I live in a 78 year old home in Los Angeles. The living room floor is supported at the perimeter with a stem wall foundation and on the interior by a series of beams supported by posts on top of poured in place concrete piers. The “posts†are really 2 rough 2×4’s (2inches x 4 inches) scabbed together and toenailed to the rough 4×6 beam (4 inches x 6 inches) The “posts†simply sit on the concrete pad which is not even in line the beam. I’ll be replacing each post and concrete pier. On the bottom to connect the post to the pier, I’ll use a Simpson 4×4 column base imbedded in a new cast in place pier. Then a 4×4 post (3½ inches x 3½ inches). Then a Simpson post cap (probably the AC4) to connect the post to the existing rough 4×6 beam. The post is ½ inch less than the beam it sits under. An architect acquaintance suggested purchasing a 4×6 beam (3½ inches x 5½ inches) and reducing it down to so it will measure 3 ½ inches x 4 inches on the top portion and 3½ inches x 3½ inches on the bottom portion. This way I’ll achieve a fit in both connectors and match up to the beam. The easiest way to accomplish this would be with a band saw, which I don’t have and have no access to. Is there any other way to do this? I’ve got a table saw, skill saw, a portable planer, belt sander etc
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WHY??? are you doing this? Seems like you're making a whole bunch of work for yourself, so what's the reason? You're planning to excavate and pour new piers under the house?
John Sprung is the local expert & described it as no fun. Course, he sez he's old, maybe if you're younger it'll be nicer under there?
Curious Joe H
i'm upgrading the foundation to meet earthquake codes
How tall are your posts, or how far is the beam from the grade? If you are gonna pour concrete, can you just form the pier all the way to the beam? With a suitable beam connector embedded in the pier? Or maybe have some short steel posts with connectors made up?
Might be worth contacting Simpson and see if they have a suggestion. They make about a zillion different gizmos, maybe they have something in one of their catalogs that will do the trick for you. Joe H
At the highest point, the beam is 24" above grade. At the lowest point, maybe 16". From the bottom of the beam to the bottom face of the subfloor is about 6". (I think the floor joists are rough 2x6's. This only gives me about 6 inches above a concrete form (if I'm forming a pier all the way up to the bottom of the beam) to work with. I'm not sure if this is enough clearance to place concrete in the form.
Does Simpson make 4x6 post bases? Or use a standard 4x4 and add more than existing so the spacing is closer. Or...ask your lumberyard (not HD) to order a couple of rough 4x4...they're still available.
Are your perimeter cripple walls bolted down and shearwalled with structual plywood? That's the first and most important thing you need to do. You could go with lags and shields or epoxy for the bolt down. If you do that, why not also bolt the Simpson hardware down to the existing concrete piers? Even given the relative luxury of 16" to the girders, schlepping mud into there will be a miserable task. You could do them one at a time, which would take months, or face a nearly impossible cribbing job to try to get them all ready to pour at once with a pumper.
If you're not doing it yourself for the fun of it, there is a great contractor here who specializes in bolt downs and shear walling, Mike Goldberg of Whitecastle construction. I almost remember his number, I'll look it up if you want. He did my place, a crew of ten guys did it like a commando raid in four hours, for a little over $4k. That's for a 1600 sf footprint done to three story code.
As for ripping down the 4x6's, does your table saw blade extend 2" above the table? If so, for this kind of rough job, you could do the rip in two passes, turning the lumber over. But that assumes a fairly gutsy table saw. I've done it on my old Unisaw, even back when it had the original 1 HP motor. If a modern 4x4 is strong enough and you're just looking to make it fit right in the Simpson stuff, you could take the leftover scraps of 1/2" Struct #1 plywood from your shearwalling. rip them down 3 1/2" wide, and glue them to the 4x4's.
When you buy the Simpson hardware, remember the "R" suffix on their part numbers to get things sized for full 4" rough lumber rather than 3 1/2". Since you're in L.A., the place to get everything is Pennsylvania Builders Supply, 6659 Santa Monica Blvd. in Hollywood. They have all the Simpson stuff, and absolutely everything that has anything even remotely to do with concrete, stucco, plaster, tile grout, brick, mortar, etc. I told them that their motto should be "If it hardens, we have it." They're kinda tucked away in the interior of the block hidden behind Terry Lumber, which is not a place I'd recommend.
