I suppose if I have to ask this question, I shouldn’t be messing with it, but how do you determine if an interior wall is load bearing? I have one particular wall in my living room I would like to partially remove. I looked in the attic and have yet to find any evidence of this wall showing any load bearing properties, but I am still hesitant to mess with it. A little history, I am a woodworker and have had some, but very little framing experience. Any thoughts?
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If this is the top floor, and the attic is framed with trusses, then absent any wierdities none of the interior walls are load-bearing.
If the roof is conventional stick framing then usually the central wall, under the peak, is nominally load-bearing, but none of the others are.
If the roof is not "simple" (eg, has dormers or runs in two directions and meets in a valley) then there may be load-bearing walls in the vicinity of these features.
If there is a floor above this floor then things get trickier.
Look in the crawlspace or basement UNDER the wall. If it's a bearing wall, there should be a beam or some other form of support beneath it.
Also - How old is the house? Is the roof stick framed or does it have trusses?
Most houses with roof trusses don't have interior bearing walls. Stick framed houses often have a center bearing wall. But walls perpendicular to the outside walls generally aren't load bearing.
If you have any doubt at all, get someone to come out and look at it.
Walls don't hang from above in order to distribute their loads. They're supported underneath. Go to the basement and see where the beam(s) are. Figure out which walls are supported by this and go up from there.
Is this a one story or more? Can you give a bit more detail about the way the house was built?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Edited 2/18/2005 11:43 am ET by highfigh
There are several signs that you might be dealing with a load bearing wall:
- as said above, look in basement or attic to see if the joist ends are resting on the top plate of the wall
- look at the roof of the house, floor joists generally fun perpendicular to the ridge on gable roofs (ie, ranch houses, capes, colonials). watch out for hip roofs though, because they can have joists running in either direction.
- an electronic studfinder is also a good way to find which way the joists are running (as long as the ceiling wasn't furred with perpindicular strips of course).
-if all else fails, call an expert to take a look or simply go to the town hall and get a copy of your house plans (town hall? or maybe building department, not sure?)
Justin Fink
FHB Editorial
I really appreciate all of the responses in reference my question. The only downside to the responses is that now I know I shouldn't be messing with the wall. As far as more info, the house is single story, built in 1978, and here is my real problem, I want to say "no trusses," but I might be lying. It certainly doesn't look like it and in fact, it looks like the last resident may have thought a little more support was needed due to there being 2x's in places I have never seen 2x's before. i.e., some, "I dont know if this will help, but surely it couldn't hurt" afterthoughts going on in my attic.
Some of the oddly placed 2x4's could have been temporary supports or braces during construction.
If the roof is trusses, there's an almost certain chance that the joints will be fastened with metal nail plates.
now I know I shouldn't be messing with the wall. Not true. As long as you do a good job of evaluating the construction, taking out an interior wall and going through all the sheetrock and finish work would be a good job to do yourself. Just be sure you don't overlook something.
Any chances yoiu could post a picture of your attic, and m,aybe the wall you want to remove?
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
"If the roof is trusses, there's an almost certain chance that the joints will be fastened with metal nail plates."In 78 where there a lot of site built trusses that would have used plywood plates?
You didn't say what the desired opening size is for the wall. Are the 2"x4"s in teh attic attached diagonally from the joists to the rafters, at regular intervals or on every one? These would be trusses. If the wall in question is on the top floor of the house, its load will come from above- ceiling joists, drywall/plaster and insulation pretty much sums it up, unless there's storage above this area. The roof load is supported by the outside walls unless the roof is irregular and has obvious interior support members. If the attic is not directly above this ceiling, the new beam will need more height in cross section. in 2001, I removed part of a wall in the upper floor of my house. Hip roof, built in 1946, rock lathe/plaster and it's in line with the first floor load bearing wall. After talking to a couple of friends who are either architects in firms with structural engineers(these guys are not hacks) and the local inspector, it was decided that, to carry the load, a doubled 2"x6" LVL with 1/8" steel plate in the middle will work. I through bolted this together and made sure it was crowned correctly. This spans about 13'-6" and when I was in the attic after installing it, I jumped on the decking over the new beam and it didn't even bounce(I had someone with a tape measure underneath checking this). When I removed the wall, I left the top plate attached and removed the studs. Four years later, there are absolutely no cracks in the walls, ceiling or corners and I have been in the attic quite a bit since then. As long as the new beam will carry the load, the next thing to get right is the means to transmit the load successfully to the foundation. It can be done.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Gee, it's been a while since we've seen this question. It used to come up often enough that I wrote a FAQ about it. Here it is:
How to identify bearing walls:
When somebody asks how to identify load bearing walls, it's usually
because they're thinking of removing a wall or cutting a big hole in
one. That can be serious business, not something that can be designed
adequately by using a FAQ from the internet. The following discussion
may be useful for the preliminary speculation phase of such a project,
but don't rely on it for anything more.
