I’ve got to replace my roof this season (it has lovely lichen-covered cedar shakes now) and want to use standing seam galvanized steel (prominent local supplier sells Champion, can’t remember if it’s 12″ or 16″). House is 28×42 with gables facing 4 ways, two intersecting ridges, and four valleys. Roof is 7/12. There are short sections of eave at both ends of the long dimension, but I think there’s less than 35 feet of gutter on the place. Rafters are 2×6 and are sagging visibly the way rafters in all old houses sag. There is 1×4 skip sheathing on now and I assume I would add 1/2″ ply after stripping the cedar.
Never done a metal roof, so I don’t know how challenging it is (supplier says it’s easy but he wants to sell stuff) and I’m not sure how the panels will lay on the concave roof surface. Lots of angled cuts for those valleys, too. Whaddya all think?
Pic attached–no, we don’t have to fertilize to get the lichen that color.
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You've got a lot of valley, several penetrations (chimneys, etc), and the double gable on the front which translates to lots of cutting preformed sheets to make 'em fit. I'd look very carefully at the valley detail of the product you're considering.
Sorry, that photo is from the pre-obsessive-compulsive era, during which I tore the place up. The chimneys are gone. Roof penetrations are: two plumbing vents (2 and 3"), one 3" B vent for the water heater, and one future vent for a propane heating stove (6" or 8" I assume), one skylight, one possibly one roof hatch so I can get on the roof from the attic (client's house had, that, molto bueno).
< that photo is from the pre-obsessive-compulsive era, during which I tore the place up. The chimneys are gone. >
pre-obsessive-compulsive era.
I think we have a veteran in the making.
Your roof is not unlike mine in several respects, i.e., the valleys and penetrations, etc.
I did mine myself several years ago, and not having worked with standing seem before, I found it to be a little challenging.
What helped me, and ultimately saved me, was finding a good supplier who gave me good instruction in their "training" room, and provided me with a tool kit (which required a deposit, refundable once I returned the tools). The tools included a couple of manual bending brakes and a "notching tool" for fitting their propietary hip and ridge pieces over the seams.
BTW, I built my house in stages over several years and the first batches of roofing came from Champion. The roofing on one wing of the house lost it's shine after about 2 years....became very powdery looking and I had to replace it. By that time, Champion had folded their tent here in Oregon and the whole thing was on my dime.
Maybe they've gotten their act together, but, were I you, I'd shop around.
Standing seam metal is almost a commodity anymore; in fact, there's a guy here in town who just bought a machine, so he can roll it off right on the jobsite. The key is the quality of the coil stock...there's a lot of "deals" that go around in the steel industry and some suppliers will snap up "surplus" or "2nds" when the price is good and some of this stuff, instead of being identified for what it is, ends up being passed on as being A-1, which it may or may not be.
Otherwise, my roof has been good, but requires semi-annual cleaning, especially in the valleys since I'm surrounded by trees.
My roof is installed over 5/8ths plywood sheathing and #30 felt. I have seen it installed over skip sheathing, but that wouldn't be my choice.
Have fun and keep bandaids close at hand....and a roof rig so you don't fall off!
skip sheathing .... wouldn't be my choice
I've wondered if my house's skip sheathing might have prolonged the life of my metal roof. The constant air flow against the backside of the metal might have prevented condensation from lingering long enough to rust through.
On the other hand, plywood and 30# felt would keep the air from getting to the underside of the metal, so there would be no source of moisture to condense in the first place.
-- J.S.
I think the metal panels would have what they call an "oil can effect" if your rafters are bowed.
Other than that I think it is definitely doable. Those 12" panels are a lot easier to cut for valleys than the Delta rib 36", IMHO. The tricky part is going to be getting your ridge caps to look decent where they meet at the top and over the porch where the ridge meets the gable end.
I would run your G.E. trim first and then butt your ridge cap into it (over porch).
Just a thought, Dave
How about copper? It may help keep the lichen from growing, or at the very least, come a little closer to them in color.
--J.S.
That's a quaint craftsman bungalow. I like shigles for them for appearaance.
I can't see too much sag to the rafters in the photo, but I would suggest straightening things out before putting preformed pans on it. Standing seam takes a bit of patience, especially to startout with, and the dimples from uneven surface will make it harder to get the hangof and will not look classy at all.
I would either strip dow enoguh to sister the rafters straight and plywood new, or leave shingles in place and lay 1x4s over them on pattern with shims under to straighten the plane of the roof out. Then the roofing could be fun again.
But I still think shingles will look better on that place.
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Piffin,
Cedar roofing in this neck of the woods always gets that lichen growing on it, and you can't walk on it without pulverizing it. I agree it looks pretty good and I guess I might replace it in kind if it didn't get so... toasted. Since the photo was taken the sidewalls have been re-shingled with alternating 5-1/2" and 2-1/2" exposures like the gables. So, we gots lotsa cedar showing now.
I definitely want to strip the roof, because it's just not my nature to leave old material under new. I could straight-line things by installing the plywood over shims rather than directly to the skip sheathing. Then the metal would have something relatively flat to lay on.
i would sister a new alongside existing to remove sag, instead of shimming. once you have stripped roof of shingles it should be fairly easy to install new rafters alongside through the gaps in skip sheathing. just tap the skip sheathing up for clearance where old rafters have sagged so you install sister to correct height above existing, then re-roof as is your choice.
you definitely want to address sagging when you change from cedar shakes that hide a multitude of sin to a material that will show off every imperfection, and if you are even slightly obsessive/compulsive it has to be perfect or a little bit better. i would want to take every practical step i could to make sure it didn't sag again, including but not limited to bracing and blocking in addition to sisters.
