Replies

1. 
   pm22 | Jul 12, 2004 12:00am | #1

   You CANNOT place more than one white, neutral, grounded conductor under one screw in the neutral bar. [Unless listed by the mfgr.]

   Two green, ground wires are usually OK. So if this is a main panel, you might be able to move a green or bare ground wire to another ground wire hole to free up a space.

   NOTE: It is legal to make a splice in a panel box. For instance, in this instance, you could turn off the involved breakers, take off one of the other #14 white wires, splice it to your new #14 white wire and a short length of #12 white wire which you then insert in the recent vacated hole in the neutral bar. If using #12 guage stuff, then use a #10 pigtail. Solid connection of neutrals is very important. Select a neutral from a different phase if you do this.

   ~Peter

   Contents may settle during shipping but then we might just be selling you air.

1. 
   rjw | Jul 12, 2004 12:31am | #2

   >>NOTE: It is legal to make a splice in a panel box.

   FWIW, Different jurisdictions have different interpretations on that issue.

   "It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."

   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

1. 
   pm22 | Jul 12, 2004 05:41am | #7

   NEC 373-8. This is written backwards. "Enclosures .. for overcurrent devices shall not be used as junction boxes...unless adequate space ...is provided." There is usually room in a panel "less than 40%" of the space for a splice or two.

   Of course, in new work, this looks sloppy and unplanned but in this instance, this is old work.

   ~Peter

1. 
   rjw | Jul 12, 2004 07:35am | #8

   Thanks.

   A couple of jurisdictions near PGH just don't allow splices in breaker panels, most (all?) of them in NW Ohio do. (Many/most panels never see the shine of the AHJ's flashlight around here!)

   "It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."

   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)

2. 
   bake | Jul 12, 2004 02:49am | #3

   I will try a little different approach, some panels have accomendations for 2 wires under a neutral screw, older Westinghouse comes to mind.

   If your panel won't allow for it you can take a 2 wire circuit out of the panel and put it in a junction box near the panel along with your new circuit, from there you can run a 3 wire to the panel to feeed both circuits. Using the appropriate breaker(s) of course.

   bake

3. 
   DanH | Jul 12, 2004 04:06am | #4

   In some cases the box will acommodate an add-on bar.

1. 
   Sbds | Jul 12, 2004 07:57am | #9

   dear dan,

   to add a bus bar, how do I connect them together?

   d.c.

1. 
   DanH | Jul 12, 2004 04:27pm | #10

   Generally the add-on bus bar is used for grounds (and just screwed to the grounded box), in a box originally set up with a common ground/neutral bar. I think I've also seen one where the add-on bar had a jumper that screwed to the top corner of the original bar.

1. 
   BarryO | Jul 15, 2004 12:27am | #11

   My inspector will allow two wires under one screw if they're both the same guage, for 15A & 20A branches.  Mixing 12 AWG and 14 AWG on the same screw is a no-no:  in most cases, the 14 AWG ends up being loose.

4. 
   MrBill | Jul 12, 2004 04:07am | #5

   And dont forget that any outside recepticle must be on a GFI breaker.

   Bill Koustenis

   Advanced Automotive Machine

   Waldorf Md

1. 
   rjw | Jul 12, 2004 05:32am | #6

   >>And dont forget that any outside recepticle must be on a GFI breaker.

   Or (at least in my area) be a GFI receptacle or downstream from one on the load side.

   "It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."

   -- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)