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I have an enclosed garage that has a concrete floor that is graded pretty steep to a drain in the center of the floor. It is graded from all 4 walls. The height difference from the low spot to high is 4-5″. What would be the best way to overcome this grading problem so that I could nail
down some furring strips and 3/4 plywood?
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How about thicker furring at the deeper floor levels? I'd say leave a path for water to get to the drain, if needed, just in case... but I don't know if the drain should be made inoperative so as to remove a moisture source. Good luck.
*Use tapered sleepers.
*Hi Chris,You may want to consider leveling the concrete floor first with pea stone concrete. You have to let it dry properly before you install your finished flooring, but would be a permanent solution to your problem.As Ryan pointed out, you can also shape the sleepers to fit the slope in the floor. Mark your perimeter level with a long level or transit and a chalk line. Install a nailer around the entire perimeter. Mark two opposing sides every 12" and draw a line between them to use as a guide for each run of sleepers.Rip the 2x (in your case you may have to use 8" stock) to lay flat over the concrete and level with the line. (tapered)You can use lesser dimentioned wood by installing blocking underneath but will normally be more spongy in feel. It's always best to make full contact with the concrete.Use pressure treated lumber and put a plastic or felt paper underneath to prevent direct contact between the wood and concrete.You may also install SM insulation under your floor, at least for the first 2 feet along the outside walls of your garage.Gabe
*Chris,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*
Thanks for the responses guys. I have avoided the use of sleepers, since the floor slopes in two planes simultaneously. Anyway, here is the route i've decided to go: From the highest point, outline an area that is 2' lower ( I figure I shouldn't go any thinner than 2'). Enclose this area with wood forms and pour pea gravel concrete. After it sets up, remove the forms, and level the remaining perimeter area with cement. Once it is all sufficienty cured, put down plastic sheeting, and then nail 1x2 furring onto the concrete floor. Top with 3/4 t+g ply. Does this sound like a good solution?
*
Chris:
You might check with the radiant floor folks who do a pourable, self-leveling gypcrete mixture. It's not sturdy, though--must be covered with finish floor material.
*Wouldn't hurt, plintergrooper, if you kept your face out of giving advise that you don't understand. Go back to making wooden toys and leave the house building advise to pros. Gabe
*Chris,Are you trying to acheive matching existing finish floor height to your new finished garage? You lost me on the 2' deal (two feet or two inches?). Gabe gave excellent advise on how to provide a solid, and level flooring system to your situation. Your floor may slope in different planes, but your new floor framing will only be run in one direction. Best-J.R.
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J.R.: My Mistake- When I said 2', I meant to say 2". Basically, I am doing it that way, cause I figure I can't go much thinner than 2" with the pea gravel concrete. Actually, I could probably go as thin as 1' with the concrete. Then, switch to cement to finish the last areas that need just a little.
So in short, I am following Gabe's advice, with the addition of using cement instead of concrete for the outer areas that require being raised less than 1-2".
Also, your comment about the floor sloping in different planes, but floor framing running in 1 direction is a good point. It seemed a bit more complicated to me.
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Chris, Gabe:
Or you could do a web search on gypcrete. From among many, a website called heatthefloor.com states:
i Gyp-Crete®, Gyp-Crete 2000, Therma-Floor®, Dura-Cap®, Level-Right®, Level-Right® FS-10, and Level-Right Plus Floor Underlayments are smooth and dense enough to receive all types of glue-down finished floor materials.
Some can have finish floor applied as soon as they have hardened. Also provides the option of a radiant floor. Less headroom loss. A whole bunch easier than troweling 'crete to level or cutting sleepers and punching holes in a cured slab. I'd bet this stuff'd do a pretty good job of filling your drain, too!
Whatever, be sure to do a taped-down plastic square before installing finish flooring to be sure no moisture lingering.
Gotta go make Gabe some spell-checked building blocks--bye!
*Chris,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Spinstergrooper, you still haven't put up so shut up. You don't know squat about construction so cut the bullshit. The cost of having a contractor come in and install gypcrete is much higher than any homeowner installing pea stone on his or her own. But of course, you wouldn't know that from reading magazines.Gabe
*Chris, Joe brings up a valuable point that I forgot. Are you sure that if you were to put this house back on the market, being able to convert back to a garage might not be a plus?You may want to consider extending or at least protecting the existing drain.Gabe
*Gabe,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*
I really don't have too much concern for the floor drain, as the grading in the adjacent alley has changed, so that there is little risk of water getting in. The big reason for the drain was to
prevent puddling during the winter from melted snow on cars, since the garage is heated. In fact, I'm thinking strongly of filling in the drain, since the trap water will evaporate every few mos. if left unattended.
