| 31846.1 | |
| I am beginning to make preparations to replumb my 30 year old house, which was plumbed with low grade (I mean really low grade) galvanized pipe. I have already determined I will use Pex tubing, and have been prepared to invest in the Wirsbo expander to make the connections. Now I see a new version, which uses the Stainless Steel Crimping bands, (Oeitker or something like that) make the rings. This looks like a easier method for making connections in remodeling situations. Apparently 1 tool will set all sizes of connections. If anyone has any suggestions, I would appreciate any feedback. |
Thanks, Jim
Replies
I would consider expansion fittings superior, the fitting is stronger than the pipe. Crimp technology is old, and I think Uponor only added it because it's very common so the installers are used to it.
However, I can't claim to back that up with scientific analysis or anything. I bet a crimp fan will come in here and yell at me now ;)
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
I have been using Wirsbo Propex fittings and tubing for the last 7 years. I do all of the plumbing and heating installations in the homes we build. I have installed tens of thousands of feet of it, and I have never,ever had any kind of a problem with it.
I will not use any other method of connecting Pex fittings unless we are using Pex-al-Pex tubing. If the material is available to you, I would buy the expander tool and have at it. You can sell the tool for as much as you paid for it any day of the week on E-Bay.
You will find that system to be much more user friendly and convenient than any type of clamp or crimp.
If you are running Wirsbro pex-al-pex tube, what type of connectior would you use??
It depends on how you are terminating the pex-al-pex tubing. Is it transitioning into regular pex, is it terminating in a manifold, whatever?? Generally, you are using some type of a compression fitting made for the situation.
The point is...that it can't be expanded like the other Wirsbo tubing that you use with the Propex connectors.
I guess you answered that. Had my plumber do near boiler piping and I plan on installing a few panel rad on 1 zone, off from a manifold. What type and brand of pex would you reccomend?? Oxygen barrier needed.
I'm a true, blue Wirsbo fan....nothing better. You want hePex for your job. You may want to check with your suppliers and see if they will sell it to you. Some won't do it unless you are a licensed contractor or certified by Wirsbo. Others only care if your money is green and authentic!
Have fun!
if the water temps on those rads are getting high, Multicor might be a better choice than hepex.. keep the shape, keep expansion down. You can use either, but we lean towards PAP on higher temp emitters, and radiators can go either way..-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
I guess I would disagree with you on this one. How hot are we talking about??? I don't see any problems with using hePex in a situation like his. In fact I have never seen a system where PAP was run as the main supply line. Did you ever try unrolling a coil of Multicor and snaking it through a bunch of floor joists?? ;)
The different rate of expansion may be a factor when the tubing is snapped into a channel (such as Warmboard), but it is usually not a factor when the tubing is free to move a little as in runs to a radiator.
As you say, methods may vary from region to region. I can't believe how differently homes are built in different areas.
Definitely. when you work in different regions that fact really smacks you in the face!It's also funny how different preferences are. I have contractors who love PAP to death, and say it's easier in joists. And others, of course, who disagree. with radiators though he could be doing anything up to 180 or so depending on who's sizing the things and for what purpose. With hepex, thats what, 12.1" of expansion per 100' assuming you install it at room temp? I guess that's not insurmountable, but it would make me nervous. Then again I am not physically in the joists making sure expansion loops or what have you are present, so maybe it's just my CYA conservatism ;)
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-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
In my case I was leaning towards the PAP tube because.....I am only suppling 4 panel rads, all very accessable from the basement, not long runs threw floor joist or walls, could be seeing temps up to 180, but not likley, and I won't have to spend $325.00 for the tool, making only 16 connections. did really think of hard piping it, but I want to play with some pex.
Now my next project would be some floor warming in the 2 upstairs bathroom/shower, that would be a differnt story.
You both have gave me thing to consider, thanks.
PAP is not an easy material to work with. I wouldn't consider it "user friendly" for an inexperienced installer like yourself.
I could imagine a few leaks when the water is turned on.
The fittings are expensive.
Do your homework on the proper way to terminate the fittings before you tackle a project using that material. A lesson from your fitting supplier would be time well spent.
Be careful that you don't kink it when you are handling it. One kink and you throw the tubing away.
There are Wirsbo expanding tools on E-Bay every day if you decide to go that route. They usually go for about $275. You could buy one, use it , and sell it anytime you want. Every time they offer one, at least a dozen people bid on it.
I have to disagree ;) My clients don't typically find PAP any harder to work with than PEX, the stiffness has drawbacks, and has benefits as well. And while expansion fittings are cheaper, I would not want a house full of expansion fittings without an expander around so I can fix something if I need to. That washes out the cost of an awful lot of fittings.-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
Are you telling me that you would not buy a house where the heating and plumbing was done with expansion fittings unless they threw in an expander tool at closing??
You just said in a previous post that they were a superior fitting! I agree with you.
They are superior, but if I'm going to fill my house with fittings of any kind, I'm going to want a tool that works with those fittings on hand, if I'm a DIY-minded person.Of course I wouldn't pass on the house. I'd buy an expander!-------------------------------------
-=Northeast Radiant Technology=-
Radiant Design, Consultation, Parts Supply
http://www.NRTradiant.com
Of course I wouldn't pass on the house. I'd buy an expander!
Now yer talkin'...Now you've got to get Jim to buy one!
How many tools can you use indefinitely and then sell it at your original cost?
Have a good evening...at least we gave him something to think about! ;)
I didn't find PAP at all hard to work with and I ran well over 1000 ft of it as a first timer. I had never worked with any kind of pex previously. You have to exersize a bit of caution with it but it really wasn't all that tough.Tom
Douglasville, GA
Different strokes for different folks! You don't have to be a genius to work with any of this stuff...but you do have to be schooled in the proper way to do it no matter what method you use.
I took it that the homeowner was intending to do projects down the road where he may want to use aqua pex to plumb bathrooms etc. and could use his Propex expander tool for other jobs. He would love it so much that he would probably be out plumbing for his friends and relatives!!