BTW, where in LA are you? I'm in Hollywood near the Paramount lot, in a 1926 two story that I'm converting from four units to a single family. And Joe's right. I'm old. ;-)
-- J.S.
Speaking of oldddddd......sometime in the past FHB had an article on seismic retrofiting foundation to framing connectors. Couple of pages of well illustrated how-to under the house with the live spiders and dead cats. Also old Joe H
Issue #64: "Riding out the big one"
A structural engineer friend looked at the post to beam connection using 2x material as bolster and yoke and nixed it, saying that it was too easy for the scabbing to fail in a good shake. Much better to use metal connectors. As for spiders, I've yet to meet one I couldn't handle. Haven't seen any dead cats though.
Gee, I have a dead cat in my crawl space -- if anybody wants it, just come by and pick it up.... ;-)
-- J.S.
Thanks for your reply,
It’s true that the first consideration is the perimeter. In my case, the sill is bolted to the stemwall foundation. Poorly, I might add. I’m still pulling out by hand the expansion bolts placed in oversized holes by a foundation contractor in the mid eighties. I’ve gone around myself and replaced most of them using code approved epoxy adhesive and Simpson foundation anchors. Unless I strip the stucco off the walls it’s impossible to apply sheathing to create a shearwall. Placing concrete in the crawlspace is not fun, but it doesn’t intimidate me. I’ve done it before when I added a beam under a floor that needed to be beefed up to support a mortar bed and tile floor. My architect friend vetoed the idea of gluing and scabbing on a piece of plywood. He said it was preferable to chop down a 4x6 to fit the Simpson anchor. I actually called up several local lumber yards and nobody had doug fir in rough 4x4’s, only redwood. The existing concrete piers are not in good shape. The tops are not flat and the concrete quality is poor (what do you expect after so many years?) so anchoring to them is not feasible. Where does this all leave me?
I have a 2 HP motor on my tablesaw and probably could rip the 4x6 down in 2 passes as you suggested and afterwards planning or sanding off the inevitable ridge that occurs when you do this. I’ve checked out the Simpson AC4 anchor which is a 2 piece deal, one on each side of the post and beam. This means that only 1 dimension is fixed unlike some other connectors where both dimensions are fixed. So because the 4x6 will really be 3½x4 (after I rip it) the anchors will fit on each side.
I’m quite familiar with Pennsylvania Builders from as long ago as 1980 when I laid down a patio of about 6 pallets of brick in sand purchased from them. Their previous location was on Santa Monica near Edgemont. If I remember correctly, the owner’s son’s name was Steve.
I know exactly where you’re at. All those streets around Melrose and Van Ness with their craftsman style bungalow houses that are somehow still standing up. I live near El Coyote restaurant which is on Beverly Blvd and Fuller in a home that was originally built in 1928. I’ve done a lot of work on it, mostly myself. As any owner builder knows, the number of home improvement projects possible is directly proportional to the amount of time you want to spend doing other things like sleeping, eating, etc.
The shearwalling job on my cripple walls was done on the inside of the crawlspace. Could you do it that way? If you do, code requires vent holes thru the plywood. Mine were done with a 2" hole saw, and screen wire stapled over them.
Sanding the posts after the two pass rip is completely unnecessary, and exactly the way I'd do it, too. I've been told that I'm doing rough carpentry better than some people build furniture, and it sounds like you have that same labor of love attitude. BTW, I'm sure you already know that ripping invalidates the grade stamp -- not that it would matter for these short posts.
I've eaten at El Coyote on Beverly. We're just over a block away from Lucy's El Adobe on Melrose. Ours a 1926 two story that I'm converting from four units to a single family. In the Tavern there's a thread about terraserver satellite photos, and I put a link to the satellite photo of our place in there. It's nice to know I'm not the only one around here. ;-)
-- J.S.