I recently watched a movie titled L.I.E. set in Long Island, NY in 2000. A character is a developer, and he gets in trouble for using aluminum wiring in new houses. He’s blamed for fires that break out because of the wiring. I’m skeptical about whether that would happen, but I want to make sure before I submit it as a goof to IMDb. Would new aluminum wire cause a fire if nothing else was wrong with the wiring? Was it available for house construction at that time? Would it be any cheaper than copper? Would an inspector catch it and flag it if it’s against code? Is it against code?
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Someone older and in the trades longer may correct me, but as I recall, in the seventies, when inflation wreaked havoc on everyone's wallet, finding alternatives to expensive products was the thing. Aluminum was cheaper than copper and many cheaper run houses and trailers especially were wired with it. Aluminum heats faster than copper and has a lower melting point. There were fires, property and lives lost and lawsuits. Aluminum wiring in housing is now illegal.
That is my understanding. The oldsters may come and correct as needed.
Well, here's what Wikipedia has to say: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aluminum_wiring
Because of the nature of Wikipedia, I'd like some confirmation
Edited 4/23/2007 12:25 am ET by Disputantum
IIRC there were several problems with Al, the most glaring ....... virtually no one knew how to terminate it.it was brittleIf you nicked it while strippng, the wire would simply break at the nick when you made a loop in itIf you accidently grounded a hot wire, the end would just vaporize......POOF ...goneonce you managed to get the stuff under a screw on a device, it would probably be overtightened and eventually fail...because the junk had no "springback" in it.also if you were thoughtful and did not overtighten , you could go back after dinner and re-tighten EVERY single connection that you had made-up before eating, because they were ALL loose...and you could do this several times on each terminationthe oxides that formed on the bare wire would not conduct, so connections began to heat up and fail.
BTW..the oxides began to form the instant you stripped the wire you had to go up one wire size due to ampacity problems , so #12 for 15A circuits and #10 for 20A....made for a fun day..trying to jam all those brittle #10s in the boxalso the practice of feed- through became real popular at this time, .... the only real problem with this ??
every device in a circuit would heat and burn up, sometimes if someone was observant they would notice the tell-tale scorching of the receptacle, or the plastic trim plate, and sometimes even the wall.sometimes, folks could even smell their house getting ready to burn downI had my very own near fatal experinece with the stuff. in a factory .but that's another storythe NEW stuff is supposed to be OK... I don't know
I will never work with it.again..but that's just me.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Thanks for that great post. Very clear and complete. Can we hear the near fatal story now?Bill
check your e-mail......
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
thanks mad, I was hoping that someone much wiser would chime in and learn me somethin'. I was a kid in the seventies and I remember much talk about it in the eighties when I got old enough to care to listen about such things. Honestly sounds like a living nightmare. If I had wood that acted like that (shrink from nails after you just framed a house for example and loosen the entire structure) I'd lose my mind!
wiser...?? who me?the 70s....those were great times
.....at least the days I can remember
hahahahaha
Oh yes the seventies, seems so far off now, troubled times in the midwest where the unemployment rate hovered around 18% most of the time. Only those who grew up in the seventies like I did understand when I say that I had had all I wanted of pot by the time I was in high school :)
.I tried it, but never enjoyed it hehehe.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Did you inhale???Did you EXhale???I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
I think inhale..........is that the right answer ?.
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
you have to both to get maximum enjoyment from it.so i'm told...I don't Know what I am doing
But
I am VERY good at it!!
Like he said. Only addendum, Al is stiffer so it has a larger bend radius, making it easier to damage during installation.
Remember when they switched over to copper-clad aluminum romex? That didn't last long either.
I heard about it ...but with the exception of exactly two homes, I never ran romex..only pipe. I liked working on houses, but was glad when I didn't have to do them anymore. instead, I opted for the peace and quiet of the steel mills....
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., wer ist jetzt der Idiot ?
Would new aluminum wire cause a fire if nothing else was wrong with the wiring? NO
Was it available for house construction at that time? in 2000, NO
Would it be any cheaper than copper? YES
Would an inspector catch it and flag it if it's against code? YES
Is it against code? In 2000 and today YES for interior resid. wiring.
Most problems occurred when Al. and copper were mixed or when "copper only" devices were attached to Al. wire. Different expansion rates cause connections to loosen up and then the sparks fly...buic ( carpenter who knows enough about electrical to be dangerous <g> )
Aluminum wiring is still meets code.The 2005 NEC has sevral detailed sections on the proper alloy and switches and receptacles for 15 and 20 amp circuits.However, I have never seen any source of #12 and #10 guage AL wire. And the CO/ALR rated devices are expensive and limited. And approved splices are also not comon and expensive.And with the history of AL there big resistance (no pun intended) to using it for 15 and 20 amp circuits.However, it's use is still common for service and sub-panel feeders.One of the big differences is that they have pressure connections (set screws) and not the binder head screw connections that switches and receptacles have.The Wikipedai article is fairly accurate..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm working off second hand info here. For my area, I've been told by electricians that Al., for interior res. work, isn't allowed. It is for service from pole to panel.
