*
et al,
A few experiments that you folks can do at home while you’re trying to figure out who the king of bullshit is at BT. Find yourself a few mayonnaise jars. . .
1).
This will represent what you will do if this is your attic and you are following the advice of one Fred Lugano, Weatheriztion expert.
Fill one halfway with your favorite cellulose product. Than fill with water till the cellulose absorbs as much as it can, than add about 1 inch more of water. This will represent the moisture that is being pumped into your attic from the living space.
Now take some petroleum jelly and wipe some on the rim of the jar and seal it with it’s lid. This will represent the un-vented attic. Mark a line on the jar to show it’s level. Leave it alone and come back in three years and check and mark the level once again. The difference in these two marks will be the amount of moisture that has diffused from your attic.
2).
Do the same as above and this time leave off the lid (vented attic). Come back in three days and compare the levels.
I hope I’ve made this as simple as possible.
Joseph Fusco
© 1999
“The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it.”
Aristotle
Replies
*
I thought is was LUGANO.
First let me confess my total ignorance of this subject ( other than what has been debated on this board over the last few years) as here down under we do not have the weather extremes that you have. Given that, are you saying Joe, that a sealed jar is as airtight as an unvented attic?? Are you saying that an unvented roof space has absolutely no place for moisture to disperse??
In ignorance
mark
*Mark,
Joseph FuscoView Image© 1999"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*I won't claim any real insight here either. How about this experiment:Put the insulaiton in two jars, seal one and don't seal the other.Which one will pick up moisture in a humid climate faster? If we're assuming that an unvented attic is absolutely air tight (not likely) then the absolutely airtight jar with no moisture in it should be as good a model as the absolutely air tight jar with water poured into it.
* Ryan,
Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
* Ryan,
Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
*Attic venting can save your life!We proved this a few years back with the following experiment. In building a tract, we took four houses that were otherwise identical. In the first we installed soffit venting. In the second gable end vents. In the third ridge vents. And the fourth was left entirely unvented. In each attic we installed a hose and a water meter, so that we could accurately measure the moisture we put into each attic. The house with the soffit vents performed best, taking on only about 4000 liters before the vents allowed the water to run out. The house with the gable end vents took on almost ten times as much, 36000 liters before the vents became effective. Ridge venting was very ineffective taking almost 50000 liters. The house without any venting continued to take water until the weather turned bad. We left it in the afternoon and by the next morning that attic had frozen solid. The expansion of the ice had caused structural failure and the house had collapsed. Had it been occupied, the people would have been crushed by all the ice. Without a doubt, soffit vents provide the greatest saftey.
*I read an article recently that was absolutely amazing in repspects to "air tight" houses. This article, and the convention about which it spoke were just a few days after 60 Minutes, or 20/20, or whichever show it was aired the segment about sick houses. This organization, and the convention was for HVAC companies, and it was their annual national convention. During this convention, they publicly, and almost unanimously voted to accept the findings that air tight houses were killing some people, and making others very sick. They based their findings on scientific evidence, as well as their own studies and investigations for the last year. The testing and studies were proposed at their last annual convention, and this year they presented their findings, and voted on a resolution. Air tight houses are bad. This is their simple statement. They now agree that venting is the best way to keep the occupants safe. They concluded that this idea may not be the cheapest in terms of heating and cooling the homes, but it was indeed the safest for the occupants. They went into great detail about the backdrafting problems, CO2 levels, etc... I am currently trying to find the names of the governing officials of the organization's national office. When I do, I will post them, along with their mailing addresses, or web addresses. Then we can all ask them some more questions such as who exactly did the testing, if the results are indeed scientific or just assumptions, and why they suddenly changed their minds. I have to wonder if people getting sick because of their heating and cooling units contaminating the homes had anything to do with their decisions (liability issues).Anyway, I will keep you all informed. This could get very intersting before it is all over.James DuHamel
*.......Babe , your chicken-shit experiment must have been financed by the Soffit vent conspirators....obviously they couldn't allow one of my fan attics in the experiment,,,or even a couple of turbine vents.....not much of a scientific experiment , now , was it ???
*Babe, Maybe it's just me but I was totally lost until I got to Your post. Thanks for the insightful information and I was thinking that the house with all the ice overhead would be a real bitch to heat. Also IMHO the finest grains and grasses make for the tenderest steaks and in being digested become the bullshit that Joe refers to, and down here even bullshit has a use. Skip
* Skip,
Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
*Joe:Some folks haven't been around long enough to remember that I mean, b Babe and "Freddy Lu" were the best of buddies. Having been there, it makes it easier to connect the dots. One problem: On my next house, I'll build the attic as tight as a mayonnaise jar but I think I'll choose to build the with the water i outside rather than inside. Only thing that I haven't figured out is what I'll use in place of that Vaseline seal you refer to around the lid to make it i perfectly airtight and submersible. Maybe I can commission a ship wright to build the top end of the house! (TIC)
*All this "experiment" proves is that if you have a hose running water into your attic the most effective solution (aside from shutting off the hose) is to install a FLOOR DRAIN in the attic. Please don't waste the server space. Save the BS for the tavern!EB
* Eric M. Borgman,
Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
*Joe,So you're Babe Mardell? It was that post (No. 4)and it's ridiculous sounding "experiment" I was responding to. But you're just too much of a pompous self-absorbed jackass to realize that not everyone is out to discredit you and your theories. I may have been the last person on this board who didn't totally discount your posts as the rantings of a lunatic. Is it lonely up there? Just you and God?Fare thee well, Mr. Fusco.
*Easy Eric,I think most people around here know that Babe Mardell is one of FredL's creations (like his stick figure cartoons). It's a parody of Gabe Martel, another Breaktime regular (up until the last few months). Gabe engaged in many disagreements with FredL and things got personal between them. FredL has that effect. I admired Gabe for standing up to FredL. I think he just got tired of the exchanges. I admire Joe's persistance. I'm afraid I don't have the energy to carry on a daily debate. I do however follow them.John
*Better use KY, you just never know.
*Lonecat, my man... great insight as usual... I mean, someone could Blow A Seal with the wrong lubricant!
* Eric M. Borgman,
Joseph Fusco View Image "The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." -- Plato
*.......GWC...good reference..when we were driving coffer dam steel piling and we couldn't hold a seal, the old timers would pour uncooked oatmeal down the joints... it would expand ... and voila.. the pumps could keep up..maybe we should start sustituting oatmeal for the cellulose, hmmmm
*... or Blow A Seal more i efficientlyusing the right lubricant.Course their could be collateral problems differentiaiting Seal Blow by from lube smear.. . -pm