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Hi guys!
Which brand of door do you recommend? I want what I believe are “french” doors – two doors together that open, not the sliding type patio door. I like both doors to open, as in with handles in the center, not the kind where one has no handle, or is fixed. Is this all confused? Sorry!
The doors will take a beating from the weather – mucho sun, rain, etc., so I need to get something that will stand up to that.
Thanks for any info!
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*Hi Wolvie, Hwo have you been? There are many different makes and types of French doors to choose from. First thing I would do is decide if you want wood doors or insulated metal skinned doors. Divided lite or plain glass. There are even some that have adjustable blinds built into the insulated glass.If you glance through FHB Magazine you will find advertising from many door manufacturers. Request some literature from them and compare features price, etc.If there is a door plant in your area, visit them and compare what they have to offer. About a year ago I opened up a wall for a customer that's a interior designer and installed an all wood unit with side lites attached to each side. The unit came from the local door plant and took up almost 12' of wall space with side lights attached. Very nice unit. After I installed it I trimmed it out with some custom interior and exterior trim that blended in with the homes original custom trim and then got to add a walk out veranda to make the transition to step outside. Everything sure transformed the room from commonly drab to very elegant. Hope I gave you some help.Are you ready for cabinetry yet?
*Hello MDM! How have YOU been??I have been busy, and all in all, very happy! Thanks for asking!!Cabinetry? Well, probably a year? I have to buy the land to build the house... hopefully I will get that done spring/summer this year. Think you can work with the other Mad Dog? I think I've just about got him convinced to build my house for cost! (or, at least, I'm trying) ;-)Thanks for the info - what you built sounds like what I want.
*Ahhh. That would have been my problem with the first set, they swung in. Well Duh. As I consider it, I wouldn't do that in a commercial setting... sigh - hope I get better at this residential stuff!!I will check out Anderson, they seem readily available. Thanks!
*Just cannot beat Andersen for quality and ease of installation. I too installed the door unit and side lights and it has pulled us into the room --- we go there jsut to look out; whereas before, we avoided the room becasue of what was there filling up the opening.all the bst
*Wolvie - Marvin has a relatively new 'Ultimate' outswing french door. Keep in mind with your hardware setup that the main reasons to have an active and inactive leaf are (1) manufacturers now offer true 3-point hardware that depend on an inactive (flush-bolted) leaf for security and (2) with a pair of french doors if you have identical hardware the latchbolts / deadbolts conflict with each other. You can always have a 'dummy' hardware trim on the inactive leaf, or you may find specialty hardware to do more what you want. Just remember that with a pair of outswing doors the hinge barrels are on the outside and are therefore subject to corrosion and tampering. The tops of the doors take a beating too unless fully under an overhang, and you may also want to consider some kind of limiting stop or crash stop for when they get caught by the wind.Jeff
*wolvie.... And. would be my first cfhoice.. their Frenchwood series is a superior product..... i wouldn't recommend an out-swing though...when they're open.. they are out in teh weather.. and you have to contend with the problem of teh screens being in-swing..in our climate (your climate)..i would use Frenchwood in-swing with a pair of Larsen full-view storm doors..you gonna pay big-time ofr theis..also.. unless you have an overriding reason for the both doors to operate.. i would use a pair of doors with one fixed and a center hinged in-swing...this will simplify evrything.. you don't need as much floor space...you still get the same view.. your screening problems are less..your purchase cost is less...most people with pair of doors never open the pair after the novelty wears off....the foot-bolts/ head- bolts for the semi-fixed door are a pain.. the lack of security from the weather is a worry..if these are a second floor door think about the possibility of losing a ceiling because you went off and left them open and got caught by a summer rain squall....even a grand piano can go thru a 3 foot door... so think 2x about both doors operating....b but hey, whadda i no ?
*hey mike - thanks for the info - what does "gonna pay big time" add up to? Round figures please? I like the double for the X-Mas tree and the couch/furniture thing - always granting what you say about pianos as true. TIA
*hmmm - have slight overhead protection. Will look into this. Thanks!
*Wolvie darling- I have installed about six and a half million french doors and never had a single problem with anderson.That means they make a great door- or I have never installed one.I like anderson- bout all I use. Any door or door set will function poorly if not installed well- you knew that but I like typing...Fore! Just playing thru
*Anderson seems to be the consensus. [sigh] This room has skylights and a 22' high vaulted ceiling already - we spend quite a bit of time there - looks out onto the garden - hopefully, I can get a door to survive!
*well, well, look what crawled out from behind the wood work! ;-)It's all yer fault, hub!
