I am refinishing my kitchen with laminate flooring from Ikea. The floor area isn’t too big at approximately 130 square feet.
It has simple tongue and groove edging and I was wondering if I should use some sort of clamp to ensure the seams are hidden or simply rely on hammering the boards together?
Secondly, I don’t want to leave a ½ inch gap near the door jams, as I am unable to undercut the molding. If I leave a half inch everywhere else and an eighth of an inch in this area (and caulk) will this matter too much?
Replies
I haven't used IKEA, but if it is similar to Pergo you will need special strap clamps to pull the whole floor together while the glue dries. (Unless the floor has some sort of locking joint.) The joints won't stay together by themsleves.
It would be best to by a jamb saw ($15.00) to under cut the door casings, but if you would rather not cut the jambs you should be able to get by with 1/8th inch space. the laminate is pretty stable unless it gets wet... Which is a good lead into my next point.
Unless you are absolutly set on laminate flooring, don't do it. I will never again recomend laminate for any of my projects, and I strongly try to talk my customers out of it if they suggest it. It is not a good material
Here is why
Water if the first danger. If the seams are perfect, the top of the floor is water resistant, (not proof) and the seams are hardly ever perfect. if water gets into a faulty seam, forget it. the substrate will swell and peel the finish off. You also have to be very careful not to get water near the edges for the same reason. This would not be such a fatal flaw if the stuff were easy to repair, which it is not. In fact it can be almost impossible to do a repair in the center of a floor with out tearing up half of the floor in the process.
2nd it is not that durable. If you drop something heavy on it, it will dent, and when it dents the substrate shows through and looks terrible. But Don't just take my word for it, I have some customers who will glady tell you that the worst mistake they made was not listening to me on the laminate.
This stuff belongs in the same trash heap with Quest piping, and Masonite siding.
Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Im with you on the laminate flooring ,the laminate is less than that of a counter top it scratches easy, I did two projects with the stuff and I wish I had not,o yea it comes with a repair kit! a putty stick.
you can do a search for a post I wrote last year about a laminate floor problem, btu here is the really good stuff, after a water leak the floor soaked up water like a sponge, and all the damaged material had to be removed, I cut the majority out with a circular saw, then went back with a laminate router and a tiny bit and routed it up to the adjacent board, chisiling the corners square, and then routing a groove on the flat edge to accept the tounge of the new pieces. It was the most difficult, precise work I've ever done.
The repair came out ok, but it forever changed my attitude towards laminate. Never again.Justus Koshiol
Running Pug Construction
Justus,
Great information on laminate for the uneducated. I'm curious though, in the same scenario (water damage, say in a kitchen) how do wood floors react? Maybe cork? It seems the only things not susceptable to water damage are vinyl, linoleum, concrete or tile, all of which are kind of hard on the feet.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Scott
Cork is a superb kitchen floor material, but most of it is now sold glued to an MDF backer just much of the laminate flooring. Same water issue. You can find 12 x 12 and 12 x 24 solid cork floor tiles, which you glue down like you would any vinyl/rubber tile. Voila , no backer to swell up. If you ever did any fishing as a kid, and saw a cork bobber floating around, you'll get the idea that it won't absorb water. You do, however, have to have a very smooth underlayment in place, so you won't have any unevenness telegraphing through.
The tiles come in several thicknesses. Go for the thick ones, about 4mm or so. Some examples are at http://www.expanko.com. There are others. I posted a list of cork sites a while back; do a search for "cork" and you'll probably find it. Done properly, this floor will last up to 40 years, and can be sanded and refinished.
Cork is very resilient, though over time a pressure point will leave a dent; don't set a table with small legs on it for an extended period. It also has a very distinctive organic kind of smell, which I rather like, but I suspect you wouldn't want it in a spec house. I'm guessing that this smell disappates over time. Anyone know?? At any rate, it's a hypoallergenic material, so the smell isn't going to create any health problems.
Regarding the laminate flooring, I think some of the better manufacturers use a thin plywood backer, which doesn't make it a perfect material, but eliminates the type of swelling you get when water hits MDF or other fiberboard.
I've had nothing but good experiences with laminate floors. 'Course, we only use the snap-lock variety. In fact most flooring vendors in my area don't even sell the glue-together variety--it's an inferior product.