As far as the gypcrete, I considered that as well, but $$ is a concern, and the concrete/cement method seems easy enough.
Thanks everyone,
Chris
*
Hi Joe,
I've got you now. Had my focus out of focus.
Hope you and your growing family are doing well.
Gabe
*Gabe,
View Image © 1999-2000
*i the concrete/cement method seems easy enough. Not to discourage you at all, Chris, but fore-warned is fore-armed:The gypcrete is a significant cost, but be prepared: pouring and finishing a slab is a big job requiring calling in friends, one of whom should own a power trowel. Mistakes are often spectacular. I'm hard-core DIY, yet i only help my concrete guy when he pours/finishes for me, and he probably thinks the best part is when i leave to bring back lunch. If you have a concrete apron, it wasn't meant to hold up a loaded cement truck--should you factor in the cost of a conveyor or lots o' wheelbarrows? You'll need to order the proper yardage (is 4-5" an estimate or a measurement?) and if you're long, you still pay for it ($65/yd. here), but if you're short and if they can get another truck to you as a rush job, you'll really pay for it! I'm waxing nostalgic here...Not sure why you would need to do two pours or what you mean by calling one "cement" and one "concrete"; i've always heard the wet stuff, or the binder itself, called "cement" and the hard stuff "concrete"...but i don't get out much. Would love a civil explanation from anyone, though!
*I think we would all agree that a power trowel will not be necessary for a slab that's going have sleepers fastened to it and covered up. Nor does it seem likely that he would need a conveyor.
*Splintergrooper, leave it alone. You're a fool, armed with a DIY magazine and no experience. You were exposed a long time ago as a fake. Now take a hike.Gabe
*(Sorry, can't seem to get the hang of posting today)
*Okay,You're entitled to your opinion, but spurious arguments about the complexity of pouring concrete vs. gypcrete just muddy the issue. If he chooses the option of pouring concrete, he would not need to use a power trowel. In addition, the fact that it is a garage we are speaking of implies that vehicles have access to it. If it was necessary, a front-discharge truck could easily chute the concrete in from a ways away, without the "risk" of cracking the concrete apron. Whether or not he "needs" a wood floor on top a concrete one is his decision, even if it is to "purty it up".I am happy to let you have the last word, should you feel it necessary. Chris has no doubt taken the excellent advice some have given and come up with his own plan. I, for one, will retire to posting on subjects that I consider myself to have something useful to say.
*Thanks, Nick, you reminded me of another question: why have a wood floor on top of a concrete one, unless to purty it up, which seems doubtful with 3/4" T&G. Chris said he wants to save $$: a clean, level slab could obviate the sleepers and decking, saving money, time, forests; concrete floors can be just stunning all by themselves. So many great options to choose from and he can always change his mind later when he wins the powerball! The likelihood of efficiently utilizing a conveyor has to do with Chris's particular access, which only he knows. Could be old joints talking, but i would personally gladly pay for a conveyor truck as opposed to cracking an apron, ditching the lawn, dismantling the bougainvillea, or paying a chiro. Have only used one once, but it was invaluable.
*i I am happy to let you have the last wordWell, if you're happy now, will you take this blasted hot cappuccino off my hands i got for you?! And explain the concrete/cement thing to me?! Like your "muddy the issue"--cute :)))
*splintergroupie,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Thanks, Joe, it confirms what my friend Webster, a definitions expert, told me in strict confidence :)))Still clear as mud about Chris's post 6.1 where he distinguishes between the two for what sounds like separate pours--help! Chris?
*Splinter,To reiterate what Joe F. explained quite well; Portland cement is an ingredient in concrete. Concrete is the conglomeration of all ingredients, whether wet or dry. Conglomeration is just too hard to say ;-) I think by saying cement, Chris was refering (incorrectly) to a topping mix of sand and cement only, (no large or small aggregate).Hope This Helps,Jerry
*Actually, i had the "cement/concrete" thing (post 11.1), but now i get "topping" too-thanks.So, then, i think i've got it: forming, pouring, stripping, forming, pouring, stripping, nailing sleepers, and installing T & G to the tune of at least $900 (using my local prices, conservatively), and at least three days labor, with a relatively high error factor for a first-timer, to achieve an as-yet-unfinished floor.What the heck--it's not my money!Gabbee, you kept raising your hand--did you find the loo yet? I believe it's the third tree to the right...or is it left? Not that it matters; they're unisex--you'll find them quite comfortable. It's those lovely, lightly-frosted Italian prunes, isn't it? Well, maybe you should quit while you're a-head.
