Does anyone have any experience using the new inexpensive laser levels like Strait-Line or Ryobi that send a supposedly level laser beam in several directions? These all seem to use a couple of bubble vials to level them, but I question how accurate these would be.
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Bubble vials on a laser make it a spirit level with funky lights. They might have their uses, but none a PLS2/5 can't do amazingly better.
Edit, How's that for tool snobbery?
Edited 6/1/2005 5:49 pm ET by NickNuke'em
This is one tool where it makes sense to spend a few extra bucks and get one that self-levels. They are vastly more convenient, and more accurate un less you enjoy turning leveling screws to center the bubble. Then somebody bumps the table and it's no longer level.
Lowes has a David White self-leveler for about $100 ... maybe a little less. certainly accurate enough for most HO's.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Does anyone know of any good reviews? I'm looking for something I can use outdoors for landscape work (including decks, fences etc) as well as the occasional indoor job
I have been asking FH to do that for months. Maybe if enough of us spoke up they would listen and put a review together.
Laser levels are on our '06 "to do" list. Help us get a good start by telling us what jobs you find them most useful for, where you don't find them useful and what aspects of the tool you'd like to see rated.
Thanks,
Brian P.
Help us get a good start by telling us what jobs you find them most useful for
You want the answerrs here or in a different thread?
I use it for transaferring layout lines from the floor to the ceiling.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
My uses. setting levels across fence and deck projects (need a bright beam for this), transferring lines around a room or along a wall. Shingling or any other application where you need a level across a large space. SurveyingI'm a landscape gardener and since most outdoor work doesn't have to be all that precise, my basic goal is something which is fast and simple to use, I want greater precision with less effort and the ability to transfer levels around large spaces.
Got one of these. Used it for a deck on a job. Worked well enough but... with the rotor on full 360 out in the bright sun there is no way you can see the laser line. Used it with just the red dot and moved the rotor by hand to each point I needed. sure took the guess work out of cutting my 4x4 posts. Next project will be a drop ceiling for my parents place. I'll let you know how that goes.
View Image"Sir! You are drunk!"
"Madam! You are ugly, and tomorrow I shall be sober!!" Winston Churchill
When marking out a room for cabs or trim, I mark the center of the beam's line, what do you mark? This is a raging debate amongst my trim carpentry company. My thinking is that the center is the most consistent as the beam widens at a greater distance because of diffusion. As I understand it any laser beam is actually conical in shape, albeit very tight. Therefore the center of the beam would be the same around the room as it is impossible to place the emitter perfectly centered from every wall. My thoughts are grounded in a basic understanding of physics but I would like to hear prevailing best practices.
The PLS2 looks like a good choice. But as a weekend warrior, I am not sure I am ready to spend that much on it.
The David White/Lasermark Mark 2 at Lowes is only $88.
Its accuracy is 1/4" in 30 feet. Does that seem reasonable????
I've had same problem. Again and again they want to mark top or bottom, The beam dissapates. The center is definately the truest point
I've been wondering this exact same question myself. Has anyone actually checked to see if the beam is expanding like a cone? Could it be that the bottom or the top is actually more level?
If the beam is expanding like a cone or as I said dissapating and you mark the wall two feet from the laser, where the beam is tightest and then mark 50 or so feet away where the cone is open more or the beam has dissapated marking the top or bottom will throw you off half the difference between the thickness between the beam at the first mark and the beam at the second mark. I don't have any scientific data for this. Only experience. ...and I insist they mark the center. This distance might be pretty minute but hey why not get it exact.
Edited 6/3/2005 8:00 pm ET by quicksilver
From my understanding of optical physics, all lasers expand in a conical manner as the photons interact with each other and bump into each other, expanding the cone with distance. The quality of the emitter's lenses and mirrors improves this behavior but it still occurs. I too have checked with Stabila 72"-ers and found the center more consistent. Just wondering if anyone else found this too be true, thanx for the feedback.
Anyone have any thoughts or experience with this CST/Berger Laser Mark laser level?
