Have aluminum (one side surfaced coated black) inlayed (Yankee) gutters that have been installed (by others) incorrectly for they are leaking at the seams (where one straight 10’0 run section over-laps another 10’0 section). The seam where over-lapped 6-12†and a bead of clear silicone caulk was placed on the surface joint only. No problem in the summer/fall held the water. Once it got cold and froze then warmed up it started to leak (expansion and contraction of the joint broke seal?). There was a plastic coating over the surface of the gutter material that was not completely removed before installing and caulking, believe this undermined joint too.
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What is the best way to repair?
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If using caulk/sealant what type?
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Thank you for the help Jack!
Replies
clean off old sealant, and put on a tar thing that is is a squeeze tube. like a toothpaste tube. I'm not sure about your particular gutter, but post a pic and I'll tell you if i still thinkso.
Andy - not a gutter repaire man
It takes studs to build a house
It's not that common to use aluminum gutter in 10' lengths to line a Boston or Yankee gutter.
The more common and proper way would be to use a metal that can be soldered , so that the joints can be made truly watertight.
It's not that common to use aluminum gutter in 10' lengths to line a Boston or Yankee gutter.
Aren't you diplomatic this morning? Happy New Year, Walter.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Grant,
Yes diplomacy is my strong suit today.
Barack has asked me to join his team, so I'm practicing my skills here on BT.
Have a Happy and Prosperous New Years.
Doctor says I can climb back on the horse after the 15th.
Walter
while U and CU are here ...
do you know what kinda metal "tern / terne" is?
lotsa old "tern metal" roofs and box gutters here ...
I can spot one ... but I don't know what kinda metal tern is eaxctly.
a quick check on line wasn't very helpful.
and for what it's worth ...
gotta be at least 10 yrs ago my folks had their box gutters relined with a membrane.
looked like ice guard minus the granules ... and the exposed side had a reflective aluminum foil look to it.
they just cleaned the tern ... and stuck this stuff down.
one row of slates were popped and dimension shingles were slipped back in.
nothing is visable from the street ... was the cheapest repair possible ..
and it's help just fine since.
they did heat the overlaps for better sealing.
looked at something similar at the roofing supply last year ... supposed to be the "new and improved" version. I'd try it based on my folks house.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
" Terne is an alloy coating of lead and tin used to cover steel - the terne coated steel is also known as terne metal and often referred to as "tin" (get the Slate Roof Bible). You can still buy terne-coated steel at any roofing supply place. We do not use it because it's better to use terne coated STAINLESS steel (TCS), or copper, when replacing terne metal roofs. Both TCS and copper will outlast terne metal and don't need painted until they reach about 50 years (if ever). Terne metal needs painted immediately or it will rust and it has to be painted regularly. If it is kept painted, it will last a long time (90 years). The latest version of terne is called terne II. It is an alloy of zinc and tin (the lead has been removed for environmental reasons). The terne coated stainless is now called TCSII. It's available from Follansbee in Follansbee, WV. "
did some more checking ... answered my own Q.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I quit using terne when they took the lead out of it. At the time, by the time you figured priming and painting the terne, it was cheaper to use copper.
Now, I'm starting to look at terne again since copper's gotten so high. They've got a new product that is Terne II with a kynar finish on it. I just bought 350 sheets of it the other day to do a standing seam roof. It's got the advantage of a factory applied coating, but I can form it the old way and make it fit the roof rather than trying to shoehorn a factory made roof onto a structure it doesn't want to fit. It sucks when your roof plane is 20' 1" wide and the premade pans total out to 20' even.
I haven't started bending yet, but the stuff works nicely. I'll probably be able to bend three pans at a time (I do two with copper). http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Jeff, Thanks for posting the info. I have wondered about that term as well.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
all I really know about it ...
is when ya paint it ...
U go to the old hardware store ... and ask for "tern roof paint" ...
and they hand U a bucket and it's red.
then ... they remind you ya gotta mix it with linseed oil.
so U buy that too.
get up on the roof ... and mix ... and paint ....
and sweat ... because the linseed oil mixed in heats the heck out of it!
can ya tell how I spent a coupla summers as a teenager?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
gotta be at least 10 yrs ago my folks had their box gutters relined with a membrane.
they did heat the overlaps for better sealing.
