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Discussion Forum

Planning a decorative fence

alexh | Posted in General Discussion on October 15, 2006 10:21am
Hi,

I’m planning to build a 15′ long decorative fence. I bought George Nash’s book which helped alot but I still have a few practical questions. The style I have picked out is a picket type with the pyramidal square pickets that are sandwiched between 2 rails (4 rails total). Some manufacturers call this Dover or Bedford.

My initial problem was finding the typical dimensions used so everything would be in porportion. I think I found the basics by looking at some prefab units on the web. They typically call out the picket size as 1.4″ sq, post size of 5″x5″ and picket spacing of 2 1/8″. My fence will painted white. Here are my questions-

 
1. Material – I have a made a few projects from construction grade redwood and it’s not easy to avoid the numerous knots. Also, the knots dull blades very quickly. If a knot takes up a large portion of a board the board is weak and it immediately devolps a crook. Clear heartwood runs about $8 bd-ft. I have read that there is a clear sapwood grade that might be better for this type of project except for posts of course. I also might consider cedar.  This is paint grade. Any suggestions here?

2. Pickets – I have a full woodworking shop so I think I can make the pyramidal pickets from 2×4 stock (after jointing) by using a stop system on my miter saw (I only need about 60 or so). I can see however that the slightest error will result in a non-symetrical pyramid. I have seen these pickets available on the web but I’d have to get it quoted for pricing. I’ll probably get the pickets quoted anyhow but if anyone has made these perhaps they can comment.

3. Rails – Are the rails for these type of fences typically 1″x4″ or so? My span is only about 5′ so I shouldn’t have much worry about sag. I believe they use a 5’x5″ post because the pickets (1.5″) + 2 rails (1.5″) will leave 1″ of the post proud of the rails on either side of the rails whereas a 4″x4″ would almost be flush.

4. Posts – As far as the posts can 5’x5″ posts be made boxed? If I use a pressure treated 4×4 I’m left with about 1.5″ for both side of the box which leaves no air gap. I could joint the 4×4 down to 3″ and use 1/4″ ply backing. Seems like boxing the post is a big advantage for both appearance and longevity. Is it doable at 5″x5″? I may chamfer the edges – are biscuited butt joints the way to go on the box?

5. Mortised -rails – I’d like to mortise the rails into the post or box. I assume that this is done more or less like any mortise and tenon? If I box the post I’m assuming that the mortise will be in the box part only or does one usually put backing between the post and box at that point to make it stronger? Glue with epoxy or const adhesive?

 
6. Installation – I will of course preassemble the rails + pickets. I’m trying to envision assembly with mortised joints and I’m thinking that the rails have to installed simultaneously with the post. Probably would require some straps to hold everything tight against a previously installed post. And of course extensive use of levels and string lines to keep everything straight. Seems like it could get a little crazy but I suppose if I dry fit everything in place first it should go OK.  This about right?

7. I’m going to plant around this fence so refinishing may be difficult. From what I can tell the ultimate finish is the CPES epoxy sealant followed by a oil based primer followed by a high end exterior paint. It seems like Pratt and Lamberts Accolade is one the best exterior paints. Any recommendations here? Flood Co. also makes some great clear penetrating coating but I don’t know much about their solid color coatings. Of course if I have to sink the redwood post into cement I’ll use CPES on that also.

Thanks and apologies on the length of the post.


Edited 10/15/2006 4:05 pm ET by alexh

Reply

Replies

  1. rez | Oct 20, 2006 04:12am | #1

    Greetings alex,

    This post, in response to your question, will bump the thread through the 'recent discussion' listing again.

    Perhaps it will catch someone's attention that can help you with advice.

    Cheers

    when in doubt add garlic

  2. andybuildz | Oct 20, 2006 04:37am | #2

    I'm finishing up about a gazillion miles of the fencing you're talking about.
    I even have a shirtload of pickets left that I made because I changed plans. Live near Long Island?
    Check out my website below the post. I think I have some finished picture in there in the Goose Hill Rd Project (my house). I'm a bit too tired to type anything out tonight so if you wanna call me tomorrow feel free. My numbers in my website. I'll be here all day tomorrow in the shop making more fences...ugh...I'm sooooooooo sick of fences!!!!!
    Be well
    andy

    Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

                                       

