I have this nail gun invention that I believe has huge potential. The nail gun manufacturers are telling me that no one would buy it. Every tradesman that has seen it loves the idea. Who do you think is right? Any thoughts or comments appreciated.
“http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/”
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Replies
Would be even more useful if it were angled to get into corners
I agree. It is still in the very rough stages. There are lot of changes that need to be made. I'm looking more for input on the concept.
I would put two magazines side-by-side and just pivot the magazines about one inch instead of a 180.
It would be a bit heavy, but might work on some applications.
Additionally, if you made the magazines interchangeable, a person could pick two magazines for their favorite application. You could sell a set of magazines for most common applications.
One problem to overcome would be having the right pressure for the particular nail.
built in regulator at the gun...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I like it. Would it also be safer to remove a jam as you wouldn't have to disconnect the air?
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
That is a very good point. I will include that with my description. Thank you.
I failed to mention earlier. The nail gun manufacturers don't believe me when I tell them that, we as, carpenters carry around two guns.
"The nail gun manufacturers don't believe me when I tell them that, we as, carpenters carry around two guns."
I only carry two guns if I forget the third one at home. ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
they shoud ask us...
sometimes it's 3....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I wouldn't like how the second tip is always down at the other end. This would limit the angles you could shoot at.
The manufacturers don't like it because you would be making there guns semi obsolete. Only selling one gun instead of two. parts and repair for one gun instead of two etc... Granted it would cost more than one gun but probably not as much as two.
I do like the idea. How heavy is it?
Dynamite idea!
I would buy one in a heartbeat!
I don't carry around two guns, but I do constantly change nail lenths. Aside from the headache of stopping to swap, it's a hassle having to keep a spare strip of nails in my pouch without damaging.
My only hesitation would be straight pins. I MUCH prefer an angled nailer.
Aside from that, I'm sold.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and ideas. I see this gun being made in angle and straight pins, also one side shooting 18GA and one side shooting 16GA. The weight of the gun is about 6 LBS. however this is still the first prototype. I made it out of anything that I had laying around in the shop. If you look at the video there is a huge ball bearing that really only needs to be about half that side. The plates holding the magazines together are 1/4" steel. ETC... As I we produce more prototypes these issues will be addressed. I have considered the thought about the manufacturers loss in retail but the opposite of that is also true. There is not one company making all the guns. If one company were to take interest, they would have a corner on the market until the patent runs out.
Best of luck IBI......I've seen the drills that have alternating chucks.
They always hit me as gimmicky.
Your idea looks legit.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
This is exactly what I have been looking for...get it manufactured!
I would make the swivel a quick disconnect and try and make it easy to dismount for extra or different magazines and I would make it to replace existing magazines on different guns and market the magazine setup and try and sell as a gun accessory.
Probably less liability and more market.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Great Ideal. GAS
angled and in two sizes of trim nails....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
bump
Peach full,
easy feelin'.
OK, I would rather have the nailer slide the magazine sideways to swap, instead of rotating. This would permit more than 2 sizes also. Maybe a thumb lever with detents to switch over.
We have already built another prototype with a sliding mechanism. It is very difficult to get into corners, bulky and not very user friendly.
The magazine would have to be very slim for it to be practical.
Definitely has some potential.I agree about the sliding sideways, but I see the problem. Anyways, keep working on it...Looks good so far.
I don't have any use for 16g nails. We use angled 15s and 1 1/2" straight 18g for door/window casings, 2 1/2" 15g for door hanging... has to be angled.I haven't held your version, but it seems it would be a bit clunky with the length... maybe something like a revolver...you'd have to come up with angled brads, which is something I would find very useful, especially if there was a gun to put them in<G> Winterlude, Winterlude, my little daisy,
Winterlude by the telephone wire,
Winterlude, it's makin' me lazy,
Come on, sit by the logs in the fire.
The moonlight reflects from the window
Where the snowflakes, they cover the sand.
Come out tonight, ev'rything will be tight,
Winterlude, this dude thinks you're grand.
Great concept. Good input on how to improve but I haven't heard anyone mention the tool in cordless. It is definitely the way of the future as batteries are much improved over the past couple of years. Don't think you can go wrong for at least giving it a thought. Good luck.
Gary
When they start making the single magazine versions reliable, I'd consider looking at IBI's dual magazinne in a cordless version.