Removing a load bearing wall is not impossible, but it is more
expensive. Often much more expensive. It will require some sort of
substitute support for the weight it carried, usually a beam. Often
this beam will have to be large enough that it extends downward from
the ceiling fairly far. On a top floor, you may be able to hide it in
the attic, and hang the ceiling joists from the side of it, or even
from the bottom. But often the ugly beam sticking down, which always
looks like you took out a wall, defeats the architectural purpose of
removing the wall in the first place.
You'll also have to provide adequate support under the ends of the
beam, because the load that was formerly distributed along the length
of the wall is now concentrated there. This load has to be supported
all the way down to the ground.
The official code definition of a bearing wall is any wall that
supports 100 pounds or more per foot of length, and any masonry wall
that supports any additional masonry above its ceiling level. That's
not particularly practical or helpful, since there's no instrument to
measure the weight on the top plate of a wall.
In general, you have to look at what the wall supports, and what
supports it. Walls that are parallel to the joists above are usually
but not always non-bearing. On my top floor, I have a wall parallel
to the joists that supports the rafter tails of a decorative roof
section. On the top floor, always look in the attic to see if the
wall in question carries any roof load. Then look to see if it
supports ceiling joists. If the joist tails rest on a wall, it's
almost always bearing. I have one exception to that upstairs, where
the ceiling joist tails rest on a non-bearing 2x3 wall that was the
partition between two closets, each 10 feet by 27 inches. On each
side, the real bearing walls are only 27 inches from this partition
wall. They form the sides of the stairwell.
Taking that idea a bit farther, you may want to analyse the whole
house, figuring out from the top down how the weight of all the
materials and contents are supported all the way down to the ground.
That's the way engineers design structures, from the top down. They
have to do it that way, because they can't design any part of the
structure until they know the weight of the stuff it supports.
In the past, building codes used to allow 2x3's for non-bearing walls.
Now 2x4's are the minimum for all walls. I know that was changed
prior to 1971, but I'm not sure how far prior. It's possible that
you'll find a load bearing 2x3 wall if bootleg remodeling removed a
nearby bearing wall.
For ground floor walls, look in the crawl space or basement. A
bearing wall perpendicular to the joists should be no more than one
joist depth away from some sort of support -- a girder or cripple
wall. That's a code requirement for all walls, not just on the ground
floor. So, if your joists are 2x10's (actually 9 1/4"), and a wall is
10 inches away from the nearest support, it's probably not supposed to
be bearing. The exceptions are if the original design was done by an
engineer, or the building is old enough to pre-date that code.
In old houses, bearing walls parallel to the joists below may have no
extra support. In newer construction, they'll usually have a joist or
two under them. The best practice is two joists with space between
them for utilities to run into the wall without hacking up the
structure. As always, beware of bootleg jobs that may have
transferred loads to walls that legally shouldn't carry them.
The tough part comes when you have three or more stories, and you want
to work on the in-between floors. First, you should start from the
attic and work down, because any bearing wall up there has to be
supported by bearing walls all the way down. Then look in the crawl
or basement, and work your way up. As with the crawl space, the max
is one joist depth away from floor to floor, unless it's an engineered
design or an old building. Next you may need to do some exploratory
demolition of the ceiling to see what's on top of the wall in
question. Again you're looking for joist tails, this time floor joist
tails.
Finally, even if a wall appears to be non-bearing, if it's
perpendicular to the joists above, you have to determine the size of
those joists and the new distance they'll span if the wall is removed.
If there are no walls or roof load supported by those joists, you can
look in the span tables to see if the result will pass code. If they
support other parts of the structure, engineering calculations are
necessary.
Most people at this point should hire a structural engineer. If you
don't want to hire an engineer, get some engineering books from the
library. Unless you have a very strong technical and math background,
that kind of light reading will probably convince you to pay somebody
who already knows this stuff. Even if you have the ability to learn
enough for a simple job, an experienced engineer's second opinion may
well provide you with a more cost-effective solution and save you more
than the engineer's fee.
Most jurisdictions will require a licensed engineer's wet stamp on plans
before they issue a permit for structural work. So even if you could
learn enough to do it yourself, your local building department may not
accept it because they don't have the resources to check your work.
What you may be able to do for yourself is measure and draw. If you
can make good accurate measurements and drawings of what you have and
how you want to change it, you may find an engineer who will do your
job from your drawings, without the expense of a site visit. Some will
even do simple jobs via fax.
A general contractor or rough carpenter might also be able to give you
an expert opinion on whether a wall is bearing or not. Please don't ask
for a "free estimate" if you don't intend to hire someone for the job.
The fair thing to do is pay them their hourly rate. That might be about
half what an engineer would charge for a site visit.
Also, non-bearing is merely a legal term used in codes. It doesn't
mean that the wall in question has no structural role. Gravity
doesn't care whether we call a wall bearing or not. After it's gone,
the floor above may be less solid feeling, even though it still passes
code.
(Bearing Wall FAQ revised March 12, 2003)
-- J.S.
I question your statement that all walls must be 2 X 4 minimum. The 2000 IRC states (R602.5) "Interior nonbearing walls shall be permitted to be constructed with 2 X 3's" And 24 inches O.C., no less !!
Thanks, I'll update the FAQ.
-- J.S.