I'll go look at the Wik. article, thanks,
And while this has nothing to do with code, I have friends who had to have aluminum removed and replaced with copper before their bank would ok their mortgage...buic
Is it against code? In 2000 and today YES for interior resid. wiring.
Alumininum wiring currently meets code and is commonly used for service feed wiring (which is or can be interior wiring).
So it's not a code violation.
Here in the KC area, there are many houses wired with aluminum wire. As a pro handyman, I see it all the time. My understanding is that the local power company uses aluminum in many of their lines.
My take on it is that's it's 'different' than using copper and people don't treat it as such. I'm not aware of any local codes that restrict it's use, but, I'm not an electrician either. If you understand it's differences and respect them like any other electrical issue, you'll be fine.
I would guess that the movie is playing on people's fears rather than being based on fact. So, what's new with that?
Bob.
Girlbuilder has the gist of it. Aluminum was used a lot during the 70s. It caused a lot of fires, usually because the branch circuit wire would heat up. When aluminum heats up, it expands a lot more than copper. It also has little "memory", meaning that it doesn't go back to its original shape when it cools off. So wires trapped under screw heads would loosen over time and arc. Wires inserted in the holes in "back-wired" fixtures would eventually break and arc.
Aluminum is no longer used for branch circuits, though it's still used for service cables.
There are electrical outlets that are specifically made to render old aluminum wiring circuits safe. When a house has been retro-fitted properly, the wiring is safe. On the other hand, certain items such as GFCI outlets aren't designed to work with it. The electrician handles such cases by "pigtailing" with copper and using special wire nuts. I want to re-emphasize that this is for making an old system safe.
So. Your questions.
> Would new aluminum wire cause a fire if nothing else was wrong
> with the wiring?
No, but if the wrong outlets were used, a fire could easily result.
> Was it available for house construction at that time?
I'm not aware of any source of the 12-2 or 12-3 aluminum cable.
> Would it be any cheaper than copper?
It was in the '70s. Probably would be today. In 2000? I don't think so; Romex was pretty cheap at HD back then. But that's just the wire cost; the special fixtures used with aluminum cable cost over three times what regular ones cost, and the wire nuts used for pigtailing cost about $1 each. Doing the job "properly" with aluminum wire would probably cost more than with copper.
> Would an inspector catch it and flag it if it's against code? Is
> it against code?
Not as of 2002. The NEC still allows 12 gauge and larger wire. Now. In this neck of the woods, the purchaser of a house hires a structural inspector to check the place out before purchase. This inspector will usually open the breaker panel to check things. A developer would find it very hard to sell a new house with aluminum wiring.
George Patterson, Patterson Handyman Service
May 28, 1977, Ft. Thomas, Kentucky, 165 people died as a result of a devastating fire. The investigation was inconclusive, but, everyone involved blamed the aluminum wiring as the cause. The reason they could not decide the exact cause was because the fire was so intense that most
areas where clues are drawn from offered no help. This was the Beverly Hills Supper Club.
The 70's were a lively time.
Aluminum wire - at least, as used in residential branch circuits- very quickly became popular. Almost as quickly, the IAEI (the electrical inspector's group) began seeing a link between this wire and fires. Their monthly magazine had pages, every month, of instances where aluminum wire was associated with fires.
The aluminum industry -pioneering a tactic used later by the poly-butylene plumbing folks- was adamant that there was nothing wrong with the wire. It was improper installation, or improper devices, or untrained workers, or ... ANYTHING but the wire itself. The industry pretty much sat a 'standard' for proper installation that was impossible to meet, even under ideal conditions.
Despite their assertions that the wire was fine, in 1976 (I think) they re-formulated the wire. The new alloy was (and still is) claimed to be as wonderful as copper.
By then the damage was done. Aluminum wire is no longer made in sixes smaller than #6.
Even today, there is great debate as to how repairs are to be made to aluminum wiring. There is a lot hidden in the fine print for those 'special' wire nuts. Another approved brand of wire nut seems to limit its' marketing to Canada. The special crimps have enough hurdles in place, that it is a solution that is pretty much simply not available. A new type of connector looks promising, but remains unproven.
You can count on Hollywood to take the slightest thing, and hype the heck out of it. Special effects, and good acting, would have you believe that there really are warp-speed starships, talking pigs, and hobbits. Still, aluminum household wiring has such a poor record that it is a true cause for concern.
The answer to all of the above is "maybe".
"220, 221 whatever it takes"
“The richest genius, like the most fertile soil, when uncultivated, shoots up into the rankest weeds..” – Hume
LOL! My favorite line in the whole movie!
Forrest
Thanks to everybody for his or her answers. I decided not to submit the goof since there's so much controversy and confusion on the subject. Here's some music for you-all's reward: http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeu2jvc/degustibus/id17.html
Just don't use it inside your own home. My homeowner's insurance company was gonna charge me more if it was in the 1972 house I bought.