Checked on a job the other day and having difficulty downloading the camera pics so all I have to work with right now are words.
Over a porch entry a very low sloped 6 1/2 by 14 ft roof that at one time had rolled roofing covering it but know is for the most part curled and deteriorated away leaving the exposed metal panels.
Something like 1×2 ft tin panels sitting side by side making the roof. Apparently they didn’t nail down the rolled roofing as there are no nail holes evident but there are a few tiny rust holes forming toward the eve on one or two of the panels.
I’ve never dealt with this before and was wondering what my options might be. Wish i had the pics.
Thanks
Edited 5/21/2009 11:19 pm ET by rez
Replies
You got ya a terne flat seam roof there. If you can get the roll roofing off of it, Geocel products are what we use to restore something like this. Gimme some pix and I can be more helpful.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I'll try again.
No problem with the rolled roofing as actually it's already gone with just bits and pieces laying here and there like maybe a square yard total.
Didn't want to touch anything until I accepted the job.
By Geocel products you're meaning specifically what?
Thanks
Geocel 2300 is the caulk to fill and nail holes, etc. 2315 is the brushable sealant for sealing around any metal patching you might do or just general coating. It is also a rust arrester. I've repaired some roofs like the one in question by riveting down patches of similar metal and coating over them.
We typically have the roof primed before patching. It's a lot easier to find holes after it's been prepped and primed. The a finish coat or two is applied over the patching.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Primed with what?
A specific Geocel product?
Primed with what?
Your favorite metal primer.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I understand.
Thanks
So the 2315 can be used over the whole roof as the final covering?
It's clear and expensive. Yes it can, but it's not necessary in most cases and it still needs final coating for cosmetic reasons.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
So the Geocel products are just used for the initial repairs
and then the finish coats are the final metal paint topcoats as with a SherwinWilliams product?
Sorta yeah. I been using the 2315 on MY rusted roof as I can afford it , last gallon I got ( ABC Suply) was 64.00$ about and rolling it on with a paint roller I got about 350 sq.ft per gallon out of it.
It dries to a slightly milky look, and Geocel ALSO happens to sell Top coatings that are pretty dang good.
I learned about this stuff from working with Grant all these years, we ( Dale and I) aways had a gallon in our work trucks, the stuff is almost magical.
I've not decided what top coat product or color yet, being as I am doing my roof as I have time and money..it'll be a while before I am done, but what I had done 2 summers ago is still looking better than the rust continuing. Even just the geo over the rust looks kinda cool, like an old roof fixing to fail, but still tough as nails.
Maybe I can fool the tax assessor.
There are many roof paint options, and I feel I want to stick with a geocel product.
BTW, it can be thinned with painthinner and makes an awesome ext. primer. I met the Rep. at a tool show, learned a lot about the prducts.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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So I could buy a gallon of a geocel top coat paint, thin part of it with paint thinner for a primer coat, then fill the tiny holes with 2300 caulk.
Followed by a coat or two of 2315 and then a final coat or two with the unthinned geocel topcoat and call it good to go?
Thanks
Personally, I'd skip that first step. I'd patch the big holes with a riveted patch, and caulk , then swab the whole thing with the 2315. Then Top coat with the paint.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Figuring those little holes represent a bigger weakness?
The brushable 2315 is rated for 1/8" and less holes. Anything larger gets the caulk, 2300. Or a sheetmetal patch.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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I took the job.
Sometime next week I'll do it.
Good deal. we'll walk ya thru it.
The Geocel products are the bomb.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Found a place that sells geocel products 10miles away.
Edited 6/5/2009 3:42 pm ET by rez
Can that Geocel primer/paint combination be used on wall surfaces ? Seems it could and IF I am reading this thread correctly it will stand up to Mother nature as a roofing product.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Thats what the rep. I was talking to was telling me. That thinning 50/50 with Min. Sp. makes an INCREDIBLE primer for wood or metal.
I believe it with all my heart, that stuff is awesome. If someone needed to recaulk or repaint over unpaintable sillycone, this is the real deal.
Looking back, I may have saved some $$$ on my roof, by thinning, but I was using the fibered version due to the extreme rust and soon to be holes , and my dormers are like 21/12 or steeper, so yeah as long as it's not runny , saggy thin, I'd go fer it.
BTW, It can be sprayed as well as brushed or rolled.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Edited 5/25/2009 7:05 am ET by Sphere
Do you prep the rust surface by a ligfht sanding and wipe down with paint thinner before the primer application?
be picking yer brain
Not on my roof, I didn't. But from the looks of your project, I'd hit it with a cup brush ( wire) on a grinder. Then get rid of the dust.
Blow or vac it, then tack rag with the same mix as the thinned first coat. Just thinner isn't sticky enough o do anything but make the dust wet.
