I was watching a couple of plumbers replacing a water line in the building where I work — looked like 2″ copper. Rather than sweating the joints they had a gizmo that crimped the fitting. Apparently there is an O-ring in it, and the crimper tool is sized for the particular fitting. I got to thinking that if this practice becomes universal, plumbers will no longer need to learn how to sweat joints. Another example of a potential “lost” plumbing skill might be making up joints in cast iron with oakum and lead. Electricians no longer need to know how to use tape to wrap a wire joint in knob and tube.
Are there other examples of skills being lost as old techniques are replaced by new methods?
Replies
Plastering may be one of the biggest. Not only is/was it a very demanding skill that took years to perfect, it could also be quite artistic.
Most "lost skills" become such as we strive to work smarter.....don`t know that thats always the result nor that we end up with a better finished product.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
Reading a slide rule ! ! My Dad was a Georgia Tech grad., an Industrial Engineer. I found his old slide rule in a shoebox in the attic the other day. My 13 year old says, " Dad, what kind of ruler is this ? "
I remember how excited Dad was around 1972 when he bought his first Texas Instruments calculator - it was about $150, as big as two packs of cigarettes, and it would add, subtract, multiply AND divide ! Wow !
Greg.
Hand drafting, rendering and architectural scale model building... It's unbelievable the impact that a simple mat board model has on people but alas, the digital era is making them rarer by the day.
Don't get me wrong, I love all the new digital tricks, but I have yet to see an architectural digital image or video cause as much of a stir as a good old fashioned scale model.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Don't get me wrong, I love all the new digital tricks, but I have yet to see an architectural digital image or video cause as much of a stir as a good old fashioned scale model.
You nailed it, man. I was in an architect's office last week for an estimate reconciliation meeting on a $20 million church project. They're a decent-sized firm- about 50 employees, and while they do some digital rendering, they build models for ALL their projects. They had three models for this church, including a section through the main assembly area. Even having been in this business as long as I have, being able to stick my nose into that model is ten times better than any animated fly-through ever would be. I can only imagine what the layman who has no concept of spatial relationships feels.
Bob
Kevin, my curiousity is piqued...does a dedicated model builder build the models, or does it require an architect? Sounds like a cool occupation, considering I only ever built models for fun. That, or get someone to pay me to play golf...ha!
Regards,
Tim Ruttan
Tim-
Most firms that build models have a guy on staff who builds models full-time if there's enough of them to keep him busy, or one "go-to" guy in the company who builds the models when they come up, and does other tasks the rest of the time.
There are a few companies out there that do nothing but build models, too- but those are usually the high-dollar presentation models like they unveil when they're proposing the new WTC buildings, or a major project. A guy I worked with in LV actually went out on his own building models, come to think of it. He would lay the floor plan on a sheet of foam-core, and cut vertical pieces to represent the walls. he'd glue the elevation drawings to the exterior, and detail them a little bit. Great, inexpensive models for the spatially challenged....lol
Sound like you and I have something in common- I build plastic models when the demands of the kids leave me a little free time (which isn't very often lately,....lol).
Bob
A friend of a friend does nice little models:
http://www.architrophy.com
Thanks for that link, that was very interesting as I've always wanted to do
something like that. Do you have any more links as to, I mean, how is this done, with
minature brick, windows, shingles etc. ?
There are dedicated model building businesses out there. We do all of ours in house but it's difficult to justify having the architect pull off the daily grind for a couple of weeks to put a detailed model together sometimes.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
"does a dedicated model builder build the models, or does it require an architect?"
TB,
As someone who occasionally does that type of work. No it doesn't require an archy.
Though, my line of work is a tad more broad now. I have done stuff like that in the past, and kinda' enjoyed it. "Model maker" is a very broad term/trade.
"Sounds like a cool occupation,"
It is, but nowadays, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Too many skilled "masters" out there, and minimal room for apprentices to move on up. and......it's not getting any better.
Go to college, get a marketing degree, do many internships, and ......maybe you will have a chance.
>> It's unbelievable the impact that a simple mat board model has on people but alas, the digital
>> era is making them rarer by the day.
That's a shame, because cutting out pieces for mat board models would be an ideal job for a computer. A simple X/Y table, knife up, down, and direction controls. This kind of setup would definitely be cheaper than 100% manually built models. Not as cheap as drawings, certainly, but for an architectural practice that would like to use models, it could be the difference between affordable and not affordable.
