Looking for a picture, timberframe joint
Tried a search and can’t find it. Thought it mignt be Frenchy who posted a picture of a joint used to make a longer beam, anyone who can help, I’d appreciate it.
Tried a search and can’t find it. Thought it mignt be Frenchy who posted a picture of a joint used to make a longer beam, anyone who can help, I’d appreciate it.
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Replies
Hey Frenchy!
PING!!!!!
Good luck trying to get frenchy to post a picture.
dockelly
I believe you are looking for a scarf joint
Edited 1/4/2007 11:17 pm by BarryE
I think your right, that rings a bell. Maybe I'll just search the internet given that info.
Thanks
http://www.arlingtontimberframes.com/scarfjoint.htmThats not it, looked almost like it would move like a hinge if it weren't for the bottom half preventing that. Saw a picture of it here.
As others have mentioned, a scarf joint.
I've done one this way (see attachment), copied it from something I saw on TOH.
You must be kidding about Frenchy right! Of all the guys that you could mention Frenchy's the one guy that has never posted a picture!
Doug
Yeah I know, someone did that joint and took a picture. Just gotta figure out who, Andybuildz?
Edited 1/4/2007 11:47 pm ET by dockelly
DOUGU
one comment to clarify, the plug should be a two piece, tapered to provide tension. the cut out for the plug needs to allow for that tention to apply back towards the reversed tapered cuts.
Hope that's a bit clearer than mud..
Dockkelly,
Doug U posted a decent drawing read my clarifing comments please if you have questions I'll gladly try to answer them..
I'm sorry, I've never mastered posting pictures.. (or anything else for that matter)
Hi Doc,
Maybe one of these will help?
http://www.tfguild.org/ubbcgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000038
http://www.arlingtontimberframes.com/scarfjoint.htm
Is this the one you were thinking of?
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=60953.6
Thats It!!! Thanks a million.
of a joint used to make a longer beam
Use "scarph joint" or "scarf joint" to search, that may help (or not, may just confuse).
now that someone has mentioned frenchy & his lack of picture posting proficiency ( of which I'm very guilty ) - some of my favorite pictures are of his home - a niece or daughter in law helped you??Share them again please
You'd think with all the other people that BT has in the greater Minn area we could convince one of them to go over and take some pictures of the damn place!
Now that I'm back in Iowa I'm half tempted to drive up there and do it myself.
Doug
Hey I'll chip in for gasyou are the one I always think about showing ( or hoping for a positive response ) my recently finished coffered ceilingsone day soon - be on lookout
I await the pics!
I just got done with a house that has a cool den with cherry coffered cielings, gonna post some pics this weekend.
Doug
Please please please help me figure out this posting pictures thing..
I drove to California to get my friends kid who does it professionaly (post pictures etc.) and it took him over an hour to do it. I got lost after about three minutes so you all now know my attention span with regard technology..
I tried to bribe locals with hardwoods like black walnut and etc. but while they took the wood nobody posted pictures or showed me how..
Frenchy
Get me some really nice crotch walnut, a few pieces will be needed, and I'll drive up there and will not leave until you are comfortable with the art of posting pictures!
When you have enough crotch walnut let me know, Fridays or Saturdays would be best for me. But dont try to f#%& me, I know what good crotch walnut looks like!
Doug
DougU
I've had some scraps in the past. Just short two or three foot lengths that were cut off the tails of some of my timbers that I kept around simply because I liked their look. Last summer when I was clearing out the basement you would have been more than welcome to them. In the end I gave them to a buddy to burn in his firepit.
What size are you looking for? or what would you like to make with them? I'm about ready to place my order for some more black walnut timbers for my North wall and I can have the sawmill keep an eye out for them. They will be real green. Actually if you come up Hwy 52 thru Cannon Falls Minnesota you could stop in and see if they have any around that would meet your needs..
Frenchy
I'm looking for any size pieces.
I'm going to build some old style spice boxes. FWW did a feature on them back a few years ago and ever since then I have wanted to build a few.
The spice boxes are about 12" - 14" tall, 8" deep. and when you open the door to the inside it has a multitude of drawers and sometimes either one or two small doors.
