A while back there was a small article in FHB about this product. Can’t seem to find the article or the product. Any input would be appreciated. NOT looking for the trowelable product. We have several floors in an old farmhouse that need leveling prior to tile or hardwood floor installation. Thanks in aedvance for the input.
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Try this:
http://www.quikrete.com/catalog/Self-LevelingFloorResurfacer.html
in my experience, the instructions on the packet seem to make out that you can just pour it on and the whole floor will level itself.
believe me it doesn't work like that!!!!
i found out the hard way.
also it doesn't generally stick to paint on floors and its best to coat the floor with pva to stop it drying out before it sets.
really good stuff though , i've always found the technical people at the manufacurers of these sorts of things very helpful
aleks
Foxrun, I just used a self leveler from Mapei called Novaplan. Works well but expensive if your doing a large area. The stuff sets up quickly so you need to have a paddle mixer and a few 5 gallon buckets of the stuff going at a time. Get some help this stuff can get away from you in a hurry. If it's a small area shouldn't be a problem. Check out their web site, Mapei.com for product info. -Ed
Custom's LevelQuick is what I use for tile. Self Leveling Compound is two lies in one. It is not self anything. You will need a helper or two, because it sets up in about 5 minutes, and you can only mix 5 gal at a time, so if you are doing more than 100 square feet, I would have some extra drills, buckets and helpers. You need to put it down all at once. Absolutely no cold joints.
It will also not be perfectly level. Depending on liquid the stuff is, you may have some slight bumps and dips. Smooth it around with a squeegie and leave it alone. Resist the temptation to move it around with a trowel.
Third, use the primer. It is extra, but buy it
Fourth, tack down some builders felt or 6 mil poly to the floor, or seal the floor in some way. I remember once I was doing an upstairs floor and didn't do that. The SLC was going down just fine, but I was mixing up a couple of extra buckets, and for the life of me, couldn't figure out if I had estimated too low. I was scratching my head when I heard the homeowner scream, and a light fixture sparkle and short out. It seems that a couple gals of the stuff got through a crack in the floor, into the joist cavity, and in an electrical box.
The clean up and remediation cost me more than the tile job was worth.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Boris, you are right on the money with that response. For a large area a helper or 2 is a must. Fortunately the stuff I had started to set up in about 15-20 minutes. You have to keep pouring one bucket after the other. I did 170 sq. ft. and will never do that again! -Ed
I too have used the levelquick over both concrete and plywood subfloors. Over plywood you need to apply lathe over a primed subfloor. If you mix it liquid enough it will flow over a small area. Again, larger areas its best to have someone mixing and someone pouring. Generally, I haven't had to do to much in the way of troweling. I have found it difficult to feather the edges to a smooth edge. I have used floor patch to accomplish this. Its important to take the time to outline the area that need to be leveled and to close off any openings (I use floor patch to seal any seems between sheets of plywood, any holes, and make some kind of border/block to prevent the liquid from going into floor vents.
I recently went to a product demonstration by the tile products company TEC. The rep demonstrated a pourable, self leveling compound for underneath tile. It worked great. He mixed it up, poured it out on an uneven demonstration floor, and it did level itself, nice and smooth. It's good between something over an inch (I don't remember exactly) and the edge can be feathered with a trowel out to nothing. It can be placed on itself if more than an inch is needed.
Some of the points he made were
The stuff is trash! A marketer's dream, a craftsman's NIGHTMARE. Whatever you do don't invest any hopes or money in these worthless products!
You can''''''t nail thru this stuff so unless the wood floor is glue down it would be hard to use .I have put wood stops around the outside edges of walls to give the carpet guys a place to nail down their tack strips and I use caulk to fill any seams or escape routes before i pour it. It will pour level if you make it liquid enough and I have trowelled it but you only have aminute or two. Don't slash or or splatter or you'll have little pebbles everywhere and make sure to thoroughly clean your mixing bucket before your second batch or you'll have rocks in your mix. Definately get a good drill mixer because mixing by hand is just not quite fast enough before disaster.
ANDYSZ2
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
When the stuff from TEC was demonstrated, the rep did not rush it. He mixed it at a normal work pace, did not hurry to pour it, and was able to take a few minutes to explain it without breaking a sweat. The working time can be extended by using cold (i.e. chilled) water. So I think it's something I could work with.
