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You haven’t found a “REAL” cabinet maker if they won’t reproduce something for money. Try someone that does furniture, or keep looking for a cabinet maker that actually knows how to build cabinets of various types. An experienced cabinet person should be enthusiastic about recreating something of vintage design.
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Any skilled 10 year plus carpenter should be able to build the typical built in cabs we see around here in central Pa. Try your your regular trim subs it realy shouldn,t be a problem .
ps. if they are paying $750. to $1000. in your area for built ins i,ll be right there.
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Adrian
If he's any where near Ontario the jobs mine. . . especially at Gabes prices!!!
*Thanks guys. This is what I don't understand. It seems to me that what you are saying is right on target. Any skilled carpenter ought to be able to make these dressers. I'm on the north shore of Long Island. Frankly, we're used to paying through the nose for good work. Skilled trades are hard to find around here, so if anyone wants to do the job, let me know. It's a great house, and the restoration work is fascinating. If you can, and want to, do this work, I would love to have you.SHG
*Dear SHG,I think what you are experiencing in your region is very similar to what is happening all over our country, as well.The technical schools and demand has eleminated the "all round master carpenter".Today we have, forming carpenters, framing carpenters, finishing carpenters, roofing installers, millshops, flooring installers etc.In the 20's your carpenters did all this work. They started with the foundation and ended with handing you the keys.With the exception of a very few independants who really love and respect their work, the all round master carpenter is nowhere to be found.With regards to the guys inquiring about the prices here for custom cabinetry. The last kitchen that I was involved with the design, when out the door at 62,000.00. The entire kitchen was made of peartree, granite countertops. The door's center panels were covered in bookmatched pear veneer to form artichokes.There wasn't a single piece of melamine or anything artificial.The entire kitchen was finish with a french polish.It takes 6 years of apprentiship and 4 years of production work before you're allowed to work on these kitchens.
*Hello, Gabe. "French Polish?"Or do you mean a high gloss polyester or polyurethane 'wet look' sprayed finish, buffed out? (Is this a Siematic kitchen, by the way?). I ask because I've worked in museum furniture conservation labs, and now in my own business restoration is a big part of it, from furniture on up. I do a good bit of french polishing, and I can't imagine a kitchen finished this way; it wouldn't stand up, and you can't have an antique restorer in every week to touch up the cabinets.
*I think you're right, Gabe. The age of specialization has its down side. Fascinating kitchen you describe. Around here, people want some extreme work done, with detail, rare woods, etc., that you wouldn't believe. And they are willing to pay for it. In the current market, with everybody building and working, many of the guys I spoke to said that they couldn't even start work for 6 months to a year or more.God bless a good economy. Someday, people will look back on these cabs and be amazed that people put melamine cabs in instead.SHG
*Morning Adrian,They have to apply nearly 20 coats and once completed, a special sealer is applied to protect the cabinetry because of it being exposed to special conditions of a kitchen.No it wasn't Siematic, it was produced in Europe for a client here in Ottawa.