The application is going to be almost solely outdoor stuff - site work, footers, masonry, foundations, decks, etc. A fixed beam laser will not get it. What I want is a automatic leveling, rotating level that will be used with a grade rod, sensor-dector mounted to the rod, and tripod. The use would not be constant - maybe 4 hrs a month - more checking others work, setting a few grade stakes, that kind of thing...
I've had a laser similar to this one (actually the yellow RoboToolz version) for about 6 years and it has served me well, but looking for the beam for up to 10 minutes per shot is definitely getting old.
I notice the RoboToolz lasers use a simple pendulum for the automatic leveling function, where as the CST/Berger one I have linked to above uses some kind of servo motors, etc, to auto-level itself. I wonder which mechanism is better?
Also, the CST/Berger unit does not do plumb - which I have never actually wanted, - is that used mainly for interior work?
Edited 5/1/2006 6:57 am ET by Matt
Bump...
OK, I guess no one knows anything about that specific laser as it is relatively new...
Does anyone have any general experience with laser levels for site work? Again a fixed beam type of laser won't work for this application.
Does anyone know anything specific about automatic leveling mechanisms for laser levels?
Around here the excavators seem to have Spectra Physics lasers. The head unit is quite large, at least the size of a half-gallon of milk. There is no visible beam and the detector is used 100% of the time and always on the grade rod. They are self-leveling as long as you get them within tolerances on the tripod. They read at least several hundred feet away, and the laser detector has an LED readout that shows you how many sixteenths you are from zero.
When I work with my excavator I am often the grade rod guy while he drives the machine. It is quite easy to use that setup once you get used to the readout and figure out how to turn the beeper down. He has a clamp that connects the detector to the bucket for working solo.
They cost $1500-3000, I think, a lot more than the CST. I fail to see how a plumb beam would work for you outdoors... there's nothing to plumb up, unless I guess you're shooting down a hole. I have never used mine outside, except on the exterior of a building.
I wonder how durable that CST is? Working out in the dirt is a lot rougher than inside.
Thanks for the response.
>> When I work with my excavator I am often the grade rod guy while he drives the machine. << I haven't done that since... today! I was actually working with one of the landscaper's operators. My current site is a difficult one. Lots of slope and large buildings. The challenge is to get the water to run away from the building on the high side. I had a DW laser that belongs to my company - which is OK, but the manual leveling takes maybe 5 minutes each time you set it up. Also, that laser is shared between 8 or so superintendents, so sometimes it's not available when I need it.
Another one I was looking at is this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000066JSC/qid=1146279569/sr=8-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-1521517-8088909?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=228013
My retaining wall guy has one of those and you can set it up in 30 seconds.
I just cant justify a $1500 - $3000 laser.
>> I wonder how durable that CST is? Working out in the dirt is a lot rougher than inside. << That's one of the reasons I was asking. I have had such good luck with my RoboToolz cheepie, which BTW I have taken really good care of, that I think I would take a chance on the CST/Berger. I know they are one of the name brands for the simpler surveying tools.
I use that same one, great tool. I use an aftermarket grade rod most of the time.
The thing that impressed me about the one you have was the super fast setup, since the thing stores fully "assembled" it couldn't be any quicker and it's all in one box, rather than having 3 things to carry - laser case, tripod, & rod. Question - does yours auto-level via a pendulum or via servo motors? If it is a pendulum, does it have a pendulum lock mechnism so that during transport the pendilum doesn't get josteled around?
I'm a bit suspicious that the servo motor design could mean some complicated electro-mechanical stuff that could mess up. OTOH, I gather that pendulum types can get knocked out of wack during transport or other rough handling.
BTW - >> I use an aftermarket grade rod most of the time. << Does that mean a 2x4-16' laid out with a magic marker? :-) It does annoy me that many of these kits come with 8' rods (not long enough) that they are laid out in inches - site plans (at least around here) are done in 10ths and 100ths of a foot.
