house.
We settled on a demo-hauling guy and this week they are going to take the chimney down and do some serious re-grading of the lot. Grade starts at about 2" above the bottom plates and slopes up about a foot or two over 35' from there. After the initial junk haul we get charged per load of clean dirt he has to haul away. This seems pretty normal for any really old house. 100+ years of organic matter accumulation will do that. We want to take it down far enough that the wife can add back 6" of compost to make the soil really healthy. Luckily the soil is really sandy and super easy to dig up. I'm guestimating that hes probably going to haul away like 40 cubic yards of dirt or more.
SWMBO had an idea but I am not sure how possible it is. She thinks that after the house is up on cribbing that they should just raise it 6" and pour the foundation wall that much higher. Instant 6" more headroom in the downstairs... sounds like a good idea to me but can they raise an entire house 6" evenly? It would be nice to raise it 6" while leveling out the floors.
We are getting a bit bummed out about the level of stink still in the house. I had to gut a couple of walls that we were not planning on because of the giant rats nests behind them. The place looks clean but the stench was coming from behind the walls... Here's a blog post with lots of disgusting pictures of rats nests and me in my Christmas colored work clothes...
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/06/rats-or-yay-our-dream-home.html
That's it for now.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
>..but can they raise an entire house 6" <
You can raise it 60' if the budget will allow it. 6" sounds like a real good idea especially if you're having drainage/grade issues. May want to be sure that's enough but not too much to change the look/feel of the house.
I wouldn't sweat the rotting sills with a lift in the near future
Thanks for the updates.
You can raise it 60' if the budget will allow it. 6" sounds like a real good idea especially if you're having drainage/grade issues. May want to be sure that's enough but not too much to change the look/feel of the house.
Just got off the phone with the contractor that will be doing the work. He likes the idea of raising the place 6" says it will make the drainage issues easier and of course they will not have to excavate out the six inches. One thing he is not sure about is if we can sneak it by the city or not. Alameda is pretty strict about messing with the structures but heck its just six inches man...with the regrading how are they even going to notice....famous last words I am sure. But probably easier to ask for forgiveness later than permission up front.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
>with the regrading how are they even going to notice....famous last words I am sure. But probably easier to ask for forgiveness later than permission up front.
Well . . . . when you're announcing it to anyone in the world who has an internet connection . . .
My friend Matt in San Jose raised his two-storey Victorian enough to put another floor under it. He did it himself, including the hand digging...the man's amazing.He also attempted to do some unpermitted work bec the permits were taking so long to go through the process and he wanted to get going. He got nailed, but good. I don't see why you should have to 'sneak' it by the city, seems like a small change compared to what he did, while the consequences of not behaving in your neck of the woods are rather substantial.
Now you are comparing apples and sky scrapers I think. I just want to go up 6" not 10' for an entire new floor...
I'll be in this week to talk over this stuff with the planning dept and see what they have to say about it.....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Well, you asked if it COULD be done...yes, piece of cake to go up only 6". I remember they were living in this house still while it was up on cribs (13 of them, IIRC). I visited them during this time and there was a bit of sway on the top floor when a person walked across the room...kind of like having mini-earthquakes. =[ He also added another floor at the top for a rooftop garden with huge oval windows he scored out of a school. As i said, Matt's amazing. His wife complained to me that she came home from a business trip and found he'd added four rooms on to the back. (see attachments) He does exquisite work, as well as a lot of it.Edit: i mislabeled the "schiele rear before" shot. It's actually the front of the house. The doorway on the lower left enters the floor he added underneath the original house.
Edited 6/5/2007 12:33 pm ET by splintergroupie
Wow that's a nice house and it looks like your friend Matt does nice work. Is that real slate or slate-like tile?
He did all that himself? Does he have a real job too or what? Yea, wow that guy must work like he is possed to do that all himself...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
You're "restoring a sinking foundation" not raising the house 6".
They are gov bureaucrats. They all have the power to say no, saying yes is a career risk. You gotta shovel enuff sheet their way they don't realize they are saying yes.
Joe H
You're "restoring a sinking foundation" not raising the house 6".
Yea that's pretty much what my foundation guy is saying-that and the 'we had to level the house out excuse, and the 'we seriously regraded' excuse.
Here's one concern that he had. He's worried that we are going to regrade the lot too much and be to far below the neighbors lots. From what I can tell all our surronding neighbors lots have the same problem of the grade being too high and thier grades slope towards their houses. On our small side yards we will probably end up being like 3" below their grade level. On the 'larger' 35by35' back yard we will probably be more like a foot below the neighbors grade (at the far back end of the yard) if we start at the bottom plate and slope the ground gradually out.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I don't remember weather you have a house mover to raise and shore your house. Those contractors in this area are experienced with the different jurisdictions and how much leeway you have in "leveling/raising minimally". Also Cali might give you better advice about Alameda. I had mine leveled, but in retrospect for various other reasons it would have been more cost effective to raise it 6". In any case do it officially so you don't wind up on the wrong side of the 'system'. Bay Area building/zoning departments are becoming much more savvy. If you don't have a house mover, Phil Joy is well regarded, as is Fisher Bros. I used Mike Rogers. I gotta get back to work...
madmadscientist, Rather than 6" (and especially if you are concerned about drainage) measure the fronts step rise and go up in that increment.
Raise it 2 increments and haul dirt in not out.
"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
BE careful about hauling dirt "in". People in my neighborhood did that to amend the soil, and raised the grade. Now dirt runs over the top of the retaining wall, is right up to the edge of the sidewalk. Worse is the dirt over the wall/footing joint on the carriage house.Changing grades has an impact on everything and everyone around you. Be conscious of all the impact.
Yea I hear what you are saying . We are going to take a ton of the dirt out and get the correct slope for the lot and then add back in a half tone of compost to get healthy soil and not have the super lowest yard on the block.
The six inches is the height of the steps in that part of the fron staircase.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Just did another blog post while I was waiting for the termite inspector to finish up. Its all about the condition of the floors in teh new house and I would appreciate any helpful comments as to if they can be saved or what.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/06/floors-of-our-house.html
Thanks,
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Here's a question for y'all. Why, why, why in the world would they put fiberglass insulation in the interior walls in the house?
I put insulation in interior walls to absorb sound.
I might leave a loop of wire if I thought I might want to move the receptacle out at a future date. For instance if I thought I might be installing a window seat at a later date (and the receptable goes from being in the wall to being in the window seat). I have no idea if doing so is allowed by code (probably not). YIKES! That looks like bare wire in the closeup! Scary!
View Image
Looks good, keep giving us the updates. You're making good progress (even if you don't think so). Be a big milestone past when you get the foundation fixed.
[edit to add]
Is there any way you could put a custom vanity in there to fill that space currently to the left of the vanity?
View Image
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
Edited 6/6/2007 6:07 pm by JohnT8
Hi John,
That's an idea a custom made vanity to fill the weird space. I was thinking maybe something like a bench seat there. There is like a 1.5' between the vanity and the wall at the front and ~3' at the back.
Yea it was a bare wire that sizzled when it got wet...
The engineer is supposedly done with the plans and I'll get a chance to look at them tomorrow. Now I've got to redraw all the plans I made for the house (because of a hard disk crash) and visit the ladies at the planning dept to get the permit process started. Don't know if we are crazy but we are seriously hoping to get the foundation done before the end of August I'm hoping July even...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Got the plans from the engineer yesterday...he just thru them over my front gate...I have to tell ya that I am losing patience with this guy. I sent him an illustrated list of changes/questions and asked him to call me after he had read it to make sure we were on the same page...he read it missed half the stuff I had questions on and went right ahead and redrew the plans wrong. I get that engineers are not typically super well socialized but this lack of back and forth is making the process take much longer than needed...
Had the pest-termite-dryrot inspection yesterday also. He didn't find anything that I didn't already know except that we have an infestation of powder-post beetles!!! They only appear to be in one spot in the bottom level ceiling and surrounding area. The reccomendation was to tent the entire house and fumigate to the tune of ~$4000!!! I'm not convinced that a local topical spray won't cure it... does anybody have an opinion on that?
The planning desk dealt our schedule a major blow also. We need to re-enclose in an area of the house that was enclosed originally. There is a foundation there and a slab. That does not matter though according to them. The enclosed area is ~90 sq ft. which is 10sq ft above the limit and its going to require a 'Major Design Review' which is a process that requires at least 30 days!!! That's after I submit every stinking piece of supporting information....arrgh!!!
The grading is going well we discovered a nice brick patio under about a foot of dirt which is going to change how we grade the backyard. The soil here is just crazy...I've never seen anything like it. Its a super fine sandy powder almost. Super easy to dig in and doesn't hold water for beans.
That's it for now chimney is coming down this weekend.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That's an idea a custom made vanity to fill the weird space. I was thinking maybe something like a bench seat there. There is like a 1.5' between the vanity and the wall at the front and ~3' at the back.
My fat a$$ likes more than 18", but that is just me. I don't know if custom vanity really describes what I meant. Basically extend the counter over to the wall and put open shelves (for towels & such) under that odd shaped section. So while the countertop would be an odd shape, you could still use a regular vanity (the word "custom" has an ugly --expense-- ring to it).
But firstly... You're actually there and have a better idea of what would work
And secondly... Sounds like this bathroom isn't even on your top 20 for current things to spend brain cells on. So you have plenty of time to decide on benches, vanities, or what not.
Got the plans from the engineer yesterday...
I assume you've already spent too much time and $$ on this yoyo to want to bring in someone else?
That's it for now chimney is coming down this weekend.
LOL, you're lucky I don't have dw's email address. I could whisper in her ear, "saaay, those weathered chimney bricks sure would make nice pavers...". And next thing you know, you're outside wacking mortar off 5000 bricks. :)
The planning desk dealt our schedule a major blow also. We need to re-enclose in an area of the house that was enclosed originally. There is a foundation there and a slab. That does not matter though according to them. The enclosed area is ~90 sq ft. which is 10sq ft above the limit and its going to require a 'Major Design Review' which is a process that requires at least 30 days!!! That's after I submit every stinking piece of supporting information....arrgh!!!
Just keep repeating to yourself: "I love working on old houses. I love working on old houses..."
I like your posts. For some reason I always feel better about my own project after reading about yours ;)
jt8
"You live and learn. At any rate, you live." -- Douglas Adams
Hope yer not saying misery loves company. snork*
be 'course been there done thatUnder the most splendid house in the city is still to be found the cellar where they store their roots as of old, and long after the superstructure has disappeared posterity remark its dent in the earth. The house is still but a sort of porch at the entrance of a burrow. -Thoreau's Walden
Hope yer not saying misery loves company
Heck, I'm walking in the park smelling daisies in comparison.
jt8
"You live and learn. At any rate, you live." -- Douglas Adams
mad-
Just keep saying...
It's a work of love
It's a work of loveUnder the most splendid house in the city is still to be found the cellar where they store their roots as of old, and long after the superstructure has disappeared posterity remark its dent in the earth. The house is still but a sort of porch at the entrance of a burrow. -Thoreau's Walden
I think that will be my new mantra I'll chant when I get aggravated with things...It just seems like the money is flowing away from us pretty fast without a lot to show for it....plus I just want to get to work fixing the place up but all the dang hoops the city is making me jump thru....that and it still stinks in part of the house and I can't figure out where its coming from....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I've an old place that always had a pecular smell to the house, not a stench but just unique.
When I finally ripped into it and demoed everything but load support framing and clapboard siding I discovered that the cause of the smell were generations of old bumblebee nests that were found between the studs over the tops of the old windows.
Who'd of thought.Under the most splendid house in the city is still to be found the cellar where they store their roots as of old, and long after the superstructure has disappeared posterity remark its dent in the earth. The house is still but a sort of porch at the entrance of a burrow. -Thoreau's Walden
http://www.ca.uky.edu/entomology/entfacts/ef616.aspI guess the main questions are a) whether or not the infestation is active, and b) how accessible the wood is for surface treatment."Instances where structural fumigations are warranted are when infestations have spread into walls, between floors, and other areas where access/wood removal is impractical."RebeccahEdit to add that according to this article, there's no time pressure to treat: "Powderpost beetles damage wood slowly ; thus, homeowners should not feel as though they must act immediately in order to preserve the structural integrity of their home. A "wait and see" approach is often desirable, especially when there is still doubt as to whether the infestation is active. "
Edited 6/8/2007 5:03 pm by Rebeccah
Thanks I just ordered a thing of the borate based spary on treatment for 20 bucks and am going to do that myself before spending $4000 on a fumigation. The 'infestation' appears to only be in one area and I'm not even sure if its recent. I did soak that wood with the bleach oxidizer solution so maybe that got em already?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
How does the planning dept know there is 90 foot of house missing? They have the original blueprints?
If the engineer won't listen to you and what you want, why are you paying him?
Tell him to take a hike, it's your house and your money.
Joe H
How does the planning dept know there is 90 foot of house missing? They have the original blueprints?
Naw they asked me before I knew better and said it was 6by15 but they have not seen any actual blueprints of it. I think I'll tell them that I mis-remembered it and that its actaully 6 by 13' for 78 sq ft.....
If the engineer won't listen to you and what you want, why are you paying him?Tell him to take a hike, it's your house and your money.
I'm using him because the foundation guy I like/trust uses him. I'm going to give him another chance with me forcing him to communicate. It'll still be faster than me breaking in a whole new engineer.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Big mistake in CA telling the truth to any gov agency.
Tell them you have found it was part of the hidden patio, tell them something other than the truth.
I'm using him because the foundation guy I like/trust uses him. I'm going to give him another chance with me forcing him to communicate. It'll still be faster than me breaking in a whole new engineer.
How is it going to be faster? He refuses to listen to you, and doesn't care what you want done. You think he is going to change? Get rid of him and hire somebody new.
Tell the new guy what you want and tell him that is all you want. You're a Physicist, you oughta be able to deal with this?
Tell engineer #1 he isn't getting paid and why. Tell your concrete guy what's going on and why you can't use his pal.
Joe H
Here's one concern that he had. He's worried that we are going to regrade the lot too much and be to far below the neighbors lots.
Are you avoiding that issue by adding the 6"?
By the by, you might fire off an email to one of the SYSOPs to see if they can bump your thread to the Photo Gallery. Less chance of getting buried in there.
jt8
"One of the true tests of leadership is the ability to recognize a problem before it becomes an emergency." -- Arnold H. Glasgow
It's not real slate, but the edges are chipped/eased, like slate would be, so it doesn't look hokey. Matt's driven, but more like an artist than workaholic. He hires concrete poured, but i can't think of much he doesn't do himself. The 99 CY of dirt he hand-shoveled out of the basement became adobe bricks (i was in on that way-cool project). In the mislabeled photo (schiele rear before), the gable over the bay is a sunburst made of marble. He;s salvaged a lot, then turns to match finials, balusters or whatever;, does stained and leaded glass; is an excellent faux painter; an excellent framer; does the Italian landscaper/gardener thing well; had the good sense to marry an incredibly smart women who was in banking at the time (HP now) when he was eking a living on 38 cent/pound chickens in Fresno 25 years ago. I guess she knew a good investment. <G> Funny story: they water company (IIRC) owned a lot of old houses they were in the habit of bulldozing, so Matt would find out where their next victims were, then go in on the sly and gut them of trim, doors, etc. They could never catch him, but they were afraid he would get hurt and sue them, so they made him a deal, some sort of made-up position like San Jose Salvage Consultant. He was delighted to salvage at will, and a lot of good materials got saved before the city came to its senses and started preserving those places.
Splintie, any more shots of that roof?
Joe H
I have one more of the flue chase. He turned all the drop finials out of scrap redwood, too.
Right click on the thread number (upper right corner of the message); copy; paste into new thread. Voila! The beam span thread:
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=88740.1
or 88740.1
Parolee # 53804
Have we had an update lately? I'm losing track of the threads spinning off of this oen.
jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Sorry I've been out of town on business and have not updated y'all.
Nothing very exciting to share unfortunately... Just a lot of cleaning...so so much cleaning...so sick of cleaning...and it still smells like rat urine in some spots...
I'll probably be bouncing idea's off y'all about the design of the kitchen and master bathroom-bedroom.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The plinth is the style of base my tub sat on, a solid, oval-ish ring instead of feet. It's also sometimes called a pedestal. Like your claw feet, it is removable. Google has lots of images under either search term combined with "bathtub". Mine was a darling, little 4-1/2' footer, rather rare.Remove the drain - my buddy says that most cheap refinish jobs fail bec the water gets under the paint where the drain was simply masked off. The most important part of the project is getting the porcelain completely, excruciatingly clean. My friend used to scrub it really well, rinse, then use muriatic acid. He's changed to a different franchise that uses a proprietary product now, i'm not sure what. The glaze was pretty shot on my tub, which i figured was A Good Thing, more 'tooth'.I didn't need to use any Bondo, but it's what my friend uses for building up. I had him do an old sink for me before i got my own spray equipment, and he built up the eroded area around a drain with it. 22 years later, it's still in use in the house i sold.I've done some car repainting, and there's also a filler that comes in a tube for pinholes, no mixing. I thought it was just too easy to sand level, but in a very small area of pitting such as old porcelain gets, it would be the bee's knees.I used an auto paint primer, can't remember much about brands now, though. I saw one at Lowes, advertised it would stick to marble...might be good? The topcoat was pure white, which came out blindingly bright, a little unporcelain-y; i would consider toning it down just a tad if i do it again. Wet sand lightly but evenly between coats, as usual.On the outside, i sprayed a primer right after stripping, so it wouldn't get a chance to rust at all. I sprayed a latex on top of that. I rented that place out before selling it, and the paint still looks like new, surprisingly. Then you can turn some marble cups on your lathe in your new shop for under the feet...loverly!
Edited 4/10/2007 7:59 pm ET by splintergroupie
The place is yours. Cut away!
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I'd have written the same thing word for word if you hadn't already!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'm with you mostly on this one too Doug. Mad's doing it for the betterment of his family and his life.
Everything we do can't be about a $ sign.
Tim's been there done that, he just forgot. It's a sign of aging;~)>[email protected]
WHICH content will be free, of course; WHICH content will require registration; but WHICH content will be available only to members of FineHomebuilding.com.???
"
86536.95 in reply to 86536.58
I think in spite of a negative opinoon, you should stay involved in this one. Your opinion is based on fact and experience. The OP can temper that to his local area. He is going to need advice like you can give.
Just keep in mind, he is doing this to live in - not to flip nor to rent."
Piffin , Im sorry. I dont see any thing there honestly. I would have never slammed it otherwise. I would not have bought that house to redo. If I had of bought it I would have shuffled it to another person for some quick cash if I could have stole it first. I dont buy houses with the wood resting on the ground either.
If he can get 100 grand profit after cleaning it out , Id run with the money. Hows that ?
What do you see there ?
It looks awful tall and skinny to me . Wood windows . Probably not a stich of insulation. The air in that house would change every 5 minutes. High ceilings. You and I havent walked it so who knows if its straight . You know it needs rewired and its three story. I dont see a set of HVAC units and really doubt if there is any. I guess people there dont need them , I dont have a clue . Still I see lots of work in the pictures. Kitchen and bathrooms , plus the kitchen is not big enough nor the bathroom I saw. I dont even know how many it has right now .
I guess the main thing that bothers me is the price of contractors there . He cant do that house by himself. If a house like that costs 800,000 , they arent giving labor away in that area. Im guessing somthing like 100 per hour per man. Mebbe IM too low considering the prices. Im thiking at those prices , how would labor live with in driving distance ? Theres no telling what an electrician and a plumber would charge. Thats another thing btw. Its probably orangeburg .
Tim
Edited 3/4/2007 11:36 pm by Mooney
--- Pay no attention to Mooney. He lives in a place that no one wants to move to and he has no idea what the Bay Area market is like. ---That's what I was going to say. :)Rebeccahedited to add: Well, I don't know about where Mooney lives and whether or not anyone wants to move there, but I do know he doesn't know about the By Area market.Anyway, if it weren't for the fact that I'm trying to get a job in southern California so I can move there, I'd be quite envious of you right now. Alameda's a very nice place to have the most cosmetically unacceptable structurally sound house around.
Edited 3/3/2007 8:12 pm by Rebeccah
Thanks Rebeccah,
Check out this hilarous add I put on Craigs list for a realtor. We've already had two call and one person looking to buy it!
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/rfs/287993866.htmlDaniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Cute house and cute and effective ad.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
the neighbor told us that after the guy died the grandkids came in and filled up a big dumpster with just the pure trash. It looks like they were organizing the valuable stuff in the upper least stinky floor.
We've got the neighbor lady looking out for us and is going to tell us if they show up and try to loot the place while its in escrow....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Whew!When I was a volunteer fireman, we responded to a fire call in the middle of the night where an old man had set his matteress on fire smoking in bed. It turned out later from autopsy that he had died from heart attack while smiking so the fire was incidental to that.But at the time, the house was filled with smoke and almost no flame. We were searching for him with airpaks and feeling out way in black air so thick you could literally not see a thing even with the flashlights. Set light down and it was lost!Anyway - it was the next day before we could understand why it was so hard to feel around. There were newspapers, magazines, tools boxes, trash and what have you stacked to the ten foot ceilings! Honestly, it had to be more effort to arrange the stacks that high than to just haul it to th edump! One little narrow path thru it all from the bed he slept in to the kitchen and bath. The bed was in what used to be the livintg rm. Upstairs - we won't talk about that!Thank God he had no pets - not even rats.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
The Fireplace is interesting. There is a brick fireplace that goes from the bottom floor all the way up thru the roof. Walls were built around it so that it is incased in walls (I think that this is original) and those walls are like 2' deep. That mantle in the picture is the original mantle but he removed it and stored it in the ground floor. The fireplace was originally in the room thats the kitchen now. Now its just used to hold a couple of flue pipes from the several gas heaters in the house.
Not sure what we are going to do with the fire place. I wouldn't be against demolishing it. That two foot deep wall on both upper stories would be a great place for built-ins and I could use the extra space for a wire and heating and plumbing chase.
The house does not have central heat and we have decided how we are going to do that yet...not a task I am particularly looking forward too.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
There is a fireplace not sure if we can use it or not or if we really want to. We do not have much land by most standards but decent for this town.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
We checked over the house again today and all the plumbing works on all three levels adn so do all the outlets. We are not going to have the place done in three months. We just hope to have it de-skanked and the rough demo done leaving a couple of rooms for us to live in while we fix up the other parts of the house. Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
with a old house,lots of demo work,i would be concerned about living there with the kids,how old are they and be careful of lead paint which this house has and also possible asbestos in duct work, acoustic ceilings etc.
i can look back on some stuff i did that i didn't know any better on and go ,what was i thinking?
if the kids are 12 or younger the least i would do is rip everything i'm going to rip out and then clean,clean , clean.then i would walk in with a airless and spray a sealer on everything i could before i let them stay there.hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Yea I hear ya. We don't have a child yet...but the plan is to squeeze one out a year or so from now...so all your points are very valid we hope to have the ripping out and clean clean cleaning done well before that.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Daniel
Man you bought a house and its fully furnished, what more could you ask for!
Looks like most of the trim is there and the roof dont leak, hell the rest is just cosmetics, congrats.
Doug
Actually I 'think' all the original trim is there inside and out. All the original doors and hardware. Its going to look amazing once its all stripped and polished up. We are not sure about the foundation still if we are going to replace it or not...its going to be expensive....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Base and casings are there, but the ballusters have half been replaced with square stock and the cabinetry is 1950s. I think some windows are from the sixties - AL frame sliders.But overall sound house. I'm just getting started omn my walk thru but it looks like a lot I have worked on except for the extra pounds of filth. Yikes, I can smell it through the screen!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yea some of the balusters have been replaced. The cabinets and 'kitchen' area that I posted are actually in what used to be the formal dining room. All that stuffs getting ripped out and its going back to being a family room.