A robot that could sssemble and glue the models would be trickier.
No, but you could hire a bunch of 8 year olds for assembly. They are best suited to figuring out which piece goes where. You could even fool them into thinking that doing models is fun or something.
Touche'
That would be a nice trick. I have been working on a home built photo-etcher to etch out aluminum window frames but a CNC mat cutter would be sweet. I can miter 45 degree corners free hand (can't remember the last time I had to use a mat cutter on a picture frame) but a lazer would be far more precise. At 1/4" = 1'-0" scale, precision is pretty important.
Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
Edited 2/14/2004 9:42:23 AM ET by Wrecked Angle
I have been working on a home built photo-etcher to etch out aluminum window frames but a CNC mat cutter would be sweet
Home photo-etch is not that hard, as long as your "masks" print with similar accuracy to the CAD drawings used to create them. I've worked with a couple of the "desktop" prototyping routers. The limitation there is in the bits you use--a dull bit is no better than someone who has no "hand' with an x-acto. The CNC programming can be a pain, too. Sweet being able to model using SIPs directly, though.
Now, casting some master copies of off-the-shelf window or door units, that would be cool.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Model building is still a multi-million dollar business! There are many firms world wide that ONLY build architectural models. Some are cheapies like you are talking about using foamcore and matboard. But most are brilliantly constructed replicas that in a photograph cannot be discerned from a real building...these run tens of thousands of dollars.
And the computer will not kill models. There is a new form of model making using lasers called rapid prototyping. It has for a short while now been used in the tooling industry but is slowly making it's way into the architectural realm. The University of Michigan's college of architecture has one that I checked out...very quick to go from 3d solid rendering to architectural model. In time I'm sure it will be as commonplace as models were. UofM also had a laser cutter for wood models. It would cut balsa and thin ply to very exacting standards. Some of the work I saw there would have been almost impossible using a knife.
As far as other lost trades go...In my area It seems that plaster use is on the rise in high end homes. Sometimes its a true plaster and others it is skim coat gyp. bd. with plaster coves.
"I'd say there's far less handsaw use today than when I started out."
I was on a job not long ago doing some trim and couldn't find my hand plane. So I ask another sub if I could borrow his...He didn't own one. Not too uncommon these days eccept his logo was a hand plane and hand saw (he didn't have a hand saw either!) When I ask him why he used that logo he said it made people think he was a higher quality builder. I told him he should change it.
gk
>> And the computer will not kill models.
Well, according to the earlier poster I was responding to, computers are already killing models. Architects who used to use models now don't. The economic pressures on architecture are just as severe as on other trades. If an architect finds that a set of computer generated renderings will convey 60% or 80% as much information as a model and cost 95% or 98% less, the drawings will win nearly every time.
Labor is the largest expense for nearly every product made in the US, and it's never going to get any better. That's why I was speculating that a computer setup capable of taking over a bunch of most tedious and painstaking work involved in a model might bring the price down far enough that some architects who had decided models were unaffordable would find them affordable once again.
Another computer application that hasn't panned out for architects and builders is Virtual Reality. A lot of people have problems seeing how the spaces on a blueprint will translate into actual rooms. For me, imaging rooms is difficult even after the interior walls have been framed. All the rooms look way too small. VR was supposed to let the client see how the rooms would actually look, with paint, drapes, furniture, etc., and let the operator change any of the features and display the change in real time. Today's PC's are certainly powerful enough to do that, or would be if they weren't losing so many instruction cycles to a certain unnamed operating system.
Another computer application that hasn't panned out for architects and builders is Virtual Reality.
Architects and builders do use virtual reality to convey their ideas to clients. What else would you call a simulated walk through/fly though of the computer model of a stucture. This is essentially virtual reality...just because there is not the need for the sci-fi goggles it doesn't lessen the expirience so much for clients. In fact that is the precise reason that the default setting for computer animated walk through camera heights is at 5'9".
If an architect finds that a set of computer generated renderings will convey 60% or 80% as much information as a model and cost 95% or 98% less,
Computer modeling does not convey less information than a real model, in fact a quickly detailed computer model usually conveys more...and a well detailed computer model can take just as much labor as a well built real model. Computer modeling just as real modeling is a trade in itself. Neither are cheap. There are a growing number of firms that only do computer modeling and rendering and they make alot of money at it.