Be wet here in KYSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Go easy on the wire brush and drill. You'll take what's left of the terne coating off of the steel. Scrap any flaking stuff off and coat with the thinned 2315/2310 or metal primer. I've done both and I prefer the primer which makes small holes easier to find. Then attack the holes as necessary. Apply a coat of 2310/2315 and finish up with a coat or two of finish paint.
The Geocel products are UV resistant, but not UV impervious. The patching will last longer if it's coated and it'll certainly look better. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Grant ,
To me that looks so rusted up I wonder if it was just galvanized to begin with and no terne ??
Is that possible ? Not that it changes the receipe for restoration .
Walter
so - what is to be done at the 'butchered drip edge'? - looks like the weak point of the system - "there's enough for everyone"
I suspect that drip edge was installed with the roll roof and is applied over the original. My guess is that it can just be removed and tossed.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
waitawaitawaitawaitawaitawaita minute now.
Vinyl siding and gutters added later will compound the issue of dripedge removal.
Yer saying I can't leave the drip edge as is and just firm everything up?
What that's just great. Now I head to the place 10 mies from here that the internet site said had the Geocel products and they were surprised to see there store listed on there.
Then they called the other nearest place on the site 20 miles away and it was the same thing, nada there.
So now the nearest is 35 miles away. If I go this route I think I'll call ahead.And now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
Vulcum...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Did they get bought out by another company?
In the supply house today I saw a tube that had the small word Vulkem following the larger name brand Tremco on the tube label.And now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
Tremco has always been Vulkum as far as I know...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
"Some days it's just not worth chewing through the restraints"
Same here.
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Different packaging then. Remembering using allot of the product a few years back that had the large word Vulkem as the label masthead.
The tube I saw had 'Vulkem' less than a half inch high. And now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
I don't know - can't tell from the pic. I've brought back terne that had a solid coat of rust on it - Hardly any sign of paint left.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Note to self:
"Well, here's another nice mess you've gotten me into."View Image
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Edited 6/5/2009 3:14 pm ET by rez
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Kind of reminds of when back as a teen I'd had a leak in an oil pan on the cruisemobile
and decided to wire brush it down and paint it in addition to the placement of a gunked screw into the rust hole.
The more I wire brushed the more holes I discovered until it was time for a new oilpan.
Guess what I'm looking for is advice.
Thanks all.
I told you not to get involved with that! - didn't I?- well, maybe not - but what you show doesn't surprise me - only one way out that I see - rip it off, replace the corruption, put a new surface down, flash - suppose you could cheap out and roll roof it - again - be good for 5-10 years - but I'm just a dumb farmer - I don't think you're going to paint anything on what's left of that roof that's going to last - "there's enough for everyone"
I see rubber in your future.
And I ain't talking galoshes or condomints.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Is it just bad where they cut the box gutter off? I'm guessing that's what's taken place. Install new drip edge, pop rivet the old metal to the new drip edge. Get a roll of terne or a sheet of galvy and pop rivet some patches where the metal is rotten. Apply Geocel.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
ya, that's the worse on the corner there. One other spot about midway also by the eve.
So poprivet new drip edge on top of the terne and rivet a full length piece of galvy all the way down the length of eve
and rivet galvy over those other bad spots, 2300 any holes, coat with 2310 then top coat?
Already bought the stuff so I'm going on thru. Just needed someone to tell me I'm not nuts.
Industrial alkyd enamel ok as a topcoat?
How far apart should the rivets be?
uhoh, seeyou invented nuts
Edited 6/5/2009 11:30 pm ET by rez
For rivit placement, you kinda have to feel it out for where the good metal underneath is, but about an inch and a half or two inches would be max.
Buy the Hitachi brand Hex shank bit /counter sink combo form LOwes, no10 or 12 both work. Now loosen the set screw and back the bit into the sink till only a 1/2" or so is exposed ( it won't break as easy) and in a hunk of scrap, something, drill and install a rivet...use an IMPACT driver, thats why the hex shank, its FASTER. Now ya have a rivet in a hunk of something, DRILL the rivet OUT and you will have a little washer like rivet scrap on the bit. Leave it there. That "Blinds" the sharp counter sink so you don't booger up the new work.
Grab a few replacement bits ( 1/8") while you are shopping, you will break one or two, or eventually dull one.
Once I started rivet drilling with the impact, I never went back to double ended bits in the drill, but if you grind a flat on a double ended bit, you CAN use them in the counter sinker hex shank bit holder. If ya don't grind a flat they will spin and back up into the holder.
I've been able to resharpen the bits with my angle grinder, just a touch on the spinning wheel , I even just use the diamond wheel if thats whats in it, or a grinding abrasive disc if thats whas in it.