What's great for us is that the intricate east-lake hinges-doorknobs and such are all still there on the original doors. For an old-house dork like myself thats awesome.
Some of the windows have been replace with AL but those are in good shape and won't need to be replaced soon.
I do not belong to the camp of 'you have to replace all the perfectly fine working wood double hung windows' when redoing a Vic just because they are not double-paned fancy stuff. As long as the windows are in fine servicable shape I'll use external storms or something similar. My wife is going to have fun makeing screens for all of them though...
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Looks like a great opportunity so far.I'll be rightoverto shoot you if you destroy that beveled glass mirror and mantle top;)If all the windowes and doors work, I'm wondering what the clue is that you really need to replace the foundation. Just haven't seen it yet here...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
That's the original mantle we are told. We are not going to harm it believe you me. Not sure what we are going to do with it because the fireplace it surronded is gone. The chimney is still there but no fireplace?Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
If all the windowes and doors work, I'm wondering what the clue is that you really need to replace the foundation. Just haven't seen it yet here...
The back half of the house say the last 6' has a definate slope to it on the top three floors. In that area the bottom floor is wet so maybe its sinking or is damged from the water floor.
I don't know if it 'needs' a foundation in the strictest sense but the downstairs is only legal height in a small fraction. I would really love to dig down a couple of feet and get an 8' rough height so I could run the heating ducts and plumbing under the joists. With that bottom all being legal head height I would add another ~1200 square feet to the place legally and that would certainly bump the value way up.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
If the doors and windows all work fine, the clue that the foundation needs replacing is that it is brick and we are in earthquake country.We had another 4.2 last week. The next big one is expected within about 30 years or so.Rebeccah
He's also clarified that it is sagging at the back too. I know it's earthquake country, and I am out of my element there, but for a house that has stood in earthquake country for a hundred years already, I wouldn,'t worry myself over a brick foundation IF it didn't have other signs of decay or failure.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, I hadn't seen that post. It's sagging at the back and he wants to dig out the basement for more head room. And the sagging could be rot and/or termites. He hasn't mentioned if there's a pest report.Rebeccah
Congratulations! I think.
Why don't you call one of those hauling companies, see if they'll just come and haul all the cr@p away for you in a day. Maybe go as far as tearing out all the plaster, if it's all bad. It's so nice to get the dirty work done before you start living there, or you refinish some floors, etc.
Let me know if you're having work parties- I'm not too far away, and 40 hrs a week is never enough carpentry for me.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Since I am planning on selectively keep the stuff that's worth some money I think I am going to skip the hauling company.
The plaster on the top floor is all toast. I'm just not sure of the pros-cons to ripping out the lath with the bad plaster or replastering the lath if its in good shape?
I would ideally like to gut the top and bottom floors and scrub the hell out of the middle floor and live there while doing the other floors. the middle floor seems to have the most usable bathroom.
We are not going to have the time to refinish the oak strip floors before we move in. We can realistically carry the two mortages for more than three months.
Zak thats an awesome offer I'll be sure to let you know when we are having work parties!Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'd rip it out down to the studs if the plaster is bad. First of all, it will make it easy to do other work- wiring, plumbing, insulating, shimming/straightening walls. Second, it would probably be cheaper to hang blueboard and veneer plaster the walls than it would be to do a new 3 coat plaster job over the old lath, if you could find someone to do that.
It's good to not refinish floors right off the bat. I regretted refinishing mine before I tore out a lot of the lath and plaster in a house that I remodled. The nasty, meth filled carpet had to go first thing though.
You going to redo the foundation on this like you were asking about in the other thread?zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
You going to redo the foundation on this like you were asking about in the other thread?
Thats still to be decided. Once we clean it out and destank the place and gut the bottom floor then I can actually see everything and we will decide. We had to go so much over asking that our 'replace the foundation before we move in' fund is gone....
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'm going to be really interested in seeing the foundation issues once you get them exposed. There is a lot I will not be able to advise on since you are in seismic territory, but since you will be living there wjhen it happens, I have some creative experiences...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks Piffen we are not going to know much till the place gets cleaned out and we rip the bottom floor back to the studs. I do know the ground level outside the place is too high-very common on old houses- and the yard slopes towards the house.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Daniel,
Count me in too. BayAreaFest!! You can reach me through Breaktime email link.
Last 2 places I got were out of probate - not a bad way to go. Nothing like this though - OMG!!
Looks like an as-is. Still, did you get a thourough termite inspection? I have a friend in Alameda who had to rebuild a 2 story wall - completely consumed by the termites; only thing holding it together was the paint.
Wayne
The advantage to replastering is that you can get the existing grounds for the trim to line up correctly. If you pull off the lath, figure that you will have to rework the jambs and such of your trim to make it flush with new drywall.Plus plaster is much harder than drywall. In my opinion, plaster just plain looks better. Unless I do the repair my self, of course.Hopefully in that area you can find decent plasterers.
Call up one of those goofy TV shows. They will jump all over that project.
Call up one of those goofy TV shows.
They'd ruin the place.
Doug
Call up one of those goofy TV shows. They will jump all over that project
Screw that if Ty showed up at my place I'd probably get violent. Its not good to make a madscientist angry.....
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Congratulations, I'm sorry. Can you still get your money back?
For the filth part I've used with decent success:
-Lysol for Kitchens by the gallon w/loads of paper towels
-Oxyclean (amazing that it works just like the TV commercials)
-Softscrub on the porcelain & laminate counters (along with the Lysol) and if that doesn't work
-Ceramabrite on porcelain for the hardest stuff & small scratches
-Bleach (1qt) mixed with water (2qt), a little vinegar (~1 pint) & shot of dish soap (I prefer Palmolive (prevents the dishpan hands you know))(don't mix bleach & ammonia!! It makes a poisonous gas.) mixed in a garden sprayer for scum & also works on outside stuff too. Let it sit for 10-15 minutes & be sure to use eye pro. This potion will wreck any of the cheap plated brass though.
-Scothcbrite pads, red or gray grit (how do you define the coarseness of a scotchbrite pad?), help after the bleach mix sits for a while. Work good in combination wit the Sofstscrub & Ceramabrite. I've attached the bigger pads to sponge-mops before.
A good respirator properly fitted (skip the paper dust masks, they're just a false sense of security IMHO) would be a must if it were me dealing with dead rats & feces laden dust. I think I'd probably use a double layer of rubber gloves as well. And probably also toss in a face shield in combination with the eye pro to keep the yuck from splashing on my lips and face.
And the obvious, be sure to keep the ventilation going with doors & windows open.
A good respirator properly fitted (skip the paper dust masks, they're just a false sense of security IMHO) would be a must if it were me dealing with dead rats & feces laden dust. I think I'd probably use a double layer of rubber gloves as well. And probably also toss in a face shield in combination with the eye pro to keep the yuck from splashing on my lips and face.
We have the more honest dangerous particulate dust masks that I'm hoping are going to be good enough. The respirators with fresh cartridges get a bit pricey when you need six of them at a time.
Thanks for the cleaning tips.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
O. M. G.
Congratulations, Daniel.
Did you find a realtor for your old place yet?
And, if you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for this one?
Congratulations, Daniel.
Did you find a realtor for your old place yet?
And, if you don't mind my asking, how much did you pay for this one?
Thanks Rebeccah, we bailed on the 'hood its been five years and its just not getting better. I'm tired of the teenage drug dealers 'Mean Mugging' me from every other corner.
We have not found a realtor for our current house yet. We plan on lliving there for ~3 more months but it is our plan to start interviewing them right away.
I guess its a matter of public record....everyone on this board who is not from the Bay Area is not going to understand... The house was listed at $470,000 and we paid $100,000 over that.....still a good deal though as this place cleaned up is worth $800,000 easy.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
That's a steal, man. I mean it's a lot of money, but it's a big house. Couldn't get it for that price in berkeley.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
That's a steal, man. I mean it's a lot of money, but it's a big house. Couldn't get it for that price in berkeley.
Thats what we thought also..well us and 15 other people, it was nuts. The house went on the market on a sunday we saw it that sunday and there were like 20 people crawling all over the place! I think every cut-rate flipper in the area was there. We looked at Berkeley but the schools in Alameda are better and its safer and its just got this great small town feel to it. I hope that we are not going to be too weird for them....though I'm told Halloween is big there so maybe we'll fit in.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
That is a great price for a place like that in Alameda. I would have guessed much higher.
That is a great price for a place like that in Alameda. I would have guessed much higher.
Yea if it cleans up as nice as we hope and we can get it to smell nice we're set. We could probalby flip it for a quick couple hundred grand but we really want to live in the neighborhood and raise a kid there.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I'm from Vancouver Canada.
Yup, I do understand.
My piece of dirt and the house was just valued for tax purposes at $975000.00.
Now, dang it, I have to fix the place up. I live in a million dollar house.
Happy PurimQuality repairs for your home.
AaronR ConstructionVancouver, Canada
yeh but I still hold near and dear to my heart the saying,"a finished house, is a listed house". : )
"As I was walkin' - I saw a sign thereAnd that sign said - no tress passin'But on the other side .... it didn't say nothin!Now that side was made for you and me!" Woody Guthrie 1956
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
86536.49 in reply to 86536.39
yeh but I still hold near and dear to my heart the saying,"a finished house, is a listed house".
Im sure you are enjoying that right now after your long pull. Congradulations.
Tim
Thanks much Tim...but you know what I always say...lol
A finished house is a listed house
Soon to be sold..SPRING OF 08' !!!
Pray for interest rates to go down and house prices up that month....and oh yeh...to go down again a week later...lol.Yeh right.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFexyK8J1Iw
http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
You have to consider that most of us are doing things differently than you are. Most of us are not full time property investors. Fortunately for you that's the case because if we were all doing it you'd have a lot harder time. Anyway, Mad Scientist can possibly make some serious dough on that place using sweat equity and although it will not pencil out like one of your quick deals it could put him well ahead of where he is some years down the road. Alameda is an island in San Francisco Bay that is hugely desirable, right across from the city. As long as their is a booming commercial center in SF the property values in Alameda will hold up better than almost anywhere in the country.
Your sermon on investing for retirement and diversification is a worthy one to continue preaching. I need to follow that advice myself, be more like you.
Any time one of you can better your self with your talents and your tools then it reminds me of fish swimming . Its the way it should be and it should be natural.
Dad used to say that the one that wipes the sweat of the brow should gain the reward. Not because he said it and believed it , I too agree.
My FIL said about the cattle business ; Its the only business I know of that has to buy retail and sell wholesale. I too believe somthing is wrong with the picture.
The most important thing is that a carpenter start somewhere with somthing as long as he makes an imformed decision. If he doesnt have any thing but a dollar to start but has the talent and smarts he or she can succeed. So many are giving it a go with out the smarts or the talent listening to tv shows. In an earliar thread I showed a trailer house and a dump of a house for a place to start . True indeed it didnt gain many followers but its a start for some . I still answered several emails even if they didnt want to be idenified on the board for being interrested in dealing with dumps. While that amazes me I understand it . I showed where a trailer park with just 10 rentals would out do a carps wages with minimal investment that actually would stand on its own merits and offer hardly any money down except for the property. Even then the high ratio of profits would easily make the land payment . Just one example .
With construction slowing down and hearing some feed back on that subject , there might be more attention paid to the subject. I hope so.
Ill try to write some more in another thread and share some of the same thinking . Ive been really tired so Ive been sleeping through evening BT. The house I bought still holds important decisions and I will be asking for advice . Im sure I will gain the imformation I will need in those decisions and hopefully we will all gain from it .
Tim
I've read several experts on the topic say that the hardest part for most people is just getting started. What did that guy say... the only thing we have to fear is...
the only thing we have to fear is...fear its self
That sounds bold as all heck doesnt it ?
Edited 3/4/2007 4:21 am by Mooney
Wow - bidding wars on an as-is probate fixer! In a (relatively) slow market at that. Still for that price on the island in a decent neighborhood - you done good - congrats!
Good going, madman!
Andy is right that you are lucky it wasn't touched for so long. Don't worry, dead rats don't bite.
I don't know your local situation for such things, but I bought a large flatbed trailer, built 4' high plywood sides on it, and drive it to the dump myself. Yes, it's more labor, but it is also WAY less expensive for me.
Had the trailer for 9 years now and have used it countless times plus loaning it out even more times. It's been out of state twice without me!
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
I don't know your local situation for such things, but I bought a large flatbed trailer, built 4' high plywood sides on it, and drive it to the dump myself. Yes, it's more labor, but it is also WAY less expensive for me.
Yea thats an option we have a 12' flatbed truck with 4' high plywood walls. I have not yet started to investigate the different hauling options. I really want to get it done quickly and to me that means a giant dumpster out front where we could load all the crap into in a weekend. Since the wife and I both have 50-60 hour a week type jobs the weekends are the only time we are going to have to do a lot of the intial work.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
That makes all the difference. You can't do everything.
"Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd."
~ Voltaire
FYI, it's generally much cheaper to dump in Richmond than Berkeley, especially for concrete.Rebeccah
Just be sure that you either do the dumping yourself or are absoultely sure it's a reputable firm. If you haven't seen the illegal dumping stories lately - not pretty and you get all the penalties when they dig through the pile and trace it back to you.
Hello wrudiger,
I'm going to answer all your posts here to save a skosh of space.
Yea the bidding war was insane and caught us off gaurd. If we wouldn't of had the inside track and got some insider info on what the highest bid was we wouldn't even of made it to the second round of bidding.
We are probably going to rent the giant dumpster and then pay day-laborers to fill it. That way we can remove the most about of junk at once and it will all be legal.
Sure west coast break-fest. Theres a good sized park across the street y'all could pitch tents in!
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
time is important. Hasbeen just drives across town with his dump trailer in thebackend of Colorado.But for you - snaking through city traffic with a dump trailer all day or working onyour house while a trash company charges you for hauling....i'd take the alter.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
It looks like a place to throw perfectly good money.
If I were you I would go ahead and throw up if thats what it takes for you to feel better . Its going to be a money pit . I hope you have lots of it to feed it .
Then if you keep it , it will eat like an aligator from your wallet .
Congradulations. You now own an own a reptile .
Best thing you could do now is just sell it like it is and that would keep the loss to a minimum.
Tim
Wow that's a negative outlook. We have already rehabbed one victorian so we have some idea of what its going to cost. The house went for significantly under its market value even though its a pit. I'm pretty confident that if we hauled all the junk out and throughly deskanked the place and did a cheap-o home despot rehab I could sell the place for $800,000 in a heartbeat. Hell I already have one serious offer from a friend for just that.
The difference in price between where I am living now and the new place is so great that we could never really afford a place like it if it wasn't in this kind of shape.
I must not be totally crazy as there were 15 other offers on the place, most of them from contractors making all cash offers. The final five were us and 4 contractors who all bid about the same amount over asking.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Negative ?
Yall must be hard up out there .
Negative is what you bought.
How long have you been in the trades?
How many years have you been in the real estate business ?
Im working on a flip I just got and Ive had my dobber down thinking it was bad .
It is a lot worse than yours by far but theres a lot more in the end to hold on to.
I like your spunk .
Tim
Hello Tim,
Yea we are neither of us in the trades. But we have done this before.
http://madmadscientist.com/galleries/house/index.htm
We are not planning on this as a quick-flip kinda thing. We hope to be able to clean it up enough and have the rough demo done in three months that we can move in and live in a couple of rooms will renovating the rest. We don't plan on moving outta this place till after our kids are out of college.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
tim, lmao i know what your thinking. isn't it great to live in the midwest where you don't have 20 people bidding over asking price. i'm so glad theres no ocean around. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Hell Tim, they aint in Arkansas ya know!
They dont refer to the houseing market in San Fran as the second comming of the gold rush for nothing.
Put that house in your town and take away some of those zeros and you'd be trying to buy the damm place!
Doug
Put that house in your town and take away some of those zeros and you'd be trying to buy the damm place!
To much work Doug. Im getting to old for that kinda job. Id let the younguns have it . <G>
Honestly the house doesnt fit a rental or a flip. Most important for me is that it has to be either or both .
Ill try to get around to posting what I just bought but not in this thread.
We certainly dont operate on that many zeros . I will tell you I bought a house that was brand new 6 months ago that had a fire for 30 grand . 1300 sq ft in a new subdivision. I bought the house last week on a cash deal. It sold new last fall for 98,000 cash . 3 bd 2 bath 2 car garage, brick, fenced yard with storage building all on a curb and gutter new street. Ill put about 10 grand in it for it to show in new condition. Or 800 per month rental on 40,000 investment .
I havent heard the remodeling figures on this house featured. Not enough numbers yet.
Tim
"Hell Tim, they aint in Arkansas ya know!"
Btw, that was funny.
When Dan T came to see me he made mention we must be the inventors of blue tarps or somthin like that for roofing .
Tim
"Best thing you could do now is just sell it like it is and that would keep the loss to a minimum."You wouldn't re-wire, clean, spackle, paint and flip it?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No. I would have looked for somthing closer to the ground and easiar.
Tim
Check with some of the disaster recovery folks - they have various techniques: ozone machines, supposedly some of the new citrus cleaners are good for smells, etc.
With my mouth I will give great thanks to the Lord; I will praise Him in the midst of the throng. For He stands at the right hand of the needy, to save them from those who would condemn them to death.
- Psalms 109:30-31
Daniel,
You bought another old house. You must be crazy!
Good luck. Judging by the condition of the house you may be able to fix it up and make some money. Do you rehab houses for a living?
Mike K
Old House Remodeler
Aurora, IL
Hey Mike,
You still on the old-house-list? I tried to sign back up but I don't think its letting me?
Yes I bought another old house. This ones for us to keep (that's what I thought about the last one but having kids changes things).
I would never do this for a living. There is no way I could cut enough corners to make it profitable.
We should make enough cash on the sale of our original old house to make the switch to the nicer house in the nicer neighborhood easier.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
You say junk and trash all over? An old guy that went screwy lived there for a long time? And it was a palace way back then?
I've had some experience with this picture from a different perspective. Same exact situation. His house and heighborhood had gone to hell. His wife died years earlier and his mind went. Trash stacked up to the ceilings - everywhere. he was proud that he could live without water, phone, or gas. He'd pee into an old milk jug. Only flush once a week (city had turned off the water) with a 5 gallon bucket of water borrowed from the neighbor. My foot went thru the porch decking as I knocked on his door. Place stunk to high hell.
He was worth millions!
I would definitely NOT have day laborers clearing your place. Somewhere, someplace, that old man had a stash.
Better you find it than Jose.
I would definitely NOT have day laborers clearing your place. Somewhere, someplace, that old man had a stash.
Yea that would be great. Pretty sure the grandkids have already been thru most of the stuff. I'm hoping the stash is going to be the antiques-you really can't hide them under your coat.
We'll keep an eye on the laborers anyways. People here might villify me for saying outloud that I am going to use them. This has to be the perfect use though-dirty-grimy unskilled labor it'd be crazy to pay a carpenters wages for that.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Congrats. I tend to lean towards Zak's suggestion, tear down the plaster to the studs.
Looks like some mold goin' on in some of those pics. Lots of time to think about it now though. ; ^ )
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
After looking at the place again today we are going to rip most of it back to the studs so we can insulate and wire and plumb and make sure the framing is in good shape.
No mold really the place was pretty darn dry on the inside what looks like mold is just ...um...filth....Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Have to confess that I took a look while out walking the dog. Looks even nicer than the pics, the outside is in good shape Nice score. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
We were there this afternoon! We were taking a harder look and some measurements to figure out what we can do in the kitchen and what not. You should of hollered!Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Congrats.
Looks like it has potential...hopefully it will be a good investment and won't become a money pit.
Congrats. You are crazy, I hope crazy like a fox!
I would suggest using the same idea that fire repair firms use: soda blasting. I did a major fire job last spring and I was amazed at how fresh the house smelled after they soda blasted it. They later sealed all the framing with kilz. We had to hand paint any wood where we were putting new wood against old so every stick of old wood was kilzed.
Contact some local accident cleanup firms for ideas.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
What's soda blasting?
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
That's where you get a soda, shake it up real good before openning it, aim it at you buddy....and have a blast!
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Snork.
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
My version of that is when I open a soda before realizing it's pressurized from the ride home in the car, and it blasts me in the face.
Gunner, I wasn't there when they did it, but I think they sand blasted the place with dry baking soda. There were about ten or twenty empty bags in the garage. They might have blasted everything wet with a mixture of high pressure water and soda.
I don't know, but it was effective. I was dreading the thought of going in to do the repairs, thinking I was going to be filthy and stinky but it wasn't bad at all. We removed the entire back section of a quad level including all the joist, decking and upstair partitions. We had to replace the entire knee wall in the rear of the house at the daylight basement level and all in all it was decent work, which surprised me. Admittedly, the laborers who were in there doing the initial cleanup had a nasty job on their hands but we didn't get there till they had cleaned out the loose stuff and soda blasted everything and swept it all out.
blue"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
Sounds like a great way to handle the problem.
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
Thats interesting, soda blasting I'll have to look into it. Kinda like keeping an open box of arm and hammer in the fridge huh???Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Yes, it is interesting. I'd never heard of it till I worked on that site this year.
blue
"...
keep looking for customers who want to hire YOU.. all the rest are looking for commodities.. are you a commodity ?... if you get sucked into "free estimates" and "soliciting bids"... then you are a commodity... if your operation is set up to compete as a commodity, then have at it..... but be prepared to keep your margins low and your overhead high...."
From the best of TauntonU.
I just googled soda blasting. That's the ticket right there. Pretty cool stuff.
Think ya used enough dynamite there, Butch?
Congrats crazy home owner!
For me at least, there was nothing more exciting and motivating than getting a place for myself. 2 yrs ago we got into a 30's craftsman under the real estate radar in a hot market by searching neighborhoods and writing letters and contacting owners. Ours was a rental for 20+ years and needed similar work.
I suggest getting that 20 yard dumpster and 'hiring' a crew of friends fueled by Pizza and Beer (you provide) to clear the place for you so you can get in and do the real work of cleaning and renovating. 6 of us filled that 20 yarder in a day no problem and then I could get in to refinish floors, paint and renovate.
Anything you can do BEFORE you move in will put you miles down the road to renovation.
Cheers!
I bought a house once, papers were signed, The owner left a car and boat and tools, A man came by while i was in the back yard and started hauling things off, I ran over and stopped him, He said he was the father dang it, hes gonna take the stuff, I said i have no way of knowing who he is or what stuff belongs to who, He cussed me out and i told him take the old car if you wanna take something, He said dont touch that car, So now i have a car with no title no engine in my yard, I asked the police they said go to DMV, Theres a whole lotta paperwork to go through, Found out the father lived down the street and he had the same name, Somebody musta came in the middle of the night and towed that car and left it in the street in front of the fathers house, That was strange;)
Smells and smoke odor....
I purchased acetic acid, a gas mask and sprayed every wall, ceiling and floor of houses with oder issues. Before leaving, I place acetic acid in large pans in each room, closed up the house for a week. I used industrial acetic acid, instead of household white vinegar, (which can be used) at about 12-15%, about double the strength of household vinegar. This can be done on a room by room basis, if the rooms are sealed up with poly on the doors. This is slightly corrosive, so rooms should be empty. At 12-15% a mask is necessary (3m, charcoal), eye protection is necessary. Garden sprayer is sufficient, I have used power washers.