*last Frenchwood we did was a center-swing double with fine-lite grills ( grills between the glass)this was a 9 ft x 6-8 unit (3 doors, center-swing, in-swing)$2000 to buy the door, $120 for the brass handle set, $85 for the sliding screen, if you add a pair of Larsen storm/screen doors , installed say $800 then add framing for the door, siding, interior trim, electrical work, maybe some flooring trim, a little plaster patch, some painting, a building permit, my lunch, a new copy of Fine Homebuilding to read at lunch...yada , yada yada.....nice door !
*It used to be my fault-I am turning a new leaf for a new millenium- Denial! Can't blame me I'm ignorant. (catchy ain't it?)Don't blame me cuz I don't care, don't blame me cuz I don't care, don't blame me cuz I don't care... it's all the manufacturers' fault! (Jeff Buck says he knows a guy that got rich running himself over with a lawnmower... I can do better than that!)
*Wolvie, Jeff mentioned Marvin, I would check them out . Marvin makes what you want, and I think their products are at least as good or better than Andersen. Those two are probably the best, in quality (and most expensive). I don't think you would regret spending the money for their quality.
*Wolverine,My Andersons have brass handles on each door ( primary and secondary), so opening both doors is really easy and quick. No reaching up and down to release the catches mounted in the astrigal ( edge of the secondary door). The latch mechanism on the secondary door does push the bolts into the upper jamb and lower sill plate for security. I have 4 of these units in my house. I did not want to save a bundle of money and install the $400 series that is found in so many up scale homes here. I wanted something I could not open when locked with my bare hands!Frank DuVal
*Pella makes an excellent door- outswing and inswing. Arguably the best. Also probably the most expensive. THese things always seem to go together. sigh.
*Just let me know when ya need that lawyers name and number! Swear to god, the guy's a millionaire and just walks with a slight limp! I do that already....and got nothing to show for it! Jeff
*Thanks to all - I see this will be done in say, Feb to save some $$$ ?
*Cost? An ambiguous figure, but you just never know how good a deal you'll get, eh?If you can get MDM up here, shoot, I'd love to work with him...
*Yeah Mad Dog, me too. Hey Wolvie, did you ever hear the song "You got the money honey, we got the time" ?
*Don't get the kind with the built-in adjustable blinds. It's too hard to see in at night.And before you go and get Marvin's doors, check out where he got them. I'll bet he got them from Anderson.
*yep! Even sung it a few times myself! ;-)as fer cost and the Dawg - well, we'll work that out! Don't worry Frank, you'll be okay!
*Maybe "Who let the Dogs Out" would be more appropriate!I'll be okay??? I am okay.
Folks-
I read through this discussion on brands, features, and prices for French doors. I've also heard good things about Andersen over the years.
I want to put in a pair of inswing doors from my living room to my new deck, though, and I want to match either the off-white trim on the exterior of my house or the brick-red doors around the rest of the house. Andersen makes only vinyl-clad (no painting) doors in bright white and various grays and browns.
Pella makes a red door I like, but people I've spoken to have said they've had nothing but trouble from Pella.
The local Home Depot guy says they just started carrying Caradco (now owned by Jeld-wen). Caradco makes an aluminum-clad door that comes in both off-white and red, has a 3-point locking system, good muntin options, and the same warranty as Andersen. Trouble is, I've never heard of them.
Anybody know anythign about Caradco or Jeld-wen? Any other ideas?
Don't know about their doors but thier windows are crap.
They're the low end of things on both price and quality. I installed one once, oops. Sometimes you don't know what garbage is until its in your hands. I've replaced a number of Caradco doors. Menards here sells them ultra cheap. You can get a slider 6-0 6-8 for about $300. That tends to make them popular with the crowd that does their home improvement shopping based on the flyer in the Sunday paper. I'll charge you more than that to put it in. The one that sticks in my mind was last summer "But we just bought it five years ago . . ." kind of seemed at the time to say it all without saying much. My 2 cents." Shoot first and inquire afterwards, and if you make mistakes, I will protect you." Hermann Goering to the Prussian police, 1933.
My understanding is Andersen cladding can be painted but with restrictions.I believe they will provide guidance on what colors(paint) can be used with different clad colors.Have an Andersen french on my new house.Love it.Nothing else I've seen touches it.Check their website.
Edited 3/11/2003 12:18:22 AM ET by speedy
Marvin will leave it behind in the dust and Anderson now has bought out KML for the high end market. Those doors are really impressive!
But I think there are procedures for painting the cladding on the Andersen.
Excellence is its own reward!
Come to think of it I looked at a house w/Marvin pkg.Impressive product,but where I live the price premium is probably 40%.I've sort of developed a taste for the high end,but Andersen was a stretch for my budget.After the fact,well worth it.
>>> "Anybody know anything about Caradco..."
We call them Carapco, need to know any more?