*Gabe, I am prob. out of my league here, but I think your description of old time carpenters is prob. not so accurate. I suspect most of those gentlemen(and I include my grandfather and father in law) were competent or more than competent in quite a few areas but I doubt they were all that efficient.As a roofer,I am slightly above average in speed,and I have yet to meet a carpenter who could (or would even want to)keep up with me hour after hour ,day after day,month after month.And though I can and do replace the occasional rafter,I would not care to match framing squares with a REAL framer.I am sure the old days were a lot like the present in that there were plenty of men who specialized in narrow aspects of their trade(and excelled at it)The historical lists of guilds in london and elsewhere list plenty of specialists from joiners to cabinet makers to house wrights and I am sure there were plenty of sub specialties within those groupings as wellThen as now your chance to specialize would be greater in a larger market,but I bet the really high end stuff was usually done by specialists.The more things change the more they stay the same. Good Luck,Stephen
*SHG, You said in another post that you restore houses a lot. Are you handy with a hammer? Your cabinets really are a breeze to build. Especially considering that you have a pattern. Take one apart carefuly and see how it fits together. If your walls form the sides and back, all you need to build is a face frame. Attach it to the walls with cleats. Make a pattern for the top (cardboard). Attach top with cleats.If the cabs were built on site during the 20's I'll bet that the drawers aren't dovetailed. They're probably dado-ed. If you've got a table saw w/ dado blade, have at 'em. If you can't match the drawer faces, take them to a cabinet maker to duplicate for you.Can't believe someone would turn down a custom built-in in favor of specialization,Dan
*Hi Stephen,Actually, a study was done on this as part of continuing education and the workplace. The profile was that of a 45 year old tradesman versus the new trades person joining the trades.What was found was that the general knowledge of the 45 year old was far greater than that of the newer members to our fraternity.Trade schools had to shoulder the blame for this, as did the entire academic system.When the new trade schools were built, teachers who were intent on maintaining classes with higher averages, encouraged (mostly boys) students who were having dificulties in school to leave the 5 year programs and join the 2 year trade programs.By telling little Johnny, that he (a) wasn't as smart as the rest and (b) it didn't matter because he could earn big dollars in the trades the system destroyed many opportunities, for kids, for decades.These kids, came into the job market beleiving that they would make a million dollars and that it wasn't important to learn anything that they found challenging.Todays, aging workforce is leaving the baton to an uneducated workforce that has never assumed responsibility for anything. Most foremen on commercial sites are 45+. If you look at the electrical trade, they were forced to specialise. You can have 250 electricians working and only 10% can actually read blueprints well enough to direct others. The main body of electricians on commercial sites can only carry out instructed chores. The average electrician knows nothing about computerized controls as a result of this.The age of good enough has come back to haunt us and now we will have to pay for gold collared workers.Didn't mean to get serious. FOr those of you who may think I was being too critical, you need only look around.
*DanWhile I have a working knowledge of trades, I don't actually do much work myself, lacking both time and, primarily, a great deal of skill. My theory is to let everyone do what he does best. I probably could do most of the work myself, but the scope of work is generally pretty big and really requires someone who can focus on it full time.Also, I wouldn't want to take food out of anyone else's mouth. So long as carpenters don't practice law, I promise not swing a hammer any more than necessary. And personally, I actually like doing plumbing and electric more than carpentry (frankly, I think its easier).And I think Gabe has a really important point about young men coming into trades not having a breadth of knowledge that allows them to expand beyond what they have done before. I see it a lot, and its painful but generally true.SHG
*SteveWhile I am sure that there are plenty of examples to prove your theory on the old timers, my own father's background tells me that for those that wanted it, more was easily available back then. My old man apprenticed in Toronto in the late 1920's and eventually became a master carpenter, having learned carpentry, cabinetmaking,& drafting. These disciplines were completly seperated by the time I wanted to persue them, but would have been easier if they had been integrated. . . I could have done night school, but chose to take i a year offto learn cabinetmaking!You're right of course that there will always be specialists
*SHG,Also, I wouldn't want to take food out of anyone else's mouth. So long as carpenters don't practice law, I promise not swing a hammer any more than necessary.Funny thing, I feel that way about hanging sheetrock.Thank God for Sheetrockers! Seriously though, mediocrity is rampant in the building industry. It's stunning sometimes. I started as a laborer for a framing crew building 3-4,000 sqft custom houses. Moved up through lead framer. Worked for a foundation contractor for a year to find out how that worked. Worked for a remodeling contractor for a couple of years. All three of those initial forays into the building industry were with quality minded contractors. At this point (about 5 years into the business) I was still under the halucination that contractors were all like the Fine Homebuilding readers (not counting Blue). Then I started moving around the country and working here and there on whatever