I think any leveler would be trouble under a wood floor because it would give off moisture for weeks, or longer.
Man when that stuff hardens I cant imagine any water vapor whatsoever when I see it 2 hours later it looks totally dried out. The leveler I'm talking about is 30 bucks a bag and I think its called level quick or something like that.
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
If the consensus is that self-levelers don't work, what then is the preferred method? Thinset with a screed and trowel? I'm coming up on a 220 sf basement room with a high ridge down the middle that needs leveling. Sleepers and ply would eat too much headroom. What does everyone else do?
Be seeing you...
Personally (after using several hundred dollars of the &#+* self leveling stuff) I used thinset a trowel and a long screed to "fair" the surface. You can also use plasterers techniques such as putting down dots of thinset and then flattening them with a long level or laying down a strip of thinset at the low edges that (after setting hard) will act as a guide for a screed. It sounds like work but you will save a LOT of time and money by NOT using the "self"-leveling junk.
I don't think the consensus is that self levelers don't work. What I get from reading the messages is that Clay is a person of little patience, who probably doesn't take the time to select the right material for the application, nor read or follow the directions on the bag.
the best way i found is to run several level lines down the floor about5' apart and then the next day screed down inbetween them
aleks
Thanks for the replies. Due to lack of assist labor, I'll probably go with thinset. Is there any particular slab prep needed to adhere the thinset, and do you think I can feather it out to zilch at the high spot?Be seeing you...
Noby mentioned the tried and treue method of leveling - sleepers and new floor over! Actually was the cheapest for me as the sleepers and plywood were free.
Self Levelers just work fine. Just read and follow the instructions. You can not use nailable wood floors on top, and must therefore glue the floor. It is fine for tiling, but for large areas for tile, I might want to use a membrane, Ditra and/or expansion joints.
Do not, repeat do not, use thinset to level any floor. It has almost no sand, and is not very strong from a structural standpoint. One exception is that when I am tiling and run across a low spot of a sixteenth or eigth, I just dab a bit extra thinset over the dip. At TCA headquarters, they have some floors where they put down lathe and used only thinset to float a thin bed and then tiled across it after drying. The stuff crumbled and it worthless.
If you don't have the elevation to use sleepers, then pull up the subfloor, and re-apply some new ply with shims. I like to use inch and an eighth t&g.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Of course boris is correct in that thinset is only good for leveling when the thickness involved is appropriate. For places that require thicker adjustments thickset or another grout mix that IS appropriate for the needed thickness is advisable. My point is that I can level a floor in a fraction of the time that I would otherwise invest (if using a "self"- leveler) by using cheaper grout products and I do achieve a MUCH superior leveling effect as well. To me that indicates that I would be quite foolish to use the self leveling products. I do think that in very small areas they might work reasonably (but so will troweled grout). I really cannot imagine a scenario where I would ever consider using these products again. For those of you that think otherwise I am glad to let YOU have the total available supply and I wish you lots of luck. I must say here that I (like Boris) am also a fan of Ditra. I have never had a problem wherever I have used it and I have used it in the applications where trouble would have been most likely. Floors that have some cracks and those where the new floor goes over different pours or even over both wood and cement subfloors are some of the places where I have used Ditra with complete success.
Thinset can be feathered to a pretty fine edge. It also has very adhesive properties so you won't normally need a primer or adhesive coat for thinset. If you have areas that will need more than about 1/2" of adjustment you should use Thickset or another mix that has more sand content for the thicker spots. Do make sure that your slab is quite clean before applying the thinset. If you use a regular grout mix for thicker areas it would be wise to apply a rewettable glue first because (unlike Thinset and Thickset) it does not contain strong adhesives within itself.
My garage/workshop is 18' x 18'; from 0 to 4' in the front the floor is on pier and beam and rises 1/2"; from the 4' mark to the door at 18' it's a slab and drops 7/8". I want to level the hump and put down a wood floor suitable to the shop and strong enough to park my wife's car.
I've heard so many discussions pro and con on the liquids. I'll be gluing down the wood. It needs to be level enough to allow me to roll shop carts and a tall bandsaw that wants to commit suicide on that hump. So what's strong enough?
I'm making the flooring from end cuts, so I could glue them up into boards or tiles that I can resaw with the appropriate taper. Sounds a little desparate, but I already see that as my next state of mind if I don't figure this out pretty soon.
So, fire away!