What’s the penalty for working without a construction permit?
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Replies
emasculation...
ouch..is that retroactive?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
yur in luck - in KY they just lock it down for 6 months...
"there's enough for everyone"
I asked a building inspector that because some guys were building
an addition a few doors down from my jobsite...He said all they do is tell them to go get a permit.
Here, it's anything from paying the permit cost to tearing it down and doing what it takes to make things like they were before...whatever that costs...be a Kurd<D>
Don't worry, we can fix that later!
It depends on what you are building and how far you get. It depends on the building official.
Building is 500.00 per offense .
Plumbing is 1000 per offense .
Electrical is 1000 per offense
H&A is 1000 per offense.
Working with out a state contractors license is up to 5000, but normally 2500 on the first offense.
The building offical can waive all penalties and make you uncover for inspection or tear it down in so many working days. Even if you are fined they can still make you tear it down. Of course lawsuits are common from property owners if they have damages, it tacks on to the above.
And ,.... a building official could say get a permit.
Tim Mooney
And it will also depend on WHERE you are located? What area are you talking about?
Could make a big difference where.
Arkansas. But it makes the most difference in the building offical. Its his jurisdiction.
Tim Mooney
You mean besides the embarrassment?
and the fines?
and the anger of the HO?
and the costs of delay?
and ulcer medication?
and re-build costs?
not much.
here, it goes something like this -
Stop work order while you apply for permit.
That can take anywhere from six days to six monbths to process, depending on what the situation is.
If your permit is denied for cause - say you could not have been issued a permit to do whatever it is because of setbacks or something - then you haver to tear down or modify to suit them
and the second time around, everyone is watching - because they now know you can't be trusted to follow the rules.
Oh yeah - there is a hundred dollar fine for every day you are under the stop work order in non-compliance - tho they can forgive you that one. If uyou bow and scrape, you get by with just the one day fine. Put up a fight, and you could really be looking aT BIG NUMBERS
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
If you really want to know then look under Violations in the Building code. If your current code is based on the IRC then it looks like the worst thing is a fine. But it doesn't say how much. I would expect enough to make it panful. Depending what you are doing you could claim that they are Emergency repairs and submit after the work is started.
As a DIYer, some time ago I asked the forum "when should I get a permit?" I got just about every answer available on the forum. After much remodeling/updateing so far, no permits, no inspections, no hassles (shhhhh, I just need to get past any statute of limitations on unpermitted work).
And before I get flamed by all the pros here -- I did "hire" a e-man to walk through and look at my work and keep me strait and narrow - that and I read alot. (plumbing leaks are obvious and inconvienent, but e-leak tend to burn things down).
If you were to experience a catastrophic loss to your structure or someone was injured in your addition, why would your insurance carrier feel compelled to pay the claim if unpermitted work was performed without proper inspections ?
I am playing devils advocate on this issue . Insurance companies are not in business to pay claims and any excuse to deny coverage can be used.
You may have built your projects 110% above and beyond code requirements. But how does anyone know that ? There are many people that without properly prepared plans or if in a jurisdiction requiring permits or inspections , put themselves and the general public in jeopardy by trying to do things that they have no business doing.
I've tried to think about that (that always sounds funny to me "trying to think" what? it hurt and I just couldn't go on), any how I don't really have a good answer. I've tried to build everything to 110% above and beyond code, I've taken lots of pics of the work in progress - but I know that pics would never win against a insurance lawyer. (Obviously, if I am doing my own work, I can't afford to pay a lawyer enough to win).
Is there a statute of limitations of work done? My only argument would be "it has worked fine, as designed, up to code, yadda yadda for X amount of time (1 year, 5 years, whatever), and was not the cause of the catastrophic loss. In my case, I am confident that I am doing safe, lasting work that is up to and beyond code. I tend to trust me a lot more than I trust any inspector )no offense intended to the inspectors on the forum) - I just have more at stake than they do(I sleep there along with my family).
Having said that, I agree with you, some of the folks shopping HD/Lowes should not be buying "anything deeper than paint" (the local building inspector's definition of work that would need a permit). What if the house next door burns up because he was doing dangerouse/uninspected work? After seeing some of what the PO did in my house, it is a wonder it had not already burned down
Thanks for all the input but it was not I who did not apply for ther permit. We just finished a large warehouse/office complex for this GC and started another one for him but I thought he had the permit..he works it real close. So on friday the inspector just happened to stop by and the electrician and us were told to stop work. As this job is about 3 months long (doing steel stud framing to 24'4" high, drywall, ACT, insulation and doors) I had nothing lined up for 3 months..just wondering if this will take a while to correct. The GC knows the officials as he and I finished a 110 unit hotel about 1/3 of a mile from this job a few years ago. But I did start a basement reno on Friday and only filed the permit today....it keeps the blood flowing real good! I''ll let you all know how long it takes here in NJ to resolve this!
"If you were to experience a catastrophic loss to your structure or someone was injured in your addition, why would your insurance carrier feel compelled to pay the claim if unpermitted work was performed without proper inspections ?"
Because I have not seen or heard of a clause that excluses non-permitted work.
I have ask and ask for such an example and now one has every found one.
In fact one insurance underwriter told me that they cover 'stupidity'.
I wish my company covered my stupidity, when I dropped an expensive tool two stories last week the only way it would have been covered was if was stolen before it hit the sidewalk.
I have heard of incidents in commercial and multiple housing where owners were being prosecuted for negligent homicide for unpermitted work or code violations.