framing job was available. Boy what a surprise! I actually felt sick leaving some jobs at the end of the day knowing that some nice couple was going to sink their life's savings into one of those junky (but large) houses. A couple of times I was glad that I arrived in the dark and left in the dark so that nobody would see me.Many workers don't think of building as a process. They just learn how to nail walls together and think they're framers. They have trouble conceiving of doing things differently because the situation is different. Working for myself now I get a wide spectrum of projects to do. Just yesterday I got the OK for a rough framing project, a small but complex two story deck and a nifty built-in bookcase/desk unit for a Victorian mini-mansion. I love the challenge that a variety of work and materials presents. One of the greatest things about forums such as this is that we can bounce methods and material information back and forth under the watchful eye of many others who are more than ready to point out your shortcomings. Suddenly "why" counts as much as "how". Things we thought we knew we now need to verbalize more articulately and it leads us to re-think old methods and materials. Or simply to just re-learn why we do things the way we do.As far as your cabinet project goes, there's got to be a custom cabinet builder that'll do it for you. Or a trim carpenter. Call all the contractors you've ever hired (sans one) and ask them for names. If you still come up empty, email me. Heck I've got a friend in NY that I haven't seen in WAY too long...Dan
*SHG,How are you finding these cabinet makers that don't want to do this? I wonder if the ones that would welcome the change and challenge are busy enough that they not only do not advertise, but operate in stealth mode. You would have to do a lot of asking around to find them.Or maybe not...just a thought.Rich Beckman
*Gabe,
Joseph FuscoView Image
*Hi Joe,I would have had you beat on this one except the client was a BreX investor. He went from a 80,000 investment to 15,000,000 to 0 inside of 1 1/2 years. He cancelled the order, wonder why........
*Gabe, Thank you. I think you made my point for me better than I could have.In the study you cited ,comparing the greater body of general knowledge in a 45 year old tradesman with the much narrower range of knowledge displayed by a young man entering the trades,I can only say DUH! Of course the 45 year old has more general knowledge.He has been working at his trade for 25 more years than his younger counterpart.But fast forward 25 years and I think you will find that the young man has suddenly picked up a lot of general knowledge.I suspect that there are a great deal of guys out there with a wide range of carpentry skills ,fully capable of building very good stair cases,for example.but a guy who specializes in stairbuilding will build it better and faster. The stair builder may be fully capable of hanging doors, but I doubt he can keep up with a man who specializes in door hanging. The list goes on and onI think most people eventually gravitate toward a segment of there trade that they enjoy and where they find their own particular temperment allows them to earn the most money.Even though we all like to think of the good old days,when every worker was a "master craftsman" I expect the past was very similar to today.I doubt the men who put up all that crown molding and custom built wainscoating and paneling spent much time nailing up lath!I even bet the fine lumber we all miss from the good old days had its share of crappy stuff to.I have found some scarry looking stuff in the walls and attics of old houses.Good Luck,Stephen
*Appreciate your help, Dan. I have been calling, and found one guy who is very interested in restoration building and wants to do the work. He's not to keen on the rest of the job, because its more work than he's geared up for, but we'll see how his bid comes in, or if we can split up the work. I've also learned from the many posts here that this whole concept is hardly as bizarre as I was lead to believe by the people I was talking to.The job itself is part of a larger project, involving the restoration of a wing of a house. The rest of the work is fairly routine, if you're sensitive to old house restoration. One of the best things that I have learned from this thread is the names of people, resourced, for restoration that used to be impossible to find. You have no idea how hard it used to be to find the right materials for a restoration job.Again, appreciate all the support and help. SHG
*Now, SHG, them Ontarians are good fellas, but if you are planning to fly a guy in first class, put them up in style plus wine and dine, all the while paying them top dollar, well, you're gonna want a Nova Scotian on the job. Should be a Cape Bretoner, too. Yeah uh huh. (sorry, Patrick old buddy).(BTW, Patrick, it was Algonquin College I meant, says Adrian crossthreading furiously)
*Nova Scotian, eh? Guess we'll need two of those first class seats, one for you and the other for the salmon you'll be bringing. And who said anything about wine?But the Ontarians say you guys don't know which end of a stud goes where. Is that true?SHG
*Afternoon Steve,Actually you missed my point.The 45 year old WAS exposed to a wider range of construction skills than anyone starting today.Prior to the 60's, trade schools were unique. We had one in Ottawa, and another in Toronto. To enter you had to have the marks (and a connection didn't hurt)The tech schools produced the cream of the cream in the industry.The big change took place when the academics, cheapened the requirements for the trades. Being a tradesman no longer meant that you had to be good, only not good enough to do the 4 or 5 year programs.This in not to say this is the rule. There are trades people today that could challenge anyone at par, BUT the average is way down and the attitude is rock bottom. The question is "How much does the job pay?" has become the battle cry of the carpenter, instead of "What's it worth?"