It is a common misconception that computer aided designs make such work so much easier. Computers are just a new tool to be mastered. A good paper draftsman shouldn't take any longer to design than a computer aided draftsman. Work on any medium whether computer drafting, modeling or paper drafting and real modeling is an artisan craft. They all take considerable skill and creativity.
My initial point was just that real life modeling will never die. It will always be a necessary tool of the architectural trade. It is a sales tool to fulfill a client's psychological need to view the finished structure before it is actually completed.
gk
>> What else would you call a simulated walk through/fly through of the computer model of a stucture.
I had no idea such things existed in a usable form. I last read about them many years ago when they were in the prototype stage and never heard anything about them since.
>> Computer modeling does not convey less information than a real model ...
Yes, but I wasn't comparing the real model to a computer model, since I didn't know there were any. I was comparing the real model to a set of static elevation and section drawings, which do convey less information than a real model.
>> A good paper draftsman shouldn't take any longer to design than a computer aided draftsman.
Until they start going through multiple change cycles. I've done just enough computer aided design/drafting to know that redrawing is much, much easier on a computer.
I did a full blown computer animation of a church youth building several years ago. It had an elevated running track in the gym and I actually did the tedious inverse kinematic key framing to have a runner jogging around it as the basketball goals folded up and volleyball nets appeared mid-court. The nets then morphed into banquet tables to convey the myriad uses of the space. On the second floor portion of the animation, folding panels slid out of hidden pockets in the wall splitting the game room into multiple classrooms and animated logos conveying tons of info lurked behind the magically opening doors. I also created several photo-realistic still image renderings showing the new building sitting right were it would be in front of the existing building when it was complete.
I thought it was brilliant - People yawned...
The Architectural model of a proposed addition sitting in the foyer of a different church my present firm designed got a whole lot more attention and generated a lot more buzz even though its dialog with the viewers was far more limited. I now think an architectural model is a far more useful tool than an animation. It's not because it conveys more information, it actually conveys much less. IMHO a model is more effective simply because it's perceived by the viewer as more interactive.
For that reason, fully immersed virtual reality has potential in architectural circles but it is a long way from practical or affordable. The current interactive 360 degree view type models are promising but they distort reality far too much - The fisheye effect is disorienting to most viewers. Neither one is easily transported to the foyer of a remote building for twenty or thirty people to interact with it at once either.
Currently, I think you are right on with your concept of using computers to automate model building. CNC milling, 3D printing, photo and lazer etching, etc. are going to continue making model building faster and more accurate. If I had to choose computer renderings or models to the exclusion of the other I would go with models every time. Investing in technology that makes model building easier seems more intelligent than pursuing technology that seeks to replace models.
Now architectural flat art is another story - that is going to become a lost skill. I do believe computer rendering and animation will eventually replace hand painted renderings completely. Just as flat art and models have always coexisted, computer rendering and animation will form a comfortable relationship where they enhance each other. Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
There is a new form of model making using lasers called rapid prototyping.
And it is very cool. Technical term is stereolithography. Two lasers intersect in a pool of liquid resin, and actually set the resin to full hardness. The model can actually be built inside and out.
Downside is that an "entry-level" SLT RP unit is around $60-65K, and about the size of a 25 cf refrigerator. That's before the cost of the resin, the stl software (CAM software can run $10k per seat), or the air handling & power requirements.
Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Sweet. I love the detail.
Yeah, RP is neat and keen, but:
My personal experience with the laser/plastic rapid prototying you describe (we've had it at work - big aerospace company in Seattle - since at least 1998) is that I can do an overall say 2 ft by 3 foot model of near anything (except stuff from already made drawings down to excruciating spar, etc detail) faster at home on band and table saw than the CAD/laser work, but RP does let the craft unskilled do most of the work. Same thing for one of a kind out of metal even, any more than 1 copy and the CADCAM stuff beats you to heck though. The shop built stuff I'm talking about being faster is where there are no drawings to start with (obviously RP is going to be faster), with the model or actual full scale hardware as the basis of future drawings.
