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Modifying bathroom counter

| Posted in Construction Techniques on July 26, 2003 06:57am

Client has a bathroom counter made of ‘cultured marble’ that wonderful acrylic stuff.  This one has the cast-in sink bowls.  The counter is in good shape, but the previous owner spilled something in the sink that looks like red dye, and it won’t come out.  Also, there are a couple of small cracks around the drain.  So, HO has asked if the bowl could be replaced, leaving the counter intact.  The idea is to buy a drop-in sink, cut out the old one, make the hole the correct size for the new sink, and voila! a new look.

Please, let’s not get into a discussion about removing stains, or comparing vinyl siding with cultured marble, etc.  What are the ramifications in doing the above?  Assuming that the new sink is the right size, is it as simple as using the template to cut the hole and proceed as if it were a formica top?  What would you cut the marble with?

 

Do it right, or do it twice.

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  1. User avater
    IMERC | Jul 26, 2003 07:49am | #1

    The sink in these tops seem to be an integeral componet for strength of the counter top.

    The drop in will cause the oringinal top to sag. The DIs' clamps will cause hair line stress cracks in the near future. As the top sags the clamps tigten.

    Still want to proceed? Cut the old sink out with an aggressive jig saw blade (a few) or even better yet a cut off blade in rt angle grinder. Prepare for a major mess. Best done outside.

    Jig saw from the top. Protect the top from scratching. Bottom cut with the cut off blade. Vibration is not a good thing.

    BTDT.



    Edited 7/26/2003 2:39:23 AM ET by IMERC

    1. Handydan | Jul 26, 2003 09:18am | #2

      Im thinking that you could probably glue in braces across the top to reinforce the counter, but by the time you are done a new top is probably going to be less expensive.  Cultured marble is not that expensive, if it is a size that can be found easily, or so I think.  If he definitely wants to get rid of it, cut it out and see what happens, maybe.  Good luck.

      Dan

      1. FastEddie1 | Jul 26, 2003 03:59pm | #3

        You're right that a new top is not that expensive.  This one is a seamless L about 5 ft on each backsplash.  But then the 4 splashes need to be changed (2 in back, 2 on the ends) as well as the two very large mirrors that rst on the splashes.  And then I have had problems in the past with either the splash removal screwing up the walls, or the new splashes being a little short (vertically), and then the wallpaper has a gap.

        Imerc, I have to disagree on the top skin.  I believe that the counter is poured in a mold, and the top is polished and buffed.  It's not a fiberglas top, like a boat hull.  It's about 3/4 to 1" thick overall.  Interesting point about the sag possibility...I don't think it will, but now you've got me wondering.  I had considered trying to cut the new hole with a carbide router bit.  And you are right about the mess.

        Do it right, or do it twice.

        1. calvin | Jul 26, 2003 04:14pm | #5

          I had a job a while back replacing countertops in the classrooms of a youth facility.  Previous lam. tops had blown up like a poisonous toad.  Had cultured marble flat slabs made up with sink holes already formed in.  Cab depth was 24" and length 38".  Installed SS sinks with clips in the tops.  Sturdy, no sag and no prob.em with clips.  If you can cut 'em out and the cast is not too old and deteriorating, you might have some life in them yet.  The cracks in the bowls are usually around the drain where the casting is thinnest.  But boy oh boy, don't envy you trying to contain the mess.Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.

          Quittin' Time

  2. nigelUsa | Jul 26, 2003 04:09pm | #4

    The night before next "big" trash day drive around and see if you can find a top. pick it up and spend 1/2 hour tring to cut it. I'm thinking conical blade for cutting granite with the diamond edge and large shop vac for dust collection. Before you cut find a sink that will fit.

    1. FastEddie1 | Jul 26, 2003 05:53pm | #6

      Nigel, the term 'cultured marble' is pure marketing hype.  No marble has ever been close to these tops.  They're all plastic or acrylic or whatever.Do it right, or do it twice.

  3. migraine | Jul 26, 2003 10:35pm | #7

    Take a grinder with a diamond blade and cut out the sink about 1/2-3/4" below the surface of the top.  A router with a splining bit works fine if you can get it deep enough in the edge. of the bowl.  What ever you do, make sure there are no sharp edges or saw marks.  This could cause a stress crack, just as in glass.  From you description, tou want a top mount sik that has a decorative edge, not a bottom mount sink.  Use silicone to clamp the sink to the surface.  You can also use a short bar clamp that sit on a 2X4 thjat spans the sink top.  The other end goes through the drain hole and then you thighten it up to only snug.  Clean the remaining silicone off.  Remove clamp next day and add a finishing bead of silicone along the rim.  No insert clamps needed to support the sink or keep it from moving around.  If needed, and I don't think it's needed, use additional supports under sink to keep top from sagging.