Sound like modified bitumen.
It's like anything else. If a good craftsman that understands the system he's installing and the system he's installing it on and knows when and when not to use a certain product, it'll work for a time.
Built in gutters are a tricky animal. Some are oversized and can stand the size reduction that results from adding another layer of something to them. Some were sized margianally and don't work right when the second layer is added to them. And often, they don't get relined until half the lookouts and most of the gutter box has rotted away. So, a complete rebuild/regrade is usually in order. http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
the box gutters on my folks house are around 10 inches or so wide ...
maybe 3 inches deep ... with a good 6 to 8 inches up to the bottom of the first row of shingles.
not small by any means ... so lining with that material took away pretty much zero volume. Makes sense in those terms ...
also ... that wide / deep ... and at least 40' long on all 4 sides ...
bet the materials would add up quick.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I guess I'm a little late to the party! you and Grant have hashed it out pretty well.
In the old days I've used EPDM as a second liner to get a customer several more years before a true metal reline
In the old days I've used EPDM as a second liner to get a customer several more years before a true metal reline
We use EPDM scraps as a temporary dry in while we're working on them. I've had pretty good luck patching burst joints and small rusted areas with Geocel 2315.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
A lot of our old gutterwork in this area is old 26 ga. galv.thats been rusted and worn thru or full of pinholes.
A 6" strip of neoprene flashing rubber glued into the trough in 12' lengths and lap sealed at splices and terminations used to be a fix I'd do for some people as a stop gap measure until budgets would allow a complete metal job.
Geocel works great for the use you describe though.
Walter
Slateman is right. Copper or lead are the two liner materials found in most Yankee gutters. I've repaired many and in all the years of doing them, I don't think I have ever seen aluminum. Most often what happens is that the old gutters get relined with a rubber membrane roofing material or fiberglass is laid down on top of the original and it is then mopped with tar flashing or the like. The key to doing that is to totally clean the old gutter and make sure it is dry before you lay in anything new.
Of course the best repair is to clean the material and re solder it.
In your case I would look into getting a roofer (or you could try this yourself) to lay in a good durable rubber membrane to reline the aluminum, or you could go whole hog and get a tin knocker to custom make copper liners for you and install them. It ain't cheap.
Maybe Sphere will be along and he can advise further. He does this sort of thing.
Sphere has retired from copper work- he's back into arch. millwork again.
Have you seen this stuff?
http://www.guttersupply.com/file_area/public/File/CopperPlus.pdf
I'm considering using it as a price point option. It solders great and has a lower expansion/contraction rate than copper. About 30% cheaper. Downside's are 24" width maximum and low scap value.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Grant,
I've just seen advertisements for it - I haven't tried using any yet.
I wonder where erosion- corrosion wears away at the copper, how long will it take to see the stainless peering thru?
Another tool for the arsenal though. I haven't bought any copper since Aug.- whats the damage, holding steady or trending upward?
Walter
I wonder where erosion- corrosion wears away at the copper, how long will it take to see the stainless peering thru?
Doesn't seem to be an issue. The copper coating turns and seals itself, just like solid copper. Might be a problem with cedar above it, but copper always looks splotchy under cedar. You ever seen lead wear off LCC?
This stuff has been around a long time. I've found pictures of 70's era roofs done with it. I had some samples of it 10 years ago. It was prohibitively expensive until copper rose so much in the last couple of years.
Copper's been holding or even dropping some. I've been paying around $4.75/lb. I paid about $5.50 for a while. http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"
Grant,
Yes lcc wears off pretty quickly in certain situations. I wondered if this product would be similar.
I didn't realize it had been out for so long. I've got some sheet copper left from the Fall, but glad to hear it might be dropping some.
Copper is at 118. for a 3x8 16 ounce in central NJ now.
Thanks- that works out to about $4.92 a lb.
Walter
I don't think I have ever seen aluminum.
I'm guessing he had his cornice wrapped with aluminum and got a "while I'm up here" reline job with coil stock.
I've never seen lead used (done quite a few with lead coated copper), but that may be a regional quirk.
I've only ever seen one EPDM liner that lasted more than a couple of years. The outlets are usually the first source of trouble.http://grantlogan.net/
My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.
Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"