*SHGDon't confuse the poor bluenoser, talk of studs will get him lookin for xxx web sites to french polish. If he's a typical east coaster he'll supply his own i whineto go with the Red Herring he's gonna fob off on ya.(Adrian. . . cross threading is the norm here now. . .Hi NOrm. . . figured you meant the college).70F in eastern Ontario, whooeeee!!!-Patrick
*All rightee. I'm thinkin no lobsters for ANYBODY, if you're gonna be like that. as to the East/West thing, speaking as a former West Quebecker, former Ontarian, and present Cape bretoner (honorary), trade skills are about even, when you are comparing the serious guys to the serious guys, but us capers are better looking than the Upper Canadians, and that is important. SHG; salmon is doable, as are lobsters, crab, and North Americas only single malt whisky, if you be so inclined. Have your people call my people.
*Gabe,I think I was to busy trying to make my own narrow statement to see your broader issue.In Ohio,and I suspect most of this country,Trade school is not really much of an option for a young man interested in entering our trades.Most everything is learned the long,hard way on the job,and through your own study.Most apprenticeships are through the unions and a lot of this is geared to commercial work,not residential.The real problem is that our trades are not seen as desireable occupations for bright young men.Most parents raise there children to avoid any work that would require someone to actually bend over and pick something up.(Forget about getting your hands dirty ,or scuffing their new air jordans)In my area,politicians and professional educators add to the problem.From a childs very first day in Kindergarden his teachers will hammer in to him that the only way he will be successfull is to stay in school as long as possible.The schools are set up as factories to handle large amounts of raw goods(children)and actual learning is secondary to crowd controll and pacification of their unruly tendencies(My wife is a parochial school teacher and we have had this discussion many times)I don't feel answer to our problem(how to attract talented,competent candidates to the trades)will come from government or schools.They are already committed to 16-17 years of babysitting in order to keep young people out of the workforce as long as possible.The solution will have to come from people like like those on this forum.We will have to take more responsibility as role models,not only to our own children but as examples to a lot of kids. If we can show bright young people that you can make a very good living in the trades by combining some very basic business skills with a competent command of your craft,we will have a much better chance of attracting talented young people.A good example of this is taking place in my area in the machine trades.A lot of machine shop and tool and die makers were unable to hire enough skilled workers.Young people were not interested in learning these trades.The business owners started to get the message out:the owners themselves were financially successfull,they started out as entry level craftsmen,Skilled workers in many of these shops earn more than accountants or dentists.Many of the owners banded together and started a school where classroom training is given after hours.You can work in the shop during the day and attend class at night to improve your skills(and earning potential) This has been going on for years and has helped the situation somewhat but the owners still have a big labor shortage because the public schools in this area are unable to encourage bright young men to consider these careers.How many of us are planning to send our sons to college instead of teaching him the family trade?Anyhow,I got to run but I will enjoy seeing how this works out when I get back.Good Luck,Stephen
*Stephen,The message that I brought to the Education Strategy Discussion panel was simply this:You as educators in the elementary school system have failed to prepare kids to enter high school.You as educators in the high school system have failed to prepare teenagers for college and university.You as educators in the college and university system have failed to prepare young men and women for their future.The entire system has failed by the proliferation of a defective product.We as members of the construction industry, will no longer accept your failures. We will take only the best you have to offer at the high school graduation level and then put them through our apprenticeship programs.Note: The Province of Ontario has finally recognized the fact that teachers were gradually lowering the benchmark of students in order to achieve higher grade levels in their respected classes. They have now re-introduced tough new Provincial wide standards that will have a dramatic effect in the next generation of kids.