If I'm going to build these I want to use a lot of figured walnut, also figured maple but I have a good supply of that so I'm just interested in the walnut.
Basicly I want crotch walnut for drawer fronts and door panels. Because the size of the spice box is small the pieces of walnut dont have to be all that big. I can slice for veneer if need be, makes for a nice box if all the veneer is from the same piece of wood.
I'm going to build about 6 - 10 of these at once, you know, takes about the same amount of time to do one as it does 6 so why not.
Also not that you need to find me the walnut, not that I wont take it but..., the offer still stands for the pic posting lesson. Plus it'd give me the chance to see that damn house first hand!!!
Doug
DougU
Darn several chunks I gave away would have been nice.. hated to see them become firewood too!
I've got some up on the house now with a little crotch flame in it, the really pretty stuff is some fiddleback black walnut that has to be seen to appreciate. Two large boards 12"x 18 feet trim out the gable end on the west and the top of the south end..
There is a stack of 800 bd.ft of fiddleback maple in the driveway right now and the real gem of my collection is the ten boards of burl..
Real Burl 22 inches wide by 10 feet long.. (one inch thick) Those will be the center piece of my great room floor.. I intend to picture frame them in a wide plank maple floor with a two inch band of paduck on either side. A brass strip to seperate them and keep the deep red from the paduck from bleeding into the Burl or hard maple .
I also have 9 6x6 burl timbers. Real burl 10 feet high featured. I've only got Two pieces of Fiddleback white oak.. One is a buttress brace and one will be a 4x6 widow sill..
Anytime you would like to drive up I'd love to have you.. If I come across a piece that you might be interested in I'll E mail you...(unless you'd like a nice piece of that White oak Burl? I can't remember exactly but I think it was about 20 inches wide by about 4 feet long and about 3/8ths of an inch thick..
Edited 1/5/2007 7:50 pm ET by frenchy
two things:
HP printer or other brand with slots to accept the memory card from digital camera. Set camera to economy and you don't have to resize photos.
Sign up for Shutterfly, link attached.
Email me when youv'e done this and I'll walk you through it.Kevinhttp://www.shutterfly.com/
dockelly,
?!!!
I don't want to order prints, I want to send pictures etc.. Am I missing something?
You don't have to order anything, there way of getting the pictures off your card is very easy, with no obligation on your part. Obviously they hope you'll use them, very reasonable by the way, it's a marketing thing.
dockelly,
I don't have a port in my printer for the camera card.. (actually I suspect that the little old man with the chisel cutting out Egyptian hieroglyphics is getting a little old to be sending pictures, those stone tablets must weigh a ton! (not to mention the noise and dust)!
May I use the connection between the camera and computer instead?
the little old man with the chisel cutting out Egyptian hieroglyphics is getting a little old to be sending picturesGood help is hard to find.Your way is fine, make sure camera is set to "economy" so you don't end up posting huge photos. Of course you have to take the pictures AFTER you have set it to economy. Do the shutterfly thing and get back to me.
You on Shutterfly yet?
DougU's sketch is the most basic, and is often used. The center plug is a wedge, and drives it tight. The one shown in a post with a top dovetail is the kind of joint typically done for sills, not beams.
There is a neat way of doing the final cut on the surfaces where they butt near the points that involves a handsaw.
The Japanese do a scarf with an extra step, and here is one done on a deep beam, in cherry. Practically invisible.
View Image
"typically done for sills"
That's why I asked, thought I might take two 12' PT 4x6's and end up with a 22' sill to replace the broken sill. Actually think it might be a failed joint, see picture. Also see picture of stud off sill, no subfloor. 4x6 would match what's there.
You are causing me to recall (poorly) one of the several tomes by Howard I. Chappell, noted naval architect and historian.
He would blithely rattle off various kinds of scarph, getting embroiled in debate about whether the "current fashion" (this would be in the '20s) in keelsons or the like was a clear sign of the end of days or what not.
One of the tomes, though, had a selection of basic geometries for scarphs, keyed, un-keyed; wedged, stepped, etc. Handy things like clipping the sharp point by some fraction of the width of the timber; the length being some multiple of the timber depth, etc.