A decent place for Rivs and riveter is Harbr freigt, I got my rivrter about 6 yrs ago ( red handled solid arms, not stamp pressed) for 6 bucks, and it has popped thousands of rivets...and a BIG box of rivs ( alum) is cheaper than anywhere else. Get 1/8" Shorts AND Longs, the longs can attach to the WOOD under the metal, yes, you can rivet sheet metal to wood if it is sound.
Hope that helps.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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heh
This is starting to read like an instruction sheet that comes with a purchased product showing you how to put it together with the line drawings of tools you will need.
You know, the ones that say to get a screwdriver and a hammer, and safety goggles so your eye doesn't get a loose piece of metal flying off the screw when turning it.
Time to stock up on 1/8ths. Thanks.
It's really just the best way I found to do a LOT of rivets, as fast as possible, drills are just too slow, esp when yer on a ladder, leaning way out, with one leg as a counter balance and you need to get a rivet in the downspout that you are holding with one hand, and the hole maker with the other hand.
Seconds count when you are in that kind of position, 20-30' off the ground. I even stick rivets in the unused nosepieces in the handle , like a speed clip...pre load the business end, and stuff the handle in the ladder rung hole so it's ready to go when the hole is drilled.
When Dale and I worked together, we'd switch out riveters w/each other, one guy would load the riveter while the other one drilled and popped..we were fast.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Went over there and tarped it today as 40% chance of rain. Not that it means that much seeing the shape the roof was in beforehand anyhow. Principle of the thing.
Gone to the point now where I realize it's not going to be a money maker so I'm just going to do it right and treat it as a learning experience.
Get in the right frame of mind and I might even enjoy it. Next time I come upon something like this I'll be ready.
Priced out a roll of galvy today and that stuff ain't cheap. Been needing a rivet gun for a while so bought an Arrow and some boxes of shorts to gear up the arsenal for the attack.
That Doud fellow might be just a farmer but he's a cool one.
Just a farmer -- didn't you see those sweet jewelry boxes he crafted ??!!!
well, in 120446.51 he even called himself a dumb farmer but I've met him and he ain't dumb.
And he goes down in BT lore as the first Fest sponser to make a live uplink to the show.
Luckily in faded out and didn't broadcast for a few seconds at one time when Gunner was walking by the cam.
Edited 6/7/2009 11:54 am ET by rez
So there is enough coating in the galvanized and terne to not be concerned using aluminum rivets?
Aluminum will be fine.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thank you sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman.
be Ripley's Believe it or Not
Edited 6/17/2009 2:42 pm ET by rez
Note to self:
That Geocel product is some good stuff.
How important is the fibered 2315 as opposed to the 2310?
Finding a place that has the 2315 is getting farther and farther away.
In the event Geocel isn't doable what are the other options open?
ThanksAnd now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
Put an .060 rubber on it and be done !!
Had to quit using them things when I got older.And now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
Not on you , put a fully adhered roof over that mess -- on top of 1/2" high density fiberboard .
Unless you're locked into a firm figure - quit messin' with #### and put a 25 year roof on that .
If I increase the work load and she agrees to it I'd be tempted to just increase the pitch, frame in a new roof and use matching shingles to the rest of the house.
And now he could feel it- that inevitable craving for cookies! It happened every time he left his firewall down. -Heck '02
Edited 5/30/2009 5:00 pm ET by rez
The fibered spans pin holes better so yer not plugging every little hole with a caulk gun.
2nd best options? New metal, rubber, or TPO or have Forrest give you lessons in seal-o-flex, he swears by it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
View Image
I used 2310 for 10-15 years before they came out with 2315. 2310 will be fine.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Had to download a the program driver for the camera off the web.
Looks like somebody's already butched the drip edge.
From what I see, it's save worthy. I'd coat the whole thing with 2315 after priming with a good metal primer and filling any holes with 2300 caulk.
Duane gave you good coverage advice for $ estimating purposes. Most roof supply outlets carry Geocel products.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
What you are talking about is flat seam metal roofing, which used to be used in a lot of low pitch situations. the metal pans have two adjacient edges folded under and the other two over (the corners have to be nipped off so they are out of the way to fold).There are sheet metal ribbon cleets folded into the leading seams and nailed to the roof deck. the seams hook together and are pounded flat and then soldered. You can make a model with paper to get the idea. Tin,copper,Terne,Terne-stainless and zinc can be done this way.
Go to the Slate Roof Central message board and Traditional Roofing Magazine by way of JosephJenkins.com to find out more.
Getting back to your problem, the porch roof probably leaked or they wouldn't have covered it.Funky metal is hard to solder so that kind of repair is a challenge.The minimalist method is to broom on barn roof silver tar paint and see if that works.You could become a tin Knocker and do it back the way it was.Fabral ssr16 standing seam roofing is rated down to 1/12 and looks great.then there is edpm rubber,1/2 lap double coverage etc. Good luck