Sprayed directly on burnt wood , this kill smoke oder miraculously. Burnt wood needs to saturated. Power washers are great on lightly charred beans, as it removes all char, if pressure is high enough.
Unless your taking down the plaster walls..
While the house is in this shape,I would adivise to blow insulation in the walls. Houses of this age are generally balloon frame with no fire stops, blown insulation will stop fires from advancing..from first hand experience.
Wow industrial strength white vinegar. Where does one get that?
The house is not burned that I can tell but I'll keep this in mind for the de-stinking.
I'm guessin that doing this would be after the general through cleaning and this is a way to get the soaked in funk out?
We are guttting the top and bottom floors (hopefully if the city will let me) but the floors still need to be de-filthed!
On that note I hereby welcome any and all breaktimers to our house cleaning party this weekend! C'mon I know you all want to come!! But seriously if anyone wants to swing by the place just pm me and I'll give ya the adress we'll probably be there all weekend doing something.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Excuse the rambling....
If you search Google.com with acetic acid price or glacial acetic price , you will find it, also it is on Ebay. Some major photo shops and art stores carry it cheap. If you get the concentrated form be very careful until it is diluted; concentrated, a gallon would be plenty for a house, price varies. For safety, and in a rush, get gallons of white cooking vinegar from the supermarket. Placing a pan fill with it in a closed room, over a few days, works pretty good, it may be all that is needed. Do this after the general cleaning; add some vinegar to the cleaning agent you are using, (not to chlorine based cleaners, as, if the brain cell remember, this would release chlorine). If smell still exist after a few days, then spray the rooms with pure vinegar, some in a pan, close the rooms involved for a few days
http://www.printmaking-materials.com/printshop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=86&cat=Lithography+Chemicals+%26+Conditioners
http://lab-suppliesonline.com/acetic-acid-p-3976.html
Dead rats are tough, as they seem to die within the wall. As gross as it is, they need to mummify before the smell goes down, few weeks with the really big ones ( here in NYC, we get some good sized rats).
The last house clean out I did was my cousin's house, which was a gut job (rats, raccoons etc). We borrowed a 2" fire hose, connected to the city hydrant, and blasted the entire house..nothing like a 2" flow of water exiting via all doors. No damage to the floors or structure occurred.
If you not actually living in the house.....since you are going to gut, you would probably would do well renting a pressure washer with a cleaning agent injector. The floors will need sanding and refinishing anyway. This would work great on the basement too, as the high pressure can strip the basement wall of all dirt, mold and old paint (goggle are a must ! in the basement). Purchase or borrow a wet/dry vacuum to pickup water during spraying. If you use the washer, I would use a couple of decent size fans in the upstairs windows, running for a week to dry everything out.
If you gutting, make sure you create fire stops between the floors... from experience, this saved my parent's life and house. Replace all old wiring, and all piping, as old brass pipe becomes brittle.
Older house have larger 2x4s studs, allowing for thicker fiberglass batts (great), use poly sheets after the insulation install, as an added vapor barrier. Use 5/8 sheet minimum, as it will level out wall better, nasty part, you still need to shim studs out as old studs varied in size.
Sorry I can't come this weekend, my Lear jet is in for repairs<grin>. Actually I do find this type work fun, I miss home contracting work, I am a Network Consultants now and do not get much exercise
dont feel to bad, I found a great deal on a rental, i begged my wife to buy it, Of coarse i never finished my house holding to the law of carpenters with half done progects, I sat down with the bank wrote up a small 2d to do our kitchen, Paperwork to be done at closeing, At closeing they forgot my 2d and i did not have time to hold off, Boy was my wife mad but i never thought to hound dog the pros, From now on im gonna pay real close attention
I bought an old house had mold from leaks in the roof, the christmas tree was still up from 2 years ago, I took a pump up sprayer one part water one part bleach and sprayed the whole house down, left trays of bleach in every room as rats cant stand bleach, I think it worked too
I bought an old house had mold from leaks in the roof, the christmas tree was still up from 2 years ago, I took a pump up sprayer one part water one part bleach and sprayed the whole house down, left trays of bleach in every room as rats cant stand bleach, I think it worked too
Yep the pump up sprayer is a good idea. We've been using big spray bottles to wet everything down but they are slower than the garden sprayer thing.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 3/28/2007 2:44 pm by madmadscientist
I second the nomination of using a garden sprayer. The house I'm working on had mold issues. After scrubbing everything with detergent and a brush, I took a garden sprayer with a bleach mixture and sprayed everything.
The sprayer I used had an adjustable nozzle, so I could get it anywhere from mist to shooting a stream. Worked like a charm!
Keep them updates coming!
jt8
"We ourselves feel that what we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But the ocean would be less because of that missing drop."-- Mother Teresa
I once bought an 18th C. house from an ancient woman who liked cats--lots of them. She didn't like the cats to go outside. She didn't like neurtering her cats or giving them litter boxes.
The house was on the market for a long time, mainly because you could smell the cat poop and piss from the sidewalk...maybe even from just doing a drive-by.
A genius house restorationist/chemist told me I could waste my time on lots of soaps, detergents, and supposed odor-eating products, and then use his method, or I could just start with his method and save time and money.
He told me to get everything out of the house that I was going to chuck out and leave everything in that I wanted to keep. Then spray everything with diluted bleach and when it dried, spray it again. Do this over and over until it dries and the smell is gone.
Spray the walls, the floors, the ceilings, the fireplaces, the staircases...everything.
I can't remember, but I think it was after the fourth time, maybe the fifth, but when everything dried all the smell of the cats were gone. So was the smell of the bleach.
A final comment/question: What was the occupation of the last owner? Interesting how all the door casings are stained black just at hand height. Do you know if the previous owner was blind?
Do you remember what the dilution ratio was with the bleach and water? We are essentially doing the same thing right now with our bleach-water-white vinegar-pinesol mix while we are cleaning the surfaces. After its clean I'll spray the mix in the stinky areas. The place actually smells much much better now than it used to. There are a couple of places where the rats seem to of concentrated their bathroom activites, and those places still reek...
The previous owner was supposedly some sort of contractor. He had all the tools to thread pipe in the house still (I got to keep those). He was 90 when he died and I don't think he was working anytime recently. The black smudges on the door frames are from 10years of him touching them with his hands as he went from room to room. That's what grossed the women out the most. He was not blind but I'm sure his eyesite was not the best at 90.
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I used a one-quart, plan-atomizer spray bottle. I'd pour in a few inches of bleach and then the rest water. I'd soak everything in the house over and over. In my experience, cat smells much worse that rat.
Keep in mind that this is a pretty strong solution. I wore the same clothes everytime I did it. They got trashed/eaten away by the bleach. I also wore goggles
I wondered if the previous owner was some kind of mechanic...that would explain the greasy hand prints on the door casings.
Have fun with your house.
i went one part bleach one part water on the nastiest stuff
Hi,
Just decided to check this long thread and see what's up with all the posts, and thought I'd throw in my two cents for what it's worth. Have you ever checked the local Grainger branch or their catalog? They've got some reasonably priced cleaning chemicals that are designed for use in hospitals, schools, medical, and dental offices, that will eliminate malodors and disinfect,and deodorize. I've tried the TB Quat Disinfectant, and Kil-Odor Liquid deodorizer with Prozyme. They worked pretty good on two jobs that smelled really bad. One involved a dead dog under the front tire of a parked car in someone's garage. It had been dead at least two or three weeks. When I got there the same afternoon that I got the call, all that was left of the dog was skin and bones; all the fluids were gone. After I got the dog out and buried it, I poured a quart of the TB Quat and scrubbed it down, followed by the deodorizer. Did that a couple of times and the smell was gone. The other job involved kids using the bedroom closets for toilets, and the urine had soaked into the subflooring. The stuff worked there, too. You might want to check out the stuff.
My reply is going to be of a more general nature, so others can apply it to their 'favorite mistakes.'
First of all, get the trash out. All of it. Keep nothing, don't second guess yourself, don't hesitate. A better approach to a dumpster might be to rent a dump trailer, and cart the stuff to the dump yourself.
Step #2 is to now, that the place is empty, give it a thorough looking over from top to bottom. What you are looking for are the changes that were made to the place over the years. Walls added, plumbing moved, etc. Try to figure out the original layout of the house.
Step #3 is gutting the place, at least in part. Walls that were added will likely be the first things to remove. Any damaged, stained, or suspect plaster gets removed. Any accessible insulation gets yanked.
This step is part of the odor / vermin remedial. It also lets you get a closer look at the insides of the walls. You may find abandoned (live!) electric, dead-end plumbing, etc.
When this preliminary demolition is complete, fumigate. Then, live in it for a week or two. "Rough it" a bit, but not too much. The purpose of this 'camping trip' is to get a feel for the house, what works, and what doesn't. This will help you decide what remodeling needs to be done.
This short stay will likely identify things that you really don't like. Narrow stairways. Not enough electrical outlets. Sluggish drains. Using this information, you will be able to decide what utilities need work, and what changes to make. Remember, our lifestyle today is greatly different from what it was when this place was built.
Also, take a close look at the landscaping. More often than I care to admit, I see bushes that are so old that they need replacing .... and trees that are so large the roots are beginning to damage the foundation.
Once you have a plan, it's time to move out ... and work the plan. Get proper drawings made ... hire the contractor ... and get out of the way. Beware of change orders ... it rarely pays to second guess yourself. The 'cheapest' way to remodel might be to hand it over to a contractor, then depart on a cruise until he's done!
Hello renosteinke and thanks for the considered reply. Let me try to answer you in some way that'll make sense.
We've already done steps 1,2,3. We are redoing the foundation-slab and I'm going to have to reframe some of the attic to I think.
We are moving in to the middle floor probably next month, but we can't afford to move out again, we have to live their during the reno. But your advice makes good sense. We won't touch the middle floor till last and that will be after we've lived there a year.
I agree also about hiring a good contractor and staying out of their way. I've already got a good foundation guy and engineer lined up and I will gladly stay out of his way, well his and the roofers way...unless I hit the lotto soon we will probably be doing the rest of the work ourselves-with exception of the service upgrade from 100-200 amps.
My wife wishes we had landscaping. There's not even a tree on the lot...just blackberries and crabgrass. The lot has to be regraded so in that sense we can start fress with the landscaping...though it does appear that one of the neighbors trees that overhangs the fence is an avacado tree...that we won't mind because those damn things are expensive. If you coudl grow avacadoes and pomegranites from your yard you coudl make some money since around here the dang things go for a buck each-but I digress....
Thanks for the reply,
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Tell DW you're going to make the yard a virtual eden, but you've gotta get finished with the house first :)
jt8
"The lowest ebb is the turn of the tide."-- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
Daniel, maybe this'll work for you...
One way I keep my landscape costs down is to buy the shrubs and trees before I need them and grow them to larger sizes (aka more expensive). It takes space & time and a little start up costs for a drip systems & a timer (all from the BBs) but you can start now with small unshaped shrubs & grow & shape them in pots while your're doing other projects. Once it comes around to doing the landscaping you can plant larger & more attracive plants for a better price than what you could find at that time. Right now I've got about 100 trees & shrubs in pots (ranging in heights from 6in to 12ft) in an area roughly 30'x40' (probably smaller than that). Sources for the plants can range from the BBs, local or online nurseries, and cuttings from plants found during the daily routine.
That is a great idea. The backyard faces south and gets sun all day. It'll probably keep the wife's gardening addiction in check also...I'll have to pitch it to the wife. Only problem I can see is that this will make her try to plan out her dream garden way before we are ready for it and I need her to be able to make decisions on the kitchen and Master Bedroom first...
Daniel Neuman
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel - our friends are visiting; they sold their house on Buena Vista two years ago. She wants to know what street you're on?
Forrest
tell'em the big Victorian on Pacific at Sherman that the crazy old guy owned. The place with all the cars and full of trash!!
If you show them some outside pics from the blog they'll probably know it.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 6/12/2007 2:30 pm by madmadscientist
Thanks for the quick reply - you're right - she does remember it. Was this the one where the city cleaned up the yard a couple of times over the decades, and then leined the house to insure reimbursement from the heirs?
Forrest
Thanks for the quick reply - you're right - she does remember it. Was this the one where the city cleaned up the yard a couple of times over the decades, and then leined the house to insure reimbursement from the heirs?
Of course its that house haven't you been listening!?!?! :) Yea, cleaned it up-out, rebuilt the front steps and back porch (which are already rotting away...) and redid the electrical wiring-with the live wire behind the drywall.
Story goes the city couldn't get any of the 'good' contractors to take the job so they got the only one who would.....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
This was theirs -
http://www.idxre.com/idx/cpropertydetail.cfm?cid=397&bid=1&cpid=97520
View Image
Forrest
Edited 6/12/2007 7:33 pm by McDesign
Here's the replacement house they've got now in Chicago (it has a TOWER!)
View Image
Yeah, but Chicago weather!
Forrest
Edited 6/12/2007 7:41 pm by McDesign
Hey, hey, hey! Chicago weather isn't that bad. 'sides, if they are in the City, the lake actually moderates the temperature.Now for those of us in the 'burbs, on the other hand, WE suffer.Blue-eyed cicada found in Downers Grove IL!
That's a nice looking house in Chi-town. We've always wanted a tower too but those houses are even more expensive. Love that huge wrap around porch-probably great to sit out there in the evening when its hot...unless its like 100% humidity or something...or when those icy winds blow off the lakes in the winter and freeze things solid...
I'll take the Alameda weather anytime.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Okay here's an update on the house. Wife did a blog post on it which you can see here.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/06/level-ground-and-sort-of-skylight.html
My hauling guy says that he hauled out 120 cubic yards of dirt! That seems like a lot but the ground was ~2" above the sill plates and now its 2" below the sill plate.
The chimney is down and we have a nice stack of ye-olde-tyme bricks to make our driveway out of. The roof decking around the chimney is pretty dryrotted also. I had to open up another wall near the chimney that was also a giant rats nest. I've sprayed a ton of the oxidizer on the framing around where the chimney was and I think it is almost stink free. Now of course a room at the back of the house is starting to stink anew-I think it might be because it finally got hot here and that room faces south and bakes in the sun all day.
We 'discovered' that the main water line to the house is only 6" below grade!! It got yanked up by the bob cat but didn't burst and does not appear to be leaking. It does though have a huge kink in it. 6" is just way to close to grade so I know I am going to have to make it at least a foot deeper. I don't have time for that right now and am looking for a fast easy temp fix to unkink the line. I am thinking about cutting it on either side of the kink and using a 1" compression union fitting to tide me over till I can do it right? How does that sound to y'all?
Had the place termite inspected...he found a powder post beetle infestation in one area. He wanted 4 grand to tent and fumigate the place!! I bought some timbor on line for 30 bucks and will spray the effected area myself. 4 grand and he could only find it in one place no allover the house....
Move in day is next Friday....hope the place is ready....or at least stank free by then.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
move in is next friday! don't ya still have to jack the house up and put a foundation under it? i'd rent a apartment for awhile or something. sitting on the couch watching tv as the guy jacks my house is just a little to exciting for me. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Yea I'm not tickeled pink by the idea either but we don't really have no choice. I'm hoping that that they do all the jacking and utility extensions when we are at work...seeing this big (to us) house up on cribing and having to live there is going to be freaky for sure...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Still planning on making the foundation a hair taller?
jt8
"When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her but, alas, she was waiting for the ideal man." -- Alain
Yep that's the plan 6" I hope. Though the wife brought up an interesting concern. What do we do with the 2 existing exterior doors? Won't they be 6" two short now? We'd have to either reset them 6" lower somehow that looked original or add 6" to the bottoms or put a step up on the outside and a step down on the inside?? I'm leaning towards pocket hole screwing a 6" extension to the bottom of the doors and covering the gap with spackle and primer....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
huh????? your door thresholds should be at subfloor level.subfloor is going up with the house,if you jacked it 5' the subfloor is going with it.
if by chance the threshold is sitting on top of the old foundation wall,same senerio,the new wall will be flat and your still in the same place.
now the garage door could be a different matter since the floor is probably staying. i would just order a new garage door 7'6" tall or whatever and gain a little extra height that way. larryhand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
Unfortunately that is not our sit. The bottom floor slab of the house is already ~1' below grade. So there is a step down just inside the doorways. We want to raise the house up 6" by pouring the new foundation 6" taller and setting the house back down 6" taller than before. So now the doors will be 6" too short-if I don't have an exterior step up.
Here's a pic that shows what I am talking about.
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Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 6/22/2007 5:26 pm by madmadscientist
Put the extension on TOP of the door so the doorknob doesn't go up, or have to be relocated below the lock rail.
Forrst
Hmmm thats a good point. Though I don't know if having the doorknob 6" higher would be a big deal. By putting the extension on the bottom I don't have to reset the door either.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I just saw your post for the first time.....I redid a two flat in Chicago last year and couldn't help but post one of my pictures from it.....it says it all.
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Hey that looks familar. Did you remove the lathe too and then drywall? Sure is a pain scooping up all the plaster keys that fall behind the walls and down to the next floor if its balloon framed.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Yes, removed everything, all new electrical and plumbing, and raised the ceilings to 10', it came out absolutely stunning on the second floor. Moved the walls around a bit also, here it is from when I bought it to when I finished. We had a dumpster outside the window we would just shovel it into.
View ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageView ImageLooking back the other way:View ImageView ImageIf you want to see the finished product (which I never sold, just rent it out now), go to http://www.209marengo.com
Hey - great pix; super nice work. Love looking at before and after pix
Forrest - studyin'
That's super nice looking. Why did you fur down the roof rafters like that? Was it to get the room for insulation or was it a structural thing? You've also furred the walls out in some of the shots was that just to get a flat plane to screw the drywall to?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
5 days and counting till we have to move into the new place. We give up ownership of the old place midnite Friday. The movers are coming Friday morning and away we will go....
This weekend I cut out the kinked portion of the main water line and popped on a sharkbite fitting. I had to cut a little more than the fitting would span but we made it work...I'm going to pack dirt under the pipe and put a pressure treated 2by4 on top of it before I cover it the rest of the way.
Replaced the rotted out steps on the back porch. Wow its never been painted or sealed and its not pressure treated wood. No wonder way its rotting away.
Then we attacked the leaking toilet....got the toilet up and wow no closet flange...there was a 4" cast iron long sweep elbow stuck up in a hole in the floor with a wax ring kinda mushed around it. The toilet was sorta screwed to the subfloor from underneath. The floor around the pipe was soaking wet with 'stuff' and smelled wonderful. Luckily I had to enlarge the hole to fit the new 4' closet flange and that seemed to take care of the rotted edge of the subfloor. Got it all back together and it didn't leak....except for where the ancient flapper valve flange decided to give up the ghost after who knows how many years. The tank is weird its mounted to the wall and then there is a chromed elbow that attaches it to the tank. Not easy to take it apart and get it back together and not screw up the wax ring.
The wife spent most of the time cleaning the place up from the chimney demo and trying to get the kitchen organized and what not. She put curtains up in all the windows and it does make the place look less abandoned from the street.
Now that the main stank has been neutralized I can smell the more subtle stank that seems to be emanating from the walls. I don't think I sprayed the painted walls with the oxidizer sol enough. They look clean but they still have a vague stink in a couple of places. Oh and chipboard, soaks up rat urine like you wouldn't believe!!!! and it was used in place of drywall in several places.....
Here's a link to a post my wife did about it on our houseblog if you wanna see some pictures...
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/06/countdowns-on.html
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Makes me wonder if no flange was standard operating procedure back then.
I opened one once in an old victorian and all it was was a lead pipe with a slight oval meeting the stool wax without even a thicker edge that might serve as a collar.
be was was
What of architectural beauty I now see, I know has gradually grown from within outward, out of the necessities and character of the indweller, who is the only builder-out of some unconscious truthfulness, and nobleness, without ever a thought for the appearance and whatever additional beauty of this kind is destined to be produced will be preceded by a like unconscious beauty of life. -Thoreau's Walden
Edited 6/25/2007 8:43 pm ET by rez
Now that the main stank has been neutralized I can smell the more subtle stank that seems to be emanating from the walls. I don't think I sprayed the painted walls with the oxidizer sol enough. They look clean but they still have a vague stink in a couple of places.
If you have to, you can just buy the anti-odor primer paint and spray the wall cavities to lock in the smell.
5 days and counting till we have to move into the new place.
tick..tick...tick... I'm thinking things are probably pretty hairy right about now. Still on target?
I like that French door fridge especially if it is a drawer on the bottom.
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That storage container was a good idea. Best thing you could have done with stuff.
Lets see, if I had to camp out in a gutted house, I would want: toilet, shower, fridge, electricity (or course), some lights. A sink and stove would be plusses. Here in the midwest, the weather probably isn't going to cooperate though.jt8
"When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her but, alas, she was waiting for the ideal man." -- Alain
Yea the storage container was a good idea....we just have so much stuff and we are'nt crazy hoarder types either. Its the metal shop and wood shop and electronics shop and all the Halloween stuff and the burning man stuff....geez we have a lot of stuff.
Yea the frig is the LG with the bottom freezer with the tilt-out door thingy. Its also got ice and water in the door course I don't have it plumbed yet....we got a utility sink in the kitchen that we are going to use and a propane camp stove to cook on. I'm hoping to use the outdoor grill a lot while the weather is nice.
The anti odor primer stuff is a good idea. The parts that are stinking are drywalled and painted I just didn't spray the painted walls enough.
Went over today to give the place one last soaking with the anti-stink stuff.
Speaking of getting a soaking, I decided to get some 'cheap carpet' from home despot to put in real quick in the front two rooms...8 bucks a square yard times 40 yards gets pricey fast...I just cut and laid the carpet down didn't really 'install' it. It did instantly make the rooms look a heck of a lot nicer. When I was done I laid down on the carpet in the room that served as the kitchen-this was the most gag inducing room to begin with...and it smelled fine, just smelled like an old house not bad at all.
I've been packing-cleaning since 9am and damn am I tired..got a couple of hours let then its a quick shower and a couple (literally) hours of sleep before the movers get here at 9am....damn I'm tired...
This'll be my last update for a bit as we won't have internet access at home for a week or so.
Happy 4th Everyone!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Godspeed! It's all an adventure.jt8
"When I was a young man I vowed never to marry until I found the ideal woman. Well, I found her but, alas, she was waiting for the ideal man." -- Alain
So what's the news from across the nation? "I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived."- Thoreau
Hello All,
Sorry its been a bit since I've updated this thread as we've been super busy doing boring house stuff that's not building.
Finally got the engineer to provide me a set of plans (this if for replacing the crumbling brick foundation, digging down a bit and adding a proper slab and removing a fair amount of load bearing wall and replacing it with beams-posts) that I am happy with...only took two months when he initially promised 2 weeks. I turned the plans in last week and paid the extra fee for fast-tracking them and should hear back from them within 10 days.
Not that it will matter though as the planning review is going to take at least a month after I submit the packet...If y'all remember about how I need to enclose a 15by6' space at the back of the house (which was originally enclosed) to accommodate an interior stairwell and how if it was 13by6 it wouldn't trigger the major design review...well does'nt matter...because that side of the house is 2.5' from the lot line back there that's going to trigger the major design review anyways...at least they are letting me try to build there. Alameda CA does not seem to have a strict setback requirement which I find strange...
Doing the planning packet is super fun. I need to show exterior drawings of all floors of the house (including roof!?!?!?) on all four sides, showing existing and proposed. I need photos of the same parts of my house as well as photo's of all the neighbors houses that abut mine. Trying to recreate a crazy Victorian roof line in a 30 dollar home design program is insane...not sure yet how I am going to fake that...