    I've done this exact procedure many, many times.  One hotel with approx 525 rooms.  We were doing 10-20 sinks a day, per person.  We did a light cleaning and the maids finished the rest.  The boss was getting $125 per retrofit.  He claimed we would get a good bonus, that never materialized.  But, he managed to buy a 45' power yacht not too long after that and said he'd take us al out deep sea finshing.  That never happened either.

    Oh yeah, use a shop vac to suck up the dut as you are routing/cutting/sanding.  That fine dust goes every where

    1. FastEddie1 | Jul 26, 2003 11:11pm | #8

      I understand what you are saying about the diamond blade or spline bit, but I don't understand why.  Unless the new sink is small enough to fit inside the old sink...

      Do it right, or do it twice.

      1. migraine | Jul 27, 2003 01:25am | #9

        Once you have cut out the sink, then you need to enlarge the opening to fit the new sink.  If you don't cut the sink from the bottom first, you risk cracking the top.  There is also a build in drain or a plastic tube connected to the overflow hole and then th=o the drain.

        Does this make sense or and I out in left field, again?

        1. User avater
          IMERC | Jul 27, 2003 01:37am | #10

          Only right handers are out in left field....

          Left handers are in their right minds....

        2. FastEddie1 | Jul 27, 2003 06:06am | #11

          Ok you're just taking out the bowl to reduce the mass of the falling object.  makes sense.  So if I put my slot cutting bit in my router, extend the bit (lower the motor) as far as possible and start cutting, that might do the trick.Do it right, or do it twice.

          1. migraine | Jul 27, 2003 06:36am | #12

            In theory, yes...In reality, uhhh, I don't know  :~)

  4. GUNN308 | Jul 27, 2003 08:36am | #13

    Do you live by your byline? do it right, replace the top and forget all the retro crap and mess and wasted time just replace and replumb and take a nap with the time you saved.

    1. FastEddie1 | Jul 27, 2003 05:21pm | #14

      Good point Gunn.  In this case, the house is for sale (they have an offer) and the client wants to make the repairs on the inspectors list for as cheap as possible.  So I'm trying to do an inexpensive repair the right way.  The drop in sink was their idea...if I can do it for less than the counter replacement, and keep it fropm leaking or collapsing, I'll comply with their request.Do it right, or do it twice.

      1. User avater
        BillHartmann | Jul 27, 2003 09:44pm | #16

        Since you have to cut it from the top. I woudl block up the sink from the bottom and brace it so that it will not move at all as you cut it out.

        That should prevent the stress cracking as you finish 3/4 of the cut.

        Or you could do something like sink cut outs are done. make mimimum cuts on 2 sides. Then put a board across the opening over those cuts and drop some wire down through the drain hole and tie off a cross piece on the bottom. Then finish the cut.

  5. User avater
    briankeith | Jul 27, 2003 08:34pm | #15

    Just finished cutting and fitting some cultured marble shower sidewalls and a tub surround and tub apron.

    The fellow that supplied the material said to use a "cheap" abrasive masonry blade. My boss didn't think that sounded right so went for a diamond blade. The diamond blade cut fine for about six inches, then got hot and warped. Luckily I had a $3.00 abrasive blade that worked fine.

    Then I used a metal cutting blade in the old sabre saw to cut the notches in the corners. Don't think it would matter what type, but this was a Skil Ugly blade. Worked just fine. Cut like a dream and no chips.

    View Image
  6. CAGIV | Jul 28, 2003 01:46am | #17

    Whats the cost of the new sink, vs. the cost of a whole new top?

    Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

    1. FastEddie1 | Jul 28, 2003 02:52am | #18

      Included in the cost of a new top would be the manhours for two people to remove and reset two large (4 ft wide x 3 ft high) mirrors, plus the four splashes, plus patching the wallpaper, etc.  But I don't have an exact cost yet of the new top or the proposed sinks.  Plumbing costs would be the same for either option.Do it right, or do it twice.

      1. CAGIV | Jul 28, 2003 03:04am | #19

        Thats kind of what I was getting at, just wondering if you figured out the total cost or replacing, and cutting in the new bowl.

        and I was also thinking from a personal perspective even if it was cheaper, if I would be willing to take the risk of having the counter fail at some point later.

        I'm guessing the mirrors are glued opposed to just on clips?

        4 splashes?  whats the shape of the counter?Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

        1. FastEddie1 | Jul 28, 2003 04:36am | #20

          L-shaped counter, seamless, 4-5 feet along the back wall (gues that makes the mirrors 4-5 ft).  Mirrors are on clips, but due to size will require two sets of hands.Do it right, or do it twice.

          1. CAGIV | Jul 28, 2003 05:34am | #21

            now it makes a little more sense, I was imagining just a standard counter and sink vanity.

            I'd at least have the customer sign a waiver stating you are not responsible for any cracks or sag that may occur due to removing the sink.Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professionals built the Titanic.

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