Also, if like for the church model that WH described, don't let kids touch it, the resin we've used is super brittle (any suggestions?), as in a tap of a fingernail and a piece is broken, but I've not bothered with RP/laser/plastic for over a year, but wow, the first really, really detailed (equivalent to every nail in a house) RP model in '98 I saw really impressed people till it fell apart when the BOSS picked it up!
> really impressed people till it fell apart when the BOSS picked it up!
What's the material like? Could it be replaced with something stronger, like perhaps aluminum, in a lost wax type of process?
-- J.S.
LOST WAX PROCESS....now there's a lost skill.
John, betcha it could be, but you just raised the cost by a factor of 342!
.... But if that makes it boss proof, it might be worth the money. ;-)
-- J.S.
Kevin, You've really picked my interest. Do you have any more info,links, on these
scale models you refer to.
Butch,
I did an internet search for architectural scale models and apparently it's not as lost an art as I thought it was. Tons of hits and some nice work being done out there...Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
still use slide rule occasionally, for simplet things like a string of p*v/T, it's faster than a calculator, but slower than spreadsheet.
I'd say there's far less handsaw use today than when I started out. I bet there's lots of folks call themselves "carpenters" who don't have even one in their everyday tool box, much less an assortment for different tasks.
Skill with a hammer is in serious decline with the advent of pneumatic nailers, too. I doubt hammers will become artifacts in my lifetime, but there are a heck of a lot of people who have trouble driving nails by hand.
Six foot folding wooden rulers. Can't remember the last time I saw a carpenter whip one of those out of their back pocket.
...there are a heck of a lot of people who have trouble driving nails by hand.
I'll admit to being one of those. When we roofed our house, it wasn't the first nail I had trouble with, but by the 500th I didn't want to swing that hammer anymore. It started out a mere 16 (or was it 18) oz, but by the end of the day it was 80 pounds, I swear.
You wouldn't enjoy laying block.
They weigh 40 pounds at 7AM.
Joe H
Anybody want to buy some of those okum drivers?
"You wouldn't enjoy laying block. They weigh 40 pounds at 7AM."
Come on now, that's the lightweight modern stuff.
Real masons set big stones. How about those stonecarvers and such. Talk about a lost art...
Speaking of masons, when was the last time you saw one lay-up a basement? These days most are poured concrete. But they have that "real brick" look, thanks to those embossed forms.
The skill of laying block sure isn't lost and some things are done better the modern way. I can do a block foundation cheaper than a reinforced concrete, but I won't.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My first real vacation job for my father was working with the drainlayer, who taught me to cut and lay salt-glazed drainpipes -- tarred oakum and cement joints. The next was working with the plasterer who was repairing and adding to plaster crown moulding by running it in situ. He taught me to make the profile cutter and wooden 'horse' that held it.<br>
Yes, I'm just a mine of useless information! --- I have cut many a hipped roof by hand though, and nailed many a square of flooring with my old Stanley 24oz hammer. That was a boring, mindless exercise -- the only excitement was dropping behind your mate working the next row to you and nailing his pants leg to the floor.
IanDG
You're right, I wouldn't enjoy the block. But I did have a blast laying the uncut sandstone for our front walkway. Some of those were in excess of 100 pounds, but it was fun working out the puzzle that would look good. However if they paid me to do it, I'd go broke - took me a LOOOOONNNNG time to get it where it looked right.
I've got a vintage 1911 "Wizard" rock face block machine. Makes 'em nice and slow, one at a time weighing in around 65 lbs a piece. I don't know what i was thinking when I started this project.
Are you having fun?
Just for the hell of it is as good as reason as any.
No matter how much work it is, it's worth it sometimes.
But blocks ain't fun, just expedient in my case.
Joe H
No takers for my okum pokers yet.
>> Makes 'em nice and slow ...
You mean slow as in one a day, or what?
no, I have plates and the strength to get through 40 a day. But the process is - mix a little in my mortar mixer, add enough to theWizard to make a block, tamp, strike, unmold and start again. Takes me 6-8 hours to make 40 blocks.
...there are a heck of a lot of people who have trouble driving nails by hand.
Went to help a friend with a patio. When I got there they were complaining about the cheap nails bending all the time. I took the nails and sent them home in 2 whacks, they thought I was God :-]
Its no secret, I was the only one with a wafel faced hammer, they all had smooth faced hammers.
