Large or small crews? which are more productive.
Is it more productive to run a small framing crew with highly qualified journeyman carpenters, or a large framing crew with one or two highly qaulified journeyman carpenters and the rest apprentices? What are your thoughts and/or experiences?
Replies
How about medium? 2 journeymen and 2 or 3 sharp apprentices that you don't have to babysit, and can trust not to jump off a wall onto a nail, or take a nap when you send them for studs. They keep ahead of the journeyman laying out materials, fetching more cords and nails, cutting blocks, making donut runs.
Worked as an apprentice on a large framing crew...the framers were moving so fast they forgot a lot of details, often used too few nails, studs would twist. A "pickup crew" would come behind, straightening studs, putting in blocking, straps, adding drywall backing, etc. Seemed like a waste.
On a two person crew (my brother and I) we "burned" a lot of time by running for materials ourselves, and figuring out how to raise walls, etc that would've been easier with 3 or 4 bodies.
Don't know if this answers your question, medium crews are the most productive.
Jen
(Where am I gonna put all this new stuff?)
I suspect that I'm in the best position to answer that. I sell construction forklifts to people and see both ways all of the time.
The answer is.....
Both and it depends.
If you are a hands on kinda guy who wants to control things (hey, your name is going on the work why shouldn't you?) then by all means do not get beyond a three man crew. One forklift and three guys who know what they are doing can build a typical 2500 sq.ft. two story walkout in 4 to 5 days.
Minimal costs, very efficent and as long as everyone goes on vacation at the same time, works well. (and gets sick etc.)
However, the guys who have made it big here in Minnesota all run multiple crews. They can use a few guys on one project to get it going and start collecting progress payments, while the majority finish up on the big townhouse/apartment project. The cream will always rise to the top and you will see who you can promote to foreman. You can bring in new guys at a lower wage and teach them the correct way to build (and not break bad habits) If some one gets the flu and is out there is enough hands to take up the slack.
The downside is you will spend all of your time in the office doing administration work and dealing with customers/ developers. you will need a cell phone implanted in your ear and have to remember a thousand and one details about 7 differant projects.
I am a builder who uses a 15 man framing crew on all my homes .Ihave spoken with the owner of the company about exactly what you want to know .He has two lead carpenters that are capable of doing anything that comes down the pike. The rest of his guy's are helpers and laborers. heres the thing ,with the big crew you need big work there arent alot of big crews anymore which is a good thing .having two good carpenters allows him to split up and cover as many as three jobs at any time or get every one together when he needs to bang somthing out . the key to his success is simple. he is very good at framing and people like me wait for him because they know that when he is on the job there are no problems.I can put him on a 12000 sq.ft. house and not have to worry about that job for four weeks.that free's me up . In today's work place the level of incompetence is staggering almost to the point where i have wondered whether its even worth the aggrevation any more .So be good at what you do and you can make it work any way you want big or small.Build it right and they will come!!!! Tag.
I wiil be starting a 2700 sq. ft. custom home in mid January. It has a cut roof and will also be doing the exterior trim. I've decided to go with a three man crew. I'll be doing all the layout, the apprentice will be banging nails and a laborer. I've found that throwing more guys at a job doesn't always increase production, half the time you end up babysitting. I am curious to know what you decide, good luck!
many hands make light work, or is it work light?
as soon as you deck the roof staple on some felt maybe and then launch into interior partitions, blocking, etc, then tackle the exterior trim. The idea is to get the trades in there working away while you trim out the outsiden etc...
I second the both, and it depends answer.
Regarding typical residential work, the most profitable framing job, is the one with the fewest guys ( But then again, I strive for efficiency even if it takes longer). If need to meet a production schedule, then this rule might not apply.
I don't need anyone who is happy being called a laborer on my frame jobs. The average "carpenter" can do any laborer job many times more effciently. Ultimately the laborer ends up doing framing work many times more inneffectively. If you are that busy that you need laborers, by a machine.
Do a search for some a pictorial thread that Blue posted a while back. He had a lot of good framing input until he sold out and went into network marketing.
Anyone know how the prepaid legal is going for him?
Anyhow safetyboss, you're going to have to find out for yourself what works best for you.
Tom
I liked to run two carpenters, me being one, with a less experienced person for each to work with. If the house was big enough, it was nice to have a fifth man, too. I've framed with two, three,four and five man crews. Never figured out which worked best, it was too hard to find and keep people that would make a hand.
me plus 3 is my ideal...
i've run solo to 5 carps plus me...
i like the 3 plus me.. and joint venture with some of the friendly competition for the really big jobs or the big portions of themMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I have no empirical evidence for this, but it seems that the job goes smoothest with a 4-person crew:
A lead guy with a helper that does layout and anything that might require head-scratching or intimate familiarity with the plans.
And a journeyman with a helper that can bust out all the repetitive stuff.
This works pretty good as long as materials are on site and the lead guy doesn't have to be on the cell all the time (sure). You go with three guys and unless they have worked together for a long time, there is less focus and more bouncing around. Going with more makes sense only if the house is huge, inordinately complicated, needs to be done yesterday, is being built cost plus (a bunch), etc.
So, I guess for the perfect job, that would be the perfect crew. Good Luck!
,earl
"He who xxxxs nuns will later join the church." -The Clash