does anyone use copper anymore or is everthing switching to pvc?…….fred
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I will not allow PVC water lines in my homes, it's okay for drains but not water. I insist on copper. There has been too many class action lawsuits with several plastic water line companies. I'm currently tearing out walls to replace the water lines in a house in Petoskey, MIchigan. Hope I have been of help. Regards. Dale
Here in California where the plumbers union gave $250,000 to Governor Gray Davis' re-election campaign we have a no plastic allowed law. Anything is for sale at the right price.......Joe H
PVC DWV but not supply. Many are using pex but I still prefer copper unless your water is corrosive. Pex is cheaper to install and many people swear by it. I hope they don't have to swear at it 10 years from now. Only time will tell.
Pex has been successful in Europe for at least 15 years, if that's any indicator.
Yes and dryvit was used there for 20 yrs prior to coming to the states. I'm not sure how pex is used in europe and what type of fittings but dryvit was used on masonry or concrete structures there. In the states we applied it to plywood and gyp sheathing (all supported by the manufacture) and it has failed in many locations. Many blame installation pratices but if the product has to be applied perfectly and maintained perfectly you will have a problem.
No need to jump on me, all I said was that it has been used for long enough that it shouldn't be considered a new product.
Jeff
Wirsbo's crosslinked polyethylene (pex) has been under long term tests in Europe for approx. 30 years. But don't lump all pex's together, North American Manufacturers are relatively new in the pex game after there last product (polybutylene) fell out of favour. I personally use Wirsbo hepex for heating but still favour copper for waterlines. If I do use pex for waterlines I do homerun systems so all the fittings are accessible as the fitting is the weak link in all systems including copper.
I think PVC is fine for portions of DWV. I still like cast iron inside living space walls where water noise could be a problem.
For DHW, copper is still perceived as being the best by the consumer, though quality PEX, installed in homerun fashion, is making inroads with plumbers and builders.
I do think PEX will outpace copper in the future. Don't know how far into the future, but it's coming.
call me stupid but what is pex?..thanks fred
"PE" is for polyethylene, the "X" is for crosslinking.
PEX, for cross-linked polyethylene.
Not all PEX is equal, as different manufacturers use different methods to crosslink.
Also, some tubing comes with an oxygen barrier, which is good for some setups where you don't want O2 getting in and trashing cast iron components in the boiler. In an open-system domestic water plumbing supply system, for example, the O2 barrier would be somewhat useless. In a closed RFH system, it could be of value.
Wirsbo spends a lot of money on marketing. They also make a good product. As such, they're the most well-known supplier of PEX. Most of the upper-echelon PEX is pretty much the same...either O2 or no O2. Still, other manufacturers have made other PEX animals like PEX/Al, which has an aluminum core embedded in the tubing. It holds bends quite well.
Several of us have mentioned "homerun" plumbing systems. The idea is to have a main supply pipe which leads to a supply manifold. All of the supply runs come off that manifold and run, in one continuous piece of tubing all the way to the plumbing fixture. The idea is to have nothing but pure PEX in enclosed stud and joist bays. No joints, no unions, no compression fittings, etc. Essentially, no potential leaks.
Edit: Wanted to add one more thing...
PEX does have a little give to it. If copper plumbing freezes, it's likely that the copper will split. If PEX freezes, the PEX has enough give to absorb the expansion from the frozen slug of ice.
Edited 11/3/2002 8:44:23 PM ET by Mongo
Mongo,
I have a question about home run systems for hot water. If the manifold is a long distance from a bathroom, isn't there a problem with clearing all those lines for hot water to get to the fixture? If I run the lavatory with a conventional system until the hot water reaches the faucet, I have also brought hot water close to the shower (or tub). With the home run system, I have to waste the water in all runs. Any comments?
I was going to put this in my previous post...but as usual, I get a bit wordy, and I was plenty wordy already.<g>
From the main manifold, run a secondary hot and a secondary cold supply line to smaller hot and smaller cold water manifold located in the bathroom. From that smaller manifold you can run your supply lines to the individual fixtures...toilet, sink, tub/shower, etc.
With a little creativity you can make the manifold accessible via a hidden access panel, or by hiding it in the bottom of the linen closet. This setup will save you quite a bit of PEX as well. It's also easy to run a return loop from the smaller hot manifold back to the main so you can circulate the hot water in the "loop" for quicker availability at the tap.
Edited 11/3/2002 9:32:34 PM ET by Mongo