Want to remember one was a double-hook, keyed, double-wedged joint and was listed as a "barn scarph (not suitable for shipbuilding)"--but could be mis-remembering.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Scarf joint pictures... letsee...
Here is one that locks with a combinations of pegs and wedges... these top plates are 10x10 and the face of the joint ran about 3 ft.
View Image
... and the same joint all wedged and pegged into position...
View Image
... and here is a slightly different one... you can't see it, but the two sides of the joint also mate in "V' to notch in the horizontal plane.
View Image
Absolutely Beautiful!!! You got to keep the pictures coming as this house of yours progresses. I was about to post a message for a source for v groove knotty pine roof boards, the kind in your second picture. Did this come as a kit, or do you have a source for them? How thick are they?
ThanksKevin
Thanks Kevin. The v-groove pine is widely available in Maine, got mine from Hammond Lumber - they deliver throughout the state but I doubt they'll go as far as NJ. Those under the roof are 1x8's, I used 2x8 for the subfloor to get the same look over the timber frame joists.
Pete
I Googled it and had alot of hits for thinner stuff used for walls or ceilings but nothing very thick for roof boards. I thought I might use the thin stuff, 5/8 thick I think, and go over everything with 5/8 or thicker ply. I'll try my lumber yard, big box doesn't carry it.
Rhanks
Kevin
I just had to find it, man I hate it when I cant find somthing that I know is around somewhere. Ya next thing your gonna want is where is it. Hang on I'm looking, originally SYP council had it-I thought but I couldn't find it there. Hey it's only money, get your order up.
So I found this http://www.woodworkersshoppe.com/d&p.htm
View Image
Thanks Clay, I'm going to try and find something on the East coast to cut down on shipping costs. I've bookmarked their website just in case. Actually thought about making it myself, not T&G but maybe a routed rabbit along edge or even a beveled edge of say 15 degrees to allow for shrinkage. Even better if I could salvage the wood from one of the many houses being torn down around here, already shrunk, weathered. Sort of like a pair of Levis.Actually just had a thought, lots of 3/4" T&G knotty pine paneling in houses coming down. Since I want to be able to look up from porch deck and see the underside of porch roof with that look, maybe I can use that and than put layer of plywood over it to beef it up. What do you think? Do you see a problem with moisture betwwen layers leading to premature roof failing. Roof itself will be either asphalt or metal, standing seam.Thanks Again!!KevinEdited 1/11/2007 6:25 pm ET by dockelly
Edited 1/11/2007 6:27 pm ET by dockelly
I tried to look on line at the SYP Council but it seems their info isn't as ? in depth as it used to be. I have a old flier that shows the product and where it's available but it's soooo outdated.
I also think with some hunting you'll be able to find something that your looking to use.And in your area. I have to look around and see if i can find it.How many sq feet?
I don't think your gonna have a problem if you sandwich it but like anything look at the path of moisture and how it can travel.
Pitch roof? underside exposed and can it breath?
It bugs me when I can't zip zip on the computer and get the good stuff.
Any way go to this site http://www.southernpine.com/producers.shtml then heavy decking roofing shiplap/ and choose what ever type listed. I tried to link the finshed page but the link just takes you to the main site. You need to go down the list of which there are ?29 and see which one is closest. The one big one is G-P So any of the bigger lumber yards that carry there product can order it.
Georgia-Pacific Corporation
Clayton Blanton
55 Park Place, 15th Floor
Atlanta, GA 30303
Toll Free: 800 652-4777
FAX: 230-5711
Email: [email protected]
Website: http://www.gp.com
This producer can provide you with Lumber - Heavy Decking, Roofing, Shiplap products in 2x6 CM EV1S (T&G V-Joint).In Stock
Edited 1/11/2007 8:02 pm by ClaysWorld
thanks much Clay.
Here's my source for the v-groove pine:
http://www.hammondlumber.com/ 1-800-439-2354
And one other:
Maine Cedar Specialty Products 207-532-4293
thanks!
Took a look at the Hammond site. Good E layout.
Plus it's seems to be one of those companies that just make you want to salute the flag.