I installed a kitchen last summer cabs to ceiling with crown. Now that it’s cold there is a 3/8″ gap between crown and sheetrock.
Any suggestions for permenant corrections?
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Are you sure the cause is truss uplift? Are you cabs securely fastened to the wall?
Could you affix the crown to the ceiling and not the cabinets, creating a slip joint?
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Interior wall or exterior wall? If the cabs are on an exterior wall then uplift is unlikely to be the cause. But 3/8" uplift at interior walls isn't that unusual.
As suggested, the simplest fix is to affix crown to the ceiling (after finishing the cabs).
happy?
Cabs are secure. All interior walls and the majority of crown is perpendicular to the trusses.
These are full overlay cabinets so attaching crown to ceiling will only relocate my problem. I'm looking to solve it.
PS... I am a liscensed contractor and this is not my house. I have installed many kitchens but this is the first in an old rancher with trusses and crown to the ceiling.
Edited 12/15/2005 6:39 pm ET by sledgehammer
Sledge, the drywall wasn't installed according to truss manufacturers recomendations to reduce the effect of trusslift. There really isn't a way to stop it, so the best you can do is float the drywall. Your's isn't floating, it'd fixed tightly to the trusses.
Go up in the attic, bring a sawzall and release the drywall, then fasten it to the cabinets.
blue
Mr. Devil.
Imagine a 12' x 14' room.
One 14' side is exterior wall... the opposite is interior partition..
Now install 24" deep refridge/ pantry/ oven cabinets with crown on the interior 14' wall and tell me how far the truss manufacturer reccommends to "float" the ceiling?
Personally I and the building inspector likes more then 10 screws attaching a 4 x 12 piece of ceiling sheetrock... but that's just me and the inspector.... go figure.
So do you think it's truss uplift or not?If it is, either you have to fix the uplift, release the GWB from the trusses, or live with it.Floating out the gap with mud will not work, since what goes up will come down.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
You and the building inspector should do a bit more reading on screw placement on ceilings when trusses are involved. It's a fairly simple system, one that will allow the drywall to float at the corners. You don't need any fasteners near the interior wall edges because the drywall sits on the wallboard that you installed on the walls. It would be impossible for it to fall unless you were very horrible at fitting it to the edge. If you didn't install glue or fasteners for the last 2', it would rest comfortably on the wallboard that is installed on the walls. When you set your cabinets and trim and caulked it, it would hold tight to the trim. Since you knew you were going to put 12" of cabinet, you should have left the last 3' loose.
Of course, you can ignore me and the truss companies and screw the #### out of everything but then you'll have your 3/8" gap, wont you?
blue
Have you realized that the problem is 18" away from the walls, at the front of the cabinets?So the drywall detail you keep talking about would make no difference in this case.
A beautiful woman lacking discretion and modesty is like a fine gold ring in a pig’s snout. [Proverbs 11:22]
That's right, Boss!!!
I think Mr. Sledge needs to crawl up in the attic and see if he can get a shim under the trusses. If so, we know that either that's the problem or a major contributing factor.If not, then he has something totally different to think about.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
The fact that there's a gap doesn't necessarilly mean the trusses are to blame. It still could be that the floor joists and/or beam are shrinking during the winter months.
Do not walk behind me, for I may not lead. Do not walk ahead of me, for I may not follow. Do not walk beside me, either. Just leave me the heck alone.
You're correct, but the fix either way would likely be the same.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Boss, lets assume that the floor joists shrunk. They all start out the winter season at 11.25 inches and suddenly shrink to 11". Wouldn't everything be 1/4" lower including the trusses?
I've seen the floor drop away from internal nonbearing walls when several pads nd the steel beam sunk due to frost/thaw situations. The gap didn't occur at the ceiling, it occurred between the plates and the floor. I could stick my fingers in the gap but the wall actually stayed tight to the ceiling.
Your joist/beam shrinkage idea is a possibility, but since we all know that truss uplift wreaks havoc on many a home, and is very common, I would guess that the liklihood is small, but yes, it's a possibility.
blue
"lets assume that the floor joists shrunk. They all start out the winter season at 11.25 inches and suddenly shrink to 11". Wouldn't everything be 1/4" lower including the trusses?"
No. The center beam of a house and the joists could shrink, because they're warm and dry. But the band board might NOT, as they may be cooler since they're basically outside the insulation envelope.
So the exterior walls might stay more or less where they are, while the interior walls dropped.
A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's because she changes it more often.
"The fact that there's a gap doesn't necessarilly mean the trusses are to blame."
I would agree with Boss because I've had the same problem in a house that doesn't have trusses. In my case, I redid a kithen in a bungalow built in the 1920s. When the ugly crack suddenly appeared, I surmised that the top plates swelled in response to moisture and lifted the ceiling, while the cabinets stayed put, being screwed to the studs. As most of you know, wood shrinks and swells far more across the grain than it does along the grain. Bruce Hoadley, in "Understanding Wood," estimates that the height of a new two-story platform-framed structure might change by 7/8-in. Of this, he estimates that only 1/16-in. would be due to changes in the stud lengths. (This is on p. 79, if you have a copy of his book.)