Edited 5/7/2006 1:15 pm ET by Matt
"OK, I guess no one knows anything about that specific laser as it is relatively new..."
Wrong, that is a nice laser. Now I know of one heck of a deal for a manual rotary laser with a detector, but if you insist on a self-leveling laser you ought to look at the Robotoolz RT5250-2XP. You won't find a better S-L rotary in the price range and it has a dual plumb beam.
This kit comes with a wall bracket and detector for a super price
Edited 5/7/2006 2:12 pm ET by Qtrmeg
Matt, Does that robo also shoot a rotating plumb beam? or simply a plumb line? Hey, you going To TipiFest? I'll bring the new DeWalt slider for you to mess with<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Self-level rotary beam w/ second plumb point beam. What's cool about it is you can calibrate it to dead nuts on. The single beam 5250 is good too, but the really hot deal is the Robo 3620 kit. Manual adjusted, but I've been manually adjusting levels since these newbies had to have someone change their draws. ;-)
Any of those flip to work vertically or horizontal.
It's all about how much you have to use the level. Let's get real, there is no reason to need two people anymore. The choice is how often do you use a level, and what do you use it for.
Snort, if you happen to know a good finish guy, recommend the X beam laser. Wicked super tool, but a whole dif animal. Did someone want to do a test? Bah, I have used just about every laser known to man and there are 3 basic types. The rotary laser is my goto laser, but the X beam is next, then the 5 beam point beam laser. That's just me, your milage may vary.
I went to Mikefest, where were you? Save the Dewalt worship, I have seen the yellow light. They are making some great tools, no question. Their lasers blow, but they don't suck. I really don't like the Dewalt slider better than my old Mak, but I am due for a new saw so my eyes are open.
So what is this x level?...if I ever run into a good trim guy, I'll hire him and buy him an x laser<G>Missed mikefest, but I am heading for andy's, drop down?Just yanking your chain about bring the saw, I can't carry it on<G>I do have a Festool jig saw in an old DeWalt metal crapped out drill box, though...nice box. I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
Where are you gonna find a good finish guy?
X-Beam = Cross Beam laser, like PLS2, but you can buy into the CST/Berger Series for much less. Projects horizontal/vertical lines and you can set for tilt mode to get out of self-level mode and you can use the lines for things like tile layout and such. Very slick.
FH should do an article, but they will just mess it up. Being the bliss ninnies they are.
If you go to Andy's I'll try. It will be a pain, but Andy is very cool, even if he doesn't remember meeting me.
Here's the deal, if I go I bet he doesn't remember again. $100 to you. Do you feel lucky?
Who the hell are you?...you'll be the first to know when I win our brand new lottery<G>X-beam, I thought it was some super hero laser...LOL..I've a Gizmo, been x-beaming for years, and didn't even know, ha. I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
"Who the hell are you?..."
I'm your worst nightmare, baby. You got a problem wit dat? ;-)
Oh the Gizmos are cool, same thing, made by the same co. CST claims the new Stanley X has a 2x brighter beam now, but I'll have to check the next one that goes flying thru here before I believe it.
They are trying to keep up with the PLS2, which has double the range for 2.5 x's the price. Pacific Laser is going to get their clocked cleaned if they don't stop posing. All they sell these days is their name for more than it's worth.
Whatever,
Can't see the gizmo in semi-bright light...but I'm used to operating with dim bulbs<G> I need a dump truck, baby, to unload my head
The LL200
It is a pendulum type and I had it calibrated once since I bought it.( That was after it slid off the tailgate while I was loading the truck) it landed on the head end so I figured I should have it looked at. I have three grade rods, a fiberglass pole type28' reach in tenths, a 16' grade rod in tenths and an 12' inches version thats in the picin the pic.tenths for reading topo and estimating cut/fill, grade, driveway. Inches for layout.
Used a 2x4 at first, ( the rod is way worth it though) easier when your beam is 16 ft overhead, and you can read height right off the rod.As you know, It is an instrument. Treat it with care and it will work for years.EDIT:
Most surveyor instruments are either manual or servo leveled.
