Hello all you UK BTers.
EDIT* We are considering the “Near London” area.
A few quick questions regarding the UK (and thanks for your previous responses to my other questions)
Average salary (hourly or annual) of a high end residential project/site manager?
Availability of jobs for site/project manager?
Average billable labor rate for general carpentry? (for example; I bill my guys out at $25.00 / hr laborer, $35.00 / hr carpenter. I pay laborers $8 – $12, Carpenters $12 – $18)
Auction off my tools and equipment and buy new over there? or ship it over?
Western style platform framing – do you guys even do that over there or is it mostly timber framing still?
EDIT* What exactly IS timber framing in the UK? Similar to stick framing, or is it mortised / tenoned, exposed timber rafter / purlins etc. ?
Main sources of advertisement for those of you who are self employed?
And in general… are the opportunities better/more available for self employed contractors or for site / project managers.
I know it’s a lot of questions – thanks for your help 🙂
oh, and one other question – how ’bout the log home scene over there? The USA is churning out approximately 20,000 – 30,000 log homes per year & that has been my business for the last decade.
EDIT* We think I can meet the HSMP requirements. This would allow me to work either for a company, or for myself.
Edited 3/15/2004 4:32 pm ET by petmonkey
Edited 3/15/2004 6:18 pm ET by petmonkey
Edited 3/15/2004 7:59 pm ET by petmonkey
Replies
I'm not a UK-er, but I spend a lot of time there. Re tools -- don't forget the obvious that the voltage is 220 in the UK. Best leave your power tools in N America.
Thanks for the reply - it was my understanding that most site work temporary power is 120 while permanent power is 220.
Auction off my tools and equipment and buy new over there? or ship it over?Power tools are twice the price in UK and choice is nowhere near as good as in US.Site voltage is 120 and portable transformers are available so you can use your 120v tools in the home.I mentioned before about site safety inspections on power tools and leads and some contractors moving to cordless tools to avoid the hassle and cost of this.
Western style platform framing - do you guys even do that over there or is it mostly timber framing still?
Very little timber framing at all -- timber is expensive and the tradition has always been cavity wall with block as the inner skin and brick as the outer.
Are the opportunities better/more available for self employed contractors or for site / project managers.
To be honest, the methods of residential construction are so different from US to UK that I think you'd have difficulty finding a job as a residential Site Manager. The busiest scene for the small contractor is what's called 'Jobbing building' -- eg., fitting walk-ins, adding a porch -- those sort of small jobs. There's a shortage of good tradesmen if you want to go employed.
how 'bout the log home scene over there?
It's non-existent.
What area of UK are you going to? -- because that makes a lot of difference.
IanDG
There's a shortage of good tradesmen if you want to go employed.
Ian .. even with a shortage ... is there enough of a shortage that an american could walk in off the street and be hired?
I know most places around the globe are protective enough of theri own that an obvious non-local usually has a tough time getting his foot in the door.
Maybe the fact they're looking closer to London might help? More diversity than the smaller communities ....
Jeff
(for what it's worth ... I try to spend as much of my time over there outside of London ... I got traffic and a crowded city 3 min away from my house ... give me a quiet country pub ... plus .. London seems to suffer a severe lack of good dartboards)Buck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
... is there enough of a shortage that an american could walk in off the street and be hired?
Yeah, I considered that as well. Then I started thinking about my hiring practices here. Sometimes I just wish for ANYONE that can do a decent job without being watched constantly. I wouldn't care if he (or she) were from zimbwe!
In fact, 2 years ago, I brought in an ex employee from C.N.Y. just because I couldn't find anyone here. Personally I could care less about the professed "Shortages" in the UK. I base my ability to find work on my marketing and sales skills. Cripes, around here everyone and their brother is a carpenter / contractor / log home expert. We're certainly not experiencing a "skilled labor shortage" here but I still manage to keep us working.
The same could be said about getting employment as well. Interviews are sales pitches as far as I'm concerned, although it's been about 14 years since I've been to one :).
Also, I'm still not sure what a tradesman is. I know electricians, plumbers & HVAC are trades, but is a carpenter a skilled tradesman? Is a remodeler a skilled tradesman? I'm asking the question in a technical sense - not to rile anyone up!
I question my "skills" all the time. After all, while I still do some framing, shingling etc. I hire guys to do most of it & I sub out the plumbing, heating, HVAC, drywall. Just doing all the non-production work seems like a full time job. So, I guess I'm not really a skilled tradesman at all!