Till then, I'll stick with the compressor and hose.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
I also prefer angle nailers, but I don't think I would use such a gun under any circumstances.
Solar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Your are still swapping guns. Maybe not the hose or pins but you are bending over to set down one gun and pick up a second gun. Further more, not all trim is reachable at ground level. High windows and crown moulding are examples. Working off a ladder or scaffolding has it’s own set of issues that this gun solves. I don’t envision this gun eliminating owning other guns that are more suitable for other applications. The typical nail gun owner has many guns of different shapes and sizes for different applications. Thank you for your input.
I agree with the wieght and bulk comments .. couldn't some one make a nail gun with interchangable firing pins, magazines and adjustable power?
Your are still swapping guns. Maybe not the hose or pins but you are bending over to set down one gun and pick up a second gun. Further more, not all trim is reachable at ground level. High windows and crown moulding are examples. Working off a ladder or scaffolding has it’s own set of issues that this gun solves.
Sorry to put a damper on your enthusiasm - you have come up with a very clever tool - but I see only more problems, not fewer.
If I'm using two guns, I make sure they're both easily within reach so there's no "bending down" or climbing down to get the other. Every job requires proper "staging" to make it efficient. And more often than not, I'll use one gun with one size nail and then simply swap out the nail strip to complete the other half of the job. Easier to carry extra strips than an extra gun (or a heavier and bulkier gun).
And, particularly working at heights or overhead, the weight of the tool is more important than almost anything else. Nail gun manufacturers are always trying to skim that extra couple ounces from their tools for this reason.
Now if you could make this work with no more weight and no more bulk than a conventional gun, AND make it as reliable as a conventional gun - then you'd have something worth marketting.
Riversong HouseWright
Design * * Build * * Renovate * * ConsultSolar & Super-Insulated Healthy Homes
Love the idea. I would buy ten!
Please forgive a stupid question, and one posed by someone not actually making money in the field, but...
I have to question the idea of carrying around the extra weight of a magazine, tip, assorted things like pivoting bolts - etc., plus the weight of an extra stick of nails.
I question this because I don't know, and I guess everyone else here could answer it for me. My own experience with laptop computers is that weight buys features, at the expense of portability. A lighter tool is always with you, because you don't mind carrying it with you. For me, that fine line resides at 5lbs. Heavier than that, and the tool is more likely to be left behind.
Think of this - ever been to a JLC Live convention? That is a small show for me, I work many that could fit 8 JLC lives side by side simultaniously... and I have to walk through all of that with my laptop under my arm. Weight has an exponential quality.
So the question I pose, based on my experience with tools I use on my jobsite is this: Are you better off with a single tool that weighs 6lbs in your hand all day, or are you better off with two tools that your trade off with that only weigh 4 lbs. each?
I do have to say - COOL TOOL! I love the concept. I'm personally not sure it actually makes sense though.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Are you better off with a single tool that weighs 6lbs in your hand all day, or are you better off with two tools that your trade off with that only weigh 4 lbs. each?
So now you are carrying around two four pound guns instead of a single six pounder?
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
No, the point is you are never have BOTH guns in your hand at the same time... if you do, I'd like to see that vid on YouTube ;)
My point is similar to Riversong - would you rather hold a 6lb tool over your head all day or would you rather hold a 4lb tool over your head all day - periodicly switching one 4lb tool with another.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
My point is similar to Riversong - would you rather hold a 6lb tool over your head all day or would you rather hold a 4lb tool over your head all day - periodicly switching one 4lb tool with another.
I have already attested to the fact that I do not carry around two guns. Even more inconvenient than having to swap out nails in one gun, is having to switch off from gun to gun....dragging the both of them and their respective hoses...from spot to spot.
I will gladly incur the extra two pounds....that is aprox. how much we're talking here, not ten or twenty, correct?....so that I will not have to constantly stop and swap nails.
That, and the fact that I can't remember EVER having to hold a tool of any weight over my head all day. As mentioned....proper staging is key to working productively.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
If the gun manufacturers don't want it, start selling some 15/18 retrofit kits for Hitachi and Senco guns. If they sell, you'll get some manufacturer interest.
Best of luck
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Thank you again to everyone for his or her input. In response to the three main comments...
