A stupid question for you folks….
I am trying my hand with some 25 gauge 3 5/8″ steel studs. What is the best way to cut these things by hand? I have an old pair of yellow aviation snips, and I can’t seem to cut across the web in one pass. I cut both flanges, fold back the stud across the flange, and then need to make a snip from each side of te stud to cut across the web. Am I using the wrong tool, or is it my technique? My cuts look ragged too. Do I flip the stud over, and cut with the open side facing me or the closed side facing me?
I must admit, I am not very skilled at cutting metal. Any guidence would be appreciated.
Thanks
Eric
Replies
Make sure your snips are still sharp...they do wear.
I cut the same way: both flanges, bend it back, then make a _slightly_ concave cut across the web...takes 2-3 snips to get it.
Do it right, or do it twice.
I hand cut my steel tracks & studs with a pair of large duck bill tinner snips, about 12" long. Got them at HD. Sears hardware should also carry them. Takes about 2 snips to cut across the stud.
Eric,
This is a good excuse for buying a new tool. Try one of the offset snips which are made by both Sears and Wiss. The offset keeps the mechanism from getting in the way.
Another tactic is to score a straight line with a utility knife across the web after you have cut the flanges. Don't use a razor knife for this. Then bend it back and forth five times and it will break exactly on the line.
~Peter
Hey Homer,
No question is a dumb question. The only thing dumb would be not asking the question.
I've cut thousands of studs. Make sure your snips are sharp and tight. Sometimes the nut holding the two halves together gets a little loose. Make sure it is tight enough.
When you are making your cut, hold the stud in one hand with the open (also called the "soft" side), facing you. With other hand cut both flanges.Then bend stud back so hard or solid side starts to fold back on itself. Then with open side still facing you make cut across bend area (crease line). This cut can be made easier by a simple little trick. Say you are holding stud with left hand, and making cut with right hand, as you start to make cut, slightly "cup" or bend flanges in, this makes it easier to get snips in to finish cut.
Remember to slightly flex stud back to original or when you go to stand the stud in place, the top of stud will be just a tad narrower than track and want to fall over. Just flex the little pig back out and it will be a nice snug fit inside top track and make placing your studs in track a lot easier.
To get good info in metal stud techniques try a Google under steel studs. Also USG has a great web site.
Be careful of the cut edges of the studs and tracks. These little pigs can have wicked edges, and more than once I have seen people lay open their skin to the bone from one of these (I did it once to myself-12 stitches across my forearm).
Good Luck,
Cork in Chicago
You are doing it right. As PM suggested an offset snipper helps. Yes the edge will be a bit jagged, it's not a beauty contest here.
Try some new tin snips....
aviation snips if ya wanna get picky.
I just picked up an extra set as my helper always ended up with mine in his tool belt .... at Lowes ... I think ... mighta been HD?
Anyway I noticed an exact replacement for my old pair ... then another pair for a coupla bucks more ...
more's gotta be better right? So I picked up the more expensive ones w/o even looking close ...
got back to the job and after making one cut I noticed this new pair had a smaller.. sharper ... tip ... the old one's were much more rounded.
The new one's are great. Get way into that little bend for a nice tight cut.
So mark the cut ... side flanges and the cross web ...
hold a speed square across the web and run a sharp utility knife ... or razor knife? ... to me they're the same thing ... across to score the cut line. Even after the blade quickly dulls ... just hold it at a higher angle ... it'll keep scratching ....
then nip the side flanges .... and bend back and forth.
The knife score really speeds up the process.
If you've got a whole basement to do ... get a metal/abrasive chop saw.