Why would an insurance company cheerfully pay out losses for work intentionally performed without proper authorization ? Mr. Jones may we see the certificate of occupancy (which will show us this addition was safe to inhabit) that you must have received when you closed out your permit ? Or Mr. Jones we will gladly pay for your collapsed deck , that handfull of 10d nails should have been adequate to support your deck and your hot-tub.
My house is not 100% done it has all inspections, CO, permits. Insurance company keeps trying to cancel homeowners policy because it in not complete. If we had a disaster I would get about half of what it is worth. I can't raise the coverage untill it is done .
Should emergency personell have to encounter additional risks due to improper fire separations or fire blocking.
<<My house is not 100% done it has all inspections, CO, permits. Insurance company keeps trying to cancel homeowners policy because it in not complete. If we had a disaster I would get about half of what it is worth. I can't raise the coverage untill it is done .>>
Get a new insurance Co. Mebbe you saw the pics of my mess, insured for "construction" at a higher rate, till I moved in, then it dropped to a standard rate..even tho' I am FAR from being done..hell, I'll NEVER be done..I am insured WAY over what its worth, just in case I decide to hang it up and have an accident. {G}
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
>>just in case I decide to hang it up and have an accident. {G}
I'm keeping this in a file somewhere.......................I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
accidents can just as easily happen to YOUR file somewhere..
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations.
All right, You two! Back to your corners, fill out the forms, and come out penciling! No erasures below the belt, no whiteout behind the ears, and be sure to scale your drawings.
Let's have a clean permit file.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I'll bring the marshmallows!!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Interesting thread.
Let me pose my situation to all. In my town, a semi-rural middle to uppermiddle class suburb of Milwaukee, there are no records on file at town hall for any house built prior to 1970.
Back then you didn't need a permit, you just built what ever you wanted and it was legal. (you were supposed to build to code, but nobody checked, just like 3/4's of all the counties in WI still)
Now, we are "supposed to" get one to do certain work, but the officials are pretty lax on minor stuff (don't ask, don't tell, and they don't look, new construction is their bread and butter)
So why pull one anyway? I doubt any homes built prior to '70 are anything close to modern code, and there's no way for anyone to know what was existing and what wasn't. BTW, there is no such thing as a CO out here either.
WSJ
Sphere around here lately if you are missing pieces of siding or if sections of soffit are missing that's grounds for cancellation of your homeowners policy. The insurance companies are worried about water / mold claims.
I know what you are going thru on your house. Our last home started out as a tractor shed and barn. The building was 120 feet long it consumed most of my time and energy and cash resources from 1984 to 1999. It was a very nice home with a huge shop space . The last day we lived in that house the first floor was under 4 feet of water. If I rebuilt that house for a third time, we also had a flood in 1996, I would be living in it by myself. We cut our losses and moved to higher ground. I have learned the hard way what insurance companies will and won't pay for. I have been working on having a finished house for 20 years now.
I know you have no time to be bored when you have a project like yours. Hope you get your heat working soon . I have fond memories of frozen pipes and water on the floor that turns into ice puddles. It's not easy to thaw out a frozen house trap when it is 5 degrees below 0 outside and not much warmer inside. Good luck on your project.
Arrowpov, homeowners policies don't cover new home construction. For that, you need a "builders risk" policy. These are short term, one year max.
blueIf you want to read a fancy personal signature... go read someone else's post.
I had a builders risk policy on the house when I built most of it. I think it changed to a regular homeowners policy when we moved in. My agent has been reluctant to come over and photograph the house for our file records, because the insurance company may realize all of our siding is not complete and they may try to cancel our policy.
The 'stupidity" of the homeowner doing the reno is covered under most standard homeowners policies.
This means for accidental and sudden loss, not that it failed because of 'inherent vice'. Read: building defects. They are not going to pay to fix the improperly installed roofing because the HO was stupid and put it on incorrectly. It does cover the addition that caught fire and burned down because the elect. was done incorrectly or the damage on the ceiling from the leak due to the incorrectly installed shingles; but not the shingles or the wiring itself.
As long as it is stupidity and accidental, not just made to look that way to cover fraud.
"As long as it is stupidity and accidental, not just made to look that way to cover fraud."
Exactly. And it does not cover problems that are not covered by the basic policy.
For example, most policies don't cover damage from slow water leaks so the poor roof job would not be covered, just the same as if he hired a so-called pro that did such a bad job.
Nor do most cover structural faults. So if he cuts a support beam and 6 months later the house starts failing it is not covered.
Exactly.
Now the rub comes in when he sells it and the beam fails and the current owners insurer decides to seek reimbursement for the lossfrom the responsible party.
Or worse, if it's wired wrong and an innocent person is injured or killed in a fire and the judgement exceeds his liability coverage, if he has any.
To your orginal post Q- a bad reputation with the building department. I've pulled several permits in the last few years. I've really tried to please the inspectors. This week I turned in an application for a large addition. I told my wife to take a couple of dozen doughnuts in when you pick up the permit.
As Homer would say,"Hmmmmmmm D o u g h n u t s..............."
We issue a stop work order and if work continues, we take them to court
We charge double the building permit fee and if the work that has already been done is not up to code it gets repaired. If work is already covered, it gets opened up.
Depends upon the AHJ.
Could be torture to death or such worse punishment.
Could be a yawn and "Git the ^#*&$#(^$ outta my #^%#*% office, ya #^$#*%^*!!"
Could be fines and misery if you talk to the right person on the right day. I know I wouldn't try around Mr Mooney <g>.
on the other hand, had an inspector (footings) laugh at 10" of water in the hole on one end as he signed off on his inspection. I was not NOT the GC, just a flunky. But I do know that u need dry hole to pour. Glad I am not buying that house.
Well he got the permit this past Thursday..only a 6 day delay!