1) Too Heavy: Most of the weight of a nail gun lies in the piston, handle, and switch. In my opinion adding an extra strip of nails, a rotating mechanism, and a magazine out weighs the constant switching of nail sizes the traditional way. [Sorry about the pun.] Whether changing hoses, or nail sizes in the same gun takes a lot of time. You are trading weight for time, efficiency, less bending, less stopping, and less wasted moves. All this adds up to more money. Again this is in the first stages of production, I realize the gun needs to be refined. Have you ever seen the first chainsaw, first circular saw, or the first electric drill? Where would we be if those inventors said it’s to heavy and just stopped?
2) Cordless: I would love to see this gun manufactured in a cordless style. There are two types that I know of: The battery only one and the battery/compressed gas one. Unfortunately these rights are protected under their patents. Only a company holding these patent rights can produce this concept. I would love to say I have those rights but I don’t.
3) Retro Fit: There is a lot more involved then just adding a rotating mechanism and an extra magazine. There are safety issues, perfect alignment as not to destroy the gun, alteration to the drive pin, and so on, that are all address in this prototype. Making a retrofit is not very simple or realistic. You wouldn’t be able to just add it to an existing gun. There are changes made to every part of the gun.
Most of the feedback that I am receiving are personal opinions on how you would like to see the gun improved. Thank you! This is what I need to make the next prototype. Finally, if you can find it in your heart to take the survey on my website it would be greatly appreciated.
Wonderful idea. I hope to see one in my collection.
Finally, if you can find it in your heart to take the survey on my website it would be greatly appreciated.
If you make the link to your website your tagline (done in your profile), folks can click on it in any of your posts and wouldn't need to scroll back through the thread to find it.
I will.....but most won't.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
you might want to head to an actual job site unannounced and have them try the gun and film a review from them.
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
Andy....damn good idea!
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
finally my thousands of hours watching tv have paid off ;)
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
Children say the darndest things. But in your case a smart one
Zeeya
Ps
how're the masks working and tree house renoView Image
both very good. only a claboard and trim to go on the tree house, and a second layer of ply on the inside to prevent impalement
hmmmm, your post perplexs me
This kid is scary good.....
........just think, we get to look back in ten years and say we were there at the very beginning..........lolNaive but refreshing !
There seems to be a lot of “concern†about the weight of the gun. There is a trade off here. How did you feel when the first hose less guns came out? There is certainly more weight involved. Having the freedom of being hose less was/is more important then the added weight. The same holds true here. You give little to get a lot. Saving time equals more $$$!
Thank you again to all showing interest, it is truly appreciated.
Michael AKA IBI
Bump
I'll probably never get it prototyped, but if anybody else were to build one, I'd buy it...
A nail gun that shoots nails at a 20 to 30 degree or so angle different from the main body of the gun. It would be an enginering feat, but my use for it would be to shoot in crown molding with the nails at top and bottom of the crown at opposing angles, which hold the crown sted fast to the sheet rock with out worrying with hitting studs. I can do this to a limited degree with any finish nailer or brad gun, but I'm aways trying to get that extra little bit of angle on the nail as the body of the gun bumps into the perpendicuar wall.
I am not sure that I understand what you are talking about. Please respond.
IBI (Michael)http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
sure... all the nail guns that I have ever seen shoot nails strait out in relation to the body of the gun. there are different angles to how the nail holders are fastened to the gun, but the nails always come strait out in relation to the body.
If it would be possible to deflect the nail out at a consistant angle, even as little as around 10 degrees, I would find this usefull when I hang crown.
When I hang crown now, I try to get the nails in the top and bottom of the crown to angle away from each other as much as possible, but I'm limited by the back of the nail gun hitting the wall perpendicular to the wall I'm shooting in... if I'm shooting the top of the crown into the ceiling, the back of the gun hits the wall and vice versa.
A lot of people shoot crown strait into the drywall (not using studs) with opposing left and right angles on the nails, what I heard refered to as snakebiting and creating a toggle bolt effect, and what I do is a variation of that, but uses half the nails and holds the crown up just as well... which is obvious if I try to pull a peice back down. It's my angles opposing each other, (though I'd like to be able to put them in even a little more steeply), that keeps them from pulling back out of the drywall.
Bump
I like it. I have had the same idea, but only as an idle thought. You have done something practical with it. In my mind the two magazines were side by side feeding into the same nose via a lateral shift. I'd buy one in a heartbeat, too.