*It appears that you are both arguing about the same problem, the allocation of scarce resources (competent skilled craftsmen), and how that problem can be resolved. This is a somewhat different problem than the scope of knowledge of today's younger entries into the trades, but bears upon the question of why new people today lack the skills of older craftsmen.The question I would add is whether the problem is not so much a matter of having smarter workers in the past, but whether the culture no longer fosters pride in our work, with work being a means to get paid and little more. Thus, even if the best and brightest chose to become craftsmen, would they have a dedication to quality or would they try to get away with the least amount of effort possible. If the latter, then it doesn't matter how well trained they are because the attitude of cutting corners and doing as little as possible will prevail.SHG
*Dear SHG,There is no argument between us on the big picture, only a different perspective due to regional conditions.Steve, I think is in an area that has a shortage of trade schools whereas I'm in an area that has too many.If it were in my power, I would send him half of what we have and in the end we would both win.I don't believe anyone at any given period in history was any smarter or less capable. I do believe that there has never been a generation with the information available to it like the present one. And unfortunately, there has never been a generation that has disregarded opportunity like the present one.You practice law and engage in remodeling as a hobby. I work in construction management and engage in law as a hobby.10 years ago, both of us would never have had the opportunity to discover the other's interest. So we appreciate the media that gives us that opportunity. Today's kids, take it for granted.
*ShgYour observation is sad but true, the pursuit of excellence for it's own sake seems to have been lost in todays fast paced, disposable culture. Most younger people that I know have a very lazy attitude towards just about everything. . . and I don't mean a 'non puritan work ethic', just that nothing seems worth the trouble to do well, or learn about. . . they seek a jolt a second, or move on. Some say it started with Sesame Street, and has moved on through speedball computers. . .whatever it's genesis, it's definetly a society wide phenomenon!-Patrick
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I'm afraid the trades have got to shoulder some of the responsibility for this failure. In times past a student that didn't do well in school could leave at a fairly young age even before entering high school and still have the option of entering a trade and with hard work expect to advance in his field and to earn a decent living. Now it is very unusual for this to happen. Those that do not do well in school are forced to stay and the teachers must spend a disproportionate amount of time keeping them up with the rest of the class. When was the last time you hired an emloyee without a high school education?
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Morning Jim,
As a personal observation, part of my duties is to review resumes and job applications for clients. A young person staring off, without any work history is at a great disadvantage if he or she doesn't have a High School Diploma. To me and many others, the diploma is the only sign of accomplishment the young person has, to judge them on. Generally, I don't care what discipline the diploma is for, as long as I see a consistancy in the students application to their school work. Good attendance, marks, attitude, extra curriculum activities, (it's important to know that they have a well rounded lifestyle) and ability to get along with others. I look for some indications of desire to improve and stromg willingness to learn.
I think that we all agree, no one leaves school ready to build a house, but they should leave school with the desire to learn how to build the best house in the world.
*I think it is naive to generalize about the quality of trades training along generational lines, and the truth is you have to be involved with teaching in a trade school to know what they are up against. The percentage of people who are highly motivated to learn how to do good quality work, and then work to those standards is small: always has been, always will be. I went to trade school (after university) and I did my 10,000 hours to be able to call myself a journeyman, a lot of it under European and European trained cabinetmakers. I wasn't a star apprentice, but I worked at it, and I think now I am pretty competent. I recently taught in a two year community college program, trying to pass this stuff on to people ranging from nineteen year olds to guys in their forties and fifties with trades already under their belt, and you just can't write off the younger people. Some of them (again, a small percentage) are motivated to learn on their own, push their teachers, and with the right on the job training, are capable of whatever is asked of them. So give them a chance.As far as the trade schools go, the system worked well for me, and all my teachers had gone through something similar. Show me something that works better. But don't expect fully competent craftsmen out of it; that is where apprenticeship works well. And remember that the teachers, from what I have seen, are under a lot of pressure from an educational system that undervalues trade training and is constantly poaching resources from that area. they also have to deal with incoming students that, regardless of potential, have often been badly educated in math and communications skills, let alone self-directed learning. there are definitely problems in trade training, and we have all seen a decline in quality standards in our industry, but don't put it all on the shoulders of newcomers to the industry. the 'market', and the educational system as a whole have to take some of the blame.
