Replies

1. 
   IdahoDon | Feb 25, 2006 08:13pm | #1

   You didn't mention if you are a working carp and want a primer on finish work for a differenty type of job or if you're a DIY.  If you're already a carp then just get hired on with a finish carp and you'll get OJT that will cover anything you'll need, but the following is assuming you're a DIY.  There are surely course taught at local community colleges or as non-credit enrichment classes through various sources.

   Another route is to hire a finish carpenter to first show, say, how to hang and case a door, then you're on your own until you run into a problem and the finish carp comes back to evaluate what you've done and suggest ways to overcome the problem. An hour of carpenter time for each 10 hours the client has to work on the project is a good place to start.  For large amounts of repetitive work, say hanging doors in an entire house, less of my time is needed, and for multiple small projects, more time is appropriate.

   Not only will you have the experience of a working finish carpenter, but you'll see the tools we use and how much of a difference that makes in time and quality. 

   I've helped a number of DIY types this way and it works well since it's one-on-one and everything is directly applicable to your situation.   It really amazes me how fast a motivated DIY can pick up information and apply it with great results.  The quality of time spent away from one-on-one instruction really shows.

   The downside to hiring a finish carpenter for pointers, is that most do not have the interpersonal skills or desire to be good instructors.  It's not unlike finish carps that train less experienced carps in a job setting.  You'll want to find one who enjoys this type of work and if it's not working out try another until you find a guy you can get along with.

   If you have a community college close by, the instructors there would be a good place to start looking since many of them probably do side work and are used to teaching.  They will also probably have a number of people that they could recommend if they don't have the spare time.

   Of course, BT is an awfully useful resource as well if you are good at asking questions and sifting the good information from the bad.

   Cheers,

   Don

2. 
   mbdyer | Feb 25, 2006 09:59pm | #2

   Start by picking up every text on the subject you can find.  Jim Tolpin's is good as is most stuff from Taunton press.  Try getting onto a framing crew that also trims the exteriors.  Exterior trim is more forgiving so is a good place to work out the kinks.  If you want formal schooling, you could start with a community college (I went to Montgomery COmmunity College) and take art, math and dafting courses at night.  I found Art History and 2D Design helpful in developing a "eye" for what looks good plus learning the Orders of Architecture.  As  finish carp, I'm often called in to make some room like like some drawing, sometimes drawn on a scrap piece of paper.  You should know the priniciples of framing to understand and diagnose problems before you bugger expensive stock (and time).  Whackadoo (that's a technical term) door frames, windows chooched at different heights, cabinet walls wavier than the pool, etc.

   The Univ. of the Arts in Philly has a Furniture Degree but it may be overspecialized and expensive.  Depending on your age and income you can apply to the Williamson School.   Also try applying at E. Allen Reeves Builders in Abington.  They work all over and have a decent development program for motivated workers.  They contract us to do a lot of their finish work, in private schools on the Main line, churches, parochial schools, because they could use more good hands.  I may be cutting my own throat with that but everyone needs a job right? 

1. 
   kaczmap | Feb 26, 2006 12:18am | #3

   Hi,

   Thanks  for the replies.

   Actually I am a DIY who enjoys it and wants to do it fulltime when I retire in about 8 or 9 years (I'll be in my mid-50's) and have an addition I want to build next summer.    I am looking to pick up trim carp skills evenings and weekends and build my skill set.  I've taken some Carpentry courses at Delco CC in Media and hope to  take a homebuilding course this sumnmer at Heartwood in MA  this summer. 

   Delco CC has canceled alot of their evening carpentry courses, so I am looking for someone else in the Phila area or elsewhere in the summer.  Montco CC isn't offereing classes when I can take them.

   I'll check out the Toplin book this weekend.

    

   Anymore advice is sincerely appreciated.