So that's where we are at still in the getting permits approved stage and still cleaning the place up and setting up house....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Here's a couple of pics of what some of the rooms look like now...its still a bit like camping but the house is slowing getting cleaner.... I figure with our two cats walking on every dirty surface possible and getting filthy and then licking themselves clean and then pooping out the dirt that the house will slowly get cleaner all on its own ;)
Here's a shot of the 'kitchen' that the wife set up. The big fancy stove is not hooked up yet and is just basically serving as a counter top... thank goodness we got a new bigger microwave and frig. really helps to store the take out and then reheat it later.
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This is looking at the kitchen from the other end. We are using the utility sink as the kitchen sink and the washer and dryer as counter tops. They are not hooked up yet but they are going to need to be soon as I am running out of clean underwear! Those giant windows in the kitchen are great as the morning sun pours in thru them and I can eat my wheaties and read the paper without having to turn the light on. They will be nice in the winter too, I'm hoping that the sunlight coming thru them will help warm up the kitchen a bit...right now we have no central heat and who knows if we will have any by the time it gets 'cold' here.
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Here's a shot of the bathroom we cleaned up...well really the wife mostly cleaned it up...she found some old linoleum and cut it to fit the bare floor and then attached it with Simpson screws and caulked the seems and the screws! Its only temp. but it looks a million time better and we can actually walk around in the bathroom with bare feet.
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I foamed all the rat holes in all the rooms-went thru two cans of foam- so at least the house is not opened to the outside as much as it used to be. Which is good as I saw this huge albino opossum the other night! I kid you not white fur and pink eyes it was the craziest thing I've ever seen. I also saw a family of like 5 big raccoons climbing along the back fence. I have not found any new rodent poop in the house so I guess they are staying away.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 7/16/2007 2:11 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 7/16/2007 2:12 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 7/16/2007 2:12 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 7/16/2007 2:12 pm by madmadscientist
One last update-question on the house for the day.
We are having a lot-line conundrum. The lot size and shape we have matches the legal description of the lot that the title company provided but its not the original lot. The historical maps show the lot as being bigger. Here's a scan of the lot line maps from the county assesors office. I mean, look how weird the back end of our lot is??
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You can see that the dashed line is our original lot (lot 11). At some point in time the neighbors along the side lots were extended 2' and the one back neighbors lot was extended 30' chopping a ~30by30' out of the back of our lot!?!?! The historical maps show our lot as being the bigger dashed lined lot. Up to 87 the Sanborn Fire map of the area shows the same big lot. Now I know that the Sanborn maps are not exactly offical but in a lot of places they are pretty darn near. A book was done about the area in 88 and that book also shows the lot being bigger.
So maybe sometime between 87 and 07 the lot lines were changed? I am a little troubled by this as this corresponds to when the previous owner lost his marbles. Does anybody know how I would research this? If the lots were changed legally shouldn't there be a paper trail somewhere? Also, which gov't. aggency decides what the lot is? Who has the legal authority to say yes this is your lot or no this is not your lot?
I don't want to get into a battle with the neighbors over the lot lines but if they did do an adverse posession scam on the old guy I kinda want to know that... This all started because we were thinking about offering the back neighbor some cash to buy back that square of land and return the lot to what it was. But before we do that we want to know the legal disposition of the land.
So anyone have any ideas about this???
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 7/16/2007 2:28 pm by madmadscientist
When i bought a 20x200 piece of land from my neighbor bec the original owners of my house had miscalculated and put the well 4' over the property line from the house it belonged to, i had to have it surveyed, permanent stakes put in, and there were most definitely maps, paper trails, etc. that got filed with the County Clerk and Recorder. That was considered a "Lot Line Relocation" instead of a separate parcel, btw. You should be able to check public tax records for all those parcels and see if the change is reflected on them as to legal description. Is "C.L. Fitch" the name of a surveyor perhaps?
You should be able to check public tax records for all those parcels and see if the change is reflected on them as to legal description. Is "C.L. Fitch" the name of a surveyor perhaps?
C.L. Fitch I believe is the person who originally owned the land in the older maps that part of town is refered to as the Fitch Track.
Yes I guess I would have to go to the county assesors office to do the search of the public tax records?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
If it were me, i'd sic the title company on it first, unless you enjoy being hands-on. They can look up tax records probably more easily than you, and if it's a public record they are liable for finding it.Your title INSURANCE company has to have researched the legal title to the parcel as far as legal records go, no matter how far back that requires. However, if there was an unrecorded agreement at some point, or the lot lines on the ground don't conform to the lines an official survey would show (happens fairly often here), they aren't responsible. The sellers, however, are legally responsible (here, anyway) for disclosing unrecorded agreements to the buyer. My title company was helpful finding me some old records, but all they were liable for is finding out what i LEGALLY purchased, which should be very clearly stated in your title insurance contract, along with all the "conditions" and "exceptions" like mortgages and easements. Have you read that carefully? It should list any records they researched, including the page location(s) in the Books of Deeds, as they are called here. When i sold that house, the buyers' title insurance company made a mistake based on the lien records of a different "Colleen Miller", which they very speedily corrected. They certainly can err, but it's their job to fix it, too. You paid for it, might as well get your money's worth...
Your title INSURANCE company has to have researched the legal title to the parcel as far as legal records go, no matter how far back that requires. However, if there was an unrecorded agreement at some point, or the lot lines on the ground don't conform to the lines an official survey would show (happens fairly often here), they aren't responsible. The sellers, however, are legally responsible (here, anyway) for disclosing unrecorded agreements to the buyer.
I just went thru the title papers and they state that they only looked back 2 years in the past. So all they say is that within the last 2 years nothing happened with the property.
I wonder how the county assesors office comes up with their 'official' plat map? I wonder how often it is updated and if there are older versions out there that I could track down to see when the change took place?
I left a message with the person at the title company that handled our sale we'll see what she says.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Don't they state a legal description in your contract that they confirm is the property you bought? Since that's what the insurance is all about, it seems like they'd want to know themselves before agreeing to the terms. All my papers have always stated where every easement, survey, covenant was recorded; i don't see how they could guarantee you clear title without that research and confirmation. Where i am, they still have the enormous deed books and hand-drawn plat maps to pore over. I imagine you're a bit more up-to-date in Silicon Valley <G>, but no doubt the records are still extant in some form.Here, the Assessor is downstream from the Clerk and Recorder. It doesn't mean the assessors are billing properly - i've caught errors in my tax bill, too, grrr - but the records of whom is being taxed what MAY provide a clue if something changed upstream in the deed area.
Okay so the wife just got back from the county assesors office. Here's what they said we have to do. We have to go to the county recorders office and get all the deeds for our house and the back neighbors house and read the lot descriptions and compare them and look for when it changed. There should be two coresponding deeds one for each house filed at the same time that will show one lot getting bigger and one lot getting smaller. In theory we should be able to trace the lot sizes all the way back to when the houses were first built in 1897ish.
There is a historical records section of the assesors office that should have old plat maps but they close early so my wife missed them...Looks like I am taking Thursday off of work to submit my zoning&planning permit and then to spend the day digging thru old deeds!! yay what fun!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I would still play the title insurer angle first on this one, see if you can save yourself some work of digging up deeds anyway. My company ended up providing me with all the deed transfers, so i didn't have to copy them. I don't know what the two-year limit it about, i admit, but clear title is what they are insuring, and unless they research it, i don't see how they COULD insure anything. Maybe they only really get enthusiastic if there's a problem...Anyway, it's interesting what you discover when you do the research. I ended up driving to Hood River, Oregon, and talking to the woman who, with her husband, developed the first 10 ac. plot of homestead where the 7000 ac. ranch had been....when the Old West gave way to the New West...
Here's a quick update on the house-lot issues. We traced the titles back as far as 62 and the back neighbor had that land at least that far back. So they've been paying property taxes on it for that long and it appears that it is offically theirs.
Submitted the engineers plans to the city and got their comments back...they basically shredded them. This dude does all his drawings by hand so that when he has to fix something he kinda just adds it to the original drawing...it looks like crap and the engineer plan checker couldn't make heads or tails of most of it apparently...luckily I've never signed any kind of contract with this guy and I'm not going to pay him a dime until his plans are signed off by the city. Its just worthless chicken scratch on paper until the city approves of it. I've started trying to find a local SE to do this for me but can't get any of them to return my damn calls!! Geez I hate this...
Also this week I submitted the completly different plans to get zoning approval to re-enclose the back part of the first floor a whopping 15by6' area... To get their approval for this I had to submit floor plans for all three floors even though only one is being changed, exterior elevation views of all sides of the house though only 2 views are changing, pictures of all sides and setbacks of my house plus pictures of all the neighbors houses AND here's my favorite part, a roof plan, even though I'm not touching anything up there, oh and a complete window and door scheudule for every floor of the house eventhough I'm not changing a single window and I am only replacing one door on the bottom floor.....wait I almost forgot the best part....it costs $1300 to get a 'major design review'...
Boy am I glad the wife bought me a large format Epson printer for my bday. It prints on 13by19 'super B' paper and has been pretty perfect for doing all of this. Though it does seem to drink the ink.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
....it costs $1300 to get a 'major design review'...
Like taking a Bic lighter to a stack of C'notes. That is the 'value' you probably feel you got out of that $1300. (at least I would).
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
He's still riding on inspiration and hasn't hit a serious wall yet.
snorK*
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
No I've hit the wall already and pushed thru it. I just trying to not whine about it too much... One wall was the cancelation of our traditional 2 week Burningman vacation because of this project. If I get the engineering plancheck done my foundation guy says beginning of Sept he can start. Which is really important to me as I want this project done and buttoned up before the end of October when the rains come.
Actually got some great news today. The zoning-planning review passed with flying colors. They are going to start the 10 day neighbor comment period tomorrow!!! Yoo-hoo!!! If they don't like you it can take 30 days just for them to tell you if your packet was accepted!!! But they got it turned around in a week!! Making googly-eyes at the female zoning tech must of worked out for me! Shhh don't tell my wife...
Now I just have to fight with my engineer to get him to finish his part of the job. I interviewed two different locally reccomended SEs and well they both said it would probably be cheaper and faster to get my guy to finish than to have them start from scratch. Plus they both are going to charge me twice what the original guy was going to and they won't be able to fit me into their schedule for a couple of weeks....super.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
ya, I was just being facetious.
Yer a veteran in the reno wars, especially if after doing one you take on another of the caliber you are.
Go Man Go!
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Like taking a Bic lighter to a stack of C'notes. That is the 'value' you probably feel you got out of that $1300. (at least I would).
That it did that it did...It sure is a different experience trying to rehab an old house in a 'nice' city than it was in the ghetto. Here the neighbors will fink on you in no time flat if they think you are doing work without permits...there they don't care. Here the city micromanages every little thing-there the city was just glad the house was being fixed up and didn't put the thumb screws to you too badly...
With this one design review I am going to get all the exterior changes to the house approved at once so that'll hopefully save some time in the future.
One wacky thing is, that they are going to make me replace two non-original windows one vynil with fake lights and one AL slider with wood double hungs even though I'm not working on those areas of the house with this permit!?!!?!? And neither of those windows is visible from the street!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
<Here the neighbors will fink on you in no time flat if they think you are doing work without permits...>
Yeah! I learned that, working on ours friend's house over on Buena Vista. We installed the attic windows and skylights at night, with as much done pre-fab as we could, and never had lumber showing outside the house.
Forrest
Yeah! I learned that, working on ours friend's house over on Buena Vista. We installed the attic windows and skylights at night, with as much done pre-fab as we could, and never had lumber showing outside the house.
Its crazy here. The Alameda Preservation Society has spies everywhere! The busy bodies make a game out of 'spot the illegal work'. I had a neighbor tell me proudly how he finked on his nextdoor neighbor for putting in vynil windows.
Luckily for us the place has been an eyesore for soo long that our immediate neighbors are just really happy that we are doing anything to make it look better.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
No I've hit the wall already and pushed thru it. I just trying to not whine about it too much.
That should really be in the top 10 list of the renovation bible. All to often you see someone taking on renovation (or GC'ing) and they immediately start whine-whine-whining. My general thought is that if you've voluntarily taken on the role of 'problem solver', then you kind of lose your right to whine when there's a problem.
And I try to remind myself of that every time I get hit with a flurry of problems. ;) For me it helps having a friend or family member that you can occasionally get your whine out on.
It sure is a different experience trying to rehab an old house in a 'nice' city than it was in the ghetto.
When you get done, you should add up all the BS fees like that $1300 charge. Have a BS grand total.
I can understand a city wanting to oversee renovation. And permits & inspections keep the yahoos from burning houses down, but to charge $1300...sheeze! IMO that should be $100 or less. And that crap about making you change windows/door that were already there ... sheeze.
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
and when the gumption is on go then it's time to burn the midnight oil if need be.
sometimes there can be a lot of time show up between gumptions.
be grumpy with no gumption
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
and when the gumption is on go then it's time to burn the midnight oil if need be.
Tortoise and hare work methods. I alternate between the two depending on what is being worked on. Kinda depends if that portion of the project is a sprint or a marathon. Most of my current project house has been 'tortoise'. Just keep plodding along. Occasionally there is a 'hare' portion of the project when some segment of the job needs to get done by a certain time.
For instance, replacing the main beam was a 'hare' project. You've got the people there and the gear is in place and once you start jacking the house, it is better to just go ahead and keep working and get it done. IIRC, finshed at 3AM.
Probably one of my top 10 mistakes is trying to 'hare' a 'tortoise' portion of the project. All you do is burn yourself out. Learning to pace yourself (without coming to a full stop) is tough.
sometimes there can be a lot of time show up between gumptions.
Sometimes years between. jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Got to hand it to madmadscientist tho'.
Guys been on Go for quite a while. I'm thinking he must have learned quite a bit the first time thru.
be one for the money two for the show
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Got to hand it to madmadscientist tho'. Guys been on Go for quite a while. I'm thinking he must have learned quite a bit the first time thru.
Thanks for the kind words but I don't feel like it though...I feel like I'm treading water as fast and as hard as I can but I'm not getting anywhere. Its this whole business with the permits taking so dang long. We've done all the demo we can do and cleaned up as much as we can-I want to start building.
Last night over burritos and margaritas we went over our 'short-term' goals and wow am I going to have a busy couple of months. Before the rains come at the end of October we want to:
Get the foundation-slab completely done. This also entails redoing our sewer main and all the plumbing in the slab.
Have the roof done-complete tear off and some framing rebuilding.
Install a tankless water heater
Repipe with pex (to replace the old galv.)
Spray foam insulate the roof plane (hot roof)
install central heat (either gshp or standard gas furnace)
I know we are not doing the found and roof but everything else we should be able to do (except the gshp). Now, whether or not we are going to get it done ourselves or just throw money at it to get it done sooner remains to be seen...not sure if we will have any money left after the foundation-slab-plumbing redo.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Rockn'Roll Maestro!
be coffeed up;o)
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Sounds like instead of tortoise & hare, his analogy would be an old steam RR engine. Slowing picking up speed and going faster and faster. Of couse that assumes you don't have to come to a stop at the next station :)
jt8
"Even if I knew that tomorrow the world would go to pieces, I would still plant my apple tree." -- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
Or be carrying a handful of different ticket destinations and try to hit them all.
The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation. What is called resignation is confirmed desperation. From the desperate city you go into the desperate country, and have to console yourself with the bravery of minks and muskrats. A stereotyped but unconscious despair is concealed even under what are called the games and amusements of mankind. There is no play in them, for this comes after work. But it is a characteristic of wisdom not to do desperate things.
Here's an update on our Victorian house redo.
Our original engineer walked off the job on Sunday with a pissy voicemail to me. That's super, was going to fire him anyways. It took him 2 months to do what he said was 2 weeks of work and they still were not correct. I had 3 other SE's look at his work and they all said the same thing. Over-designed unnecessary steel re-enforcement for the garage door header. They all also said that there was easier ways to do the beam-post to replace bearing walls thing. We are going to go down to a 9' rough head height-that way we don't have to do any flush beams. One additional wrinkle is now I need a concrete driveway with drainage as the TOS will be ~2' below sidewalk level. I don't think the slope will be a problem as it has to go 2' in 12'
One of the three SE's had a hole open up in his schedule and is working on my plans now. Should be interesting with what happens with my original SE. We had no written contract and he walked so I'm not planning on paying him...with the new SE he has my cad drawn plans plus the plans-calcs of the original SE and he says he should be able to get in done in under a week. I've structured the payment schedule so that he will be financially motivated to finish the work quickly-holding back the majority of the money till the building dept signs off.
Got yet another call from the zoning people. Now they are going to hold up my foundation permit because of the back deck that was not done with permits. The deck is at least 10 years old and they are going to force me to get it amnestied before I can do the foundation. I know the balusters need to be redone which wouldn't be too bad but they are also talking about making me take off 5' of its width because its too close to the property line!!!! I'm hoping to avoid that...
Yay burecrats!!!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Mad, I hear the "Yay burecrats!!!!"
Loud and clear... but the previous work wasn't done to code or by law.
How about the same disdain for the people who did the work without the legals in place?"Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Ja, but why should they penalize HIM?But you CAN'T import Weapons of Mass Destruction! government official in Dubai upon learning that Smoke & CO detectors have a bright RADIOACTIVE sticker on them.
They shouldn't. I was just feeling a bit for those who choose the role and life of code enforcement. Feeling has passed now."Poor is not the person who has too little, but the person who craves more."...Seneca
Loud and clear... but the previous work wasn't done to code or by law.How about the same disdain for the people who did the work without the legals in place?
Yea I know I've looked over the work and it looks good except he did the balusters wrong on the deck and stairway... Are they going to make me dig up the concrete footings for the deck to prove they are up to code?
Its not unsafe inherently but the balusters are horizontal and won't pass the 4" sphere rule...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Seems to me that if the new SE uses any of the dwgs/calcs from the original SE, you'll have a hard time not paying the first one - at least some amount.
Don
Seems to me that if the new SE uses any of the dwgs/calcs from the original SE, you'll have a hard time not paying the first one - at least some amount.
He's not going to use them exactly, only in reference to what not to do. He says he couldn't do it even if he wanted too, that its illegal. We are changing it up enough that they wouldn't be much practical use anyways I think.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I find that the gumption for me builds slowly over time and that I start out being more tortoise like but then slowly I morph into a hare. I call it spooling up.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I can understand a city wanting to oversee renovation. And permits & inspections keep the yahoos from burning houses down, but to charge $1300...sheeze! IMO that should be $100 or less. And that crap about making you change windows/door that were already there ... sheeze.
I got the final word today from on high about my zoning permit...yes they are going to make me replace the vynil slider window (thats on the 2nd story at the back of the house and thats impossible to see from the street) with a pair of wood double hungs!! Eventhough we are not going to do any work on that floor yet...so to get my foundation permit I have to change a window out on the 2nd floor...makes perfect sense!
We are planning to work on that floor and that area in the spring so I am going to try to let them give me till spring and do it then...They also checked my permit history and he ticked off all the things on the house that are not done with permits. The back deck is not done with permits and he wants me to seek amnesty with the building permit side for it. He says that they might make me tear it down and rebuild it to code because its too close to the property line...I'll get right on that sheesh...
They are letting me slide on changing the window on the third floor because they decided that it was more than 20 years old but he strongly reccomended I do it.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
"replace the vynil slider ... with a pair of wood double hungs"
But did he say "new"? I'm thinking Urban Ore - they've got to have a few dozen pairs in your size :-). Of course he will want them to open so you have egress from the empty floor...
Boy, am I glad I live in the Burbs! No soul, but no crap either. I have friends in Piedmont - you think you have it bad in Alameda, talk to them sometime. And don't get me started on Berkeley's hysterical preservationists!
I do love the old houses, and adimire the heck out of what you are doing (twice!!) but it sure would be nice if those petty control freaks showed a little sprinkling of practical common sense every now and then.
Ya that's good thinking....I'll have to have a look around there. A new set of double hung windows won't be cheap too. There is a newer place here in Alameda called the re-use store, way cheaper than urban ore, don't think its a for-profit business.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Your closing/real-estate atty that you used when you bought the house should've been able to find these records if they existed.
Your closing/real-estate atty that you used when you bought the house should've been able to find these records if they existed.
The title company did the title search but I don't know how far back in time they look? I guess I'll have to call the woman at the title company and ask them. What the title company found was the current description of the lot at the county assesors office. I don't think that the lot lines were checked in any serious way actually...Hmm I should call the title company and find out exactly what they did.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
LOL, yeah because I'm sure you were sitting around thinking, "if only I had one more thing to do..."
jt8
"If you can't sleep, then get up and do something instead of lying there and worrying. It's the worry that gets you, not the loss of sleep." -- Dale Carnegie
The ceiling rafters were actually new, if you look at the purple room picture, you can see it is a low ceiling, we removed the original ceiling rafters (2 x 4's) and raised the ceiling to 10' in the main area and 9' 6" in the kitchen. The HVAC system for the second floor is in the attic which still has room to walk standing straight up.
The walls were firred out to allow room for insulation and to straighten them out a bit for the drywall.
Hi John,
Yea the new engineer does appear to be working out. I sent him my cad files of the house and he used them as his base to do his work. I also had him come out to look at everything and to make sure he was on the same page as me. This was easy as he lives only 10min away from us. He did seem a little perturbed that I am having my concrete contractor look at his plans before they are finaled but that just makes good sense to me. So now we are waiting to hear back from my concrete guy as to what he thinks about the plans. Then I have to resubmit them to the plan check engineer and hopefully it will go better this time.
The zoning desk for the city is throwing up what I consider ridiculous road blocks to us getting the foundation redone. I started a thread about that here
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=93641.1
My wife had to meet the inspector on site and she posted about it here
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/08/inspection-fun.html
I wanted to put a bow window up on the top floor to replace the AL slider they want me to remove but they won't allow it as it will stick out too far not as far as the edge of the roof though. Actually because its withing 5' of the property line they are trying to tell me that I have to take it out completely....that's not going to fly.
So to re-iterate they are the ones that wanted me to replace the window. But if I touch the window they seem to be saying that I have to have a code compliant replacement which can't happen because its too close to the property line. Eventhough we are on the third story and the tallest building in the area and no other building withing 30'...
I feel like I'm trapped in the super long directors cut of the movie Brazil!!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Hate to say it, but I'm glad its YOU and not me dealing with 'em. I'm completely in tune with your thinking though. You are trying to SAVE this run down house and are trying to do it CORRECTLY, but getting delayed by a bunch of BS/fees/etc. Many of which are caused because the yahoos before you didn't bother to follow the rules.
Deck needs work, fine, but let me get my crumbling foundation taken care of first. The size, composition, and placement of the deck isn't going to matter much if the whole house falls into the basement.jt8
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb protesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
Okay an update,
Nothing is moving forward on this dang house. Now I am in danger of losing my slot with the foundation contractor which will make me really farking mad he's good so he's always booked and if I don't get this done by the end of Oct. I'm bumping into our rainy season and it scares me to be trying a complete foundation redo in super sandy soil in the rain...
The City of Alameda building dept runs with the lightening speed of molasses in the winter.
I could'nt re-submit my plans till I got the okay from the plan-check engineer. I called her several times and she took over a week to get back to me...
It's been three weeks since the BI came out and inspected our non-permitted deck. I can't go forward with any of the permits till I get his report back but I can't seem to get anyone there to tell me what-where-why I haven't received it yet....
Here's what I am learning from this. Don't allow the beurecrats to be nameless-faceless. I think that if they are anon they can more easily screw you over. Introduce yourself and make sure to get their first and last names and make sure you tell them enough of your backstory to put a human-personal face on the project.