The skill that is missing are cement finishers who trowel on coats of cement on the curbs and cutters to make them finished and smooth.
the handsaw thing is true, I have a few, mostly hand-me-downs from gramps that don't get used, but the one cheapo I have in my tool box I pulled out yesterday or the day before and the guy I was working with laughed, and suggested I get the circ saw from the truck, I said go ahead by time he got back I was done with the cut I needed to make :)
and the hand-driving nails... I'll willfully admit I am no where near as good as hand nailing as I should be, mainly due to the fact that nail guns are so prominent on the typical job site.
Plastering isn't lost , it just isn't around like it used to be. There is a plasterer's union even which I was a member of for a while. I'm working on an older house right nowin fact where I pointed out the "plaster grounds" what were laid in as part of the lathing work after we pulled off the old baseboard. Nobody knew what they were so I gave a quick lesson on flatwork procedure. I worked also in the decorative field of plastering which falls not so much under a lost trade but as a specialty skill, the artisan. When you do restoration & conservation work, you will find alot of these "lost trades" still around.
I get snickered at because of how much I use hand tools, epecially my various hand planes. There are so many "carpenters" today who don't even own a handplane, or even a handsaw, nor do they know how to properly sharpen tools. Ever work with a drawknife, broad axe or froe? I keep a stick rule in my box but never use it anymore. My first miterbox was a big heavy Millers Falls with a long wide backsaw. It's a beautiful tool but today is obsolete. Anyone ever use a hand rip saw anymore? I would love to know what happened to my slide rule I had in high school. I have an adz (sp?) that was Grandpa's and I tried it one time. Those old timers never needed a gym. I still say the scales fell from my eyes when I bought my first sawzall.
>> Plastering isn't lost, it just isn't around like it used to be.
You got that right. I'll bet money there are big chunks of the country where there isn't a working platerer within 300 miles, or if there is one, he's seventy something, and hasn't done a real plaster wall in thirty years, and doesn't really want to do another one very much.
Jer
many "carpenters" today who don't even own a handplane, or even a handsaw, nor do they know how to properly sharpen tools.
I work with that guy, says he cant sharpen tools, just goes out and buys new chisels when the old ones get dull. If I can only talk him into buying some Sorbys or Two Cherries I will have it made.
And he wouldnt know what to do with a plane if ya gave it to him so no use wasting your time.
Doug
I'd have to agree with plastering. I live in a 1928 house, with the good fortune of having a 4th-generation plasterer living next door. I've learned a lot from him, but nothing can substitute for time with the tools in your hands. Watching him lay on the finish coat of lime plaster is a pleasure. He can make it so smooth, and the way he lays it on is like he's frosting a giant cake. The hawk and trowel are just extensions of his hands. He'd probably use them at the dinner table, if his wife let him.
I helped him make some molds for running plaster cornice, but haven't actually watched him do that. It definitely is an art form, and sorry to say, one that that is going away.
A lot of people who apply Dryvet or EIFS consider themselves plasterers, but believe me, there is a world of difference.
Here's one that might be gone. About 25 years ago, I spen two days watching a crew building a log cabin. Not a kit home -- a real log cabin.
The "homeowner" owned most of the mountainside (in Lee county Virginia). He was land rich, and cash poor, due to being taxed to death for the coal, which was valuable, but couldn't be mined economically.
One workgroup was cutting trees. The were higher on the mountain than tha worksite. Three teams were dragging logs down the mountain after they had been "branched".
As the logs arrived, there was a group of strippers, who quickly removed all of the bark.
And there was this one guy, who looked to be about 110 years old, who cust all of the logs, and formed all of the notches. And the notches were not round-outs.
Both ends of every log was cut into a dovetail -- actually a double dovetail, with reverse angles in both directions. His tools included a 50 foot tape measure, a framing square, a pencil, and a chainsaw.
Took him about 8 or 10 minutes per end, and the log was ready to be placed. And every one fit as perfectly as the dovetails in the cabinets that most of us install.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
Working on my circa:1680 house I relized that almost everything's been lost.
Hey how bad could ol' time building be?
..this house has stood here for over 300 years....
I've been undoing all the crap work people had been doing on this house for over the past hundred years or more.
Seeing what people had done to make life easier for them really has me shaking my head.
