Leveling toilet on ceramic tile floor
Lyptus
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
After I installed a ceramic tile floor in my bathroom I noticed that the tiles around the toilet flange are seated level (my bad). The toilet will not sit flush with the floor but rather wobbles about 1/16†right and left due to the floor problem. Are there any sorts of rubber or silicone pads that I can place on the base of the toilet to level it so that I can also caulk around the toilet base to form a waterproof seal? Other suggestions?
– Lyptus
Replies
Put masking tape around it.
Then pull it up, mix up the same grout you used with the tiles ( thickly, not runny) or some plaster or paris to seat it in, and reset the stool.
Clean up the ooze around it, sponge, and peel the tape again. Don't use it until it sets up good.
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That's an interesting idea. Speaking of which, my directions for installing the floor state to leave a gap between the tub and the floor for expansion. However, my gap is about 3/8" wide so I was wondering if I could grout it and then apply a thin caulk line between the tub and the grout. Would that work or is it better to just apply a really thick line of caulk between the tub and the tile to allow for movement. (Frankly, I don't see how a floor set in cement can expand?)- Lyptus
More likely to shrink than expand. If you maintain normal room temperature year round, should be no thermal movement. There is some vibration and deflection that can change a joint like that but minimallyI caulkseal, then set tile, grout, then caulk with colour matched grout. if relying on caulk only, I would not leave such a large gap. That calls for a backer rod which you do not want there at a wet location.
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also, tub it abutts can experience thermal movement.
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"(Frankly, I don't see how a floor set in cement can expand?)"
More likely, it the tub will expand when you fill it with hot water. If you can get a good grout line between the tile and tub with a space between it and the grout, caulk should be fine. I shoot for about 1/8", but that's set when the tile goes in. 3/8" is a tad heavy. ;-(
Be aware that there is a school of thought that you should never caulk, plaster, thinset or otherwise seal the toilet to the floor for two reasons: it makes it harder to remove for later repairs and, should a leak develop at the flange gasket, the water will leak into the framing instead of out onto the floor where you can see it and take appropriate action. You decide for yourself if you want to subscribe to that thinking. But if you do plaster, thinset, etc, it's a good idea to coat the underside of the toilet with wax, or a sheet of plastic wrap, so you don't glue the toilet down.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
The tub I purchased is made of polystyrene plastic and the outer wall is attached with liquid nails to a 2x4 screwed to the subfloor beneath the tub (as per the installation instructions). Given this, is it still likely that the tub will expand enough when filled to crack a grout line between the floor tile and tub? It sounds like the collective responses are warning me not to grout right up to the tub.- Lyptus
No glue or nail ever made will be strong enough to stop something from expanding/contracting whether it be from heat (like plastic or iron) or humidity (like wood). Plastic moves a lot with heat cycles.
I would be leary about grouting tight to the tub, but I've always filled the gap with silicone to allow for the movement without making a gutter to collect water. 3/8" is a bit much tho'. I'd rig up a 1/8" spacer next to the tub, grout, remove the spacer then caulk.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
What kind of spacer would you suggest and how should I keep the grout from adhering to it so I won't accidentally pull up the grout when I remove the spacer?
Seems that the original post had to do with a toilet then it morphed into dealing with the tub. Not sure what your typo referred to in the initial post. I've used plastic wedges on toilets and snugged down the bolts--never caulked them. Always have caulked tubs with silicone.
Steel tubs are formed so the exterior surface is different than the inside holding water--not much heat transfer.
Intrigued with the grout idea especially if it doesn't adhere to the toilet base.
I too use masking tape to protect surfaces--just remove it before everything dries (leaves a ridge otherwise).
Last shimmed toilet was done so HO could remove for snaking pipe. (no cleanout) After shimming I cut protruding portion with rock knife and she used one of those carpets that concealed the floor to base joint.
(No guys around to pee and miss standing up). Worked for her.