Arrrrgh!! This is driving me nuts....I just want to get the fracking stuff redone before the winter rains...We can work inside the envelope of the house during the winter but the foundation-leveling and slab have to happen first.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I feel i must be missing something as i follow along, but why not lose the 6' on the deck, get your foundation permit, then deal with - whatever - adding the deck back on at a later date? Seems dumb, but getting the foundation done soon seems the big prize....worth it?Your permit tales remind me so much of my friend's hassles in San Jose 20 years ago...and he wanted to do everything extremely well, just wanted to get it done!
We are not even at that point yet. I have to wait till I get the dang report back from the inspector to see what he wants me to do!!! I will put up a reasonable fight over the back deck as what they want us to do is to turn it into just a landing which would destroy its usefulness Actually I don't even have to fix the deck before they will give me the permit I just have to have a building permit for what I am going to do with it and they will go ahead with the design review...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sorry, i thought it was just a hassle over the fire-worthy part, i.e. i thought you actually had a choice! I can see you'd want to preserve it, if possible. Seems like building ought to be slowing down there, meaning less time to a permit. I wonder if it's one of those deals where your file cycles to the bottom of the pile if they even talk to you about it. Oh, well, hoping for a late winter for both of us. I've worked so much on other people's places this year, i've done almost zip done on my own, but i have only about a week left of stuff i have to do for others, then i might get the exterior trim up yet this year...
Dan, I could say that if it was easy everyone would be doing it but obviously you don't need to hear that now. snorK*
One day in the future you'll be sitting there in the finished product looking back and reminising about all this you're going thru and it'll be alright.
But when yer there in the middle of it YOU JUST WANT TO KILL SOMETHING!!!
heh heh be going a bit mad there, scientist?
sobriety is the root cause of dementia.
Yea I might start naming names in the blog that would make me feel better but might get me in trouble with someone. They are public servants right they have no right to anonymity right?
Maybe if the blog gets good and juicy we can turn it into a blook or something
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Obviously you have to keep notching up the pressure until you get results out of the red tape rats (and you thought you'd gotten rid of all the rats) to get the foundation in prior to the monsoons, but... but.. but...
There is a silver lining; this is the project God's way of giving you a break. So take DW somewhere nice for dinner, go see a show, and get some relaxation and enjoyment in... because the next furious flury of work begins shortly.
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
i'd start work, anyway's ..
they can't cause damage to your residence by delayEmergency Repair
Edited 9/8/2007 7:32 am ET by Clear_River_Construction
Wow that might not be in my best long term interest. I might win that battle but I'll lose the war with the many many other permits I'm going to need to get from them.
Though when I do speak to the BI I will mention how he said that the foundation is in really bad shape.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Though when I do speak to the BI I will mention how he said that the foundation is in really bad shape.
Well, if you had MY luck, that would result in a condemned notice showing up on my front door and a daily penalty $$ for every day it took to demolish the structure. ;)
jt8
"I was gratified to be able to answer promptly.
I said 'I don't know.'"
-- Mark Twain
the other Permit's HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR FOUNDATIONwhich needs Emergency Repairi'd start worki'd hire an Attorneyif you don't start swingin' your dick now ....
what's going to happen on the rest of your project ..?endless delay ..??
That's funny that you use that exact phrase, ' waving my **** around.'
The building dept is almost completely run by women the only men being the BI's. I've seen irate contractors in there trying to wave something around and those battle axes just shut him down unmercifully...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
they are delaying your contractor, perhaps causing more damage to your property..if my company had a contract for your foundation repair ..the Building Dept. ... would already have been Servedin .. NY .. anyway's
Okay an update on the trying to get a dang foundation permit.
Its looking good and I'm starting to be hopeful. Got the redone plans in last week and the plan check engineer only had one real comment that the SE needs to address. He should have that done soon and I should be able to submit them for the last (hopefully) time on Monday.
I finally got a meeting with the zoning guy and the BI...man I hate it when people try to pass the buck and not take responsibility for their decisions. I mean right there in front of me these guys were trying to pass the buck back and forth to each other cause they didn't want to be responsible for telling me the bad news. Well first neither of them did their jobs and I pointed that out first thing. The BI determined that the deck was ~20years old. Fine, that means that it has to conform to the building and zoning codes enforced then. Neither of the schmucks could tell me what code was enforced back then or what it was...they kept trying to make me meet current code!!! I wasn't having it....here's the ridiculous compromise...
I have to cut the deck back from the prop line by 4"....yes 4" the house-deck is 2'-8" from the prop line and they determined it needs to be 3'...if I had just measured a bit differently it wouldn't of been a problem!! I have to take 4" out of the deck that means knocking out the 6by supports and repouring new foundations and rebuilding that side of the deck!!!
I'm calling it the four angry inches!!! But I realized its all B.S. cause the only people who care are the zoning guys and all they wanted to give me the okay on the foundation job was a 'plan' on what was going to be done. They aren't even going to force me to get a building permit for it before they give me their okay. I'm pretty sure I'm just going to forget to redo the deck and the issue will die quitely...
So looks like we should be able to start this foundation in the beginning of oct.
Hurray!!!!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Good luck. Man....
Unbelievable...but at least it's not even a contest-worthy judgment call. This battle clearly goes to The Enforcers...but you live to fight another day. Here's hoping concrete is all that pours!
I am so glad that I dont have to put up with BS like you do, would probably make me go freaking nuts, or postal, one of the two!
Glad your finally making some progress.
Doug
Well Praise Jesus and Allah and who-ever you feel like cause the city just called me and the permit is ready to pick up!!!! Hot Damn I can't wait to get this foundation-slab redo done!!!!!
Now I gotta get the latest set of city engineer approved plans to my contractor (a couple of the earthquake retro fit details have changed) so he can work up a new 'for real' quote and hopefully he can squeeze me into his schedule before the end of October!!!!
HURRAY!!!!!! Let the money spending begin!!!!!! Bring on the expensive change orders lets drain the bank account!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The Building Dept and contractors are in cahoots. It's all a ploy to make you absolutely delighted to spend AS MUCH AS IT TAKES!!!Here's to a dry October!
A lot of the contractors around here have expressed dismay over the permitting process. They seem to think that with the slow down in building the building depts have more time to pick over the plans and are making it much harder than it used to be.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
One of those jobs where the work expands to fit the time allotted, eh? No chance anyone will get laid off, of course. After being party to my San Jose friends' woes getting a new foundation built under their Vic, i think living there and trying to restore a house would drive me mad. At one point, TPTB told Matt he'd have to hire an engineer to sit and just WATCH him pour to be sure he didn't change anything from the plans..like he's going to pull rebar out of the slab? I think he talked them out of that silliness since he'd drawn the plans and spec'd the rebar himself. But jays...the interminable waits and innumerable trips to the planning dept. I was down there visiting one time and went in with Matt who was meeting with the head of the plumbing inspectors., who mentioned he had to buy a saddle valve on his lunch hour. I cocked my head and said, "I thought those weren't code...?" He just smiled. Hmmm....
just remember this #### next time someone complains about high house prices in the Bay area... could this be one reason??
just remember this #### next time someone complains about high house prices in the Bay area... could this be one reason??
Yea those four ampersands in a row are just killers!!!! I'm guessing you are talking about the busy bodies? In Alameda I can see how they might be helpful. Lots of illegal duplexs and triplexs and people ripping up/out the original bits of the house to do some sort of Home Despot makeover. The city doesn't have the time, money or inclination to search out these transgressions. In Alameda the old houses are considered valuable by the city as a whole and most people would much rather see a big ole victorian restored than gutted-turned into a triplex. People seem to place more value on a nice old home here than they do in other parts of the SF Bay area.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Exactly. The houses are a treasure. And we, the building owners (and some of us, Landlords) are responsible for maintaining these jewels. My point is just that the same people that make the laws that 'force' us to maintain high quality renovations (which I agree is a good thing) then wave their arms in the air and complain that there's no low-cost housing available. They then enact legislation (in San Francisco, at least) to try to force property owners (landlords) to subsidize tenants (via rent control) so they don't have to pay for the expensive renovations the law requires... get my drift?
So wow, got the new super-improved quote back from my foundation guy...His new quote with the offical plans is $50,000 higher than the original quote! I have'nt been able to talk to him about it yet but damn this has really thrown us for a loop....$50,000 sure ain't chicken feed....
I don't know what to make of this new development...either he really misunderstood the original scope of work or he's I don't know what...screwing me? We've worked with him before he's always been a good guy. To my mind the only things different is that we are lifting the house 6", going for a 9' rough ceiling height, a slightly fancier drainage system, and doing some grading work in the back yard. His basic quote of $98,000 is higher than his original estimate of $75,000 for the whole job and I'm paying the plumber seperately!!
I don't feel any other recourse than to shop this around to a couple other good foundation guys so see what's up. Maybe this new scope of work will honestly push this job up into the $125,000 range. Hell I did all the permitting work myself! I'm going to have to figure out how to shave some money off this...maybe do the carpentry myself.
Don't know if this is a huge taboo here but here's his quote. If this causes a huge problem then I'll just edit this and remove it.
ESTIMATE
This estimate includes all labor and material to do the following work, as per
9-20-07 plans:
DEMOLITION/SHORING/EXCAVATION AND HAULING:
Provide temporary house shoring, lift the house 6”, and level the house as practical. Remove the existing house foundation, existing basement slab, and the walls below the floor joists as required for the proposed addition (front porch and stairs to remain). Complete excavation and hauling as required for the new foundation. This contract includes a $3,500.00 allowance to excavate down the rear yard to an elevation 6” below the new deepened basement slab the width of the house and to the rear of the property 15’ (measured from the rear of the house).
CONCRETE CONSTRUCTION:
Construct the foundation with retaining walls with rear addition as per plans. Walls may be cast against the earth with Paraseal LG and Miradrain, or formed on both sides. Forms may be either boards or plywood. Add $3,800.00 to replace the porch foundation (if required).
WATERPROOFING AND DRAINAGE:
Backfill the retaining walls with drain rock or Miradrain and install Paraseal waterproofing where retaining walls are above the interior slab elevation. Install foundation and slab drains and two sump pumps- one under the front stair area (in accordance with plans), and 1 installed into the rear yard excavated area. Install a new storm water drainage system connecting to all downspouts and area drains and discharging the collected water to the street. Drain pipe to be SDR-35. Add $700.00 to install a Meyers battery back up system to the front sump pump.
ESTIMATE COST FOR ABOVE WORK: $98,680.00
CARPENTRY:
1. Framing:
a. Install beams and posts.
b. Frame new first floor partition walls.
c. Frame addition area with joist work.
d. Modify existing, and construct new framing walls with hardware for shear walls. (plywood by owners)
e. Install clipping, and hardware as per plans.
ESTIMATE COST: $18,500.00
2. Finish carpentry:
a. Install siding trim and water table to match the existing house.
b. Make repairs to siding where removal is required to access foundation work.
c. Install new rear basement door ($600.00 allowance for door and hardware)
ESTIMATED COST: $6,500.00
3. Flashing:
a. Install custom “Z” flashing around the perimeter of the house to waterproof foundation offset.
ESTIMATED COST: $2,200.00
EXCLUSIONS:
-Special inspections, design, and permit fees.
-Repair work as a result of shoring or levelling.
-Plumbing, sewer work, electrical, drywall, finish carpentry other than mentioned above and painting.
ESTIMATE TOTAL: $125,880.00
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Give him a call and ask him.
I've almost gotten to the point where I can spot a contractor who doesn't want a job. On one electrical bid I got a couple weeks ago, I called it. I don't know why, but I just KNEW the dude didnt' want it. The other person there at the time thought I was crazy and thought the electrician was eager for the job, but sure enough, his bid came back waaay high. "I don't want the job" high.
Wonder if your contractor is inflating for PITA factor?
Hopefully you can get your crete issue resolved.
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Edited 10/15/2007 9:48 am by JohnT8
Wonder if your contractor is inflating for PITA factor?
Ha, yea that's a dig at me yea? Naw, really I don't think I've been a PITA. I've actually gone out of my way to do the major PITA stuff to deliever him a permit and plan ready to go. I've done all the b.s. fighting with the building dept. and the zoning dept. I found the engineer, worked out all the plans-this is stuff he usually does as part of the job.
I've called him twice and sent him an email and he emailed me a reply which is kinda a wuss out cause I asked him to talk to me about it.
I'm having the engineer run off a couple of more copies of the plan so I can shop the job out to see if this new quote is way of base or what. The main thing that blows about this is that he/we were ready to start this week now this is going to set up back a month at least...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Ha, yea that's a dig at me yea?
You just never know what's going through a contractor's head. Something you're doing to help him, he might think is a PITA DIY'er being a nuisance. Or maybe he just wants to steer clear of the yahoos you've got running the permit process. Or maybe he wanted to take a couple weeks off. Or maybe he thought you were going to do it two months ago and had scheduled accordingly and is pissed off now... You just never know.
But if you've done business with him before, you would at least think he would call and talk with you.jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
But if you've done business with him before, you would at least think he would call and talk with you
Finally got a hold of him today. We had a nice long conversation and he's going to look at the $98,000 chunk and break it down into a couple of smaller chunks and we'll see if we can reduce the scope of work enough to bring the dollar amount down to where we can afford it. I didn't think that we had a Cadillac plan but who knows...
I'll probably have to end up doing the framing work myself at this rate. Which really sucks as I am in the point with this new job where the work hours are crazy but the pay is not crazy-good. So no time to do the work myself and no money to pay someone else to do it!!! Hurray!!!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Welcome to the bay area world of ever escalating construction costs. When I did my foundation seven years ago, I got five bids ranging from $30,000 to $115,00. And that was just to the mudsills. I wound up doing it myself for a bit over my own $16,000 estimate. Try to get at least five bids, from reliable concrete foundation subs, and check them out. Don't be afraid to wait, once that foundation is in it's not going anywhere. I would also suggest doing the floors later. Good luck!
Edited 10/15/2007 4:21 pm by sawduster
Welcome to the bay area world of ever escalating construction costs. When I did my foundation seven years ago, I got five bids ranging from $30,000 to $115,00. And that was just to the mudsills. I wound up doing it myself for a bit over my own $16,000 estimate. Try to get at least five bids, from reliable concrete foundation subs, and check them out. Don't be afraid to wait, once that foundation is in it's not going anywhere. I would also suggest doing the floors later. Good luck!
Yea I've got a short list of quality highly reccomended foundation guys that I called today to set-up appts. You'd think having the permit in hand would be a big carrot with these guys? That's a big hassle that they don't have to deal with...right?
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Actually, labor and supply prices are a greater factor, not to mention potential liability. Permit procedures and requirements vary alot in east bay cities, and known contractors sometimes have an easy time at it. Take your time to get the quality job you are willing to pay for. And needless to say, make sure the contractor is licensed, has worker's comp and will work with you. There is no room for callbacks in foundation work.
So I've got some super-fabulous news. The original contractor went back thru his original bid and hey he didn't add in everything so now his original bid is $137,000!!!! Hurray it actually went up!! That makes me feel all warm and tingly inside.
He has suggested several changes in the scope of work that would bring his bid down. He has suggested doing with a 8' rough instead of the 9', a less fancy drainage system and not excavating the rear yard area out as much as we had originally planned... All of his suggested changes would knock $25,000 out of his bid but I have to admit I don't completely understand what he is proposing so that'll be another fun conversation.
I've got appts with three local highly regarded foundation guys this week and the next so I'll hopefully get some idea what the reasonable cost of the job should be.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
if i was you and had a estimate for a 135k for a foundation ,i'd be sitting at the local bar downing a few! maybe you said back when you started but howmany running feet of wall do you have? i'm guessing a 125 but thats a guess,so how does lowering the wall back down to 8' drop the bid 25k! if it's 125'x1' x8" thats 3 yds of concrete and another foot of forms,i wouldn't think anymore labor on the pour,just the extra jacking in the air.
speaking of jacking i think this guy sees a customer that is more than ready to go and is doing a little jacking before he gets started.better sign him up before he realizes his calc. malfuntioned and it will be 185k
good luck you've got bigger gonads than i !:] larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Its more like 160' of foundation. There is like 7.5' rough down there now and we are going to 9' rough. This quote also includes a 165 sq ft driveway and framing in a couple of loadbearing walls and some beams and posts. So not just the concrete foundation work. If you look a couple of posts up I included the estimate in red
But yea after we got the first quote the wife and I had a couple of strong drinks. Hopefully I can get the three additional quotes soon and can compare apples to apples.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 10/17/2007 8:17 pm by madmadscientist
not to try and underbid your guy but if i had a basement that paid 100k i could throw in the 165 ft of driveway in just extra mud in the truck. around here any concrete guy in town would love to make 7.00 a ft laying a drive.=1200.00
i think things are high around here but this makes me feel better. i know it's all relavent to what a house is worth in cailf. or kansas,but do you guys out there carry your money in big briefcases instead of billfolds? :] lol
after about the fifth drink you think,it's only money,can't take with us right? larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
bump
To review had to send out my foundation-slab-drainage-driveway job out to rebid because my original contractor raised his bid $50,000 after I had gotten the plans finalized and the permit.
I had 3 local highly reccomended foundation guys come over and give bids from the new finalized plans. It was bit of a struggle to get them to quote mostly exactly the same scope of work but I think I did pretty well and therefore the bid prices should be apples to apples.
One guy was ~$20 grand less!!! The bids were not tightly clustered $116,000, $137,000, $125,000. Now normally I would be very suspect of the low bid guy but we checked him out and his past customers love him. My wife was calling his references and started at the wrong end of the list and talked to someone who had their foundation done 12 years ago. They said its held up fine and the drainage system has worked flawlessly. The recent people said he works fast, clean and comes in at the estimated amount. This is also the guy who's water proofing-drainage scheme I liked the best.
I'm confused this does appear to be an instance where the best guy for the job is also the low bidder. I've determined that he owns his own house moving equipment and does not sub out that part of the job so maybe that's why he's cheaper. I've checked and his license is valid and his insurance is up to date.
I feel bad about not going with the original guy who I know will do a good job but dang we can't afford a $20,000 upcharge because he's a nice guy.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
If the low bidder does good work, then it is a no-brainer. Did you by chance ask the references if he came in on bid?
jt8
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh." --Voltaire
Yea my wife talked to six of his references and he did come in at the bid amount. I was thinking that maybe we was trying to buy the job with a low bid but that doesn't appear to be the case.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
If nothing else, your project makes me feel not so bad over the 100 G or so I dropped on mine.
Yea that's my function around here, to make others feel better about themselves!! I always wanted to be a cautionary tale!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Yea that's my function around here, to make others feel better about themselves!! I always wanted to be a cautionary tale!
About a week ago, I had an electrician out to upgrade service to 200amps, put a new meterbase/shutoff in, new masthead, new main line into the house, new panel, and misc. He (or one of his people) went over to the village office and filled out the permit. Paid the $40, and a little while later a village lineman was out there turning off the power. Whole operation from start to finish took maybe 3 or 4 hours.
I think that puts my 'hassle level' near the opposite extreme from yours. With your project in the back of my mind, I was relieved that my day went so smoothly.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Okay so the work on the new foundation started Wednesday. After 4 days of work they've done a fair bit of work I think. The house is completely supported by cribbing. The slab and most of the exterior foundation has been removed. It does freak me out a little bit to see the bottom of the walls sorta floating in the breeze.
My wife took a bunch of pics and did a blog post about it. Actually she's done several posts about it already.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/12/day-4-coming-right-along.html
They are going to do the lift and leveling this wednesday and they say they will be pouring the exterior foundation a week later. Lots of cracks already in the plaster and I was a bit concerned about the existing cantelevered bumpout. Because of the I-beam supporting the joists there now the cantelever went from 3 to 5 feet and the wall section is hanging there off the joists which seems to me to be significantly increasing the load on those joists. Its drooped a bit but they've assured me its going to be alright.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
woo-hoo the fun has started!! let the money flow begin.
it's gotta feel good to finally see it start.larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Glad to see you are getting somewhere with the foundation finally. Oh, and I see the rat nest removal is over too, good job.
Wow, that is neat to see. Take lots of pics. It will be over before you know it and that will be SUCH a motivation boost to getting everything else done!
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
By the by, are you going to sneak any artifacts into the new foundation? I like to put new pennies in and then starting this year with the new dollar coins, I put those in various places to mark the construction.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Edited 12/12/2007 5:56 pm by JohnT8
Edited 12/12/2007 5:57 pm by JohnT8
Hadn't thought about sneaking anything into the foundation. I was at least hoping that they would let my wife and I sign our names in the slab somewhere.
It sucks-getting home from work so late. Its completely dark and I have to wait till morning till see the progress.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
New 200 amp service? New foundation? Contact your building department about whether a concrete encased electrode ( see NEC250.52) would be acceptable in alameda. Has to be installed and inspected before the foundation is poured. (wish I had known about it!)
Hadn't thought about sneaking anything into the foundation. I was at least hoping that they would let my wife and I sign our names in the slab somewhere.
If you or dw have an artsy side, you could make up a little logo with your names in it and then stamp the logo on stuff as you go. On the slab, inside the walls, whatever. Just think how much fun folks in 50 years will have with it ;)
Looks like your foundation crew is gonna have the monster cans hidden everywhere.
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/12/this-remodel-brought-to-you-by.html
Even stuff like that can be fun to find in 50-100 yrs.
The porta-pottie is hilarious:
http://chezneumansky.blogspot.com/2007/12/its-beginning-to-smell-lot-like.html
Have to enter that in the porta-pottie hall of fame.
Gawd.... porta-pottie, Xmas, and Dr. Who humor all mixed into one! Now you just need a shot of Mike Smith exiting.
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jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Edited 12/12/2007 5:57 pm by JohnT8
Edited 12/12/2007 6:00 pm by JohnT8
Edited 12/12/2007 6:01 pm by JohnT8
Edited 12/12/2007 6:01 pm by JohnT8
Edited 12/12/2007 6:10 pm by JohnT8
Thanks decorating the porta potty was the wifes idea. We do have a bit of an artistic bent and I like the idea of making a stamp for the concrete.
The house was leveled and lifted yesterday. The wife swears the whole place is now listing to the left but I'm not sure.
I have to check a little more closely but it doesnt' look like they've met the 1/4" relative level spec from the contract. It looks like the back right hand corner is still sloping downward unacceptably...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
The house was leveled and lifted yesterday. The wife swears the whole place is now listing to the left but I'm not sure.
LOL, maybe she got used to it being unlevel and now it feels funny.
I have to check a little more closely but it doesnt' look like they've met the 1/4" relative level spec from the contract. It looks like the back right hand corner is still sloping downward unacceptably...
You could start a thread about how to verify the whole house being level. I'm sure you'd get various methods suggested.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Update on the old house project...
Here's what you don't want to see when preparing to lay a driveway...we knew the sewer main line and the water main was going to have to be adjusted but the gas line was a complete surprise...
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The old gas line was where we would of expected it the new flexible line is not where anyone expected it. If the utility was going to put in a new line why wouldn't they remove the old one and put the new one in its place? We don't even know if the old line is still connected but its in poor shape so we hope not.
View Image
The red circle shows the new line where it enters the house, the blue is the old gas line and the yellow is where the gas line enters from the street.
The plumbers are not allowed to touch the gas line so if I want it moved I got to get PG&E over here to put a 90 deg bend just past the sidewalk and run the line out of the way. Been playing phone tag with them and can't get an answer on how long it would take them to do it. Only thing I could get outta them was that it would take them up to 7 days to get back to me just to tell me how long it would take them...that's not going to work and we are probably going to rejigger the driveway to skirt the line.
