I have one final question in regards to installing Hardi Plank siding. I’ve read confliction info in regards to nailing into a stud for butt ends. I believe it was a FHB or JLC article that stated it was okay to nail butt ends to OSB sheating only and not to worry about hitting a stud every time.
I have no experience with this product and am about to start siding a garage this week. I am relying on some of your experiences and comments – thanks in advance.
Mike
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Replies
check the jameshardie.com web site
Been there done that. Had a lengthy discussion on HardiPlank in a previous discussion but this last question remained unanswered and the FHB article by John La Torre makes it sound like it is okay to make butt joints between studs. Mike
I think its better practice to nail in the studs. When you do the siding, do pyramids. Measure from the corner trim to the stud just less than 12' or 12' if your that lucky. That is the first piece, then measure from the corner trim to the stud two back from the end of bottom piece of hardie, then for the third row, two back from the second course (four back from the bottom piece. Continue that up but don't do a piece less than 32". If your framing is 16" o.c. then the next piece on each course will be a full piece, if your wall is longer than 24' that is.
Make sure you use the right caulking, don't use something like Alex plus it will not work very well. I'm using big stretch on my house and like it so far, very flexible and water cleanup.
Hi DDay..thanks for the input. I have to agree, nailing joints on the studs is probably a good idea and that is what most of the literature states. I always like to check here because sometimes 'experience' tells a different story. The author of a JLC article on FC suggested not creating a 'pyramid' type layout but rather make it random (based on 16" o.c.). I can only assume there is no right or wrong way for this but only personal preference. As for the Alex Plus - funny you should mention that. I have 4 tubes sitting in the garage that I was going to use. Who makes Big Stretch?Mike
Mike, Big Stretch is a very good caulk, but I can't always find it here. I believe DAP makes a caulk called Sidewinder that works very well with F/C as well other siding types. Anyway, that's the one I've used a few times on Hardie and had good luck with.
I'd break the butts over studs. It's not that hard to do, and it's good insurance. Wouldn't you hate to find out in a year or so that breaking them in the field was a bad idea?
I also like the idea of slip flashing between the butt joints. I didn't do it on my first install, but after hearing about it here, we did it on the others. So far so good on that first install, but better safe than sorry. View Image
Speaking of Alex, the latest issue of FHB and its article on painting and prep, a pic show the painters using the cheapo Alex Painter's caulk on the exterior trim. Not in a million years, I wouldn't use that stuff on interior trim. Come to think of it it, I wouldn't even use that stuff on anything. I'd rather fill a joint with Silly Putty...
I just visited an Ace that recently opened in my town and Surprise! They sell Big Stretch! Only place in my area that has it, even at $5.79 a tube but I bought a few and can't wait to try it out, heard nothing but fantastic about it.
I've been finding Big Streatch at ACE hardware stores.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
I learned from mike smith in his adverse conditions thread that he uses Dap Dynaflex 230 on hardie.
If having a low wage work force was good for a country's economy then why hasn't Mexico built a fence?
Big stretch is made by sachco. You can buy it directly from them or a retailer. http://www.sashcosealants.com/home_improvement/products/bigstretch.shtml
The product dieselpig recommended is also very good and recommended for FC, only downside to that is that it is not water clean up. Its the best to use in the winter though, big stretch being latex cannot be used in freezing weather and the sidewinder they say is useable down to -20. Sidewinder by Dap is also sold under the weatherflex name at HD and Lowes, although they might be just using the sidewinder name now.
Also also second putting a felt or aluminum spline behind the butt joints, just as a back up to the caulking. 15 lbs felt works fine and its quick.
From what I could figure...Dap doesn't sell SideWinder in Canada (why doesn't that surprise me..) but it seemed like their DynaFlex door&window caulk had the same properties if not the same product under a different name.
