Replies

1. 
   junkhound | May 06, 2016 10:02am | #1

   Edge you counters with oak salvaged from old pallets, pallets should be available anywhere via CL.  CL is best place to 'buy', preferably the 'free' column.

   Use 50 grit in you sander to scuff up the existing formica, bond the new right to that, dont tr;y to remove the old - or use new plywood tops, tear off the old.

   Old pallets again for the backsplash, bond formica to the oak first, then route the edge and install.  blue tape along joint, color matched silicone with finger wipe,  and strip tape after cure.

   all done

2. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 06, 2016 11:13am | #2

   Laminates have come a long way since I first used them. WilsonArt offers custom edges that can be ordered in matching or contrasting patterns. The best place to buy is neither a box store nor a small retailer, but a stocking distributor. You should have one somewhere nearby. I just completed kitchen and bath counters using WilsonArt laminates with their edges. I used glass tile for a backsplash. You should replace the counter tops. If they are very old then the substrait is probably old particle board. MDF is my choice these days (yes it's a lot different than particle board). Just be aware there's no room for error when working with laminates. 

1. 
   jimmiem | May 07, 2016 09:02am | #3

   Do you recommend installing the new mdf substrate and then applying the laminate or prebuilding the whole counter and installing as a postformed would be.  I'm thinking install the substrate and wood edging first and then the laminate, but I will be working alone and doing it this way will have the kitchen out of commission for longer than my wife would like.  

1. 
   Geoffrey | May 07, 2016 09:58pm | #6

   jimmiem,

   What you have is called post-formed counter tops, the other method of fabrication (style) is called square-edge counters. Post- formed is one continuous piece of laminate. Square-edge counters are fabricated in 2 pieces the counter-top base and a loose back splash which is square-edged and installed on top of the counter after it (the counter) is installed.

   "Do you recommend installing the new mdf substrate and then applying the laminate or prebuilding the whole counter and installing as a postformed would be....."

   Neither, fabricate the back splash separate from the counter, finished on 2 sides, the front and the top edge. If this splash is installed between 2 walls your done, if you have an exposed end, that needs to be finished as well.Fabricate the pieces about an inch or so longer than you need, so you can trim to fit, unless both ends are finished in which case you build to the finish dimension. You only finish ends that are visible. Fabricate the base by finishing the exposed edges first, leaving a1/8" or so  above the surface of the ply then router flush. After all edges that need to be finished are done install the top surface, leaving 1/4"

   long on all edges, then router flush to the finished/unfinished edges. Fit and install the top. You can cut the top a 1/4' short of the walls as the backsplash will cover that gap, this makes it a lot easier to fit the splash between 2 walls. Then comes  the backsplash,typically install the back piece first, then the ends, so as you look at the counter top from the room you don't see the joint lines.

   This style of counter allows you to scribe the back and sides of the counter to the walls, if needed, and gives a better fit and easier install.

   Just to clarify, you are building the new counter top/backsplashes separately, only removing existing backsplash pieces as needed to get measurements for fabrication of the new counter. This will make the "boss" much happier!

   I am assuming you are installing between 2 walls, if you have an "open" end then the top will have a finished edge w/ no splash.

   But that end of the back-splash against the wall will be a finished end.

   Hope this is helpfull,

   Good Luck!

   Geoff

2. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 08, 2016 11:44am | #7

   Fabrication

   First of all I don't like or recommend laminate back splashes. They are always the first point of failure. Also a contrasting back splash looks much better. 

   The attached pictures are the kitchen and bath that I just did. I used Wilson Art laminates an custom edging to match. The edging I chose is keyed into the edge of the counter and glued on. It can be fabricated with different laminates on the face and the bevel. It leaves no laminate edges exposed. At my supplier, EB Bradley on the west coast, the cost to me was about $4 / lf. They have detailed instructions on how to do it. It's not hard if you are used to working to the tollerances necessary. As I said there's no room for error. Wood edging is certailnly an attractive option. 

   If you fabricate all the countertops in the shop there will be much less down time for your kitchen and much, much less mess. For this project I rough cut the counter tops in MDF to 1/4" or so of actual size and laminated the top. Then thickened the edges with a strip of MDF. Then I cut the counter to size using a 2" top pilot router bit. I groved the sides of the edges and glued on the edging no further triming was necessary. Only then did I remove the existing counters. The new ones were ready to install with construction adhesive. You can imagine what kind of dust cutting the MDF with a router can generate. I did all the cut outs in the shop. Once lthe counters were in, I installed the drop ins, stove, sink etc. I had everything back on line even before the backsplash. I'm sure your wife will appreciate the short down time and mess. If you have multiple counters you can do them one at a time.

   
3. 
   Condoman | May 07, 2016 09:31am | #4

   I replaced a laminate counter built in the 60's.  The counter was plywood with metal trim at the edges and backslash.  The edge trim came off easy the other not so much.  Since the counter was built in place by the owner/carpenter with way too many nails on hand a rip out would destroy the kitchen.

   The counter needed to be screwed down in a few loose places.  Then I roughed up with 100 grit sanding.  I had to use the solvent contact adhesive as the non-solvent was not rated for laminate on laminate.  A fan with an induction motor (no sparks) was placed in the window to help the vapors exit. The old counter had 4 seams and the new, because I could buy a 12 foot piece, had only one seam.

   After applying and triming in place I made custom maple molding stained to match the original cabinets. This was applied with clear silicone caulk and 23 gauge pins.  Finally a tile backsplash was installed over the old laminate one using Bondera for mounting.  The last few inches of backsplash was painted.

