We are currently in the process of having our house built and our contractor is asking us what type of plumbing we would prefer, plastic or copper. He says that the price will be exactly the same, so cost is not an issue and he has no preference for which type to use. So is there an advantage to using plastic piping? Or should we stay with the traditional choice of copper?
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Replies
What kind of plastic?
I don't know if there have been improvements in plastic plumbing in the last 20 yrs but in 1984 we had a double-wide mobile home with plastic plumbing held together with crimped aluminum rings, and it was junk. Probably cheaper and quicker to install than copper, but the fittings would crack for no apparent reason and overall, I wasn't too happy with it.
My .02: go with copper.
Yea, there was a big class-action lawsuit a few years ago over that stuff, and it's no longer used. Supposedly, it was OK if used with copper fittings and copper crimp rings properly installed, but it couldn't overcome the bad PR.
I assume the builder is talking about sched. 40 PVC (CPVC for hot water). That would work OK. From a pure resale value aspect though, you should go with copper. Unless you're in an unusual situation, like well water with a high sulfer content, which can corrode copper pipes.
You need to learn about PEX. If CPVC was the plastic pipe in question you would be right.
The early DuPont fittings and tubing had bugs where air would seep through the tubing and cause water tanks (and other mechanical units) to rust out and corrode. I think they had a lot of problems with some of their fittings as well.
If you decide to go with PEX tubing, you should be fine. In terms of advatages, plastic tubing does not corrode, is quiet and is an insulator which means that you will have less heat loss for your hot water lines.
F.M.
"If you decide to go with PEX tubing, you should be fine. In terms of advatages, plastic tubing..."
uses fewer fittings, requires less drilling, isn't suseptible to electrolosis, doesn't require fire to fit joints...
Just like pipe replaced hollowed out logs, copper replaced galvanized, and ABS replaced cast iron, PEX is replacing copper. I wonder when we'll start hearing about soft drain lines.
You are way out of date pal.
WHW, I'm out of date, huh???? Well, OK, I probably AM. I haven't seen much plastic supply line at Home Depot (now now, keep the jeers down!) but then again, I wasn't looking for it.
know that for our recent Hot water baseboard system, they had to use plastic. Couldn't do copper because of needing to drill through existing basement joists, and the copper couldn't be threaded through each hole.
I'll keep my eye out for PEX the next time I do some new work.
GeoffH
I don't think that store you mentioned carries PEX, at least not in my area, but it's worth going to a plumbing supply outlet to get it. Also, it takes some special tools and a little bit of advice to learn how to use it properly, neither of which you're likely to find at H. Depot regardless of the ads to the contrary.
HD is not a viable supplier of PEX (OR). They do sell some PEX but it is crap.
joe d
Actually, there have been great advances in plastic plumbing since. I worked as a maintenance worker at aprtment complexes down here in N'awlins and the older stuff was junk and the manufacturers of the system had to go through and replace all of it. However, the choice of which to use will always depend on the availibilty of the products, and the nature of the installation, or of the application. I usually prefer all copper and brass installs, but what if the customer wants a whole house reverse-osmosis filtration system? that would corrode all the copper downstream, and cause it to prematurely fail. Builders need to look at the whole picture.
There are those who say that copper adds more to the resale value of a house.
I certainly prefer copper from an aesthetic viewpoint.
I try to avoid PVC when I can.
I assume that we are talking about copper supply lines. What about the drain lines?
First of all if the contractor is telling you theres no difference in price he`s praying you go with plastic so that he makes a nice fat proffit. There is a major cost difference, especially if your talking about an entire house. Not only are the plastic materials less expensive but the labor for installing copper is much greater than that of plastic.
As far as preference, I always choose copper over plastic for water lines. If you`re talking about waste lines I stay away from both as they are equally noisy. I suppose you can get away with plastic for the vent runs, but it wont save you a ton of money.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
The debate for the domestic water supply material is between copper and PEX. Not copper and PB, PVC, or ABS.
Why? Because the only "plastic" that you'll accept for the domestic water supply in your house is PEX. Short for "cross-linked polyethylene." Why is it the only plastic that you'll accept. Because I told you so.<g>
If you go with PEX, since it's an open system you don't need the oxygen barrier.
If you go with PEX, use a PEX that's cross-linked using the andy Engel method of cross-linking. There are a couple out there, but Wirsbo tubing is probably the best marketed, thus has the best name recognition and availability. Find out what brand of PEX he's using.
If you go with PEX, your installer will not put any unions in closed up stud or joist bays. Any PEX that goes inside of a closed up stud or joist bay will be continuous PEX. No fittings, just straight run PEX. Any fittings will be accessible, either down in the basement or from access doors near your plumbing fixtures...just in case.
So...if you choose "plastic" over copper, I'd advise you to write in the above stipulations in your contract. Since your builder was going to do things "the right way" anyway, all these little tidbits are probably already incorporated into his current methods, so it won't be a big deal for him to initial off on them in a side letter...right?
Simple.....copper!
now see if he'll do the DWV in cast iron for the same price as plastic! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
is that a quote from an old social distortion song?
And we have a winner!
song is.....Knockout.
ok...time for a new one! Jeff She's exotic ,but not foreign, like an old Cadillac......she's a knockout!
I agree with all those who said PEX is the way to go. I took me awhile to get used to it cuz there's something inherently beautiful about a really nice copper piping installation, all shiny, all the pipes plumb and straight..........aaaahhhhhhhh....BUT, PEX or something very like it is going to make most copper installations obsolete (IMHO). One advantage I didn't see anyone else mention is that it, unlike copper it seldom breaks when freezing since its flexible.
If your house is one more than one level, its a good idea to use cast-iron for the waste drops, since that's where most of the noise comes from when flushing toilets, draining tubs & showers, etc.
So WWW your reply is? PEX (engel)? and what for drains? The original poster was refering, I believe to supply? But your opinion on both is very valued. Is copper supply outdated? Cast Iron? Old Pro, not quite old, not quite pro, but closer every day on both...
OOPS! that would be WHW aka wet head warrior...
I just redid my house and my mothers with new copper and now wonder if it is better. I don't plumb myself (sub it out to licensed plumbers), except a few doors once in a moon.Old Pro, not quite old, not quite pro, but closer every day on both...
I'm a convert to PEX, which I understand they've been using in Europe for several decades without a problem. I'm located in the Pacific NW, and we use ABS almost exclusively for DWV. I'm a GC, not a plumber, but I use CI for all waste drops in 2 story+ work, whether the plans call for it or not. It's easily tied into ABS or PVC with rubber collars and eliminates about 80% of the noise.
I'm with you on cast iron, but unfortunately, we may be the only two left.<g>
I need to special order CI from my supply house these days...the supplier I use no longer stocks it, he says I'm one of the only ones that still specs it out.
I'm in New England, I use PVC for the vent, and a combo of PVC and CI for the drain/waste. CI for the risers and horizontals inside the living space walls, transitioning to PVC for the horizontal runs down in the basement.
I wish you had designed the plumbing system in my new (9 year old) house. It sounds like an army of drunks falling down stairs every time someone flushes an upstairs john. All drains and vents are PVC. I've had CI all my life and was quite startled the first time I heard that racket.
Be seeing you...