Pictures soon to come.
Be well
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Pictures soon to come.
Yeah, yeah yeah....we`ve been hearing this for a while....you oughtta just pin it to your tagline....yer gettin` as bad as Frenchy. LOLJ. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
you'd think between my expensive dig camera and my cell phone camera and my 35 mm camera I'd have some pictures already. Oh well, one day.
Iactually have been taking pictures of the work I'm doing in the living room on my 35 mm. Up to wallpapering.whata hassle wallpapering is. I feel like the episode of I Love Lucy when her and Ethal were wallpapering...lol. Dark wallpaper is a serious bidtch to do....
Aint been a framing due to the wheather. Why should I freeze my booty off when I have so much to do inside. When I get back from skiing next week I may start again outside. Soon as I hire someone. My Pakastanie apprentice quit thursday...big baby!
Hey if you ever get slow and wanna give me a week..I'm up to the second floor and all the woods been boomed up there.
Catch you next week when I get back.
Be well
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Just got my plumbing, electrical and framing inspections done this past week.....I`m so looking forward to insulation and sheetrock.
I`ve actually been taking advantage of the balmy weather round here this past week and working on the exterior....looks like I`ll be back inside this week though.
If I get to a point where I can spare a few anytime soon, I`ll swing down and give ya a hand....at this point I`m just trying to avoid divorce court. Wifes been a trooper...but I see her patience is being tried of late.
Enjoy the skiing....I`m hoping to hit an island in the not too distant future myself.
All the best!J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
"I've been undoing all the crap work people had been doing on this house for over the past hundred years or more"
Yeah, but I'll bet you still aren't hewing out timbers with an adze old buddy.
Talk about lost skills! I've done it, but not because I prefer to.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I not only own an adze and a draw knife but I actually do use them.
I remember an old thread about how to make old looking beams the right way.
One post in particular was extremely informative...wish I'd have bookmarked it.
Bessie....this old lady I lived on top of a mountain in the foothills of Virgina with(Lovingston......Nelson County...biggest shine county in the south ; ) one year taught me skinnin' and shapin'...............no its not sex.......although
Wow.now ya gots me goin....I can remember being takin' into a small man made cave to see the Shelton's still.
I remember the helicopters at night beaming light into the woods looking for smoke where there weren't any houses........uh huh....and they claimed it was checking power lines......uh huh.
BEst shine in the south and that was a treat and honor that they trusted me.
Sold in Tropicana orange juice bottles..$50 bucks a quart......and that was over twenty years ago. Although I know the Sheltons ran it through their still twice....burnt the hairs offa my tongue.
Be still
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Piffmiester
one other thing......I was waiting for you to jazz up your tag line....its been a while since you were reprimanded for such a long tag line.........this one works sweet..
and.oh yeh...I try and break up my paragraphs.
Be well
andyMy life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
still have my joint runner, caulk tools, and ladle.....
One skill I've not seen anyone do since the early 50's is to take an asbestos rag in the palm of your hand, pour it full of molten lead, and wipe a butted 1-1/2 dia lead pipe joint for a perfect first time seal.
>> still have my joint runner, caulk tools, and ladle.
Yeah, but what does that prove? You still have every tool you've ever bought, built, or scrounged. :o)
>> One skill I've not seen anyone do since the early 50's ...
I'm so glad to hear it. The very thought gives me the shudders.
I saw the wiped lead joint done in 1962 when I was a 2nd year carpenter apprentice. The plumber that did the work was at least 65 years old then. Never seen it done since.Plumber boss told me that it was a lost art then.
mike
I learned to wipe a lead pipe joint one time about 20 years ago when I went through it with a flooring nail. Thank God there was an old schooled plumber there.
My grandpa could wipe lead an' he was only a DIY plumber in the '30's. Professional blacksmith and carp.
Interesting how EVERY one of the 30+ or so of his kids, grandkids, and great to great grandkids have NEVER hired anyone else for any carp, automotive, or plumbing work done -- except the one who plays pro ball, he's too rich <G> to do that stuff. My grandpa's skills probably came from his own grandpa, who was so cheap he dug his own coal mine rather than buy coal, and flour mill rather than pay to have his corn ground. The mine operated till 1964 in Venedy Il when it had a big cave in, the mill came down in the '70s. Great-great grandpa was a tiny small fry compared to Carnegie, Rockefellers, etc., but we all like to think he just was not greedy, just did not want greedy people to get their hands on his efforts?