The foundation project is buzzing along at a good pace. The house is up on cribs, the old foundation and slab is gone they've dug down and are working on finishing up the forms for the foundation walls. They say they are going to pour on Thursday so lets see how it goes. Its raining cats and dogs and that's slowing the plumbers down a bit.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 12/18/2007 3:25 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 12/18/2007 3:33 pm by madmadscientist
How goes it?
And did you have a good Xmas in your elevated house?
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
The air is probably cleaner up there too<G>.Some people don't deserve dogs.
Unfortunately when the wind is blowing just right you can smell the porta potty from the kitchen...yum yum...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Someday, it'll all be over. Then what're you going to do?
probably lose my mind and sell the current to buy another one in worse shape!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Did you see the previous post about the friggen gas line in the way??? After a hour of wrangling with the gas company I finally got thru to someone who would give me an answer about moving it....short story is that it woulda taken them 2 months to do it!! Can you believe that carp! So we worked around it...
They poured the walls on Friday and today they finished stripping the forms and applied the bitchuthane membrane to the footings and the exterior of the foundation walls. The foreman on site thinks they'll be ready to pour the slab next Friday Jan 4th.
There's two small hitches in the plan so far...
One, my wife decided two friggen days ago that we needed hydronic radiant heating in the slab...I desperately emailed NRTRob here who is going to try to help me out but I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and pay a local pro to do the figuring and install the PEX tubing so that we don't hold up the pour more than a couple of days.
2nd thing is the sunken patio off the back of the house... It looks like the patio it going to be about 3' below the existing grade. I should of planned for this already and had the foundation contractor form up and pour the retaining walls for the patio when he did the foundation walls. Now'll we'll have to figure out how to do it (and how much more its going to cost) when they pour the slab. The patio is going to be 20' by 22' and we want to form bench seating as part of the retaining wall. There will also have to be stairs up to grade formed as well. Hopefully the upcharge for this isn't going to give me a heart attack...
Xmass went well as we spent it at my sisters McMansion (though I think I hurt my shoulder playing Wii tennis and my wife's back is sore from playing Wii boxing-she got absolutely murdered by my nieces).
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel,
Sunken patio sounds cool, but what's the rush? Is it part of the permit or independent? There are all kinds of ways to do a patio; personally concrete is at the bottom of my list. Since you have the retaining walls in - the hard part - couldn't you do something like pavers, maybe spaced with thyme or something like that growing between them, or... as the finances and time allow?
Here's a couple of benches I did:
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3 ft below grade - hope the drainage is already in! Or is it going to be a winter pond / summer patio? :-)
Isn't PG&E unreal? Next door neighbor had at least 5 scheduled times when they were going to come out and swing the power back from the temp pole to the new riser. Finally showed up on a Sunday (yea, at double pay) with 3 trucks & 5 people. No wonder we pay so much!
Wayne
Edited 12/26/2007 11:42 pm by wrudiger
Edited 12/26/2007 11:42 pm by wrudiger
There is no rush exactly except that the bottom of the exterior door at that end of the house is ~3' below grade-and it opens outward.
The excavation is part of the original permit-since the foundation contractor is going to be there with the bobcat anyways he gave me a good price on digging out the patio area.
Yes drainage was planned from the beginning-there are hardlines from the area piped to the sump pit and then pumped to the street.
The patio itself won't be concrete we are going to do the flagstone thing for that. The retaining wall-bench is going to be concrete which we will probably face with some kind of rock to make it not look like concrete-like your second picture with the fire pit.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel,
Just saw the latest pics on the blog. Now I get the sunken patio thing. Looking great; exciting progress!
Great the weather held till the foundation was poured. Hope this storm doesn't cause too many problems for you.
Is the radiant floor going to come togther for you?
Wayne
Hello Wayne,
Yea just got a quote from the contractor to do the retaining wall in the shape of a bench thing for the 20by25' area...he wants 10 grand for it wasn't expecting it to be that much... He suggests doing a stamped concrete patio made to look like pavers for an additional 5 grand...getting a bit steep I think...
The inslab PEX is starting to come together for us. Got a local 'expert' who wanted to put in bubble wrap as insulation and charge me $9000 just to tie the tubing to the rebar!!! I just about fainted when I saw that quote. New something was wrong when he said bubble wrap was a fine insulation product.
Got ahold of NRTRob here and he's going to help me out. Sent him the plans and they are doing real heat load calcs and real tubing placement planning, they are supposed to get back to me with a plan on Friday and if I okay it they'll ship out the supplies-diagram-manifold for me on Friday and should be able to do the install next weekend. They are not ready to pour tomorrow anyway so this'll probably set back the pour date only another week not to bad I think.
We were worried about the forecasted humoungous rain storm that's supposed to hit here Friday. 2-5" of rain and 50-70 MPH wind! They've got the place battened down pretty well and worked most of the day to get the sump pit plumbed-finished to handle the expected load...Though I don't have a lot of faith that the blue tarps they've got are going to survive any kind of wind...I'm sure the noise they're making is pissing off the neighbors.
I'm sick as a dog right now but I'll try to start a new thread about the sunken patio idea to get some feedback from the folks here...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Here's a fricken rant for today.
Did you know its absolutely 100% illegal to heat your garage in Alameda!?!?!?!?!!?!!? I'm so agravated right now I could just...geez if I wasn't so sick and burried in work I'd be drinking that's for sure...
Went into the local Building Dept expecting to get a quick over the counter mechanical permit so I can tie the pex tubing to the rebar and they can pour my damn slab on Monday.... No go, no way, you can't have heat in a garage!?!?! Doesn't matter that its also my workshop I have to freeze my butt off all winter cause its a combo use space! I went all the way up to the head of the building dept and the head inspector and still no go.
They say the point of the law is to keep people from illegally converting garages into living space... I looked the head of the building dept straight in the eye and said... Those chumps don't pull permits for their illegal spaces this law is only hurting us honest guys. There is just no good reason that I can't heat my garage....'Well its the law he says and shrugs his shoulders..' stupid fancy-pants suit wanted to grab him by the neck and squeeze till his eyes popped out...arrrrgh!
Have you ever heard of anything so fricken stupid...no conditioning of garage spaces....arrrgh!!!
So I have NRTROB quickly redraw the plans showing no loops in the garage area... Rush back in and the plan check engineer is now telling me that she can't okay just tubing in the slab...she needs to see the entire plan for all three floors of the house, the boiler plan and specs, the gas lines electrical the whole nine yards!!! I look at her...trying not to scream...'just to put tubing in the concrete?
Well maybe George (the head BI) can okay just this part...great where is he? Oh he's out we'll call you when he gets back....
Get a call George is going to allow it hurray!!! But the engineer has noticed that I didn't do the tubing plan....NRTRob's guys have to sign in ink every page they drew...they're on the east coast. I've already had to have them redraw the things three times to make her happy....
Man do I need a beer...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
join the illeagle crowd...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Alameda is cute and all, but boy am I glad I'm in Pleasant Hill, soul-less burb that it is.
My sincere congratulations to you for not incurring a felony assult charge - useless scumbag bureaucrats sucking up all our tax dollars so they can turn around and screw us - ARGH!!!
Any chance you could tell them the desired loops are for cooling instead of heating? Where there's a will...
no conditioning allowed at all heat or cool!
I'm going down there tomorrow and I'm going to argue that the room should be under a different classification. Where I'm allowed to insulate the walls and heat the dang space...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Take a hint from one who has been there. If you want them to change the classification, eliminate the garage door. Or permanently partition off a work space in the garage area.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
You beat me to it...
early in my career I was left in charge of finishing a house while the boss went to Germany. Hanging the final trim and doorknobs waiting for the inspector to do his final. He walks up and hands me a "Red Tag" , need 5/8 fire rock in the 1500 sg. ft. "garage " in the basement. Room was intended as a work shop for casting large concrete pots for gardens and their was an 8" door so as to allow ease of loading a truck . Room had all the mechanicals installed hanging down from the ceiling with no regard for soffits in the planning. Argued till I was blue in the face, showed him where he had signed off on the plans as the plans reviewer threatened , cajoled and everything else I could think of. His reply , "Fix it or get rid of the door" " My signature just means I looked at them , not that I don't make mistakes." I spent the next 2 weeks building soffits and hanging drywall .
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
I had a reviewer tell me i couldn't have steps to an attic space in my shop addition because that made it a second floor and my joists weren't up for it. I said i just wanted to store packing and peanuts up there. No can do. I drywalled the ceiling. When i called for a final, i asked the BI if he thought my ceiling would fall down if i walked up there. He just looked at me and evenly said that he wouldn't know anything about that after he was gone... Put a nice little set of winders there that didn't use up much floor space.And then there's the shop sink that looked a lot like a clawfoot bathtub, LOL...
You buy your ticket and you take your chances. ;-) Over the years I directly cheated inspectors on occasion, have had them show me the cheat , had them hint at the cheat, had them show me how if I alter some part of a project the rules change but have never been forgiven for being caught for outright ignoring the code when it came to enforcement. Wave the flag in the bulls face and expect to get chased, and if you work mostly in one locale like I have, that means you are always playing in the bulls field.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
yea I hear what you are saying... today I went in and pulled the modified permit...This time I talked in person to the head BI.
I told him its a dual use space more workshop than garage and that the wife and I spend countless hours out there building stuff. So I can't condition the space nor can I insulate the walls! I asked if there was a different classification the space could fall under...He seemed sympathetic to my plight but there just does not exist a mixed use classification that would legally allow me to heat it... I don't have the paper here in front of me but I think in CA garages are 'U' type rooms and it being a 'U' type room is what's killing me.
Stupid law, no good reason for it that I can see...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That I can explain for the situation I was in . I think the BI's office already did that for you in your case. The simple explanation that if/when the the house was sold then some new owner would be parking a car in the shop space and it would not have met code for that purpose. (lack of 1 hr. fire protection) In your case it is the reverse, the room would be changed to a "habitable space " and that would violate the codes in your city. Your city must require a garage for dwellings? Or maybe because there was one and this is a "restoration project " you must keep with what is existing.
Would your "garage" have the needed fire exits? Proper ventilation? etc. etc.?
Those are part and parcel of dealing with codes. How many threads here have lamented the shoddy/dangerous code violating work that people here have seen and dealt with ? Yep it sucks, no question. I always am sympathetic the codes, their intent and purpose is to save lives and property, both of those inhabiting the building and those who need to enter buildings for emergency purposes. I grew up in a family of firefighters, several generations long, and knowing the historical reason for specific codes as a result of disasters or intent of the governing body helps me accept the reasons. But as I stated, I have also violated them on occasion. I am no saint.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
In your case it is the reverse, the room would be changed to a "habitable space " and that would violate the codes in your city. Your city must require a garage for dwellings? Or maybe because there was one and this is a "restoration project " you must keep with what is existing. Would your "garage" have the needed fire exits? Proper ventilation? etc. etc.?
Yea i forgot that part. The city requires a certain amount of off-street parking per house. Two spots in tandem is what our house requires (maybe, I didn't want to fight with them about it I think the house is exempt because it was built WAY before those codes)
The 'garage' is all set up with windows, a seperate door to the outside besides the garage door. 1hr fire resistive walls, all the outlets and lights...
The problem seems to be that there is no inbetween with these guys. Either its habitable space or its a garage....
They did say that if I wanted to do a curb cut and pave over our side yard for the two cars in tandem parking that they would probably let me heat the 'shop'. That is IF zoning would let me do that... Don't want to lose the side yard anyways...that's where the wifes veggie garden is going...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
What about....
Radiant heating for the "first floor" living space....
That somehow radiates into the "workshop space" instead?Liberty = Freedom from unjust or undue governmental control.
American Heritage Dictionary
MadMad, Let me suggest against burying the tubes any damn where you please after getting the go ahead to pour, it can cost a hell of a lot to fix that if you are made to, and your sympathetic friends at the local office will be a lot less sympathetic and a lot more diligent in their "eyeballing". Instead think of adding a floor *after* the project is done and you're ready to use the space. A wood floor made to install over a radiant heating mat system is available from several manufacturers; as well, these radiant heating mat systems can be installed under other materials such as high-end linoleum, cork, faux stone, etc..... These systems install easily, look good, do the job and are a lot less costly then tearing up concrete and loss of goodwill. This way you'll definitely have your cake and get to eat it too.
You and Hackinatit both have excellent ideas for dealing with this. I like the overhead heating idea best of all, but either would be preferable to - egad! - tearing up a slab because it's got plastic in it. I just wouldn't take that chance...and i'm pretty gutsy and non-law-abiding.
tearing up a slab because it's got plastic in it. I just wouldn't take that chance
Am I missing something? How is plastic tubing in a slab a violation? If he doesn't have a plan to hook it up to the boiler, then it is just plastic tubing..not a heat source. Therefore he isn't violating the no-heat garage rule. Do they have a rule against putting plastic tubing in concrete? And once the crete is in, what is he looking at, maybe two tubes sticking up out of the crete? All the rest is invisible.
I realize it may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but listening to all the other replies, it would seem that splitting hairs is exactly how you can get around some of the silly rules without actually violating any ordinance.jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
Probably no rule against plastic in a slab, only bec no one puts it in without intending to use it. It normally pisses people off to be thought of as stupid, so i'd assume they'd make him pay now or pay later. No telling...but it's a gamble.
Let me suggest against burying the tubes any damn where you please after getting the go ahead to pour, it can cost a hell of a lot to fix that if you are made to, and your sympathetic friends at the local office will be a lot less sympathetic and a lot more diligent in their "eyeballing".
How is putting tubing in concrete a violation? His original plan called for radiant heating in the slab in the garage. They said he couldn't put heating in there. OK, so the plan removed it. Just so happens he has tubing in the garage concrete. If it isn't hooked up to a boiler, then it isn't a heating system.
The question is, is there a rule against just putting tubing into concrete?jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
JT8, I think the point is to end up with a heated space, preferably a heated floor.
The project still has a long way to go, choosing at this point to do what might lead to degrading working relationships with those that have to be dealt with is counterproductive and likely adds expense. Especially if a later inspection requires re-doing the slab or making "permanently inoperative" the tubing. And you still don't get a heated space. I'm not onsite but a smarter choice might be to choose to fight a better battle. Especially when a perfectly good alternative gets you what you want and saves whatever goodwill you have to fight a battle that might have no alternatives. "Keep your eyes on the prize", is another way its been stated, focus on the end-product not the distractions.
"U" = "unconditioned", of any sort...
Here's an update;
Got the radiant tubing inspected yesterday and the inspector okay'd the install and gave us the okay to cover. Funny the inspector didnt' know squat about what he was looking at I had to explain it to him. He didn't even look at the pressure gauge-hadn't lost a psi in 3 days! Talked to him about the not heating and insulating the garage. He tells me he's running into the same problem with a house he owns in the next city over. He's going to go back in there and insulate and run heating ducts after the final! He agrees that its a silly law that only hurts honest homeowners...
The wife took the day off work and is at home installing the rest of the inslab PEX tubing and we should be ready to pour tomorrow. The contractor has scheduled the pour for Friday so hopefully this foundation project will be all done by then! It'll be nice to be able to park the motorcycles out of the rain and be able to park the car in the driveway!
The rear sunken patio thing is sorta on hold. My foundation guy really doesn't want to do it (not his specialty) so I can respect that. He's still gotta excavate the area and put in tempory shoring and do deck piers at the new lower level. I've been talkign to a couple local conrete places that appear to specialize in decorative concrete and they'll all do the work for much cheaper than what my foundation guy quoted me (I think he was adding in a PITA factor). Now seems to be their slow time so they all appear to be hungry. I hope that's going to work to my advantage.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Congratulations on that big step! I saw that on the blog last night - don't ya just love it when the instrumentation causes the error! Sounds painfully familiar:-)
Yahoo!!! the concrete is poured!!! I'm so glad its done! And the pex inslab tubing is still holding its pressure!!! Thank god, we were so worried about that...
Here's some pics!
View Image
Love that shot of the house dirty and covered in tarps! Maybe that's why the place across the street isn't selling...
View Image
This is a shot of them filling the stair forms...got three concrete steps where we used to only have two... The guy in the blue is the concrete pumper sub...man I want that job. He just walks around behind the guys handling the hose and controls the flow remotely from that gizmo on his belt! He hardly even got dirty!!
Finishing the stairs.
Here's a shot of pumping the concrete...I'm really supprised they didn't screw up the tubing...guess the stuff is stronger than it looks...
My wife calls this shot teamwork! I call it grimey work in the high 30's....brrrrrr
Doing some finishing...they gave us what they call a 'mirror' finish in the shop area. Wonder how long I have to wait to use a two part epoxy paint on the floor?
Here there pumping the concrete into the sidwalk and driveway.
I know I'm not a concrete expert but I really loved how they made the new concrete in the sidewalk match the old. It looks like its been there for 100yrs. Which is good cause I'm not sure we had permission to break up the citys sidewalk...
Here's a shot of them finishing the new side stairs. Its only 2 steps down.
Overall I think it went well. There was enough concrete over the tubing that none of it was exposed-even in the expansion joints. Can't fricken wait to be able to park the car in the driveway and park the motorcycles in the garage out of the rain. The finishers made us promise to wait a while to do that so we wouldn't mess up their fine finish....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/4/2008 1:40 am by madmadscientist
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Sweet!
How many yards did it come in at?zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
You know I don't know... it was 4 trucks worth.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That's a lot of mud. Around 30 yards, I think- I've heard that 8 is a full truck, though they will go a bit more if they're on flat ground. I'm not a concrete guy though.
Congratulations- a big pour without a disaster is definitely something to be happy about.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Some trucks hold 9 or 10. It depends on what kind of truck and what the local/state DOT will allow. You can most often tell if a truck is full by just looking at it's tires - you will see that they are slightly "squished down". That's some serious PSF.
>> I really loved how they made the new concrete in the sidewalk match the old. It looks like its been there for 100yrs. <<
Care to expand on that?
>> Which is good cause I'm not sure we had permission to break up the citys sidewalk... << Here we need a ROW permit and inspection, to mess with any concrete in the ROW, but this is a very local thing so I wouldn't be too concerned. They want to make sure the subgrade is properly compacted and that the portion of the sidewalk that driveway is 6" thick. The apron is 6" with a new rule requiring the "wings" to be 8". Regular ROW sidewalk is a full 4". We also need a roadwork performance bond to do this work - It's something you buy from an insurance company that cost $100 a year or so.
>> I really loved how they made the new concrete in the sidewalk match the old. It looks like its been there for 100yrs. <<
Care to expand on that?
Well like I said I'm no concrete expert. All the old sidewalks in our area have a finish which is I believe called 'exposed aggregate'. Where you can see the pebbles and what not at the surface. It gives the surface more traction I believe. The finish they did on the new sidewalk matches that pretty exactly and they look 'rough' like they're not brand new.
Sorry no pics of the sidewalk on me.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
>> I really loved how they made the new concrete in the sidewalk match the old. It looks like its been there for 100yrs. <<
Care to expand on that?
Okay today I asked them. After the sidewalk concrete has been finished and set for a while they just hit it with a hose to 'knock off the cream'. They exposes the aggregate and makes it look worn and not new and crisp.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Which is good cause I'm not sure we had permission to break up the citys sidewalk...
WHAT?! You didn't have the "44-55193-2-19 Demolition of Public easement" permit?! Well I'm afraid all that new concrete is going to have to come out. And prior to that you'll need the permit for concrete destruction, the permit for concrete removal, the permit for driving off with the broken up concrete, and then a permit to put up plastic tape around the area where the concrete was removed, and then a permit to remove the plastic tape, a permit for a study on how to replace the removed concrete, a permit from the Sierra Club allowing your choice of gravel UNDER the concrete ('green' gravel), a permit to allow the concrete truck to stop in the road in front of the house, a permit for the public easement, and then a permit for the 2" of proposed new concrete that is actually on your own property. And then if you're going with the exposed aggregate, you'll need that permit... depending of if they're using the 5/8", 3/4", or 5/6" aggregate, or a -99 which would allow the use of any two sizes of aggregate.
(sure glad I don't have to deal with your permit people. I still say the crete looks good)jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
you forgot the permit to apply for a permit. Can't get a permit until you get a permit to request permits.
You're in the wrong office for that permit. It's down the hall. But they're only open from noon to 2, so you'll have to come back tomorrow.
;)
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Don't they take lunch !!!
Yes, from noon to 1.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
M-F? or just a few and they'll let you know on Monday which days they will be open. Show up in person Mon AM so we can tell you we're not open Monday.
Yes, I know we said on Monday that we'd be open today, but we hadn't counted on the snow. We can't come in to the office if its snowing, can we?
I'm sure it's snowing somewhere.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
You forgot the permit for getting permits. You have to have one of those, right? And a license to get permits.
I think you guys have seen Brazil like a zillion too many times...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
did you get a permit to post that?
You know its funny you mention a permit to block the street with the concrete trucks...
The night before we tried to block the front of the house to leave room for the pumper and concrete trucks. Neighbor across the street moves our trash cans out of the way so she can park there....well come 8am she's blocked in by the pumper guys equipment and an unloading concrete truck.
She storms over and demands we halt all operations so she can get her car out. Screaming about how we need a permit to block the street and what not.... well they wouldn't stop in the middle of a load so she had to wait.....
Don't think we are her fav neighbors... course she's not ours either as she hinted that she didn't like our motorcycles parked on the street and that it would be too bad if she knocked one over while parking....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Don't think we are her fav neighbors... course she's not ours either as she hinted that she didn't like our motorcycles parked on the street and that it would be too bad if she knocked one over while parking....
Oh, man...that kind of person really makes me grit my teeth. Guess she doesn't know that license plate on the rear fender makes it a street legal vehicle just like any car or truck.
I realize you and dw are planning on spending MANY years in this house, but after dealing with the permit people and some of the neighbors, has the thought ever (for the briefest of seconds) flittered through the back of your mind that you could finish the house, sell it (and make a lot of $$), and find a friendlier area?
Or maybe it is just the CA "friendliness" that I'm not familiar with. Or maybe its just me, because I often think I would be best suited with a house smack in the middle of 100 acres out in the boondocks. :)jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Naw, its really only the one neighbor that gives us grief... I think that she's just old and grumpy and needs something to kvetch about.
The rest of the neighbors are great. Bring you baked goods at the holidays good. Having big neighborhood holiday potlucks on Christmas and July 4th good.
The zoning-planning dept is just something that I have had to accept.... Did figure out that the head permit tech also owns a restaurant in town with her husband. We've had a couple of meals there now and every time I've chatted with her... Now I make sure to get her as my tech and the last couple of things I needed done happened with a lot less hassle...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
heh heh, sounds like mad is learning the fine art of diplomacy.
Peach full,easy feelin'.
So why copper on the water lines?
[edit to add] garage door looks nice.
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Edited 2/15/2008 5:29 pm by JohnT8
I had to do a quick re-routing of the main water line so the guys could install the new garage door. I am planning on ordering the Wirsbro system with the expanded collars online and couldn't make the timing work.
That and my lovely local building dept can't seem to get their story straight about PEX being okay or not......gotta love those guys...
Wait till they see our awesome sunken living room-patio....getting poured this weekend. It technically does not require a permit but I bet I'm pushing the limits on it for sure...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Did you get the drainage figured out on the patio?
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Boy did we ever...
We are basically doing a 'footing' drain along the outside base of the benches which will be tied into an underslab drain-field. All this and the on slab area drain is tied into the perimeter footing drain on one side of the house. Hopefully the extra water flowing into this drain will not overwhelm the sump pit and pump. I am a bit concerned as this all the patio water is funneling into this perf line and I hope that most of it makes it straight to the sump pit and doesn't leak out to get drained by the houses under slab drain pipes.
