Mounting upper cabinets on wavy wall
I’m about to install upper cabinets in my kitchen, something I’ve not done before. I’m building my own frameless carcasses from 3/4″ Baltic bitch plywood.
The house is old and the walls and ceilings aren’t flat or square, but I want the cabinets to line up correctly at their faces. Here’s the best idea I have so far, and I’d like feedback:
I’m thinking of screwing rails (wood, maybe plywood) into the studs, 2 or maybe 3 rails the width of the kitchen, at the height I want to mount the cabinets. I can easily shim the rails so they’re perfectly flat and square. Then screw through the cabinet backs, and the rails, into the studs.
The primary point of this is to avoid having to shim each cabinet individually. I don’t have a hoist (just a couple big friends :), so I’ll be mounting the cabinets (all 9 of them) individually, rather than tying them together on the floor and mounting as a gang.
Any thoughts appreciated.
Replies
IKEA uses a steel rail/ channel and cabinet back bolt system, piece of cake to install and works well with off flat walls.
You got a couple of BIG friends?
Gang them up on the floor, brace them for lifting, use a temporary horizontal cleat to rest the gang on while fastening.
I can lift a gang of 8' of cabs by myself onto a cleat. Two other guys and you ought to be able to do the same. Have your screws ready in predrilled holes. Shim and tighten.
BTW, leave the adjustable shelves and doors off while lifting.<hint>
If you are going to do a rail why not throw in a french cleat?
I agree. I always use a french cleat where possible. Looks better, and installs faster. I'd also gang 'em together first-eliminate the hassle of shimming in place.
Expert since 10 am.
Ok, that's something I hadn't considered. I'd thought about a cleat, but figured I'd have the same shimming problems. But if I put one long cleat on a whole gang, it'd be much easier. Thanks!Along those lines, does the cleat go only at the top? And there's a similarly-sized spacer at the bottom? And you screw the cabinets into the cleat?
i think what the previous posters are trying to tell you is to mount a 2x4 to the wall with screws. make sure it is level(have a level line drawn before you pick up the board). then raise the bank of cabinets (already attached together) up and set the back bottom corner of cab bank on 2x4, adjust sideways, and screw to wall. after you have it attached you can shim and adjust, for level and plumb.
i prefer to adjust before i set cabs, i will check with a straight edge, laser, level and square to make sure i have the place where the cabinets will touch the wall within tolerances first (flat and plumb), then i make lines on the walls that are plumb for reference (end of cabinets), so that way when i pick the cabinets up and place them against the wall i can see from the layout lines if i am plumb, level, and square, i don't have to pick up the level or square to check, i already know.
everything that you can lay out ahead of time will save you, think about it, you already know where you want the cabinets to go, so you should be able to figure out where the studs are in relation to the bank of cabinets. lay it out, mark it, predrill, and have the screws started. then you get one helper (or two if its really heavy) to help you lift and slide it to the sideline....
then you just screw them off with the longest drywall screws you can find.
this is layout, the skills transfer over whether you are setting cabinets, cutting stairs, or pipefitting the fire sprinklers. the ability to think and prepare surfaces ahead of time is what makes you a carpenter, and not just a nail slug. you can teach a monkey to hit a nail with a hammer, you my friend are a human. give it some thought!
Good advice untill then you just screw them off with the longest drywall screws you can find.
There are any number of brands of a truss head cabinet screws that are far superior to a drywall screw.
Terry
yea those are really piffin screws ;>) I concur with the french cleat
View Image Official Jeff Buck Memorial Tagline "
Use cabinet screws (that's what their called) instead of drywall screws.
Drywall screws (aka Piffin Screws) aren't made to handle the weight of cabinets.
Thanks for the reply, and no offense intended, but I don't think that's what we've been talking about. Screwing a leveller into the wall is a good idea, but still doesn't get me around the issue of having to shim the cabinets, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.For single cabinets, not connected to anything else, I do use a temporary leveller and shim. It's a good way. For multiple cabinets, I'd like to setup the wall correctly first, so I don't have to shim post-install.Also, as other folks have said, drywall screws really aren't meant for this. Self-threading, washer-head cabinet screws are specifically designed for this job, and are much stronger, both in pull and in shear.
Randall,
I beg to differ, whether you shim the cab, installed gang style, or shim the cleats(french style or your own), you still have to shim.......so, assemble a run of cabs as suggested, pre-drill holes for screws, install leveling cleat, lift bank of cabs onto cleat(with help if needed), fasten at 2 or 3 locations to hold cabs in place, not tight just enough to keep them from falling away from the wall, then shim from above only as needed at the points where you are fastening to the studs, no need for shims any where else. Once you're fastened at the top, remove cleat and fasten/shim the bottoms. You can even throw a couple of screws in the bottom of the cabs to keep them from pivoting out from the bottom due to any high spots, but I hope your walls are flatter than that!
As to the drywall screws, you're right on the money, don't use them!
Geoff
wow, you mean you can't just use drywall screws for everything, they said that would be fine at the home depot.
amazing what you can learn here
you dont use drywall screws, you use specially designed piffin screws, $19.95 from Ronco. order before xmas and get a set of steak knives. They can cut through bricks and still stay sharp..
I quit making them after I discovered McFeelys
View Image Official Jeff Buck Memorial Tagline "
with a french cleat, you don't screw the cabinets to the wall, at all. they hang on the cleat, a piece of 3/4 ply ripped at 45* to make mating pieces.
one is attached to wall, the other to the back of the cabs.a spacer at the bottom helps.Expert since 10 am.
ya don't even screw the cabinets to the wall? what keeps it from sliding around?
i would still put a few drywall screws in there.
in all seriousness though, that is a great system with properly designed and laid out system, you just set the cabinets and your done.
y'know, at first i thought you had a serious question. then i knew you'd been around for some time, you wouldn't really ask this...maybe i need more coffee.Expert since 10 am.
i was actually answering the original posters question, when by reading his response to the first answers he'd gotten i tried to clarify it for him, i was being a smardas when i made the drywal screw comment, my feeble attempt at humor.
several people came back and said never to use drywall screws for cabinet hanging, some guy named piffin has the patent for that.
Here's an interesting technique I learned recently, install the lower cabinets first, knock together a long box the hieght of the backsplash, gang uppers together, drop on top of box, shim and screw at your liesure.
My cabinet guy does a variation on that. He has several carpet covered boxes in three or four common sizes to sit on the lower cabinets. Where there are no lowers, he has what looks like a couple of cat scratching posts that adjust. He gangs all the uppers, and then calls me over to lift then up. They slide easily on the carpet for final adjustments, shimming, or while he smokes and badmouths my framing.
Edited 1/27/2007 1:40 am ET by fingersandtoes