    

   Thanks,

    

   Peter

1. 
   Gunner | Feb 26, 2006 12:38am | #4

   http://www.garymkatz.com/

   Buy everything that Gary sells. He knows what he's talking about. Also print this out and memorize it.

   http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00036.asp

   None of that is going to "Make" you a trim carpenter. But they are very good guides along the way.

    

    

   Ugha Chaka! Ugha Chaka! Ugha, Ugha, Ugha, Chaka!

2. 
   mbdyer | Feb 26, 2006 01:25am | #5

   Considering your situation (age and income requirements) you should sell yourself to those you know, family, coworkers etc.   Build up a photographic portfolio.   You may have to go on your own for a bit to earn your chops.  Then you can get picked up by a company or just continue on solo, whatever suits you.  Not all builders hire "by portfolio" but having something to show someone of your work helps in selling yourself which is what you'll have to do.  There is something to be said for appearances as well.  If you have a truck or van loaded with all of the tools, and your toolbelt isn't brandnew (an interesting jutxaposition) builders may give you a shot if you drive up to a jobsite.  Have business cards (decent looking ones) to give them, they might not be able to take you on at the moment but perhaps on their next project?  If you look the part a builder will give you a second look.  Appear workmanly but not shabby or right of the shelf.  Be confident.  Don't be afraid of new challenges but do any and all research and practice you can.  Chop a bunch of miters and make frames, practice the stuff those who've been in the trade do without thinking.  A furniture making mentor of mine had me take a stack of a hundred or so 6" 1x6's and join them into dovetailed pairs.  By the end of the stack they actually started looking good despite being pine! I've found trigonometry to be helpful, more than just A squared plus B squared equal C squared.  Knowing how to use the formulae of circles and ellipses, complementary angles and such will serve you well.  Go to the local lumberyard, buy twenty feet or so of crown mold, chop it into foot long sections, compound miter the ends of each piece and then cut cope joints with your jigsaw.  Master that and you'll be in good shape.

3. 
   sledgehammer | Feb 26, 2006 01:54am | #6

   Since your summers are free, look into part time work at local custom cabinet shops.

   Most small shops are looking for someone that wants to learn and doesn't come at the cost of benies. They are usually looking for summer workers to fill in for vacationers. If you can build and install custom cabinets, trim work is a breeze.

   It worked for me, the only downside is field trained trimmers scare me.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/25/2006 5:56 pm ET by sledgehammer

1. 
   philarenewal | Feb 26, 2006 06:26am | #7

   I second that as for working in a cab shop or any type of furniture making.  I've had a few truely great mentors, but in the end, making furniture for a short time was the greatest boost for my finish carpentry skills.  My dad was an exceptional finish carpenter, among other skills, but the one thing he had that I just couldn't learn was patience.  I finally got some/enough if it when forced to make furniture.  I even liked it for a while (much prefer buildings though).  The other side of the coin is efficiency, which comes with experience and watching others.  Quality first and efficiency second (you will pay dues with long hours and weekends to get the jobs done, but it will come).

4. 
   mike585 | Feb 26, 2006 07:46am | #8

   I'm actually interested in doing the same thing. Mid forties, plan on retiring in 9 years and I want to do trim and light framing. I've done, or am doing the following:

   1. Read everything you can. For me it's everything by Gary Katz, Mike Guertin, Rick Arnold, Larry Haun, Jim Tolpin, John Caroll, et al. Taunton and JLC are the best sources. It's worth it to have the books for reference as well.

   2. I trimmed my house and learned a lot in the process. I plan on looking for another house that need renovation to use that as a base for further experience.

   3. Keep reading the stuff here and over at Gary Katz's JLC forum.

   4. Stay in shape so that at 55 you can do this kind of work.

   "With every mistake we must surely be learning"
5. 
   Boblam | Feb 26, 2006 02:24pm | #9

   Great advice from all. You should also go to the Live shows that come around. Providence RI is the site of the next show.(JLC) Great demos on how to get things done.BTW, I took a cabinet making course at Heartwood a couple years ago. No regrets