What is really becoming lost are people who at least willing to try to do everything.
Becoming a nation of wootses???
I use my handsaws quite a lot. Cant seem to justify getting out a power cord,circular saw and ear muffs for a few bits that can be cut faster by hand.
Last year I ripped and mitered a load of stuff for 8 motel units. After ripping a long piece its amazing how much your arm swells up and how heavy it feels. The old timers must have had arms like popeye and hands like hams.
The number of guys who can cut a roof themselves gets smaller all the time. Seems to be too many who cant even hang a door.
Everything, 100% of it, depends on how you look at it.
DW
Hanging a door..... that's the thing that popped into my mind when I first thought of Lost Skills.
Oh, and finishing it off with a lockset kit. I have a beautiful Kwikset kit that I bought in the late 70s. One with all the marking tools.
It sure isn't as much fun boring the lock thru particle board though.View Image
just picked up a coupla sticks of jamb stock ... have a coupla cut down access doors to make in a basement
my helper said he never saw a door hung from scratch ...
said if I knew that ... we'd have picked up 1x and made the jambs from scratch too!
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I've done many jobs hanging the door from scratch including making the jambs. If you get a rhythm going, and make up a doorhangers bench, it's one of the more satisfying procedures in finish carpentry. Everything's very methodical, yet there is that room for eyeballing and intuition. I use a nickle for a spacer guage.
On my own house, all the outside doors are hung on pairs of edge glued 3x4 oak milled to fit the studs, no shims. That probably never was a commercial skill, the oak is from pallets. .
Another hand-tool skill that is vanishing is the proper use of a shovel. Here in S. CA, very few anglos can or will do that type of work, and I have shown a lot of guys the fine points of digging, and the joys of using forged shovels. They are harder to find because the guys who buy shovels do not know the difference from stamped, and never will, because they won't do the digging themselves.
Bugle
Now that's one I haven't thought of , the proper use of a shovel. When I first started to learn the trowel trades a little Jamaican guy, Jimmy Weeks, taught me how to mix concrete with just a shovel and a piece of plywood, or even just a shovel if you had a concrete floor to mix on. He showed me how to quit using my back so much, use the legs, to flip the material out with a turn of my wrist and get a rhythm going. "ya mon!!"
Was that a flat shovel or a regular rounded nose shovel? With the rounded nose, you'd just about have to use the side of the shovel for your working edge, and that sounds painfully awkward.
No, for mixing you use a flat shovel.
See that may be a differece in local customs.
The old timers that taught me to hang a door used a siver dollar for a spacer.
I have a '74 that has lived in the watch pocket of all my Levis since it was new from the bank.View Image
One skill I've not seen anyone do since the early 50's is to take an asbestos rag in the palm of your hand, pour it full of molten lead, and wipe a butted 1-1/2 dia lead pipe joint for a perfect first time seal.
When I was a teenager, I watched a rather old plumber as he made a trap using that technique. The body of the trap was a 4" pipe. Two pipes were soldered to it at differing hieghts. A scrap of pipe became the bottom, and a threaded plug was used for the top.
All soldered together while kneeling on the floor.
Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.
When the Skil saw came into widespread use about 50+ years ago, the skills of hiding wild ends and trimming one by in place with a hatchet went away. Not all lost skills are things we should regret.
-- J.S.
rebuild an old double hung window ...
remove/install ... single pane window glass ...
both come to mind ... as I watched an "older experienced" carpenter fight with both recently ... wasn't my job site ... kept my mouth closed ...
But had to laugh inside ... rebuilding double hungs was one of my first "jobs" when helping my Dad remodel ... I was about 10 or 12 when I'd do a whole house ... one by one ... pretty much by myself.
Started fixing the broken panes a few years later ...
Kid's learn lotsa old methods if they "work" for a DAd who's too damn cheap to buy any new "production tools" ...
We hand nailed everything ... took years after I went on my own to convience him that yes ... installing crown really is easier with a finish gun!
Moving up to a power miter saw was a big step for him too.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
I can relate.