*Engage in remodelling as a hobby? Hey, wait a minute. When I purchase a worn down, poorly renovated 10G sq.ft. manor house on ten acres, believes me that its no hobby. It is, however, a labor of love to restore it.And places like this thread, where there can be a pooling of knowledge and resources, clearly produces better results than were available before it. I have learned so much from this and similar sites. But mostly its the resources. The ability to find hardware, techniques and specifically styles items needed to restore has made my work one hundred fold more effective. I now regret choices made years ago when I put things in because I just couldn't find the right items. Each house is different and you need to recreate very specific items each time.For example, I have been looking for lead or brass window numbers for the past 2 years. I still haven't been able to find them, but have talked with hardware people across the country in the process. For me, the true joy of the work is being that detailed and specific. And yes, my contractors have at times hated my attention to detail, and most of the buyers of my homes never notice. But I do. And when I am done with the job, I know I've done everything I could to truly restore the house.SHG
*Good morning gang, and happy Easter Jack. Have something to add to topic of dresser type kitchen cabinets.I am currently building the first of a kitchenfull of these and Gabe's pricing seems about right to me. The other thing is an English architecht named Johnny Grey is apparently spearheading the return to this style. He calls it "the unfitted kitchen". It reminds me of the idea that at one time kitchen furniture was built such thst it could be moved when the family moved to a new home.He has written a few books and Amazon.com carries at least two of them. Nice pictures and intersting ideas, even if the text is a bit "I did..." oriented.On the subject of declining quality of craftsmanship, you sound like the old timers on the job when I was a teenager. There will always be a section of any given population that is more conciencious about their craft (or family, or sense of community...whatever) it's all relative to the others in the population. I am glad we are all different.Absolutely love this forum and I'm gratefull to find some kindred spirits.
*Stephen,I have always felt like you have stated in regard to school systems....Though I am amazed at what they are doing in my local elementary system these days. They teach kids in huge group rooms called clusters and it really is amazingly different than how I was taught. I picked up my nephews a few times at school and I was a surprised at the amount of love and attention these kids receive all the way to the front door as they're exiting. It appears to me that unconditional love and acceptance for who these individuals are from day one along with individually paced studying is bearing great fruit in our district.Near the stream,J
*Gabe,I'm having trouble posting this post I'm giggling so hard....I'm gonna laugh and smile all day long!!!!...Thanks for this!1!.."ability to get along with others"...Your dear friend whom you get along with so well,Near the stream, peeing my pants!JJoe...Gabe needs your help with me quick!!
*Jack what is your contribution to this post other than antagonizing?When I work, I don't allow personalities to interfere with decision making. Don't confuse, not allowing your little friends to kick sand in my face, with not getting along with others, it's called standing up for what I know to be true.What I don't want is some newcomer entering the workforce with an attitude, making him or her dangerous to the jobsite. You may not have a problem with this, but my responsibilities are a little different than yours. I have several hundred people that I have to be concerned about and safety is paramount with me.
*Gabe,Your quote' "ability to get along with others"...Now read your posts when you are mad at me or Fred...Do you really think that all that anger shows off your "ability to get along with others"...or does it show your "I'm right and you are an antaganist (anger and rightuousness)"???? Does it sound like an adult who was trying to get along and cool things down rather than heat them up would say things like "little friends???"...Is name calling thought of as "getting along" where you are from?Lets face it...You get pissed and sometimes your posts sound like you're really pissed!@@@!!...I'm not here to jerk your easily jerked chain...I just laughed so hard when you hold "ability to get along with others" to be a very important trait in others but don't recognise how thin your own skin is and how contradictory you seem to be of this noble trait as you kick, bite and scratch about here mostly with Fred but once in awhile with the rest of us "poke em and see what he does" types...All in fun...To the end of Easter...Lets nail up another,J
*Gabe: You guys are taking yourselves far too seriously; take a step back and look to see where you have been and then look to see where you are headed (I suspect you will see a cardiac specialist in your near future).Like I said to your friend Fred, Lighten up!