There are peel and stick clear flexible pads often used under glass covered tables, lamp bottoms, etc. if the gap is small to firm up any toilet wobble. (usually due to uneven ceramic tiles) TyrThings are not always what they seem; the first appearance deceives many; the intelligence of a few perceives what has been carefully hidden.... Roman Poet Phaedrus 15BC–50AD
I'd use something like flashing that you've sprayed with WD-40 or oil to keep the grout from sticking. Lay down a spacer of the appropriate thickness and put the flashing in front of it, between the spacer and the grout line. After the grout starts to set, pull the spacer from behind the flashing and the flashing should release pretty easily.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Be aware that there is a school of thought that you should never caulk, plaster, thinset or otherwise seal the toilet to the floor for two reasons: it makes it harder to remove for later repairs and, should a leak develop at the flange gasket, the water will leak into the framing instead of out onto the floor where you can see it
I guess I'm old school, but I tend to use plumber's putty. Although I have caulked once or twice. Either way, I leave about two fingers width in the back un-caulked/puttied so that if there is a flood it will leak out the back.jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
I'm with ya on leaving a space at the back, but will putty stop the rocking on an uneven floor?
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Probably depends on how uneven it is. Putty will only squish out so much, so if you put extra on the low side, you might be able to reduce the uneven spots.
jt8
"In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about life: It goes on."
-- Robert Frost
lyptus
I have used either plastic shims or rubber tile mounting wedges.
The mounting wedges are made of the same rubber tile spacers are made of.
Though I myself need more of them and am having a hard time finding them. Last batch I think i got at a tile center. but they have gone to a harder yellow plastic version.
Insert either then caulk around the base.
Wallylo
my plumber uses pennies for shims
"my plumber uses pennies for shims"
Heck, mine uses C Notes! ;-)
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Heck, mine uses C Notes! ;-)
That was good. (Even though I'm a plumber--or was, for 27 yrs till I became an inspector.)
Reminds me of a little quote from Mark Twain in "The McWilliamses and the Burglar Alarm": "When we were finishing our house, we found we had a little cash left over on account of the plumber not knowing it."
"Heck, mine uses C Notes! ;-)" and charges 30% overhead on that, but the labor to install them..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Hope he uses the new ones and doesn't charge the new price for old used ones
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Get some plastic shims.
Look in the plumbing department near the wax rings for them... or look near the doors and windows section.
exactly ... toilet shims.
either white or clear plastic.
plumbing supply ... home depot ... lowes ... decent hardware store.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Use plastic shims and a waxless ring so you can wiggle it up and down while you're shimming it. Test fit the shims, then cut them back under the edge so you can caulk across them. The caulk may help to stick the shims in place as well.
There are "plastic" shims available just for this purpose available at home depot in th plumbing section ... small package about 4 in a pack , the shims are about 2" by 2", if I remember correctly in a red back plastic "blister pack".
I've used them many times, when in place and level, silcone around the base of the toilet with a good quality mold resisitant silicone or latex. It will keep the shims in place
A bunch of plastic shims in the door aisle will do the same job for probably the same price and you will have a bunch left over for the next rocking toilet.Wallyo
I had the same situation (for the same reason - lol) with one of my toilets after I remodeled my guest bathroom ~10 years ago. I got a pack of white plastic (HDPE?) shims at my local ACE Hardware and used two of them to "firm up" the toilet.
I slipped them in place, tightened the bolts, marked the shims, loosened the bolts, then cut and reinstalled the shims. The stool has been rock solid ever since.
FWIW, I'm in the camp that doesn't caulk around toilets. If I have a bad seal, I want to know about it ASAP. - lol
This is what plumbers putty is for. First of all I am not a plumber, I have seen enough and done enough plumbing to venture an answer. Before the bowl is installed, turn upside down and install wax ring. Then roll plumbers putty in your hands like a rope. Lay the putty "rope" around the perimeter of the bowl. Push the edges of the rope down so it will stay when you turn the bowl rightside up.Usually about 3/8" to 1/2" diameter of putty will suffice.
Turn the bowl up and position over the bolts. Park your butt on the bowl .snug up the bolts and clean the excess putty from the perimeter of the bowl. The putty will harden and the bowl will not wobble again.
With a helper you can probably do this without completely removing the toilet. Remove the nuts, lift the bowl and place three blocks of wood about 1x1-1/2x3" under the bowl. The 1 -1/2" high is enough to lay the putty on the floor around the bowl.Then remove the blocks and reinstall supply line.
mike