Our very old home is in need of some upgrades in switches and outlets–some of the switches are four and five-way. I know when I’m over my head, so I hired an electrician. One of the areas of concern was an outlet right next to a sink. I asked him to put in a GFCI, and asked him how he handled it with a circuit without a ground wire. Thanks to you all and some GFCI threads, I know enough to be a pain in the arse. I asked him whether he needed to place a sticker on the GFCI indicating the outlet is not truly grounded. He replied that with the GFCI, the outlet is actually grounded, due to the neutral wire connecting…..this is where he lost me…..somewhere to a ground. He said it now has an equipment ground–no sticker needed.
I asked him if he were sure, and at that point my DW told me to just let him finish the job. Am I splitting hairs here? Is he right, and is this just a matter of semantics?
Replies
He may have been splitting hairs with the terminology. Or he may be uninformed, to put it charitably.
In correct electric-speak, any 120 volt AC branch circuit in North America is grounded. That means that the neutral conductor is connected to ground at the service, usually the main disconnect.
In contrast, when most people talk about a grounded circuit, they mean one with an equipment grounding conductor, aka an equipment ground, or a grounding conductor. That's the "safety ground".
So although the circuit has a grounded conductor, it doesn't have an equipment grounding conductor. I think the electrician understood that you were talking about the equipment ground, and was either ignorant of what a GFI does, or just didn't want to take the time to explain it.
As you're aware, a GFI receptacle will work fine and offer shock and electrocution protection without an equipment ground. But it doesn't create an equipment ground.
You're correct that a GFI receptacle that doesn't have an equipment ground has to be labelled "no equipment ground", per the NEC and the device listing.
You might check to make sure that the electrician didn't "bootleg" a ground from the neutral. This is the exceedingly dangerous practice of jumpering the neutral to the equipment grounding terminal of an outlet.
A lot of people with a little knowledge think this is OK, because at the service the neutrals and the equipment grounds are tied together. A bootleg ground at an outlet is very dangerous, because if there's even a problem with the neutral (a break or poor connection between outlet and panel), the equipment grounding socket and anything connected to it--like the metal case of an appliance or tool plugged into the outlet--will be energized, possibly up to 120v, when it's turned on.
The insidious thing about this is that the circuit will work, and a simple plug-in tester will show that the circuit is O.K., and it'll work O.K., until the neutral is compromised. It takes either a visual inspection or a more sophisticated tester (like the Ideal Sure-Test) to pick up a bootleg ground.
Good luck,
Cliff
A very strong second to CAP's posting.
Your story makes me a bit nervous since he should not have been talking about a GFCI being grounded due to a Neutral wire going anywhere. Based on the limited information, I'd still be willing to bet that in your "very old home" there's no way that your outlet now has an equipment ground unless you had him run new conductors back to the panel.
Be safe. Check out that circuit.
You refer to "5 way switches" .... and want to argue over a sticker? The GFI alone is adequate. True there is no equipment ground, and technically the sticker should have been used ... but we're making a mountain out of a molehill. The NEC specifically allows for using a GFI where no equipment ground is available. It recognizes that there are situations where there is no practical way to add that ground. The GFI does not need the ground in order to operate. The way to test a GFI is by using the test button on the device - and not one of those little plug-in testers. This is one situation where a plug-in will not operate the GFI, even though the GFI is operating perfectly.
Do not use that outlet for your static grounding bracelet while working on the hardware guts of your computor.
SamT
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. [Einstein] Tks, BossHogg.
Edited 3/5/2007 9:24 am by SamT
Thanks all for your excellent ideas. I checked with both the electrician and his boss, and no neutrals have been bootlegged. They both realize it's a no-no.
I'm going to have him run a new circuit for the computer and peripherals--it will have a true ground conductor.
You are correct. Installation of GFCI does protect all circuits down the line from the GFCI but if you didn't have an "Equipment Ground" before you need to label all the outlets (three prong jobs) with a "no ground" sticker. It's CYA rules. Ground and neutral aren't the same although the neutral may be grounded at the main panel.
Get yourself another electrician cause he/she aint (sp) one.
Edited 3/6/2007 11:49 am by woodway