Hi
I have had good luck so far from all you pro’s that I’m going to ask another question about my project. I am putting in two 7 1/4″ x 9 1/2″ by 20′ versa lam beams under the second floor joist in that little house that I have posted earlier in “roof framing for old house”. Originally I was planning to push it up against all the joist, box it in and make it look pretty but I am now thinking that the proper way would be to support the joists, cut them, hoist the beam in place and then attach hangers from joist to beam. Sounds easy enough but whats the best way to do this? How can I support all the joist while cutting and hoisting up the beam? I have three posts that will support the beam. One in the center of the house that continues down to the basement and one on each side of the house, sitting on the sill which is on the foundation wall. Right now there is nothing and the second floor is very spring so the main objective is to reinforce the second floor.
Replies
Method A:
build your self temp wall support under both sides of where beam will go. leaving enough room to work, assuming no extra load above that I don't know about 2' away should be good.
if you use 2 top plates for your temp wall you could go 32' oc ( under every other joist) with temp support studs which will sit on 1 single temp bottom plate. toe nail all studs. a single duplex nail on opposing side at top and bottom will be fine. on ceilings that are more suspect as far as load conern goes you could go 16" oc...but usually 32" oc works.
Method B:
use temp beams ei 4x4's 4 x6" or other and you then can use posts to shore up the temp beams for your temp support. you can use 4x4 posts or a built up stud packs, or go rent up shoring jacks which work really nicely. they are steel tube posts that screw left and right to adjust height.
once you are supported, cut out. leaving just enough play that the beam will slide into place without a huge struggle. at one end nail a cross block about 1" lower than the ceiling joist. you will need enough guys to on maybe 2 ladders to walk that end of the beam up into place with enough guys at the other end. at the other end you can either use simply a ladder to rest on at different stages of the lift or build some simple staging that will allow you to rest the beam as need as you beam goes up.
once the beam, goes up you will need to force it to the full height flush up. number of ways to do that. jacks...or simply studs cut to 1/4" longer than height of floor to underside of joists. wedge in place and forced vertical.
good luck
Great idea with the temp wall. I think that would work very well.
Don't forget that those joists are what is preventing the house from coming apart with walls leaning out under the load of the roof, so you need to have cables and come-a-longs in place before you cut them
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Nice catch!
Piffin,I've done this a million times and never used cables or come-a-longs before or had a wall move. How can the walls move out with the subfloor nailed to the top of the joists, sheetrock or plaster and maybe walls above parallel and perpendicular, or maybe no walls above? Also the temporary walls that are nailed to the bottom of the joists on each side.Joe Carola
Edited 6/13/2007 1:38 pm ET by Framer
Have you seen the style of house in the other thread he menbtioned?It is an old one, balloon framed with basicly nothing else preventing wall spread and they are already leaning out from roof load.The floor joists are hooked in five feet below the top of wall and there are ties, but high enough they are not doing much to hold it together.In modern framing with a plywood subfloor above, you might be right 90% of the time, but not on this one
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I didn't see the house he's talking about. With modern framing I'm 100% right though........;-)Joe Carola
Hey, on a good day, you're 110%, right?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"With modern framing I'm 100% right though........;-)"
I agree 100%.
When I read Piffin's post I thought to myself, OK now he has lost it!! But I too was not aware of the odd scenario.
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You doubted The Mighty Piff?!?!? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you.(|;>)SamT
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lol
hope he'll forgive me :P
I'd like to see the orginal post that is refered to - anyone got a link? View Image View Image
I think I would make sure the subfloor will be nough to tie the walls because I dont think joist hangers would be enough by themselves.My $.02, and you can keep the change.SamT
Praise the Corporation, for the Corporations' highest concern is the well being of the public.
In the other thread, I detailed to him how I used steel cable through the beam from outside wall to outside wall to tie it together.I would add that I did this in addition to th engineers detail which was only to rely on the hangers and the subfloor above.
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Alrightythen has a good description of what's necessary and, if you can get back episodes of This Old House, it's been done on some of their projects.
The process isn't terribly complicated, but you have to do it just right. Watching Tom Silva should make it very clear.
Maine Tex.
Just to folow up on Piffins advice, you probably should put a temp. wall in the basement directly under the ones on the first flooras well, if there's a "spring" to the second floor, it's likely there's a "spring" in the first floor as well....better safe then sorry and it's cheap insurance!
Also, since you know you have a problem on the back side of the house (with wall spread), you should probably address that problem 1st, before doing the beam.
Since this is a balloon frame house you should definitely follow Piffins advice and use cabling to prevent spread during the beam install......and I would be sure to double check your load paths to the foundation.
You might consider putting some ply wood on the second floor subfloor, running 8' length parallel with beam and centered over the beam secure with glue and screws, helps prevent spread of the joists that hangers alone will not.....they are designed for shear loading not tension. If this is not doable, you may want to put tie straps along the bottoms of the joist across the beam to the joist on the other side to tie things together.
Geoff