*Good Morning SHGLaw,to me a hobby is a pastime at which I don't make money, only do it for the love of it.Are we back on the same wavelenght?
*Not exactly, Gabe. While it is a matter of passion to get it right, it definitely involves money. In fact, its proven to be enormously profitable.There is a niche market for authentic detailed restoration very high end restoration. These are houses which ultimately sell for very big numbers, with ROI's of 40-50%. But, it takes a very substantial investment to purchase and perform the restoration.And when I kiss my baby good-bye, there is not only the comfort of a job well done but the warm and fuzzy feeling of profitable venture.SHG
*Young BobI've been hearing and seeing the type of dressers you're talking about a lot lately as well, but the ones I wrote about are not the same thing.Mine are completely built in, with the back wall of the cab's being the wall of the room. They were simply called "dressers" in the 1920's plans, but were not movable.But, I very much like the new movable dresser idea, though not in this house.SHG
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*In the past, we always used custom cabinetry in kitchens, generally some old style but modern fabrication. Now, we're trying something different and have run into a brick wall.The original cab's were built in "dressers" per the original spec's in a '20s manor house. We want to rebuild additional to fill in where cabs were removed over the years, but exactly like the originals. No cabinet maker that I have talked to so far will do it. They tell you they will, but when push comes to shove, they really want to put in the usual boxes with all the bells and whistles. Bottom line is that its too simple, and they just can't figure out how to do something simple and basic, the way it was done 75 years ago.Anyone run across this, and have a solution?SHG
*Burn it!Blue
*You haven't found a "REAL" cabinet maker if they won't reproduce something for money. Try someone that does furniture, or keep looking for a cabinet maker that actually knows how to build cabinets of various types. An experienced cabinet person should be enthusiastic about recreating something of vintage design.
*SHGLaw,Any good furniture maker can do the job. Any good cabinet maker can also do the job. It's just that it's hard to pick out the good ones from the good for nothing ones.However, it's normally easier to find a good furniture maker. The good ones will have a display of their work and will be proud to show you.Typically, the rate per linear feet of (top + bottom units)cabinetry is normally $750.00 per foot on full kitchens (counters extra). The construction of single units will be probably more than $1,000.00 per foot.Part of the high cost of this work is site visits, drawing sketches, and making working drawings for the production floor.In the end you will have true custom cabinetry made of solid woods and finished exactly like the originals.
*GabeThe problem isn't the cost of the cabs. In fact, there is substantially less involved in making a dresser than in a decent cabinet. These were usually fabricated on site by the working carpenters in the 20s, not even by a cabinet maker.The nature of the old dresser type kitchen cabs is that they are completely built in, with the plaster wall of the house being the back wall of the cabinet. The units are all one piece, there are no sides between them, no boxes.I have tried a number of cabinet makers in my area, and putting aside the fact that they all want to build in their workshop and not on site, the whole idea appears to foreign to them that they look at me like I have three eyes. It's not that they can't necessarily make it, but they don't want to do the job. Dressers were standard in kitchens in the '20s, but today they are another anachronism. Has anyone else tried to have these made? I'm beginning to think that this is just such an oddball request that there's nobody left alive interested in doing it.
*Well, I'm a cabinetmaker/furnituremaker, and I'd do it. Sounds fun.There has to be somebody; kitchen guys don't want to do anything outside of kitchen cabs, cause that is what they are set up for and often (not always, mind you) thats all their guys know how to do. I get most of my interesting projects from clients the two big local kitchen and millwork shops turn away because they don't want to deal with anything complicated. Where are you located?