It all depends how weak those old rafters are. It'd definitely be better to sister in if you are stripping the roof anyway.
For shingles, if you go that way, use asphalt arch grade for the look and avoid the growths.
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Didn't some publication just have an article on metal shingles? Maybe JLC. Frank
boy oh boy. my neighbor in the last year has bastardized a once beautiful 1912 Sears Roebuck gambrel, first vinyl siding and this past fall with some awful looking metal shingles - the kind with the big orange sign out front "you too can be a model home for huge savings!". nice glossy battleship gray roof over tan vinyl....
I'd look very closely at the metal shingles, then if you really like the look go see a house in the color you're considering. They can be a great solution - but I'm personally not fond of the pseudo shingle look.
Dang, you guys are talking about reframing the roof. To sister the rafters I have to remove all of the skip sheathing. Then we're talking about cutting in what are mostly valley rafters. That doesn't seem easier, cheaper, or more effective to me than just planing the plywood over the skip sheathing with shims, rips, tapers, etc. Maybe I just oughta leave the old shingles up there!
heh heh heh heh!
Like skids refered to, it all depends on what you can live with and how much time and money you want to put in to this thing.
I think that you're going to find shimming each rafter and having them all plane out is still going to be a pain in the asteroids.
Dave
You were the one wanting to haul the shingles off, LOL
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You'd put a new roof over those shingles? Even on your own house??
I'm not arguing that point. Like I said earlier, I can't see it from here, but I might, might not...
The point I was making, beyond a little good natured kidding, is that as long asyou are stripping the shingles and iut is only skipsheathing, and you plan to resheathe with ply anyway, if you want to do a staningseam roof, you need a flat plane to install it on, so you might as wellgo whole hog asnd do itallthe way right.
But fom the photo, I don't see too much sage to worry about.
I just can't see it from here.
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Gotcha. In my own defense let me say that I am in a permanently foul mood until I turn this puppy over to the painter. It's been 6 months + of very expensive foundation and exterior finish work, mostly alone, in the dark of winter, blah blah blah. Oh, and repipe the place, redo the gas, redo the road, etc. So, when I start thinking about going up top and ripping off the skip and adding rafters I get a little bit clenched. Yaarrgghhh!
Just went up in the attic for something else. The common rafters look to be about 14 feet long and have less than 1" of deflection in them, by eye, I did not pull a string. If I pulled the skip I'd have to do a lot of flocking around to install the plywood. The house was not built with precise stud or rafter layout, and applying any sheet materials is a headache. With the skip in place I could at least consider letting the joints fall where they may.
I can understand your butt tight puckered feelings about tearing it all apart. One more reason to stick with the original style of the house and shingle it.
Again, I'm not arguing. Just helping examine the options in the light of day
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If it's sagging an inch in 14' and you want to use standing seam then you will have to straighten them out at least to within 1/2" but even that would be noticeable.
If you just wanted to be done with it then I would deck it and put on some good quality architectural shingles to still keep something of a cedar shake look to it.
Out of curiousity I got a quote from a roofer--$9000 for 26 ga and $11000 for 24 ga. I figure about 1700 square feet of roofing when the rakes are figured in, so that comes out to more than $500 per square, and that's if I strip existing and install the plywood. Before I moved to metal roof country almost all jobs would be comp shingles or torch-down, and a couple hundred bucks per square would usually cover it. Anyone subbed out metal roofing recently and is this in the ballpark?
Cheap for a good standing seam job with all the cuts in that place
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Any opinion on the 24 v. 26 gauge?
24 is far less likely to telegraph the uneveness. When I strarted, it was 24 and 26 ga availavle. now it ios 26 and 29 here. The 29 is barely serviceable, IMO. 26 OK over plywood but I like the 24 better over strapping on cold roof situations
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sounds pretty nice: do you have any current photos?
<taken the sidewalls have been re-shingled with alternating 5-1/2" and 2-1/2" exposures like the gables. So, we gots lotsa cedar showing now...>
I did some standing seam myself last season, and mine involved one valley, and one curved eave. Not too bad a job. First time for me, hands on, but I have been around a lot of metal work on roofs and walls.
You will need some tools you may not have in your kit today. If you want to buy my almost new Kett power shear, email me off the forum. It has the nibbler attachment.
One thing that would be a lot easier than sistering the rafters would be a purlin brace. Use a 2x6 on edge mid span and stud up from ####strongback catwalk below. Keep the studs up to the purlin no less than 45 degrees. The catwalk should be above an existing wall. Install the brace when the roof is stripped. Metal will only work on a perfectly flat roof. In your case I think metal would be a mistake. It does not match the style of the house. Arch comp or new cedar shingles would be a better choice for traditions sake. I think a hatch on the roof is an invitation for leaks. A ladder with a ladder hook would be just as easy and safer once you are up there.
How'd you get the #### in there...? What'd ya say?
Thanks for the comments. I'm not going to do any retro-framing to make metal work on this house. It's just not worth it to me at this point. I need to finish with it and get back to making money on someone else's house. Adding plywood is my limit.
Where I live there are tons of standing seam roofs on houses and farm buildings of all types, including plenty like mine, so although it might not be what you see every day, I see it all the time. Comp shingles would look like hell on this house, in my opinion. Shakes would look fine but wear out sooner, apparently about 20 years max from people here who have them.
It'll be cedar if not metal, and I'll find a way to incorporate some metal to keep the moss off. I've got a few more folks to talk to before deciding, and then I'll make a choice and that's that.
Where did you live? The weather here this winter has been very dry. Twenty miles away it's raining.