I have thought about going out on my own for a little while now and I just placed my first bid two nights ago. I mean I’ve done more than a few small weekend jobs for my friends sister’s ex-boyfriend’s dog’s neighbor, etc…Mostly windows, small stuff, so on and so on, all on and hand shake, a smile, and a couple of bills in hand, but I had always had a job with another crew. Now, I have no job, no-one above me to take the blame if things don’t go well, no-one to get a check from even if the job wasn’t bid right… enough about that though…I was bidding this job, my very first were I was sitting in a couples house in a button up shirt with a clip board, tape measure and a bid proposal sheet. They where very nice people, and I really don’t think my offer was out of line. BUT I musta had a knot in my stomach the size of a small watermelon. Does this go away? I don’t think it would sway me back into working for someone else either way, but still…
Any suggestions would me more than welcome, not just for this, but my whole first year to come.
thanks, bill
Replies
Best wishes and good luck and congrats on the first job, remember you could never have a second or third or more with out this one, just do the best job you can, get help where you need it, and treat the clients like they were family.
By the way this ought to make you feel better about what ever you bid price wise, when I was 20 I was working for an older women who bought houses and rehabbed them, then sold them for the gain, at the time I was making 10 an hour and a couple from across the street walked through the house when it was on open house, One day I was raking leaves at this house and the lady from across the street came over and asked who did the work on the house in specific the bathrooms, I answered I did, and its was true I had done all the work and she asked me if I would be interested in doing her bathroom, I said I would look at it and give her a bid, having no experience in bidding at the time I did the bid for labor only and let her pick out what she wanted for fixtures etc, she paid for all material, It took about 3 weeks after classes and weekends, I was and still am in college. I bid the job at $1200 in labor, it paid better then the 10 an hour I was making at the time but damn what a low ball bid, I came to find out later other professional contracters had bid anywhere from 8 to 10k, the materials cost her about 3500, and she got a lot of top end stuff she would not have got at the prices offered by other contracters, I cost myself about 4-5k I figure but looking back I learned a lot about bidding a job, what to put into a contract and how to cover myself.
Point is I'm 24 now still working for a local remodel company and in college, so my antidote might not mean much, but no matter how it works out consider it learning experience regardless. anyway good luck
Bill, the short answer is yes, the knot does go away but it will be awhile. The best advice I can give you about bids is to charge not only for your time, but your talent and overhead too. If all you do is charge X per hour you're going to be cheating yourself. Charge people fairly, do good (very good) work, and make a good living. Good customers will appreciate this, and they're the ones you want for a client base. As for the rest of your first year, lets just say it will be a learning experience. Put as much as possible in writing (and be specific) to protect yourself and your relationship with your customers. Keep appointments (or call), fix mistakes quickly, do what you say you will, and in general treat people well. Hope this helps a bit, best of luck... BUIC 1921
Ya know its funny when I did my first one I was careful not to charge to much. A while later I found out how much others were charging for the same things and now I wouldnt hestitate to charge what I think my product is worth. Sometimes I still think I charge to much but then I remember what some the other bids I saw n the past might be.
At Darkworks cut to size made to burn......Putty isnt a option
That tight gut comers from insecurity. It goes away as you gain confidence. Confidence comes from successfull completions and happy customers. Focus on that and eventually you'll have to work on humility instead.
In the last three weeks, I've signed three customers who, after hearing my rates, stated, "Well, everyone tells me that you are the man to have for this and that you are worth what you charge."
That warm glow feels better than that old gut pain on first calls I used to have. It seems like a unique coincidence to hear almost the exact same words from three different people when a few other contractors are talking like they are worried about the winter's work.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Couldn't agree with Pif more. The knot subsides slowly. The money has to be important when it's all a draft, on paper, in your head, but once the contract is signed, the only thing that matters anymore is whether or not this job is going to turn out well, make the customer happy, and add to your rep and client list. No advertising in the world is as valuable as a happy customer, and you can't buy it. You're about to learn first hand about taking risks and rolling with the punches. You'll lose your shirt on some jobs. On others, you'll sit back, look at the calculator and ask "how did I pull that off?" Doing the job you were hired to do, and a little more, has to be the forefront. If you get to where you're hiring subs, keeping them happy rates a close second. My subs, well, I'd say like me, but that isn't really accurate - respect me maybe is a little better. I lay out whats expected, we agree on pricing, we contract everything, and I enforce the "no snivelling" rule. I always pay them on time, and I expect them to do what and when we laid out. Standards start with you - how you treat the subs, how you treat the customer, and what you do sets the tone for what comes back at you from all sides. It's not a bad racket to be in, but I don't envy anyone in the first year. Its a steep learning curve, a lot of stress, a lot of bookkeeping and other stuff you're not used to having to do. The workload doesn't necessarily get easier, but you'll get better at it as you learn more and more how to make more time out of what you have. Good luck. It'll be good to look back on in a few years.