   Every step was planned and prepared in advance to minimize downtime. Each night the kitchen was back in operation even though I had to re-install the sink three times.

4. 
   gfretwell | May 07, 2016 04:38pm | #5

   I saw an interesting spin on mica edges in a rental. They had a notch cut on the edge and a piece of Corian type material was laid in there and routed flush with the mica.

5. 
   renosteinke | May 08, 2016 02:21pm | #8

   Counter Making 101

   I don't like to just cover the laminate with a new layer, as there are many opportunities for problems that way.

   First off, the substrate (wood under the laminate) is likely damaged. This is usually in the form of swelling and mold from moisture. Apart from the obvious, such things will cause the counter to have high and low spots in it. Then. despite the most carepul preparation, laminate facings are made in ways that make them poor candidates for glue. Finally, there's not much economy in the task.

   To make a countertop, you start with the substrate. Cut it to size. Now is the time to apply a wood edging- you don't want any seams on the top surface, as that's a place to catch water and grime.Use a hand plane to trim the edge treatment to be exactly flush with the substrate.

   I prefer plywood for the substrate, and I use multiple layers to build up to the thichness I want. I use screws to 'clamp' the pieces together as the glue dries, then remove the screws later. Missed screws can damage cutting tools and show through the laminate. I use fender washers under the screws to keep them from dimpling the plywood. Your substrate should be at least an inch over-size in every direction. Make certain the piece lays FLAT as the glue cures; cover it with weights (boxes of tile work well) to keep it flat as the glue cures.

   Once you have the base sheet - it should be over an inch thick - you can add strips around the perimeter to build up the thickness of the edges.

   Once the substrate is ready, you can attach the laminate. The laminate should slightly overhang every side. Use extra care in placing glue along the edges and wherever there will be cuts made.

   Don't try to rush things; make sure the contact cement is DRY before you assemble the pieces.

   Even though contact cement is said to work 'instantly,' I still like to let it sit - with weights atop the pieces- overnight, before I start 'working' the top.

   I cut the raw top using a steel channel to guide my saw and router.  I make all openings before I attach the backsplash.

   For the backsplash, I rout away the laminate to a width slightly less than the thickness of the backsplash. I'll glue the backsplash in place Gorilla glue, cleaning up squeeze-out right away. Once the glue has cured, I'll reinforce the glue by adding screws from underneath. (You'll want to pre-drill for the screws). You need this strength, as you;ll be using a belt sander to match the backsplash to the wall; that's why backsplashes typically are a bit thicker at the top.

   Finally, once the counter is installed, I make sure every possible place water can enter is sealed. That means a tiny amount of polyurethane caulk pressed into the backslpash / counter seam, and plumbers' putty under the sink rim and faucet base.

1. 
   jimmiem | May 08, 2016 07:14pm | #9

   Thank You.  I like the idea of pre-building. There are 3 areas of the kitch where prebuilding will work well.  The tricky area is where the sink is and it is quite large.  I'll try to attach a diagram with dimensions. It's a Sketcup file.  The large area has 2 diagonal seams.  How to prebuild?  Thank You.

   
1. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 08, 2016 09:54pm | #10

   Seams.

   Unless your pattern has a distinct linear graiin you don't need the seam on the right. You can get a piece 144" x 36". I'd  prefabricate the right hand piece in the shop. Don't make the laminate seam over a seam in the substrait. Make the substrait square on the left end. You could build the whole thing in the shop if you reinforce the substrait seam well enough. Otherwise, mock the whole thing up in the shop, over lap the laminate at the seam and scribe it with a pencil. Cut along the scribed lines using a very straight straight edge and a router. I use a machinist's straight edge. Laminate the right piece and install. Install the dogleg substrait an laminate it it in place. You'll probably have to trim the edges after it is installed. If it is a peninsula that means three sides. 

1. 
   jimmiem | May 09, 2016 08:21am | #11

   Like This

   Is this what you mean?  I painted each section a different color.

   
1. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 09, 2016 11:36am | #12

   Substrait

   That's what your substrait should look like. The left hand seam in the laminate should be on the diagonal, a miter at the corner. 

2. 
   jimmiem | May 09, 2016 02:01pm | #13

   Thank You.  I understand.  Now, all that's left is to do it!!!

   Also, what type of MDF do you recommend?

   Thank You

3. 
   Mike_Mahan | May 09, 2016 04:09pm | #14

   No particular kind. I like MDF because it's more stable than plywood and won't delaminate. Looking at your plans again I realize that you're going to need another seam in the substrait to build it out of 4x8 mdf. Don't line up the laminate seams with the mdf seams. 

   Go to the WilsonArt or Formica website to find a distributor to the trades. 

4. 
   jimmiem | May 09, 2016 06:26pm | #15

   I was wondering about the size of the substrate.  I saw something on the internet indicating that I could get a 12 foot piece of mdf.  I'm trying to think about how I would move it around.  Probably not a good idea to try and move a piece that long.   This may come down to doing this piece in place.  I'll tell my wife she won a trip, but I have to stay home to mow the lawn and incidentally do the kitchen counters.

6. 
   gfretwell | May 10, 2016 10:48am | #16

   This is that corian insert on the edge I was talking about. If I was doing mica I would certainly consider it. It eliminated chipped edges.

   View Image

1. 
   jimmiem | May 10, 2016 12:24pm | #17

   Nice Edge Treatment

   That is a nice way to finish an edge.  Thank You for taking the time to post the picture.