But I've found with laminate flooring, as with anything else, you get what you pay for. If your laminate flooring didn't cost between $3.50 and $4.50 per s.f., you probably bought junk. "Shaw" or "Mohawk" comes to mind. Stay away from the crap sold at HD. And installation costs around here average about $2.50-4.00 s.f. including the pad. I've got a somewhat higher end product in my house by Colombia. It's great. It's a thicker product by about 1/8th inch than the average stuff. It can't burn (important for me as I use a wood stove exclusively) and the panels are wider by about 2". It installed easily (one day for appx. 400 s.f.). The seams are perfectly tight and nearly invisible. And a floor installer I know said he'd ripped up a floor with the same stuff in a kitchen that flooded and the subfloor was still bone-dry. (Haven't tested that yet!)
Only draw-back: it will scratch if you really try. Denting it is much harder to do, however. The cheap stuff, I concede, scratches and dents very easily. And the seams aren't tight. And it is a bit more difficult to install.
But the stuff is basically maintenance free. It looks great. And it won't kill you on the cost if you install it yourself. Again, stay away from the cheap brands. Use the snap lock. And be generally careful with your floor (don't drag heavy appliances across it without a pad). It should last as long as you want it to. Water is never really an issue, unless you have kiddies who regularly flood your floors--which in any case should be unacceptable behavior in any house no matter what type of flooring.
Thanks for all the replies. I have been busy installing the flooring. It took me two days single handed to install 130 square in my kitchen. And part from being very sore and tired everything went pretty well and the floor looks great!
I called Ikea and was told I could rent a Prego installation kit from Home Depot. That came with an installation video and was essential to installing this tongue and groove flooring. The installation information from Ikea is appalling, no mention of using clamps anywhere in their literature. Even using strap clamps I have several small seams (1/2 mm) that I will have to fill in. The only filler Ikea had is a minute two part “repair kit”, too small to be of any use. I am experimenting with latex caulking to fill these seams. Any other suggestions would be appreciated. The staff at Ikea was nice but somewhat poorly informed but I was given their installer’s cell number and will be contacting him for further info.
I conducted an experiment and soaked a piece of the flooring in a bucket of water over night. I expected it to disintegrate. It swelled up slightly but held together very well. I would imagine that if the floor got a good soaking the worse that would occur is that the seams would become much more noticeable. The sample shrunk back to normal after being left to dry out. I am caulking the entire perimeter to help prevent water damage.
My other concern is the glue that is used in the construction. It seemed to clean up too easily with water. I would have liked to see better water resistance.
I still have to install the ¼ round. If I had to do it again I would look for the snap tight type but the Ikea brand had the best pattern of any of the flooring I found. Another reason that I installed the flooring is that I expect this house to be torn down once I sell so that inexpensive flooring was mandatory.
One more thing - it is not fun to install! Very stessful!
Edited 11/28/2002 9:55:18 AM ET by ASENNAD
That's an interesting point about costs, knowing the house will be torn down. Can you give a description of the scenerio you're in for my 'widening my base of knowledge' file. :o) Let the thunder crack and the waves roar.
We're going on.
The houses in this neighborhood are being replaced with homes that maximize space (monster homes) and my house being would most likely be bought by a builder and replaced with a larger one. Why spend the money on hardwood or vinyl which when I can install flooring for $1.19 (CDN) a square foot knowing that when I sell the house I won’t recoup the cost? Besides I like the look of the flooring if modernizes and cleans up the kitchen without costing an arm and a leg.
Funny you should write this post. Sounds similar to my day yesterday. My client called me in a panic when they realized there was much more to the installation than the salesperson told them. Their dilema was much the same as yours. The only way I could figure to do it was to scribe and fit each course as I laid them in. Sometimes it was only the ends that needed scribing which was fairly easy but when it came to the sides it not only required a coping saw but also some freehand work on the table saw. The tricky part was keeping a uniform 1/4" gap at the sides and ends. Once that was established I used a almond tinted silicon caulk to fill in the gaps. This caulk closely matched the light oak color of the flooring. Because the edges and ends were uniform it didn't look too bad and I doubt if the average person would even notice the caulk. This particular floor was the snap together stuff so the last course was the most difficult and required a lot of whittling to get it in and fitting right.
All in all it wasn't fun and certainly not as easy as it showed in the video that came with the stuff. By the way, I hate caulk when its used to cover up problems but in this case it seemed to be the only alternative since baseboard was not in this customers list of options.
As a side note, they bought the materials from a discount lumber dealer and got a heck of a deal. However, whatever they saved on the flooring went down the tubes on the labor.
It has simple tongue and groove edging and I was wondering if I should use some sort of clamp to ensure the seams are hidden or simply rely on hammering the boards together?
I think your first order of business is to contact the manufacturer of your flooring and ask for a set of installation instructions. You may be able to get this via the web. If you want the product to perform to its maximum potential, do it how the mfg wants, or the won't warranty it.