Jeff
Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Homer -
I'm not a pro at metal framing but I've done quite a bit around my place. I cut both flanges, as most people have already mentioned, then I fold it back a good 90 degrees, take my (yellow handled) airplane snips and cut across the web in a slight arc making it easier to get all the way across in just a couple of 'bites'. This means if the workpiece is on the right (I cut the concave portion on the left hand piece, I have to cut an arc in the work piece. But this part of the web contributes little strength to the stud in the first place and it makes getting the stud into the track a little easier. The pros here might frown on my cheating like this, though! (hehehe)
Most commercial framers will use a cut-off saw, even for 25ga studs. If you have an old chop saw sitting around, just buy an abrasive cut-off blade and, of course, a good pair of safety glasses.
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
Sorry to confuse you folks, but I had to change my username from HomerGuy to eskals in order to log in. Man, this Prospero software is really piss poor. Why doesn't Taunton wise up and realize that Prospero is used by virtually no one else. Most common seems to be VBulliten or UBB, and I have never had problems with them.
Anyway....Attaching drywall to the metal studs. When I land a joint and screw it down, do I land it on the open/soft side of the stud, or the closed/hard side of the stud? I seem to recall there being a preferred method. If you land on one side and screw in, then it can push the flange away, correct?
One more question. What kind of screws are you folks using? The ones I have are maybe 7/16", pan head screws. Advertisied at HD as being for metal framing. I've also seen some 'Modified Truss Head' screws, that had a nice low-profile head.
Thanks again
Eric
You're right that the screws can push the stud away from the gwb. So start high or low where the framing screw keeps the stud somewhat rigid to the track and gwb. Starting in the middle is the worst place, since the stud has the most flexibility there.
Do it right, or do it twice.
Hey ESKALS,
When you go to stand your studs up in the track figure out where you want to start off with on running your drywall. Say for instance you are looking at the wall in front of you and your are going to run your drywall from your left to your right. You would therefor have all your studs with the hard or web side on your right. You want the drywall joint to break in the middle of the stud with the first sheet of drywall covering the soft or open side of the stud. Then the second sheet covers the hard side. When you do it this way you get a smooth wall. If you don't you can get humps and dips in the wall. Like the previous post said make sure you start screwing the stud at the top or bottom so you suck the stud up to the drywall. Also it is also a good idea to put three to four screws across the field through the bottom track before you put any other screws into the drywall. This keeps the drywall from trying to walk on you. Set your drywall gun for a slight dimple. And remember not to get too close to the edge, if you do get too close you'll end up getting dog ears or little lumps of drywall pooching out to the side. If you do this either just cut the offending drywall chunk off or just smack it with your hammer and flatten it. Practice makes perfect. When you start screwing off the drywall remember to "address" the board. Keep your shoulders squared up and parallel to the rock, with the guns trigger locked on, just push the gun straight in with a slight shove, keeping your wrist locked straight. You'll get the hang of it fairly quickly although to be a true rocker (WHO REALLY WANTS TO BE?) you've got to be able to really rock and roll, dance like a butterfly and sting like a bee.
Have patience, get after it, and remember, you're supposed to be enjoying this!!
Cork in Chicago
Man, now you tell me I been landing the board wrong after all these years?
We always land the board on the closed (strong) side of the break stud. The screws at the d/w edge stiffen the open side of the stud enough that it won't roll away from the next board when it is screwed in.
Never tried your way on purpose, but if it is better, I'll give it a shot on my next metal stud/dw job.
Dave
Since you are a beginner, here's what I recommend. Get a 4 x 8 sheet of 7/16" OSB board and strip it into 4" wide strips of 4" x 48". Install the boards horizontally and leave the butt joint (the 4" end of the rock) right in between the studs. After you hang the first board, put the 4" strip on the back of the butt joint, leaving 2" of it exposed for for the next board.
Put one 1 1/4" coarse drywall screw every 6" a half inch from the end of the board and then another every 9" 1 1/2" from the end - do the same for the second board. This way you will get a flat buitt joint that will never crack.
If you leave a butt joint on a steel stud that is only 1 1/4" wide, you will butcher up the end of the rock and the boards are not held well since many times the screws are right on the edge of the board.