Edited 5/7/2006 2:35 pm by LEMONJELLO
I got one of them too
I also mark the center of the ellipse emitted by my RoboLaser.
Have checked along the series of dots with a Stabila 8' -- the center seems to be right, i.e., line of "center of ellipse" dots 1) forms a straight line and 2) reads as level with the Stabila -- I take both of these phenomena to be good signs.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Laser level uses -
Indoors - Reference lines for cabinets.Outdoors - Reference lines for laying up siding, mounting ledger boards for patio covers/decks, fences-height of post and wall-anchor ledgers. 1. How accurate is it over distance; for instance when aimed at a corner how accurate at far corners of house?
2. How easy to line up vertically with a mark that was wrapped around from the other side of the house?
3. How easy is it to set up and level?
4. How well does it work in bright sunlight?
5. How easy to accurately transfer the located level line to the building?BruceT
i've got one of these: http://www.lawson-his.co.uk/scripts/details.php?cat=Stabila%20Laser%20Levels&product=1877and i like it although I do have a hankering for a PLS2.i understand they do one that you can use outside too now???
Reviews at JLC (a couple of years old, but most models still exist):
"Affordable Self-Leveling Lasers":
http://tinyurl.com/dh4sq
"Visible-Beam Rotary Lasers":
http://tinyurl.com/7raby
I've been using a pls 5 for about 2 1/2 years and the bought the pls 360 about a year ago. Either comes with a sensor. I have the sensor for the 360 and I can't say enough good things about these tools. One of my guys puts it best when he says "they'll get ya paid".
I have the Dewalt Rotary laser that manually levels via two vials. It's the version that takes 3 d batteries.It was only $235 refurbed at Amazon, and that included all of the toys - wall mount, laser detector, etc.I have used it extensively for basement remodels: walls, dropped ceilings, built in cabinets, etc. It's especially handy for leveling out ceiling framing - can't trust joists to be level these days... With the detector, I can't wait to use it next time I'm building a deck or installing fencing.I'll tell you one thing - the other day - I accidentally ran into it while it was hanging on the wall mount in this basement - it took a good fall 7" onto the concrete floor. Wasn't hardly scratched - put it back up - re-leveled the vials and was good to go. How many of those fancy self-leveling deals would survive that?I placed some white tape behind the vials to brighten them up, and inside always use a flashlight when leveling. For the money - it's one of the best time savers I own.JT
I have a RoboLaser, ~$250., this design is now marketed by Porter-Cable as part of their RoboToolZ line, Tool Crib has them for $ 237. + shipping in the lastest catalog, our local Lowes also carries.
Self leveling, rotates 360, accuracy +- 1/8" at 100'. Visible laser with a workable range of 100' in sunlight ( 200' dia. circle ).
This laser does not rotate continously, it has a remote control which controls the movement of the laser at 3 different speeds in either direction. It projects a bright dot. Very workable with only 1 person. The newer model also has a dotted line mode (can't comment as my older model does not have this feature).
Will mount on 5/8" tripod screw, 1/4" tripod screw (photographic tripod) or you can simply plunk it down on virtually any roughly level surface, level its adjustable base and have at it.
The "self leveling" is accomplished by a internal pendulum. The integral base lets you level the tool to +- 5 degrees by eye, run the test procedure and put it to use. "Test" is rotating the laser 360 and seeing if it blinks - no blink = ready to use; blink = fiddle with the base some and try again. Very fast set up.
I have used this tool for about 5 years on tripods, a laser pole, and just sitting on whatever was handy (pile of lumber, couple of blocks, foundation wall top, whatever).
The instruction book is about 10 pages long with about 8 of the pages devoted to calibration, a simple process explained in great detail. After calibrating the tool once you will not need the instruction book again.
Calibration is critical -- mine was off by 1-1/4" in 100' when new, easily adjusted to 0. I re-calibrate ( or check ) about once every 3 months or after every drop whichever comes first! Good well padded case provided with tool, but it will only take so much!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.