Thank you all for your posts and support...A site like this has made my desecion all that much easier. Having so much experience gathered in one place is a godsend for us younger guys, and has helped me out numerous times.
Bill
That "knot"....make it work FOR you. Every feeling you have inside yourself has a reason and a mission behind it. In this biz there are always knots...just like in wood. They belong there and have a purpose. If you were so cocky as to not feeling your stomach turn a bit then you'd probably learn very little along the journey. I've seen too many carpenters that were such know-it-alls and the quality of their worked showed....butchers with phrases like "can't see it from my house". You have a great attitude. That knot means "you care"! You'll go far, trust me. Have a wonderful journey...you're in a great and proud profession.
Be well
Namaste'
AndyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy is real right about that knot being good for you. It creates energy within. Learn to direct that energy instead of letting it cripple you and it will go to work for you instead of working on you..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
That post is the absolute best advice for this business you can have. If you dont mind me asking how long have you been in business?
Well, thanks for the compliment. I think my answer will be ambiguous. I've been doing what would generally fall into the carp / facility maintenance / woodworking categories all my life. Employed that way since I was 15, except for 5 1/2 years in the military, and even then I still did it on weekends and built furniture on the side and sold to pretty much everyone I knew. I took the independent plunge going on 3 years ago, so that's still pretty green by most standards. I have to give the USAF credit for professional development, though. I got tapped for instructor duty and spent 2 1/2 of those years teaching potential new officers how to be successful in their lives. A lot of the curriculum ideology started with successful civilian businesses, what worked, and of course had to also meld successfully with the innate differences in lifestyle which the military demands. It wasn't all marching and calling cadences. Time management, communications, problem solving, feedback & counseling. Thinking independently. I learned more in two years teaching that than I would have in a 20 year career just trying to do it. I was fortunate enough to learn it while I was still young enough to be able to put it to good use. It's about 90% applicable "outside", and for the most part yields good results. Thanks again, yours is the best compliment I've gotten thus far.
Hey Bill,
Welcome to the rockin' rollercoaster! Don't ever lose that knot, as it represents the strength of your integrity. A few pointers;
1- Be honest. Tell the customer everything. This communication is the single most important skill you'll aquire. Even tell them the bad stuff! That wood floor installer you hired just moved, probably to Club-Fed, and the other guy is $2000 more money!. If the customer knows all the details, they'll pay the extra most of the time,especially if you use "allowances" for stuff, and won't blame you.
2- Underpromise= Overachieve. Client perception is based on what they see you doing compared to what you told them you would do. If you think a job will take a week, tell them 2 weeks, and finish early or on time.
3- Find good help, and pay them well. A skilled helper you pay $14/hr, who cleans the whole job in an hour, makes you more money than a laborer you pay $10 who takes half the afternoon. Find the best, pay more than the competition, provide benefits as soon as your overhead coffers grow, and stress long term employment and growth within the company. Fire slackers and bad attitudes immediately.
4- Pay Subcontractors as soon as you get their bills, as they can do more to ruin your schedule than anyone. Same firing rule as above.
5- Quality. If you have a reputation as the best, you'll command the best prices.
6- Use that Knot! your gut is the only tool you have to avoid bad customers, and unfortunately, they will ALWAYS rear their ugly heads once in a while. Build something into your overhead for this.
Good luck !
Bill,
Just hire someone to place the blame on and your one step ahead of it all. cc
Goodluck and welcome! The "knots" will go away when you gain confidence talking to people. I was told to look people directly into the eyes when speaking to them. Always have a 3ft space between you and them; they call that a safety zone. When the people open the door take a step back first. Be polite, but always be direct. Be careful of changes and any changes, no matter how small, GET IT IN WRITING!!! Be sure to take care of your subs. Put craftsmanship at the TOP of your list, look neat (clean cut), wearing logo t-shirts sometimes helps, be a professional by never taking shortcuts (hackers). Carpentry is an honorable trade and a craft.
P.S. "Don't ever hit your thumb with the hammer when it's cold, it really hurts!" (LOL)
FRAMER (SCOTT)