If the door in question here has both leaves operable, i.e., they both are hinged and swing, then the only door to get is the Andersen Frenchwood inswing double door, the "cladding" for which is actually pultruded fiberglass, primed and painted. It ain't vinyl. Not on any of the hinged Frenchwoods. Since Andersen does not offer a red, take it in its standard white color. When I was in the biz, responsible for product design and development at a firm that competed with Andersen, I oversaw the purchase, installation, physical testing, critical technical review, reverse engineering, endurance testing, etc., etc., of virtually everyone's patio doors. And we did it repeatedly, to make sure we kept up with design changes, ownership changes, material substitutions, etc. You name 'em, Pella, Andersen, Willmar, Leowen, Vetter, Semco, Caradco, Peachtree, Marvin, Eagle, and the list goes on. We did them all.
Since you were in the business, planning on building personal house in near future. Have used Semco windows in the past and they seemed far superior to the other ones you mention. Whats your thoughts on their product (windows and doors)Thanks.
I just want to make sure I understand. You are saying Andersen's doors are clad in pultruded fiberglass? Do some more research.... they are painted with what Andersen calls "vinyl paint" They can't find a way to clad a style/rail that wide and have it hold up. In fact only a limited part of Andersen's product line is actually vinyl clad but they advertise like it is the whole thing.
Re: Andersen. I have done biz with them, I know their top tech people, and have been in their plants. I have bought Frenchwood hinged and gliding doors, installed them, tested them, and taken them apart for complete engineering analyses. The hinged doors have composite perimeter frames, and the frames' exterior parts are pultruded fiberglass sections, snap-fit and adhesive-bonded to a wood profile. The pultruded fiberglass section is primed and painted on a paint line that is similar to one used for painting extruded aluminum lineals. It is not "vinyl paint." The frame has the finished f'glass to the weather side, and the wood to the inside. The "nailer" fin is a dual-durometer plastic extrusion, and its finned protrusion press-fits into a receiver groove on the f'glass section of the frame. The little "trip lip" part of the sill is also pultruded f'glass. The large astragal seen on their outswing Frenchwood is mostly a pultruded f'glass section, with the same paint job as on the frame. The exterior faces of the door panels of Frenchwood doors, both hinged and gliding, are wood, with a special factory-applied paint job. The Frenchwood glider frames have a wood core, run through a line that extrudes a close-fitting exterior shell of PVC ("vinyl"), and thus the Frenchwood glider frames, and those for the Frenchwood hinged, are quite different. Of all the major window players, to my knowledge, none other use a pultruded f'glass member for either frame or sash, for patio doors. Marvin has an "Integrity" line for which all the sections, frame and sash, are pultruded fiberglass, but I don't believe the technology extends into their doors, which are made in a plant very far away from their window operations.
As I said the door panels are painted! Until I see otherwise "Vinyl Paint" is an invention of Andersen's marketing department which appears to be better funded than their R&D which is largley stuck on 1960 technology.
TRADITION is a great thing.
Andersons seal and I've never seen a leak on 6x6 windows from 1956 to those I've installed in the present. Failed inner glass seals are the big issue in my book if that doesn't survive then what is the point.
As for the Vinyl. It holds up and you can order it incolors if you want to have the exterior match something else.
Maybe you want the risk of another brand. Jack of all trades and master of none - you got a problem with that?
No, I DON'T want the risk of another brand. I've heard nothing but good things about Andersen and would be happy to go with them.
Color is the only issue. I'll have to call Andersen about that. Their catalog shows only four colors and there doesn't seem to be any info on ordering others.
Pella is overpriced for what you get.
Caradco has a problem with the locking system. Because they often have a dummy lever latch mechanism on the non-operating door that's bolted top and bottom the screws for the strike plate that engages the operating door latch are shallow and easily tear out. People have a habit of jerking doors that have non-standard latching systems. Most of us grew up with a cylindrical knob or lever latch that locked with a thumb lock in the handle and secured with a separate deadbolt. The Caradco latches do the same but they only dis-engage by pulling up on the lever. Not a common move for most people who just want to get out the door. They eventually pull the strike plate loose. Most fixes are temporary. It's a chronic problem.
Anderson is fine.
Thanks for all the advice I got from everyone on patio/french doors and their makers. Without your help I might have gone with Caradco.
I ended up going with Andersen and I am quite happy. Yeah, they're white and my trim is off-white, but the doors like nice in place and won't have to worry about leaks, maintenance hassles, or other troubles.
Thanks!
In my neighborhood-about $1400 well equipped for a 6' french.Lots of options available that can drive the price up quickly.
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Hi guys!
Which brand of door do you recommend? I want what I believe are "french" doors - two doors together that open, not the sliding type patio door. I like both doors to open, as in with handles in the center, not the kind where one has no handle, or is fixed. Is this all confused? Sorry!
The doors will take a beating from the weather - mucho sun, rain, etc., so I need to get something that will stand up to that.
Thanks for any info!