     
  3. andybuildz | Oct 20, 2006 04:47am | #3

    Here's a few more...
    and yeh...1x4 clear red cedar rails both sides top and bottom. Pyramided the tops of the clear red cedar 2x2's after cut to size in the template I made. Stained with BM oil problem solver top coated with BM latex solid white stain, Store bought tops w/copper.sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences sick of fences
    andy..ugh

    Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

                                       

     
  4. andybuildz | Oct 20, 2006 04:59am | #4

    See the three stacks of pickets. I'll have more than one whole stack left to sell. Clear red cedar approx 48" 2x2. At cost!
    Did I say I'm sick of making fences? LOL

    Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.

    http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

                                       

     
  5. ANDYSZ2 | Oct 20, 2006 05:07am | #5

    I would make my pickets and rails out of cypress and my posts out of treated 6x6 posts.

    My rails would be a full 1 1/2" thick with the pickets being the same thickness.

    The Cabot solid color stain did real well on the last deck I did.

    Making everthing and tenoning it all then assembly then fixing it into the ground can get pretty hectic but doable. If you plan to use concrete I would dry pour the first 8-10 inches of the hole tamping and leveling as I went then mixing and pouring the last in. The dry tamping will lock everything up fairly well. The only problem I see is that replacing will be an all or nothing but maybe not.

    ANDYSZ2

    WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?

    REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST

     

    1. alexh | Oct 23, 2006 05:09am | #6

      Thanks AndybuildZ and Andysz2 (is this the same person?)-

      Appreciate the offer of phone advice, I got your website bookmarked so I'll wait till I have more concrete questions. Cedar sounds like the way to go, way easier on the saw blades since no knots.

      I thought pressure treated wood did not take paint well - not true?

      You said you are tired of fences, I'm tired of trellises and lattice. I made about 32' of framed trellis from contruction grade lumber. I estimated that it ended up consisting of over 1000 parts and I had to get a near new WWII table saw blade sharpened after the project (Due tto the large number of knots which of course were culled out after ripping). I just couldn't bear to use the crap at the big box stores.

       

       

      1. alexh | Oct 23, 2006 05:13am | #7

        Here's the trellis-

        Sorry, first time posting pic see next post

        Edited 10/22/2006 10:22 pm ET by alexh

        1. alexh | Oct 23, 2006 05:21am | #8

          Here it is-

           

           

          Edited 10/22/2006 10:22 pm ET by alexh

          1. User avater
            MarkH | Oct 23, 2006 04:38pm | #12

            That's a beautiful trellis, but the retaining wall sucks big time.

          2. alexh | Oct 23, 2006 07:11pm | #13

            Thats' what happens when you get in an argument with your wife over a style or material issue. She wanted to go with segemented cement blocks (ugh) and I wanted a dry stacked stone wall.

            So I just made the ugliest temporary solution I could think of. She's on board with the stone now. This strategy often works but it delays the project tremendously.

            Any of you guys try this strategy?

          3. User avater
            MarkH | Oct 23, 2006 11:10pm | #14

            Good deal!  Stone is much more classy, but more work for you. 

      2. andybuildz | Oct 23, 2006 05:30am | #9

        hey alex...no 2 different andy's. I'm andyC with the web site and sick of making fences. MAtter of fact I made more all day Saturday...echhhh.
        I think I have about six more sections to make...then install em'.
        Far as CCA goes...a BIG problem with them is they're gonna crack, split and check and look like crap in a few months so to me thats not even an option in my case.
        As long as the CCA is completely dry you can paint them just fine though...I just hate how the wood gets though like I said above so...
        Also...like I said...if you wanna buy some of what I have left which is A LOT feel free to email me or call. I'll give you a good deal on them.
        PS...I don't see any pic of your trellis work. Having a hard time posting them?
        Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.

        http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

                                           

         

        1. alexh | Oct 23, 2006 05:46am | #10

          Finally got it in the post previous to yours -

          So did you go with a boxed post or go with solid cedar posts?

           

           

          1. andybuildz | Oct 23, 2006 02:45pm | #11

            Solid cedar for most except the back porch. Lower back porch I made two extra wide.
            Fence posts i picked through Home Depots stuff for $20 per post. I routed a bead in the corners to fancy them up a little. Porch posts I used the lumber yard good stuff.Creation arises, is sustained for awhile, and then things change. That’s the dance.

            http://WWW.CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM

                                               

             

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