Other option is to set another sump-pit in the corner of the patio under the stairs and pump the water up to a seperate hardline that drains the roof gutters to the street via gravity.
Here's a shot of the retaining wall
View Image
after 2 weeks with no rain the grounds reasonably solid...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 2/18/2008 8:51 pm by madmadscientist
Option #2. Do not combine the house footing drain and the patio drain. If the footing drain ever plugs, collapses or it's pump goes out you will be having real problems. Imagine if you will a power outage during a very heavy rain storm. Lots of water coming into the sump from your patio and no pump to get it out. Set up a separate pump and line that hard pipes to the street.
Edited 2/18/2008 8:58 pm by dovetail97128
yea my fear exactly. The main house sump pump is going to get upgraded to a battery back-up system just in case. If the power goes out and I have two dead pumps I'll still be screwed once the patio starts to fill with water as the back door is only going to be a couple of inches about the patio...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I know of a pumping system that uses house water pressure as the backup. System has a supply from the incoming water main run through a "Jet Pump" venturi and the house flow is regulated by a simply float valve. It "suctions" the water out of the sump. Uses lots of water to pump but is a fail safe method in an emergency.What I don't know is where to buy one. Seems easy enough to have a good plumber make one up though.
Edited 2/18/2008 9:39 pm by dovetail97128
Daniel, would you possibly email me a contact for the people that did your stamped concrete? I have about 300 sq ft that I would like done. Tried to email you by your profile, but it won't go through. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Here's an update on our project.
We've been kinda stalled out lately but we are getting back into the swing of things. We've been installing staple up radiant heating and boy is it ever a PITA...I've got a forest of nails from the thin strip oak flooring that has to be ground smooth so the thin-fin will seat flush with the underside of the sub-floor.
We interviewed a bunch of design-build places and that's just not the way we are going to go. Can't seem to get the cost-benefit ratio to work for us since we are used to doing it almost all ourselves.
If we can find a designer who will help us come up with an over all plan for the entire house that would be ideal. We still havent figured out the kitchen or the top floor master bedroom retreat thing...
Here's the most recent post my wife did on her blog.
Sunday, May 18, 2008
back to the grind..
View ImageAnother full day of grinding nails and stapling up aluminum thin fins, and we're still not done with either.<-- Check out how filthy we are, and this was only in about the middle of the day! But those dust masks are doing a great job.. as dirty as they look in this picture, the air we were breathing was nice and fresh. And sweaty.. But aren't our his and hers grinders cute?? We went to pick up another grinder so both of us could cut off nails at the same time, and the Bosch 4.5 incher we were looking at was buy one get one free!! Someday we'll have some free time to play with metal again, and an extra grinder (or two) will come in handy. Meanwhile, the new grinders View Imagewent much faster than the 4" Makita we have..The irony of installing heat in the middle of a heat wave hasn't been lost on us.. but come January this place better be toasty!Just past Dan in this picture is the bumpout in the living room, which extends past the downstairs wall by about 3'. We were thinking we might need to pry off the exterior siding underneath it to cutoff the nails and staple up the fins, but Dan was able to reach pretty far out with the grinder. We might need to expose the last foot or so, but we'll see if we can't get it all done without opening up the exterior.One thing we noticed today was how the little scaldingly hot bits of nails we're cutting off look just like little rat turds falling from the ceiling. It brings back the whole nightmare of pulling down the ceilings in a shower of rat poop, with the extra bonus of getting burned by them as they fall!!View ImageI started on the other side of the room, and worked towards where Dan has been..I made it back to where Dan had started, so I thought we were done with the nails and picked up my friend, the pneumatic staple gun.. turns out that was wishful thinking, and 2 joist bays over was another forest of nails. But Dan took pity on me and finished that off while I stapled up fins.View ImageI got through most of the rest of the hallway and the bathroom, and then we had a little stream of neighbors stopping by to say hello and give us a pep talk. We just couldn't bring ourselves to lift our arms anymore, so we called it a day. Man, we're out of shape!We've had a few people come by to talk about the kitchen.. one was a design-build company to get an idea of how much it would cost to have someone come in and do everything. During the course of the conversation though, we started realizing a) just how far along we are, and how there's not really as much as we thought to be decided on, and b) how little there really is for someone else to do. Breaking the job down into the chunks we'd want them to do it got down to such a small bit that would still cost so much that it's just not going to happen.We also had an interior designer come by, who we may see if she's interested in doing just some sketches for us. We're more interested in the ideas than a full design package for the whole house.. plus, we were a little put off that when we tried to show her the scrapbook of pictures from our old house to give her an idea of our style and what we were capable of building, she had no interest in it at all.We did have a couple of ideas for making more space in the kitchen, but that'll be a post for another day.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
View Image
one, two, three, three, four...
Here's the first post she did about it...it was a good excuse to buy the 2 pack of bosch 4.5" grinders though...
Sunday, May 11, 2008
Up goes the Heat
View ImageAll the parts for our 2nd floor heat came.. I'm bummed I didn't think about taking a picture when I got home from work to see 10 boxes busted open along the side of the house. Every single box was broken open, and several had their contents spilling out into the dirt. Yup, that would've been a good picture..Basically, we need to staple these thin plates of aluminum, called thin fins up onto the underside of the floor. They have tracks that the tubing fits into, which hold it up and radiates the heat.View ImageSounds simple enough.. but here's a shot of the underside of the floor. See all those little pointy bits sticking down?? Those are nails. Lots and lots of nails. Which would hold the thin fin out from the floor and keep it from working nearly as well as it needs to. The aluminum needs to fit tightly against the floor to transfer the heat efficiently.So all the nails need to be cut flush with the wood.Wire nippers cut the nails, but they left little bits hanging out.View ImageSo Dan got to spend the entire day grinding nails.Lots and lots of nails.little nailseverywhereThe nails are coming down through the thin strip oak floors we have in the front two "formal" rooms of the house.View ImageMeanwhile, on the other side of the house..I was able to start stapling up the thin fins under the entryway and in the hallway. I drew out the outline in chalk (no need to heat under the walls or stairs) and fired up the air compressor.We're supposed to use 16 gauge staples, but our staple gun can only handle 18 gauge.. so it was pretty hit or miss getting the staples to go in cleanly. I kept trying to find the one way to hold the gun so it would work every time.. but no luck. Much as I fought with that thing today, it was still waaay better than a hand powered staple gunView ImageThe tubing needs to be 8" on center, and we get 2 in each joist bay which will carry a loop of tubing.I got through the entryway and most of the hallway today before I was ready to drop. Apparently it's been so long since we've done actual physical work on the house that we're total wimps again! (In our defense, I'm getting over a cold and Dan's coming down with it.. so we're not at our best.. but still, we've got to ramp back up the housework action!)View ImageAnd Dan's still grinding away at those nails.. there are still a lot of nails. After 8 hours of grinding there's still a lot of evenings after work to go.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
You'vecome a long way baby!
Getting into the fun stuff soon.
one, two, three, three, four...
Finished grinding off the last damn nail today!!! Yippee!!!
Now I get to worry about running the electrical while wifey-poo staples up the thinfin.
I might even get to start on the whole house repiping in PEX before my birthday!!!! Happy B-day to me, Happy B-day to meeeeeeeee
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Go Man Go!But don't be slow.Or yer hit a snag and that's a drag.
So harness allthose BTUsto fuel yer passionthru and thru
to keep the pushongoing strongdon't grow laxor yer be wrong
be lightening strikecomplete with thunderdon't stop to breakor that'd be blunder
go lighteninggo thunderand be a warm rain
Dan
Sorta makes you wonder if you shouldnt have bought new huh! That grinding does not even look fun.
I have an old place as well and its real easy stalling out for a month at a time, need to get motivated but while everybody else is out fishing I'm here trying to insulate an attic and looking forward to a reroof, yippie.
Doug
Sorta makes you wonder if you shouldnt have bought new huh! That grinding does not even look fun.
I have an old place as well and its real easy stalling out for a month at a time, need to get motivated but while everybody else is out fishing I'm here trying to insulate an attic and looking forward to a reroof, yippie.
There is something funny about working on heat during a heat-wave.
Well no it doesnt make us want new house. We couldn't of afforded a similarily sized new house in the same neighborhood.
The financial realites have finally sunken in with the wife. She added up what we've spent on the house so far versus what we would spend if we had a design-build firm come in and finish it versus what we could sell the house for in this down market....
The numbers didn't work so we'll be doing the bulk of the work ourselves (as originally planned).
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I have an old place as well and its real easy stalling out for a month at a time, need to get motivated but while everybody else is out fishing I'm here trying to insulate an attic and looking forward to a reroof, yippie.
I'm often wondering about the choices I seem to constantly be making. That lead to me burning my evenings and weekends slaving away on home renovation instead of fishing or other such entertaining activities.
It gets so bad that even when I take a day off, I don't know how to relax. But if I do relax, it can be hard to get back into the swing of things.
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
I'm often wondering about the choices I seem to constantly be making. That lead to me burning my evenings and weekends slaving away on home renovation instead of fishing or other such entertaining activities.
It gets so bad that even when I take a day off, I don't know how to relax. But if I do relax, it can be hard to get back into the swing of things.
This might just be my WASPy upbringing and the whole protestant work ethic thing but I find that I'm always happier doing something than sitting around on my butt getting fatter. I don't love the stressful crunch times and we do take a night off on a regular basis to watch and netflick and get drunk. Any Will Farell comedy is brillant after 3 drinks and its a great way to shut your brain off and relax.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
OK, it has been 10 months since you posted to this thread, so I assume the house is all finished and you're basking in the boredom of not having something to work on? Is the baby here yet?!
LOL, just kidding. I happened to see you post in another thread and had to click on your blog to get the update on the house. But I don't see April updates?
Noticed you using cans of foam a few months' blog back... If you're still foaming stuff, I'd suggest a foam gun. I've got the Dow14
http://building.dow.com/na/en/products/specialty/pro14gun.htm
View Image
IIRC, it was around $40. There is a model that is cheaper and one that is more expensive. The cans that screw on to the guns are bigger than the regular 'straw' foam cans. They have the orange (fire resistant or whatever) foam that I use for most applications (it cuts nicely with an old flush cut Sawzall blade), yellow foam for doors and windows, an adhesive foam (I havent' used) and then they have cans of cleaner. The foam is around $8/can on sale (20-24oz can?) or regular price of $10. Our local Menards chain carries them, but I think it is a Midwest chain.
The foam-gun foam isn't any cheaper than 'straw' can foam, but I can screw on a can and just use it when I want to foam something. I often leave a can on for months at a time. VERY handy to just be able to foam a single crack without having to come up with a use for a whole can like I did with the 'straw' cans.
There are other brands of foam guns, but I'm not familiar with them.
jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
Here ya go it has been a while...babys coming home tomorrow and I still don't have the fricken heat up and running....its making me feel like a complete jacka$$ for not getting it done before the baby comes home from the hospital....
Friday, April 24, 2009
We Got Inspected!
Okay so its been awhile since we've done any work or posted anything to the blog...you see we have this other project that got started a little bit earlier than expected and well....that ones a gonna take precedence from here on out....And though nothing got finaled (except for the lame-o earthquake valve) it was a good experience with the building inspector.View Image The Radiant System passed its Pressure Test! First off I want to talk about this fricken radiant heating system and chasing down leaks... Its only supposed to leak where you connect the red tubing to the manifolds and yes we did have some leaks there but those were found and fixed in short order. The leaks that really blew me away...click on the pic for a bigger version. Everywhere where there is a red asterisk there was a leak in the valve body or from the packing nut in the valve! These are supposed to be quality made in the USA webstone valves and a bunch of them were leaking from their casting marks!!! Once I realized this I had to go thru every single inch of the control panel piping with soapy water and check every single blasted thing....this took a loooooooooong time and I had to do it several times. When I would find a leak at a casting mark I would mix up some clear epoxy and paint it on. I'm sure its not an official cure but I'm not going to fricken take this crazy-#### control board apart to replace the valves...Yes I'm a lot annoyed about it...
In the pic the entire thing is hooked up and ready to go. It finally holds air 80psi and the inspector gave us the go-ahead to fire it up!! Course I have no idea how to do that as its complicated as heck and all computer controlled and what not...going to have to do some serious RTFM'ing. At least the weather has turned cold again so now we're motivated to get it done. It was in the 90's here a couple of days last week and wow hard to work up the energy to finish a heating system in that kind of weather... The Tankless Heater Passed its inspection!! The inspector saw our old jury rigged heater and was like, 'Geez you gotta get that outta here..' You've heard of spaghetti programing? Well here's spaghetti plumbing! Actually those white lines are temporary PEX lines to tie the new tankless WH into the house lines. Its soooo nice not to have to worry about running out of hot water when we shower...we both realized that showering had become stressful because we were always worried about running out or the next person running out of hot water. How silly showers should be the opposite of stressful. I was worried that the tankless was going to be loud when it fires but standing outside near the vent it just sounds like a dryer venting really. Or neighbor has a Noritz model externally mounted and you can hear that thing from the sidewalk its loooooud.
View ImageThe Gas Lines Passed their Pressure Test!! I don't have any clever pictures of non leaking gas lines to show you so I thought I'd show you version uh, 3.0 of the fire pit. Now its plumbed with nat gas from our main line!!! I built a new burner out of 5/8 flex copper tubing and think it came out pretty well. The flame is nice and even. One thing though, house pressure is 1/2psi and we were running the thing at 9psi earlier...not sure if its going to put out enough heat...but hey, no tanks to ice up so it'll be a constant all night long heat. We'll just have to build more heat producing are pieces to keep us warm in the backyard when the sun goes down.
One ominous thing the inspector said was.... 'Doing the framing inspection on this house is going to be interesting.....' Yikes I'm worried... We kinda F'd up the schedule you get the framing passed before you go putting in plumbing and whatnot in the joists...its possible that they could make us fix some chewed up joists and that would mean pulling out the rad tubing that goes thru every single joist in the house.....I think I better get a framing inspection before I do anymore plumbing....yikes..
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel, Its my understanding you can't get a framing inspection before plumbing and electrical for the very reason that they want to make sure the plumbers and electricians don't butcher up the framing members.
The inspector's comment is strange, but if he saw a problem I think he would have spoken up.
I wonder how others on the board here would feel about that comment? Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
I agree with the sequence of inspection, that is the standard here. You can call and get a courtesy framing to have any major assembly errors caught however. The comment might have just been an honest appraisal of the difficulty of tracking load paths, size and locations of holes bored etc in a whole house remodel as is the case here.
I would have simply taken it that way and agreed , maybe asked if he wanted to do a quick walk through on the spot and tell me if he saw any problems I could fix ahead of time, or cautions I should know of.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
maybe asked if he wanted to do a quick walk through on the spot and tell me if he saw any problems I could fix ahead of time, or cautions I should know of.
Agreed. Maybe next time he is out there. Start building a positive relationship.
Mike
Small wheel turn by the fire and rod, big wheel turn by the grace of god.
Ya I have been trying to do that with the inspectors...I've had a diff BI every time? I didnt think that there were that many on the payroll here in little alameda! Though I was floored to read in the local rag that the island has 70,000 people on it? WOW!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Probably won't do any good, but I'd fire off a testy email to whatever company manufactured the bad valves. jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
Saturday, May 2, 2009
We Have Heat!!!!! Ya-Hoooooooooooo
We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!We Have Heat!!!! We Have Heat!!!!Can you tell that we are a little bit excited? Its only, oh, 6 months late but we got the radiant heating system up and running a couple of days ago and maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan is it nice to have heat...We've lived in this drafty, under-insulated, leaky window'd Victorian for two winters now and wow the difference is just amazing. When its in the mid 30's and all you have is a couple of 1500Watt space heaters to keep warm...wow that's just not very fun. We could really only keep the bathroom, our bedroom and the family room warmish-when it was cold only the tiny bathroom would get actually warm. Gone are the days of it being 45 deg in the kitchen.
Lets talk for a minute about radiant heating and its super awesomeness. There are no floor registers to take up space. There are no ugly duct lines running everywhere. There are no drafts. The floor is 'warm'. Now this is a low temp water system where the water never gets above 110 deg F so the floors aren't 'hot' but they are warm. Its hard to explain but I'll try. In the past when we've walked on the floors in our socks they were COLD. The cold would just emanate from them and chill you thru your feet. Now, the floors are warm and they warm you thru your feet. Its an even warm which is also super amazing. Every room is evenly warm-there are no hot spots, no cold spots its just evenly warm and soooooooooooooo nice. We have to admit we are fricken in love with this heating system.
Have to give props to the guys at North East Radiant Technology it appears that they've designed a system that is working at advertised.
Now as to the question of whether or not it was worth the amazing amounts of hassle and the extra expense compared to a forced air furnace......the jury's still out on that one. But it is super nice to be able to take your preemie baby into any part of the house and not have to worry if its too cold for her. That right there might be priceless.
So I tried filling the system after the pressure test without following any sort of directions...It did not go super well. I plumbed the fill valve into the hot water line from our tankless heater instead of the cold water supply line...I got a ton of air trapped in the system and it didn't work...after a looooong call to my radiant designer it was determined that I had everything hooked up right but that all that trapped air was tripping the pressure head bypass (that black cylinder next to my right hand). I was going to have to bleed the thing the right way to get it to work. Here's me going at it the right way using the hose and bleeding each individual loop separately.. Ya there was a ton of air still in the lines and I went thru like geez a couple hundred gallons of water.Notice all the water on the floor and my wet shoes...one of those almost full 55 gal trash cans tipped over part way and got a lot of water everywhere. After I got the system bled I found out I had to set a couple of secret parameters on the boiler and Tekmar control systems so that they would talk to each other...wasted a cold wet tired evening of banging my head against the wall on that one...but I got it figured out and now the boiler and fancy-pants controls are talking like old friends.
These little dealys are the flow meters and flow control valves for each loop. This is before I adjusted them all so some have no flow. You adjust them by putting that red cap on top and twisting them to either decrease or increase flow. The amazing thing about this is, that the flow thru the loops is mostly set at .2-.6 GPM? Man that's nothing it seems like?
Here is the control panel for the boiler. This is where I had to set the secret parameter. Right now its showing that the boiler is in stand-by mode and the water circulating thru it is at 98 deg F. The hard to read dial on the right is the pressure in the system which is reading slightly more than 10psi. It should probably be at 12psi so I might have to add some more water to the system. Whats amazing is how quiet this thing is..at full blast you hardly hear anything from it.
Here is the super-fabulous TekMar 420 boiler control thingy. The control panel says that the boiler is firing, the circulator pump is running, that the boiler is modulated down to 18% and that only one zone is requesting heat.
Here is what the valves look like when they are open. The top pops and you see the thick blue line. This shows that loops 5&6 are circulating which corresponds to the zone shown on the controller above. This is the kitchen-sun room zone.
These two temperature dials show the outgoing water temp (to the loops) and the incoming water temp (from all the loops). It show that there is a temp difference of ~20 deg which is right.
View Image Here's the cool co-axial exhaust of the boiler. Even at full blast its way quieter than the tankless water heater. It makes a low-quiet moaning sound that I hope my neighbors can't hear. Though it does sorta make the area sound haunted.
Don't worry that wood above is just temp. We thru that up to block the breeze from whipping thru there and up thru the floorboards.
One thing thats a little wacky is that we can not insulate the thin-fins yet. Since this is radiant heat the heat radiates evenly in all directions. The AL plates help the heat to radiate upward more but still there is a lot of heat coming down. Last night with no heat on on the bottom floor it was a toasty 67 deg down there. Not ideal but hey it was 71 deg upstairs!
View ImageView Image
And for a final picture here is a wonderful shot of what the temp is in the front part of the house. Yep 70 deg!!!
These thermostats are great cause at the press of a button they also tell you what the outside temp is. Well at least I think thats great. So you can go, look its 45 deg outside and a nice even toasty 70 deg inside.
It truly is a great thing having lived without heat for so long to have this. Used to be we would know exactly how cold it was outside just by standing in our hallway. Now we open the front door and are shocked, shocked I tell you, at how cold it is. In fact I think that after the loooooong cold wet evening of getting the system up and running I might of shed a small tear as I opened the front door for the first time and it was WARM!
YAY WARM!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyone who want's is welcome to come over and walk around in their socks to experience the super-wonderfulness of radiant heat. Just make sure its a day thats actually cold outside and that we'll you know, be home...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
um, Daniel.... it's SUMMER. What about AC?
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
Hey its been freezing here at night like in the high 40's low 50's....course as I type this its like 73 deg outside....
Cooling is an interesting point....we're not sure if we need it or what. Probably only like maybe 2 weeks out of the year is it uncomfortably hot here...
I am going back and forth about this with the designer from the design-build firm. I'm concerned that even with the decent insulation (closed cell spray foam) the top floor of the house is going to be an oven during the summer. I can't sleep when its hot and I surely would hate to go thru all of this and have my bedroom not be cool enough when its hot out.
Thought maybe a mini-split system might be the answer for upstairs. Just cool the bedrooms and the system should heat them also? Not radiant though...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Daniel,
Just read the other blog - no wonder we haven't heard from you in a while! Natasha's a real cutie, and it's pretty obvious she picked awesome parents. Congratulations!
By the way, great call on the infant CPR course. DW's a flight attendant and so has been trained. We were hanging out at her daughter's house the day after the granddaughter came home, not much more than 24 hours old. DW walked by the cirb and noticed something wasn't right. Chloe was turning purple and not breathing. DW went into rescue mode - took a couple of tries but she got the motor running again. The rest of us didn't have a clue as to what to do. Turns out with really fast birth's they can spit up some amneonic fluid and gag on it. Anyway, Chloe's 7 now and totally awesome. To think we were minutes away from never getting to know her!
Wayne
Oh My God its Going to Cost How Much??...Part eleventy-ten
This is going to be a fun post.... So we had what is called a 'trade walkthru'. That's were the Winnans team gets all the subs to come to the house and gives them a set of plans and they get to walk thru the place to see things for themselves and then they give a firm hard bid. At this time the structural engineer also walked through the place to check out the situation and he came up with his own set of plans for the roof framing.
View ImageTo refresh, here is the kitchen plan that we have basically settled on.
View ImageHere is the top floor plan also.
View Image Here's the exterior renders showing the roof and the areas that need to be shingled.
Winnans takes all the bids from the subs and itemizes them all out along with their costs and does up a big itemized budget.
Can you guess how much it was for the whole she-bang??
$472,738.35!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pretty much right in line with the other three highend guys who's off the cuff numbers were about $500,000....
Here's a breakdown on the numbers.
Top floor total = 313,787.54
Kitchen = 156,309.32
Deck = 1899.09
Living room drywall = 742.40
Here's a further breakdown:
Winnans Project mgt. fees and some cleaning, hauling = $19,514.15
Demolition = $9062.50- this appears to be everything that has to be torn off even the roof shingles and sheathing which I would think normally would be in the roofers bid?
Rough Carpentry = $44,286 This includes doing the cathedral ceiling on the top floor and the two new dormers.
Insulation = $21,822.50 I spec'd close cell spray foam and I know its expensive but this number reeks of 'hey its the new green thing lets stick it too em'. There is a dearth of spray foam installers in this area and I bet with a little work I can get this number down a lot. I think this is just for the foam on the top floor not even the bottom floor or the kitchen area!!! Don't know how many board feet of foam this is but its for 5.5" of foam in a 'hot roof' configuration.
Roofing= $26,674- This is for a 50yr roof and shingling the dormer sidewalls...I'm not even sure if this includes new gutters which we absolutely need...This seems really high we got a quote for $16,000 for just the roof when we first moved in. And this does not include the roof tear-off!?!?!