*Well Spinster, it looks like you've got your diaper around your ankles again.I'll keep it simple, just for you.The original post requested advice from people in the know, so that left you out and that got your shorts in a knot.He wanted to start off on a level floor. That's his decision, not yours.How to level...the fastest and cheapest way for someone doing it on their own... that would be to install a concrete topping. Much cheaper than contracting out gypcrete etc. If he wants to use sleepers, again that's a personal decision ( some people like the soft feel of wood construction, go figure) the finish doesn't have to be perfect. (again a plus)Finally, surely, there must be a discussion board, (somewhere else) where the main topic is building trinkets out of wood, or have you worn out your welcome there, as well? Or better yet a discussion board on proper grammar.Regardless, you're an idiot, so take a hike.Gabe
*Because i'm rested up and feeling generous:There was an old carp from OttawaMade a career of starting fatwah... Meeting wide splintergroupie,He panicked, made poopie,Landed *splat* in his own patois.Gabe, i'm gonna start charging you rent if you don't get your own metaphor and return the pants/ankles thing to its rightful owner! If you ever had an original thought in your head, it would go nuts from solitary confinement.Wherz Paddy? i need a moving target...i'd settle for a pulse...
*Spinster, you can have the last word, your post is too stupid to respond to and isn't construction related.Gabe
*Good. I warned you about payback if you tried messing up some unsuspecting homeowner's thread with your single-minded yet badly-executed hatred. To the Tavern!! I'll spot you a thesaurus (big honking dino) and type left-handed.
*
Guys, thanks for all the informative, and entertaining posts. Just to settle a couple questions:
1. I measured the area, and will need relatively little concrete:just under a yard. So all the complications of a conveyer etc. are unneccessary. I'll probably just buy a whole bunch of Sakrete bags, and rent a mixer.
2. My reference to concrete and cement is a bit misleading, and probably wrong: When I think cement, I am thinking concrete without the stone, or correctly identified as sand mix.
3. I am going to put some furring strips down so that I can have a little seperation between the concrete, and floor sheething. Just a little extra measure if water ever did collect, and it also will help reduce temperature conductivity.
That should do it. Thanks again for all the good advice.
Chris
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Chris,
I know you're trying to gracefully end this "informative, and entertaining" thread but maybe I can have the last word ;-)
Before you go and rent a mixer and buy the necessary ingredients, price a ready-mix yard delivered. Even with the upcharge for a short load, I can have one yard delivered for less than I could mix it myself (and a lot less work).
Good Luck,
Jerry
*Right, Jerry. I can get one-yard delivery for about $125 on short notice. Sure beats getting a mixer, fooling around trying to save a few bucks. If they have a nearby pour, sometimes the bill is less.MD
*Chris, also consider U-cart concrete if you have one in your area and a vehicle to tow with. You can tow home a yard of concrete for ~85$. Dump it into a wheelbarrow, pour and finish at your own pace.Avoid renting a mixer at any cost.Good luck
*Or you can call the company and see if they have another pour in the area that takes less than a full truck and they'll probably not charge you then for a short load.Wow, i thought it was bad when cement went UP to $65/yard here...
*DF you're talking to yourself again.Gabe
*Its ~85$ a yard for U-cart, I pay ~55$/yard for delivered...
*You mean NOBODYis listening?Hehehe...yer making this too easy... ; )
*Jim,Don't tell me you pay $55 for one yard delivered. That's cheap.Jerry
*Jerry, no thats for 5+ yards delivered...
*ChrisYou may want to double check your figures again."The height difference from the low spot to high is 4-5".""I measured the area, and will need relatively little concrete:just under a yard."At an average pour of 3", a yard of concrete will only cover 108sf. Either you have a mighty small garage or I missed something somewhere.Vince
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I have an enclosed garage that has a concrete floor that is graded pretty steep to a drain in the center of the floor. It is graded from all 4 walls. The height difference from the low spot to high is 4-5". What would be the best way to overcome this grading problem so that I could nail
down some furring strips and 3/4 plywood?