On my job, of course, this was an unproven theory. I'll never be sure why the offending gap appeared and, at the time, I didn't have any desire to start tearing the brand new kitchen apart. I just wanted to eliminate the crack. In that kitchen, the crown was painted and my solution was to get the most flexible caulk I could find. I noticed a hotline number on a tube of Dap caulk, called it and explained my problem. The guy at Dap suggested I use Dyna-Flex 230 and I did. It worked! It's paintable, adheres well, is very flexible and it stretches far more than any other caulk I've ever used. I don't know if it will work in your situation but it was a godsend in mine.
Yes, thats why I told him that he should float the drywall for about 3' from the wall. The trusses have probably uplifted 3/4". Thats how much mine used to. If the drywall stayed down at the wall, it probably would still be down at the 12 and 18" mark.
blue
Oven cabinets, pantries and refridge cabs protude 24" from the wall. Now add an additional 3" for crown extension and how far do you propose to float a 48" wide sheet of drywall?
Since your rule is leaving 36" for 12" of cabinets and I have 24"... tell me again... how many screws you think I'll get per sheet?
I'm looking for help from someone who understands the problem. Thanks anyway Mr.Devil..... Next!
Edited 12/16/2005 8:57 pm ET by sledgehammer
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You are the one that keeps refusing to understand the point.
You are so fixated on fastening the drywall tight to the trusses, that you fail to realize that your 24" cabinet is plenty strong to support and hold up the drywall. In your case, you could easily float a very large section of drywall knowing that the cabinet will be the ultimate support.
I really don't care if you refuse to believe the fix. You're the one that has the gap. You have to pick your poison. Either release the drywall, or live with the gap. The only other solution was to float the trim, which is a very logical solution, but you already indicated that that wasn't a viable solution. Your going to have to prioritize your needs and settle on something.
Or, you can enjoy that 3/8" gap. I'm sure they make caulk flexible enough to strecth with the seasons. I'm sure that look will be very satisfying to some, but I'd prefer to float the drywall.
blue
Hmmm..."Mr. Devil"...? I kinda like it better than "Blue". Seems so polite and formal, yet still has an edge.
Thats the reason I picked the name. It has that sweet ring to it but behind the scenes you know there's trouble brewing.
That's me.
blue
The drywall may well be installed per spec. But if the cabs are 18" deep and the DW installer held the nails 2' away from the walls, you're still going to see most of the uplift at the front of the cabs.By "full overlay" I assume that means that the "cove" is just a dummy strip the same thickness as the doors, and flush with them. If you attach it to the ceiling you'll then have a 3/8" gap above the doors (or else, if tighter, have the doors jamb when the ceiling drops back).If you really, really had to fix this in the worst possible way you could knock the ceiling loose from the trusses and hang it from new joists, with their ends resting on the partition wall.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
This thread on Truss uplift is a bit out of date, but there's a lot of good info in it still. (All the links are dead)
I believe truss uplift is typically tied to lack of ventilation. But your homeowner may not be up for solving that.
This attic is well ventilated. I could read a newspaper in there on a cloudy day there is so much ventilation.
But it is under insulated. Do you think that may be the cause?
"But it is under insulated. Do you think that may be the cause?"
If it is truss uplift, underinsulated trusses is not the cause. In fact, a greater amount of insulation will make the problem worse.
You may not like the solution but if you want to fix it, you will have to float the sheetrock. As Blue suggests, fastening it to the cabinets may be the only way to solve this problem.
For some reason uplift does not happen uniformly in similar houses that we have built. It can be pretty tough to fix.
"This attic is well ventilated. I could read a newspaper in there on a cloudy day there is so much ventilation."
That statement makes me wonder - What kind of ventilation is there? Soffit and ridge vents seem to me to be the best combo. If you're getting a lot of light, I'm wondering if you mean there are gable vents? If so, that does NOT constitute good ventilation, IMHO.
"But it is under insulated. Do you think that may be the cause?"
It's possible. There may be moisture making it's way from the house up into the attic. And the moisture condenses on the top chords of the trusses, causing truss uplift.
Sealing up penetrations in the ceiling could help this a great deal.
There is one more possibly option to consider - The floor joists and beams may be drying out and shrinking in the winter. This could particularly be a problem if the house is leaky, and the humidity is very low.
It could also be a combination of the above 2 problems.
Yesterday I was arrested for scalping low numbers at the deli. I sold a #3 for 20 bucks.
Actually, insulation hurts you. You get the uplift because the bottom chord is at a different temperature and humidity from the rest of the truss, due to the insulation on it and it's proximity to the heated space.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?