Windows= $22,270.90-I don't know if this is just to buy the windows or to buy them and install them?
Skylights= $4,868.24 This is for two Velux Skylights...I hope this includes the install...
Drywall= $11,191.78 This is just the upstairs...
Paint= $4,350 This is just for one coat of primer for the upstairs...
Scaffold= $7,250.00 this is for scaffold rental...kinda bugs me that they don't have their own? and its really just to make their lives easy....
Plumbing = $28,891.25 - Just for the top floor...the 2 baths, tankless water heater, and laundry area...wow
HVAC= $2,617.25 This is just for the 2 bath exhaust vents....
Electrical = $15,667.25 -all the lights, outlets etc.
Tile= $16,269.00 for the 2 baths plus the MB shower.
Allowances = $50,000 this is for all the fixtures and what not.
Remember now kids that's all just for the top floor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So wow, we were dumbstruck to say the least....and the project mgr at Winnans knows this is way outta our budget...we told them our budget to finish the entire house including the landscaping and exterior repainting was $300,000.... now what the heck are we going to do?
We talked with Amy the Winnans project mgr. about some sort of a compromise. They are going to look into doing the ceiling on the top floor in a different way. If we can maybe just raise the collar ties instead of doing the full cathedral (which we knew going in was always going to be the most expensive option and that we told them they needed to figure it both ways....)
So what we talked about with Amy is to figure out what work Winnans can do (they do their own rough and finish carpentry) vs. what we are going to have to do ourselves.
Here's our first pass: What Winnans will do.
The Demolition-on both floors.
The Rough Carpentry-on both floors.
Roofing-we would sub this out anyways.
Installing all the new windows, doors, and skylights.
That would leave us with everything else...the plumbing, electrical, tilework,painting,heating.
Even doing that cut down amount the cost would be $160,217 if I did the math right...this is basically the cost for Winnans to 'shell' the house.
So, after $160,000 spent we'd have a house that won't look any different than the one we have now to the untrained observer...and a house that is not really 'livable' and using their numbers is going to need hundreds of thousands of dollars of work still....yay!
As we see it we have two options. We've already paid Winnans to produce 'permit ready' drawings. I can take these drawings and shop them out to other contractors with less overhead to see if I can get it done cheaper or we go with Winnans and have them do the above work. Either way we are going to be stuck doing a large portion of the work ourselves....stupid reality...problem is, we don't really have time to play GC nor do we really want to. We really seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place here...we can't afford to have them do it all yet we don't have the time to do it ourselves...
This might be a case of a high-end high-service place with higher overhead and bigger margins-higher margins that I'm sure include the subs they use.
I feel compelled to note one troubling thing about working with Winnans Construction so far....they've never met a deadline or stayed within a budget....They went over the designing budget by ~40% and this entire house remodel is over by about the same amount...not sure what to make of that ya know?
So, that's it for now hope everyone has a good memorial day weekend and remember to hug a veteran on Monday.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
WOW!!!!!!!!!!
Ya I agree. The design build firm checks my wifes house blog so it will be interesting to see their reaction to me posting those numbers...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Can you get Huck, Sphere, Seeyou, and some others here to team up?Frenchy needs some work too.
Don't I wish these guys were on this coast.... I have yet to find a contractor here that even reads FHB or JLC...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I think Huck is close.
I checked, he's in Bakersfield.
Edited 5/25/2009 10:54 pm ET by Dam_inspector
Unfortunately, if those guys were on this coast (at least in the Bay Area) they'd have to charge a whole heck of a lot more to live here, or for the hideous commute to where they could afford to live...
I hear ya, starting to think about the bathrooms and don't want to drop a fortune but I also want them to last another 40 years.
Here's the lead carp's lunchtime reading on my job - I had the same impression you did so I had to document it!
View Image
Edited 5/25/2009 11:58 pm by wrudiger
Its the epitome of non-fine homebuilding but....this gave us a usable kitchen for the next year.
Monday, July 13, 2009
The $250 kitchen renovation
As you can see, we've decided to do a few things to make the house more comfortable.. View ImageThings like the carpet runner, and the storage shelves were near the top of the list, but at the very top was making the kitchen slightly less ghetto-rific.<-- This is what our kitchen has looked like for the past 2 years.
View Image It's been totally functional, but I have to admit the inability to clean that room has been driving me a little batty. The throw rugs on the floor have been particularly frustrating because they're impossible to clean - the vacuum pulls them up (as do the cats), spills can't be wiped up, and there are areas here and there that I'd accidentally touch floor with my bare feet. It shouldn't be so disturbing to accidentally touch your kitchen floor with your bare feet!
The lack of cabinets was also high on the "we gotta do something about this" list. Especially with the walls open, everything on the shelves would just get so filthy so fast. Plus, I really like being able to CLOSE the cabinet doors and not see everything.
View ImageSo first things first, we had to clear everything out of the room. The stove and the fridge, which we didn't want to empty, were the two big pains.Everything else was just a matter of packing up and finding a spot in the house. It was like moving, but didn't involve a truck.
View ImageOur 12' x 25' sheet of vinyl was rolled up with the good side out and the short way, which would make it very hard to unroll in the room. So we spread it out and rolled it up the other way.Unfortunately, we don't actually have a space that big, so we made do with the patio and some extra folding. Even more unfortunately, we got the cheapest vinyl available, and it was so thin that in doing this we creased it and tore it in a few places :-/ If we'd realized how thin it was, we'd've anted up to a little better quality.
View ImageWe wound up sorta folding it in thirds and carrying it like a dead body into the kitchen.The sink is the only "permanent" thing in the room, and it turned out to be nailed to the floor with a dozen nails! We swapped out the blocks for something a little less crazy and slid the vinyl underneath.
View Image Then we rolled the rest of it out. Again, this would've been way easier if we'd gotten thicker stuff, but we were still doing ok at this point. We used the table to hold down sections while we adjusted other areas.
View ImageThen we sliced it with a utility knife (the one upside to how thin it was) up against the walls so we could finish rolling it out into the entry..
View Image.. and then screwed it into the subfloor around the perimeter.We decided against using glue, as would be correct for this installation. We scrubbed a LOT of mastic and glue off that floor when we moved in and I'd just as soon not be right back at square one when we're ready to redo the kitchen for real. Actually, correct would've been laying down a clean plywood subfloor first, but that's waaay more than we cared about for this temporary fix
View Image Again, the fridge was tough because it was so heavy but we ultimately just creased the vinyl underneath it and rolled it into place.Unfortunately, in doing this we tore a hole right in the center of the room (of course!)
View ImageView ImageGood thing we had our guest house renovator/blogger in the house! Ayse (who kindly offered to hold Natasha so I could work without a baby strapped on my back), made short work of patching the tear with the tape we bought for that very purpose. She had a couple more opportunities to use that skill in this room.
View ImageOnce the fridge had been moved onto the vinyl, the rest of the floor was pretty straightforward. Then it was time to move everything back in..
View Image.. and then put up the cabinets!Dan and I installed a whole kitchen at our old house, so we learned a few tricks for making it go more smoothly. The first trick is to get a laser level and a good stud finder, and then attach a ledger board to the studs to set the cabinet on
View ImageResting on the board, even this giant cabinet is able to be held up by the frailest of ladies.While I held it up, Dan screwed in through the studs, marked by the laser line
View ImageAnd then he sunk a few more screws into a few more studs for good measure
View ImageWith the big stuff in place, it was time for fun with plumbing.First on that list was plumbing the water line into the fridge for water and ice!! anyone need a brita??
View ImageAnd then onto the VERY exciting plumbing of the dishwasher!!Our super-silent model is a little noisier than it would be if it were mounted in an actual bank of cabinets, but it's pretty darn quiet.<-- Check out the little red light on the floor.. that's the only indication that it's running
View ImageAnd, most importantly, it cleans the dishes!One of the saddest parts about why I'm so excited about the dishwasher is how much easier it'll make doing laundry.. The washer also drains into that sink, and it's been such a drag to have to wash a full sink of dishes just to do a load of laundry! The odds of the baby still being asleep by the time the dishes are done are pretty slim, which means the laundry gets put off anyway until after the sink fills back up, and we go through the same game again.
View ImageThis part of the kitchen looks more or less the same as it did before
View ImageBut this part is very exciting!! Look at the cabinets! All our food is in there, hidden behind closed doors, safe from the dirt. And the cats have to work much harder to knock all the jars over. I found them on Craigslist, and they were cheap and perfect!I'm thinking of stapling some fabric up to close off the room from the chimney chase. It'll look much better and should keep the room cleaner.
View ImageAnd here's the new counter/sink area. We have a net loss in counter space, but there's much less sitting ON the counters which gives us more room to actually prepare food (ok, please imagine I actually cleaned up the counters before taking this picture..)The hanging cabinet is from the Habitat for Humanity ReStore, and was a fabulous deal for a well-made brand new wood cabinet.
View ImageAnd finally, the view into the room from the entry. I don't think we'll make it into any magazines with this kichen rehab, but it's SOOOO much nicer! Walking into the room actually feels like walking into a kitchen now.Each iteration of the room is a million times better than the one before (check out how it was at first, then how it's been), and I expect that trend to continue when we finally redo the kitchen for real.
Posted by irene at 7/13/2009 10:07:00 PM
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
well... al righty then
reminds me of rolling out a new linoleum "rug" for my Mom in the '50'sMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ya its super bad you can see the wrinkles in it in the pictures when the sunlight hits it just right.
But now we have a cleanable floor that a baby can crawl on.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Excellent! It's good to have standards, and better to get past them when appropriate. I can't tell you how many times I've had to go for more of the approach you took than the one we both would prefer. As you, every time I did I enjoyed the heck out of how much better it was than before. And I can promise you will enjoyed the heck out of replacing it when the time comes!
Happy b-day!
Well shooooot, I just stumbled on your other blog! What a cutie! (must take after dw) No WONDER the house work has slowed down.
I can't sleep when its hot and I surely would hate to go thru all of this and have my bedroom not be cool enough when its hot out.
I'm the same way. Even on summer nights, I tend to turn the AC down so that I can sleep with a blanket on the bed.
Thought maybe a mini-split system might be the answer for upstairs. Just cool the bedrooms and the system should heat them also? Not radiant though...
Is that something you could add as easily later as now? If so, maybe you could just go with a window AC unit to cool the one BR.... or just wait and see if it really gets that hot.
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
That is pretty cool though. Bet you can't wait until next winter!
jt8
Time is the coin of your life. It is the only coin you have, and only you can determine how it will be spent. Be careful lest you let other people spend it for you. -- Carl Sandburg
Daniel, I saw your post requesting a designer but shy'd away because something like that can be so subjective.
I will email you the designer that drew my plans and dealt with the city for me. She suited me fine and talked me into doing some things that I am glad we did. I pretty much planned what I wanted and she went along with it, but talked me into a master "suite". She is pretty easy going works with a structural guy, if you still need one. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Cool. I caught up on your thread when someone posted dw's blog link in that green thread. Found THIS thread by searching for 'rat ####'. :)
Not that I would want anything BAD to happen to you, but in the unhappy circumstance that something did, I might be on the phone to your DW. Sheeze, woman who doesn't mind working on houses and rides a motorcycle! Sounds like a keeper to me!
jt8
My advice to you is not to inquire why or whither, but just enjoy your ice cream while it's on your plate-- Thornton Wilder
Not that I would want anything BAD to happen to you, but in the unhappy circumstance that something did, I might be on the phone to your DW. Sheeze, woman who doesn't mind working on houses and rides a motorcycle! Sounds like a keeper to me!
Yep she's a keeper. She's also a welder-metal worker who makes cool metal art that spews fire! She didn't love grinding the nails down for the radiant but made a go of it. That 4.5" grinder overhead for hours got a little heavy for her.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I hadn't run into this thread in a while, but spotted a reply you'd made in another one, so clicked on your blog. Looks like things are coming along nicely!
He's going to go back in there and insulate and run heating ducts after the final! He agrees that its a silly law that only hurts honest homeowners...
So that answers THAT question :)
Did they get the slab poured today?
jt8
"Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals." -- Sydney Smith
Nope no slab pour today its tomorrow. They had to come in and do the rebar and break up the parts of the sidewalk they are replacing...
Guess I'm glad they are doing it on a SAT that way no city employed folk will wander by on official business...
Got several concrete places that specialize in decorative concrete interested in doing our sunken patio. I like that its their speciality and that they are all coming in quite a bit cheaper than the bid my foundation guy gave me...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Wow, that was a productive day!
jt8
"The unfortunate thing about this world is that good habits are so much easier to give up than bad ones." -- Somerset Maugham
Are you talking about heating the garage with forced air sor something else - like maybe radient in the concrete?
Yea we are talking about heating the entire bottom floor slab with radiant heat. Part of that is the workshop-garage area.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
With regard to heating the garage, I know there is an IRC code restriction about not having ducts in the garage, but radiant floor heating? Doesn't sound right to me - of course I have no ideas as to what the codes are in your area...
Can't do it can't turn garage space back into living space. In fact if I walled up just the bare minimum they require for a 'modern' garage it would take half the shop area anyways and I still couldn't put tubes in the floor...I am already planning to sheetrock the garage its gotta all be 1hr fire resistive-outlets-lights everything I workshop would need except heat and insulation....
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Easy answer, forget the radiant, put in some extra 220v outlets for "welders" and use space heaters.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
No the easy answer is that I'n going to get the okay to pour then go in and put the damn tubes where ever the hell I want. Unless the BI's got xray vision I think I can pull it off...
Unless of course I admit to my evil plan in a public forum....d'oh!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That is one way to deal with it. Of course if they do catch you .......
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
No the easy answer is that I'n going to get the okay to pour then go in and put the damn tubes where ever the hell I want. Unless the BI's got xray vision I think I can pull it off...
OK, I see we are on the same page. jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
I missed it... Are they trying to keep you from insulating the garage as well as not allowing heating/cooling?
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
yea no insulation allowed either...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Sure hope your neighborhood is friendlier than your building department.
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
i did have friend building a new house once.they decided to do a little "change" in the plumbing in the basement floor before it was poured,nobody will know or care. so house moves along,gets all dried in,rough in plumbing insp and the guy catches it. time to get out the saws and jackhammer because he wants to look at it.
so he ended up with a cut up floor,sore backs from carring concrete up the stairs,and probabaly 3-5k out of pocket.man that would suck.
sorry i'm from the land of forced air so i really don't get radiant heat in cailf,i thought thats why everybody lived there was for the weather? but why couldn't you just install a old antique radiator someday in your shop and hook up to the boiler.
personally ,unless your making a living in this space,i'd throw in a 220 plug during const. then someday hang me a small 10k overhead heater and turn it on when i'm down there,why heat something for days at a time that your not using?larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Yeah, I don't get the radiant floor heat unless it's always heated it would take a good while to warm up. On the other hand, how cold is it in Alameda? Can't take many BTUs to warm the garage up. I'd go for some kind of portable heat myself. But I can feel Mads pain, what a beaurocratic mess.
I'm not caught up on this thread yet, but on the no-heat garage... Is there any problem with just putting the tubing into the garage slab as long as it isn't tied into the boiler? Do the building weenies have to actually come out and inspect the tubing tied to the rebar prior to allowing you to pour the slab?
The thought that flittered through my head was, "OK, I'll give them a plan that doesn't show tubing in the garage slab, but if they don't have to inspect prior to the pour, what keeps me from adding the tubing anyway?" And then maybe a few years down the road when everything is done...maybe someone accidentally hooks that garage loop up to a boiler. Not that I'd be suggesting you do anything illegal, but if the tubing isn't attached to the boiler, then its not a heating system, its just plastic. And once its covered up with concrete...
jt8
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it." --Upton Sinclair
This may be too late for you, but I've heard that the best way to work with PG+E folks is to talk to the grunts directly. Cruise around until you find a truck, chat the guy up, and politely ask them to come fix your teensy little problem. I have no idea if it reliably works, but I've heard of it working before.
Good luck Daniel,
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
to late for us unfortunately as the retaining walls for the driveway are already poured.
I did actually manage to weasel my way thru to a regular guy who was honest enough with me to tell me that it would be 2 months to get my problem fixed. The reshaped driveway ain't so bad and I'll live.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That's the attitude! You'll live. It's just stuff, and money. Lots of money. Keep your chin up.
zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
I just wanted to give a shout out to NRTRob here from Northeast Radiant. I got him the floorplans for the slab and he jumped on it and had the inslab tubing plan to me in 2 days. This is a real plan done by experts with heat load calcs not just some rules-of-thumb. They put everything I needed together in a package and shipped it to me and I should have it this Wednesday.
For the designing-parts-shipping I'm out ~$1300 bucks. I'll have to do the tieing down myself but I'm told that part ain't rocket surgery. The two local experts wanted $9000 and $4000 just to tie the tubing to the rebar and the most expensive one was going to use bubble wrap for insulation!! What a joke...
Anywho if you're thinking about doing radiant I'd look Rob up for sure it'll save you bucketfulls of cash
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
MadMadScientist, Too late now, and not advocating anything illegal but sometimes job sites are busy places and not every little task gets supervision. But, I'd wager that if someone absolutely *had* to find the right soil and placing for that imported Hydrangea coming off the boat any day, and had sharpened up a nice long handled spade to make sure cutting through the soil was possible, and used as decisive a series of strokes as possible to be sure to do it right, and just happened to nick that gas line out beyond where it had to be moved, I think you'd be surprised just how fast that little problem would get resolved. It would shut down the job site for a bit but I'm guessing not as long as it took to finally resolve it the way it was.
Congratulations! Have fun!
go in tonight and just for the fun of it take a 20. bill and flush it down the toliet. see the money disappear and hear that sucking sound? get use to it ,you will be hearing a lot of that. and don't worry about that 20.thats the cheapest sucking your money sound you will have,from now on it's nothing but lot's of hundreds.
glad to hear your ready to roll,we want lots of pics. larrywhy pay someone to screw it up,i can do it for free....
Gee whiz, I think I told you that the city was pretty easy to work with. Oh well, here's hoping things are smoother from here on out. I'm still willing to help out when you get to drywall / finishing. Maybe 2009? ; ^ ) Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
No Way Jose What held this up was the engineer and the major design review process. I think from here on in all the permits I'm pulling are going to be over the counter!!!!!
I'll keep you in mind for the drywall work. You wanna do the crazy angles required for our cathedral ceiling and dormers in our top floor??
Do you do plaster work also? I've got a neigher on Sherman looking for some plastering work.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
That was good news getting the green light. Any word from the crete dude yet?
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
No word from the foundation guy yet. I'm going to give him a week to look over the plans and work up a quote before I start to pester him.
Spent most of the day Sunday tracking down the last (we hope) of the funky smells. The weather has turned here and we've had to close most of the windows that were keeping the place vented. Well there was some funk still coming from one room that I couldnt quite find... Turns out it was waaaaaay back inside the pocket door pocket around a corner. The rats liked to steal the plastic shoppping bags and use them as nests. These same rats then pee all over the bags and it makes an hellacious smell. I was up to my shoulder in the wall digging the stuff out! Thought for sure I'd find a dead rat in there but nope, just empty stinky nesting material...yippee
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
I could look at your neighbors, but I'm busy 'til end of the month. Email me if they want to wait. Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Okay will do maybe give me your contact info. This womans kinda flakey and will squeeze a nickel till it screams so maybe I don't want to inflict that on you...
Here's a funny story about Alameda that I thought was a rumor but turns out to be true. Alameda has a dedicated branch of busybody types who go to all the open houses and then report illegal work to the building dept. I thought it was b.s. cause really who would have that kind of time? Well friends of mine are in contract on a house and one of the busy bodies reported an illegal conversion of the garage into an 'art studio'. Now the seller has to convert it back to a real working garage (with permits) before escrow can close! All at no cost to the buyers!!!! They are so stoked cause they were going to convert it back into a shop/garage on their own dime.
Man I'm not letting anyone poke around my house! Well, I'm doing everything that matters with permits but still.....those folks need to take up knitting or something!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Yes, there are a lot of people here with their noses in other's business. I think home improvements without permits are too risky, especially when it comes to resale and disclosures etc.
I just put an arbor in my front yard and I guess i should have had a permit because it is over 5' ft. tall. Hope my neighbors are cool with it. Hope the city doesn't surf the web. ; ^ ) Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
Hey that looks nice! I don't know if arbors fall under the 'tall fence rule' or not. I'd think not.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Have you closed on your 'little project' yet?
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Have you closed on your 'little project' yet?
Yes, despite having a total duffus for a realtor and the HO's trying to reneg on their original agreement we did close. Tensions were a little high at the table and I did everything I could to elevate them!
Doug
Edited 10/9/2007 8:09 pm ET by DougU
Tensions were a little high at the table and I did everything I could to elevate them!
That's not a problem as long as you covered your a$$. From what you've mentioned about it in other threads, sounds like it is going to be a job. When you get a chance, start a Photo Gallery thread and set us up with a bunch of 'before' pics. Got the makings of an EPIC photo gallery thread! ;)
jt8
"Those who wish to sing always find a song." -- Swedish Proverb
Wow! From the model railroad photo it looks great. Just get rid of that silly garage looking thingy on the right and you'll be fine.
Runnerguy
Model railroad photo? I have no idea what you are talking about...
The garage to the right of the house is the neighbors and its falling down AND she knows that the city will make her tear it down (its right on the property line) if she tries to rebuild it. So lucky me she is trying to redo it behind the citys back. She wants me to tell her when the BI's will be out so she can schedule her illegal construction around them...
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Ok, I was making a joke with the "model railraod photo" because the photo was so small.Seriously, the house looks great. A lot of charactor in it.Runnerguy
Yea I figured it out after I sent the reply. Here's a bigger pic with some of our halloween decorations.
View Image
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Edited 10/30/2007 7:57 pm by madmadscientist
Edited 10/30/2007 7:58 pm by madmadscientist
Just settled the differences with the foundation contractor. He's doing the slab, foundation, rough framing and rough plumbing and we are responsible for the finish work...all for the low low price of...$118,000!! Start date is Dec 5th, finally!!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
a buck twenty just doesn't buy as much as it used to does it???? i remember the good ole days when that bought you 5 houses and 2 new corvettes with change!
so how did the additions to the contract go? i know that this has to be a big relief just to get it going and see some progress,have a good turkey day at the lower elavation,by xmas you'll be a few feet higher. larry
i meant to ask what is finish work on this part of the deal? you do final grade?
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Edited 11/20/2007 9:18 pm by alwaysoverbudget
Finish work in this case is installing the clap-boards in the new section of the bottom floor and then everything else to make the space habitable-electrical, finish plumbing, framing non-loadbearing walls, insulation, drywall, flooring, well everything but the rough work I guess...I'll probably sub out the new garage door install but besides that my wife and I are capable (and fairly chomping at the bit to get started on it I might add) of doing the rest.
No 120 bills does not buy what it used to....and he was the cheapest of the bunch by 5 grand.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
Was looking at some old copper wastelines today and saw an old 90degree 3inch elbow up there where you could still see the original price of $1.80 written on it.
Just thought to share that, no charge.
Wanna venture a guess as to how old the fitting is? I guess 1960.
Wonder what it worth today? my guess 25 bucks.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming
Yep, that was it on the nose. Built in '60.
Dang yer good.
I know where some house are that have entire copper supply and waste systems, they be down in the hood! Wonder if some of those crack heads know their sitting on a gold mine?
Doug
The crackheads here in bal'mowr know dang well about your goldmine too.If doing,say a whole house remodel with open walls downtown they'll take all the copper if you aren't careful.