Hmmm - kind of a humbling thought. All those guys I hire are worth more than I am :)
But anyway - I'll stop hijacking my own thread now.
In the UK, if the trade has an apprenticeship system then it's a recognised trade, but the fact that you haven't doesn't debar anyone from working as one.I worked for 25 years as a project Manager in UK on residential construction, among others, and my saying about differences comes from studying US construction methods over the past two and a half years. [Now if it was Australia you were going to, their methods are almost identical]
IanDG
Ian - are you currently working in the USA? If so, were the differences too difficult to overcome?
I also noticed you did some work in Saudi Arabia - was it too difficult to adapt to working there?
Edited 3/15/2004 8:16 pm ET by petmonkey
To answer your question simply -- I'm retired and my experience as Project Manager on, for example, hospitals in the UK matched the knowledge needed for my Saudi contracts.
To answer what I believe to be your point -- it isn't a matter of your ability to adapt to new conditions that is crucial, or in question. It's whether a UK construction firm would consider you to be a suitable candidate for Project Manager, given the difference in construction methods, safety regulations, employment laws and union negotiations. This isn't meant as a reflection on your abilities but on the importance of a Project Manager.
I'm trying to honestly address your options for employment in the UK.
IanDG
lanDG - Point Taken
I'm of the mindset that I can accomplish or adapt to just about anything, however, I had discussed some of the same things with my wife. A four year degree and 15 years of experience do not amount to much if I've learned all of the wrong things!
I'd go over, as you suggested, and get work as a carpenter, but I think I'd be taking a rather large financial step backwards. In addition, as I am attempting to enter the UK through the HSMP, I'm not sure that a carpenter is considered Highly Skilled. (Regardless of my respect for Carpenters)
Thank you for your input. I do appreciate it.
I found the same problem when I moved to Australia from Saudi -- I'd been in charge of multi-million dollar projects in Saudi but as far as Oz was concerned I might as well have been building mud huts in the jungle.
Your experience as Project Manager would count for the HSMP, surely? -- a carpenter's wage would be a step down but that would only be temporary.
IanDG
I'm presuming that all petmonkey's papers are in order but if they are, he'd find a carpentry job without any trouble at all [nationality isn't a problem] -- even in a country area, just by walking into a Job Centre [Employment Service].
There are also possibilities of working "on the black" -- especially 'Jobbing' if he hasn't got papers but you have to know someone for that.
It's a lot easier in London of course.
I've played pub darts since they were one piece, made from wood, with goose-feather flights glued on -- truly! I played for the Returned Servicemen's League [Veterans Association] in the Australia against New Zealand match when I lived in Australia.
I didn't think it was much of a thing in America -- never seen a dartboard in a pub in Montana anyway.
You'll find them in the pubs in the working class areas of London -- it's always been a traditional working man's pub sport -- dates right back to the 1100s when the archers used to play it with cut-down arrows on a target chalked on the end of a beer barrel.
IanDG
"Site voltage is 120 and portable transformers are available so you can use your 120v tools in the home."
But the plugs are different! In a couple of years I may be helping my daughter and son-in-law on a loft rehab in Scotland. Mostly trim, drywall, etc. Should I bring my power tools (drill, saw, dw screwgun), etc. or buy/rent there? What does a "portable transformer" cost?
This is a semi-hijack.
Yes, the plugs are different and a transformer can be rented if you only need it for a short period.
If I were you I'd bring cordless as far as possible.
IanDG
A terminology issue...
Here in the states, timber framing is practiced by Frenchy and Ted Benson. We understand what that is.
In the UK, timberframing there is the same as stick framing here.
Any other differences? Anyone?
Pet M,
My sister lives in the UK, so I go there on occasion. I'm not an expert, but it has been my impression that new construction is rare. On that side "Of The Pond" rehabbing old structures ON THE INSIDE is the norm.
From what I've seen, compared to here, almost ANYTHING flies. I've seen 20" 45 degree stairwells and bathrooms I doubt my cat could squeeze into. The "modern Euro kitchen" Ha Ha HEE HEE, Looks like a doll house kitchen.
As far as being employable, make sure you get your paperwork in order. Even though my sis was married to a Brit for well over a year, she couldn't even do volunteer work!
Jon