Funny that the manufacturers cannot grasp that we buy all their different guns and then actually use them on a single job. They must be really divorced from end-users.
Bill
Nice idea. I don't doing a lot of framing but I think a 10d/8d common combo would interest framers shooting together kings and jacks,headers, and then toenailing.
If it makes you feel any better that you didn't do anything with it, I have most of my life's savings invested and no light at the end of tunnel. This is going on 4 years.http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
Keep hanging in there. I have several successful inventor friends, and the success takes time, capital, and loads of effort.Bill
looks good !!!-- how soon does it go into production ??
I am aggressively trying to get this into production but haven’t had much luck. I really need data to show the manufacturers. Which brings me back to... Would everyone please take the survey. I have had 287 hits on the site and only 2 people have taken the surveyhttp://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
Actually, I know I was giving you grief - or constructive criticism, however you took it - about the weight implecations.
However, as a DIY I realized I need a little more utility out of the cool tools I buy. The one thing I can count on is that I won't be doing the same task with the same tools over and over. My tools will be called on to do a wide variety of tasks.
I was thinking about weight again, and I realized for me it would not be as big an issue as for someone who might be hanging crown molding for weeks at a time.
I was thinking about the design too. Personally, I like the pivoting action. I don't think people are getting the fact that to have two side by side magazines mean there would be two tips side by side.
What I would like to see is a combo framing/strapping gun, with the strapping side able to take up to 2.5" 8D nails.
Or a dual strapper, with 3" 10D on one side and 1.5" shorties on the other.
I think the pivot could still work too with an angled magazine, as long as the angle was 45 degrees.Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
If your hair looks funny, it's because God likes to scratch his nuts. You nut, you.
Thank you for your response. Any input is useful. You are correct about the side by side; we abandon the idea for that very reason. Having two plungers next to each other is not user friendly.http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
I think a good compromise might be to have the whole nose and magazine assembly snap off, and a new one snap on- different length nails, or different gauge.
Could carry 2 or 3 in a pouch. Different colours to ease ID?
Hard to describe what I'm thinking, but I don't have a picture. I imagine sort of a hook/lug engagement on the top of the gun, two tabs to center things about on the gun body at just above trigger height, and a catch that engages with an adjustable bolt (to compensate for wear/poor tolerences) at the bottom of the grip.
Besides, I think it'd be cool to pop off a mag and pop a new one in place...Amateurs talk strategy, Generals talk logistics.
I agree with your thought and will give it consideration but it still takes away from swapping.
Thank you.http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
I took your survey, but you need to adjust your text fields in the form to handle more characters in the description boxes. Since I couldn't do that there, I'll leave my comments here.Yes, I'd buy one, and maybe two, depending on what size nails they can handle. In fact, I'd be more interested in having a gun that held two different lengths of the same gauge nail than one that held two different gauges. But if I could have a gun set with multiple sized framing nails and another with multiple trim nails, I'd be a happy camper.Hope that's helpful.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
Thank you for your interest. I will look in to the typing issue.http://www.multichambernailgun.com/b2/
Bump
just a comment regarding your video of the guy trimming the door. i dont believe i've ever seen anyone shoot just one nail then switch guns. i generally use the same gun on all pieces of trim on that side then switch.
Oh, I do it all the time....when casing a door or window with mitered corners, I'll tack the inside of the casing to the door jamb with a 1 1/2" nail , then a 2 1/2" nail or two through the outside edge into the stud....then switch back to the 1 1/2" nails to work my reveal down the jamb.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
Pp, Qq
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I liked the I dea as soon as I read about it. But when I saw the video I didn't like the bulky look of the gun. It looks too big. I imagined it might have some sort of side by side chamber. The swivel I guess is a more simple concept.
also wacthing that guy trim the mock up drove me nuts. I'd never trim like that, I do all nails one size then switch. I shoot the jambs first and leave shooting the outside perimeter for last.
Lately I've starting going with one size - 2" and as long as I'm carefull I don't get any blow outs when shooting the jamb.
If it was made more compact I'd be more interested. You sure a side by side chamber system won't work?
We have a side by side prototype that is functional, but the plungers of both chambers often need to be pushed down simultaneously although only the chamber over the piston will fire. additionally, it is difficult to get into corners as the second chamber is off to the side. DFI
Bump
I really like the idea. Being a framer though you'll have to make one for us. I'd love it so I can switch nail sizes
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