Years ago I bought a Roto-Zip basically for cutting out high-hats in drywall ceilings. When I told my dad I wanted to try it out on this kitchen we were doing with about 20 lights, he started saying stuff like we don't need all these new gadgets, it'll never work, etc.
Well, after zipping out the first couple of lights, he wanted to borrow mine.( He stiil didn't want to spend his money on one, but using mine was OK )
As far as lost skills go, I look at some of the ol;d Victorian houses around this area and marvel at what the old carpenters were able to do with just a hammer, saw, and a few other tools. If I had to cut framing materials all day long with just a hand saw, I think my arm would drop off.
> If I had to cut framing materials all day long with just a hand saw, I think my arm would drop off.
That's why the old timers developed the skill of hiding wild ends. That or they'd carry stuff to a table saw on site.
-- J.S.
i would like to find a 20 year old kid who can add 20 numbers without asking "where is the calculator ?"
carpenter in transition
Mason work has certaintly taken a hit in my lifetime. When I started, buildings were still being built with solid brick walls. 16 -20 inch thick first floors, then 12", then 8". Then along came the cinder block and away went the solid brick walls. When was the last time any of you brickies did a building with Flemish bond,or English bond ,or English Cross bond. You never see that anymore. Do you ever drive down the street in your towns and look up at the ornate brick facades on the old buildings and wonder how they did that? Never see that being done today.
<Do you ever drive down the street in your towns and look up at the ornate brick facades on the old buildings and wonder how they did that?>
lostarrow-
I'm not a mason by any stretch of the imagination,
but anytime I'm riding in a new city, well, I live up there.
you mean you guys actually get paid for this stuff???
I own 4 or 5 Yankee screwdrivers, but I can't remember the last time I used them. I should probably check to see if they're still down in my basement.
I thought I was so cool when I got my first one and brought it to the job.
Another lost skill-- how many guys can file a hand saw? I was taught how to as a young carpenter, and did for awhile, but I haven't sharpened a saw myself in 20 years.
Used my Yaknkee yesterday. All my cordless stuff was on the job and had to put in some hinge screws at home. It was actually a pleasure to screw around again. BTW I have a mid size yankee that was my grandfathers- made by the "Yankee Tool Company, Phila. "- pre stanley.
I too have an old Yankee,full size. It says --"Yankee" No131A North Bros. Mfg. Co. Phila. PA USA. PAT. DEC. 11-23. -- on the barrel. It's all brass where the newer ones are chrome. I used to use it all the time on the job.I think I could have been the last one to go cordless. Now, I use it now and then in the shop, just for old times.Be not afraid of going slowly. Be afraid only of standing still. chinese proverb
Just a few mutterings....
Panel walls.
Construction Master Pro (I love mine) vs. a rafter square.
Sharp handsaws.
Oh I don't know. What's that they say--work smarter not harder? Did anybody ever say work smarter and harder?
Native rock layers, layed foundations here . Footing and foundation from stone in one lay so to speak.
One thing missed is the art of operating a sledge and an axe. Those are common skills that should be kept , but they are not .
Tim Mooney
have you seen a set of plans lately?
talk about lost skill..
I really miss boring holes in joists for pipes and wires with the trusty brace and bit. Why would you want to use a shaper when you could use a moulding plane. Man, I just love cutting mortise and tennon joints with a chisel. Keep the carbide handy for the miners lanterns we use when working in basements and crawl spaces. Why would you want to use a no-hub coupling when you could heat up the lead, pack the okum, pour the molten stuff and then tamp it all nice and tight. Breaking concrete with the old 20 pounder just makes me want to get up early and get a jump on the day. Gotta love those star drills, too. The older tools and skills are fun, but we gotta make a living, too.
When did you say your doctor's appointment was???
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
If you want to see a cool model go to
http://www.teamtwintowers.org look at the models of the proposed trade center.
Clik on "the plan of the people" seen the model on tv this morn while getting ready for work, prety cool.
Doug
OK -- point taken. I didn't mean to imply that we should weep for these lost skills. For many of the tasks requiring the skills -- good bye and good riddance! Certainly, new skills have replaced them, e.g. using a router safely and efficiently.
I do like using a brace and bit. Love that feel when the spur bites into the wood. Although I love it just as much on a piece on the work bench as on a dusty splintery joist.
Amen, but it is kinda fun to reminisce about the "old days and old ways"