You can use any plywood that's left around even 3/8". You will see that's it's faster for you in the rocking and it's a much better job. Stagger the butt joints on the wall; that is, don't have one of top of the other.
If you have to buy a sheet of 4x8 OSB, don't worry about the $15.00 - you'll save that in labor time and never ever have a crack on the butt joint later on.
Scews are supposed to be at least 1/2" from the end of the board - when you leave the butt joint on a steel stud you don't have the space to meet that requirement. USG in the Gypsum Construction Handbook recommends leaving a butt joint in between the studs to "minimize butt joint ridging /cracking". A few guys have been doing it this way for years on end. The people who leave it on stud think they are saving time and money - well, that's what they think!
Try it both ways and you'll see the difference!
Thanks for the help guys. Its always nice to have experienced people that can answer questions about a particular project. When I was learning trim carpentry, I was very lucky to have a vetern carpenter show me the ropes. Now, through an electronic medium, I can get similar assistance.
I picked up a new pair of snips. For ten bucks I figure might as well. Definately a difference between the ones I had been using. The new ones are much sharper.
I also read through the USG Handbook for Gypsum Construction. Some interesting info there. They recomend framing inside corners with no solid backing directly behind the corner. They say to hold back your corner studs 2 to 6 inches and let the drywall form the corner. I can't say that I have ever done that, and I haven't had any cracking either.
Zano...I have heard of that technique before. I've never done it on any wood framed walls, but may give it a try on this project.
Eric
Edited 12/5/2003 9:45:33 PM ET by HomerGuy
Zano
Thanks for the plywood idea, I'm framing a office project in the next week or so & yes, I get to rock it!! The plywood makes a lot of sense, I can see already this is going to be fast & work great for the butts.
Also thanks to the other guys, a lot of good advice here.
PJE
Carpenter,
It was wonderful when OSB board was $5.70 per sheet, you could get a 4" rip for $..23 per piece, now it's about $.66 - but if you have OSB or plywood left on the job then use that. I know some guys out West who use 2 x4, but they are not straight. That 4" OSB board will never shrink like a stud does and it makes the butts perfectly straight. If you use drywall glue, apply a thin coat on the OSB and then use less screws - it's a super bond - like a double layer of drywall. Also, the butt is not a stud with forces and wood shrinkage acting on it. And further,..then if you want to finish a butt joint perfectly level and only 8 inches wide in 1 1/2 minutes e-mail me privately and I'll steer you in the right direction..just don't want to seem like I'm pushing a product here.
This method is particularly great on ceilings where the 2x10 or 2 x 12 joists shrink and move causing the butt to crack.
I had a basement job, the owner wanted to rock it himself, so I told him to use the OSB after he did one room because he was complaining how hard it was to match the boards on a steel stud as he stood them up. He misunderstood and the fella still stood the boards up and used a 7'6" long by 4" wide rip of the OSB and then he thanked me for this method mentioning how much easier and faster the rocking was. I finished it for him and the finishing was easier as the boards were even on the OSB.
Another trick I picked up from a pro was to not screw the butt edge until the NEXT sheet butts to it..keeps the chunks from squirtin out the edge..
There are two kinds of screws used for drywall work and metal studs: "A" point and tech point or self tapping.
The former, A point has a point that's so sharp you have to be careful grabbing them out of the box to avoid poking your fingers. The tech point has what looks like a mini-drill bit on the very tip.
You probably won't run into the tech point drywall screws at your local big box store in anything but the framing screws. Most of them around here only sell the A point. Tech point screws are meant for heavier gauge studs anyway.
The trick I found, and I'm certainly not a pro rocker is to keep the screw perpendicular to the wall. Go easy until you feel it bite into and start penetrating the stud. Lock the gun on auto-pilot, take your finger off the trigger and hold it above the handle so your hand and wrist are more in line with the bit. Easier on your arm and wrist as well as easier to keep the gun straight.
...........
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]