Seems like the door & window caulks in general might be more suitable for the butt joints. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Mike
The trouble with nailing HP butts to studs is that the ends of the planks are relatively fragile and likely to break if the nail is placed to closely. And if you're using roofers, you can't angle them if you're trying to get some distance from the end of the board yet hit the stud. The heads don't sit flat, and you get a bulge in the next course. In my limited experience, I found a compromise to be best. That is, I nailed the studs in the field, but nailed in an inch or two from the butts. I don't know JH's recommendation, and would strongly suggest finding it out, but that solution worked on my house.
Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
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Hi Andy, thanks for the comments. That's why I tend to post questions around here, there is usually some little tip or pointer that doesn't show up in product literature that can make the difference between better & best.
Like I said (and another writer stated) in an earlier reply, JH states face nailing is required for any nailing NOT into a stud - so it is possible.
Yes, I was going to use my PC roofing nailer so you're points are well taken.
Mike
Edited 7/25/2006 7:08 pm ET by MG911
While we're talking about HP....I'm trying to find a suitable trim board for the corners and in my area there is a product made by LP called SmartSide which is a cementatious product. It comes in 1X4,6,8,10 boards as well as siding.
http://www.lpcorp.com/lpsidingproducts/lpsmartside/products/trimandfascia.aspx
Anybody ever use this product? I can't seem to find Azek in my area so I'm looking for any recommendations. Some articles have recommended Hemlock...this Smart board runs $1/foot for 1X4 so seems reasonable. Worst case scenario, I can get some of the HP trim boards and put furring strips behind them.
I'm also wondering if most of you install a frieze board? I was thinking of running the HP right to the soffit....
Mike
Mike, I don't know anything about the product you've referenced, but I didn't know if you know that there are other brands of PVC trim boards other than Azek. Koma is one and Zeltec is another that come to mind. If you'd really like to use a PVC trim board, maybe you could ask around about those other two brands.
As far as a frieze goes, I usually install whatever is called for on the plans. But I do prefer a frieze board of some sort, even if it's just a simple 1x3 or 4. I don't like the look of siding butted up to the soffit... in the very least I'd expect to see a ground or something there.View Image
Hardi also sells 1x4 and 1x6 maybe 1x8 although I havent used any larger than 1x6. I have ripped some down for battens on hardi panel installations as well as used it for cornerboards. They also make a fascia and soffit. I dont like to mix wood with hardi if not necessary.
For the corner trim, use 5/4. You need to the full 1" thickness for the siding not to extend out past the trim. For PVC trim, there is also Kleer which is similar to Azek. Just call around and ask for PVC trim. You could also get the sales rep for your area for those companies, he'll know who carries what.
Hardi does not require nailing to studs as long as it is nailed to at least 7/16 osb and face nailed every 12 inches. There is also a maximum exposure listed on the site. I only nail to studs in the field and nail butts to osb. Never had a problem. Edges can crack if nailed too close to end.
Yes...I agree. I wanted to avoid the face nailing for esthetic reasons but JH does permit nailing butt ends in the field vs. on a stud with the face nail option.
Mike
I am a Hardy Certified Contractor so I will add a few thoughts ...
First of all nailnig the Butt joints into OSB is just fine, Blind nailing is the preferred install method for James Hardie Siding, we use a trim nailer and face nail as needed to make sure that the Butt joints do not 'flap in the wind' and that is acceptable according to my Hardie rep.
HOpe this helps.
Thanks again for all the help - it is much appreciated! I'm anxious to get started and to try out the Malco FC shears..... They'll either be for sale on Ebay in the near future or tucked away in my garage until I can re-side the house.
Mike
Nice to hear from you MB. You sound like you might be smack dab in the middle of BBQ country??!
The Best there is! :)
Picked up a Traeger smoker this year and trying to become one with the brisket. I'm having much more luck with the pork shoulders and ribs but the brisket is going to take some practise - which is okay considering this usually involves a couple cold brewskis ;)
Mike