The past 2-3 weeks I had a plumber in the basement doing the rough-in. On Friday, he cut in the water feeds to the new lines. Now, my wife is saying that when she runs the cold water tap its warm initially and then after a time its cold.
I said something about the warmth of the home’s interior may have something to do with it, and as that water is let out water in the pipe from the cold street finally comes in. She looked at me as if I were nuts, and you know what? I am!
This morning we were in the master bath and she started running the cold water tap at the vanity. The vanities in this bathroom are separate, not mixed via a single knob. I stuck my hand under the flowing water and to my surprised it was WARM. This isn’t normal at all, and wasn’t the case before Friday’s cut-in of the basement lines.
Now, I do remember saying something about water pressure seemingly low and the plumber saying something a couple of weeks back about adjusting the pressure regulator to boost the pressure, but could this be the culprit? Seems illogical to me, but then again I’m no plumber.
Thoughts?
Replies
Did you get a new water heater, or was the existing water heater piping otherwise modified?
Sorry, i posted too quickly and decided to post agin with more information.
No new water heater and no re-circulating system in this house. BTW, I just grabbed my Fluke 62 Mini IR Thermometer and went and took some readings.
Initial water temp: 66ºF
Water temp after half minute 100ºF
Water temp two minutes 70ºF
I am bewildered. The basement heatpump is set to 66ºF and the first and second floors were about 67-68ºF during the day. Something has added heat to the cold water line going upstairs from the basment.
Consider this more of a bump than anything... I have to wonder if some kind of convection loop has been created that is pulling water out of the HW heater as the water system just sits there idle. I think they might have check valves to prevent that but really don't know. Too bad our resident plumber got the boot due to being too passionate about his political opinions - or at least that is what I gather happened.
Nuke- You said this happened in the morning. Is this repeatable all day long and at different faucets?
Oh yes. In fact yesterday afternoon I happen to take the opportunity and walk up to the kitchen sink and turn the faucet for cold water and got warm water out of it. Now, I have not had the opportunity to check this morning. So, let me go do that.
Update: Its still doing it. And naturally this only occurs on a holiday week and the plumber is out of town.
Edited 11/24/2008 7:46 am ET by Nuke
Maybe a little more putzin to eliminate the valve as suspect.
Get thou a bucket, turn off the main water valve to the house, unscrew the cap on the shower riser, catch water in bucket.
Have pliers ready, have wife or other trusted soul turn main on, quick with the pliers determine off for the valve (hold the bucket under the uncapped stub - or else).
If that works, no need to holler for water to be turned off. If not, holler real loud.
Teflon tape and replace the cap.
Got photos of the other ends of the tie-in? Make photo story for us following the new plumbing paths from start to finish. Might get a better handle on cause of problem.
Got my glasses cleaned, on and ready.
Had the same thing happen , that is only the rough in valve , once it is trimmed out the "guts"of it will be installed the actual valve assembly . what is happening now is that the hot and cold water are mixing in there and then hot water is rising in the cold water pipe. Good luck DAN
I think someone should ask the plumber why the hell he didn't install shutoff valves.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Most of the shower valves we use have built in screwdriver stops. Otherwise I would not expect shutoffs for a shower. We usually install shutoffs for the whole room when we remodel a bathroom, if there's an accessible space.
I don't think I've ever seen a valve without guts. What's the advantage of that?
If the valve in question has screwdriver stops the OP should use them to fix his problem. Otherwise he should call the plumber back and demand that he install shutoffs in some accessible location nearby.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
ToolFreakBlue, no trim kit or any other packaging was left behind.
Dan, I tried to reach the plumber via his home and cell numbers. I vaguely remember he saying something about being out of town this week.
From the knob side of the valve, look at the places where hot and cold come in on the left and right. See if there are screwdriver slots there. If so, screw both down tight and see if that doesn't fix things.If no screwdriver slots, insist that the plumber install shutoff valves.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
There aren't any stops that I can see. Some valves do not offer that option, but usually when I order a valve I have a choice of 2-4 versions, and one or more will have stops.
If Nuke is turning a valve stem, there is obviously a cartridge installed.
It's either open or the plumber fried the innerds.
I still would check to make sure you don't turn the water on by pushing and pulling the stem instead of twisting it.
When we get to this point in our plumbing, with water in the system, the lines have been flushed, the guts are in the manifold, the manifold has been tested to assure proper operation and then the cap(s) are placed to pressure test the system.
When the plumber gets back to top out, after all the finishing work is completed, all he has to do is make sure the valve is in the off position, install the bright work, squirt some water hot and cold and present his bill.
Just not sound practice to put the guts in later, find out the manifold might be defective and have to deconstruct a finished wall.
Are you sure the cartridge is even installed? The last delta I put in had only a cap to cover the chamber until the wall was finished. That would cause a mixing of the hot/cold.A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
I'm not sure at all. I didn't install it and certainly not about to go monkey with it beyond turning the knob stem.
Did he leave the trim kit at your place? If he did, open the box and see if the cartridge is in there.TFB (Bill)
What exactly did he do in the basement? Are these new lines hooked up to faucets, shower valves?
The rough in in the basement- did you have a shower valve installed?
If so turn the valve off, the problem will go away.
Right -- could be a shower valve, especially if the water never actually turns cold.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Yes, there is a shower valve installed. The 'head' is capped off as are the lines leading to future fixtures.
I'm going to guess that if I go turning the dial and it can turn in either direction then its no all the way on or off. I'll take a picture of it, too and post it here.
I think the shower valve is in the On position. There isn't a handle on it. Here are a couple of picture (front and back). When looking at the front of the valve the left-most vertical pipe is the Cold water line, the next line is the Hot, and the right-most is the shower head line.
The cold line is NOT cold, but very warm. The Hot line is HOT. Conclusion: The valve is wide open. :)
It's also possible the valve is defective. An amazing number are, from the factory, or are damaged in installation.Do you know the brand of valve? Remember, on some valves you push in the valve stem to turn off. Others you turn all the way to the right.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
BTW (this is mostly for plumbers who may be watching), that stub the plumber installed for the faucet connection is a bad way to do it -- should have capped the threaded fitting. Depends a bit on water content, but in high iron areas rust will collect in the stub and create galvanic action, eating through the stub until it leaks. (Though likely not for 30-40 years in a residential application like this.)The gym where I go has had about a third of their shower valves fail that way in the past year, after a period of 15 years.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
I have the exact same thing happen but only in the winter. The water line runs directly over a heat duct for about 15'.
So you would put a brass cap on the tub outlet?
Yep, a brass threaded cap. Second choice would be to make the stub as short as possible, so that the cap is touching the valve body. The less length that's there to hold sediment the better.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Nuke,
Are you sure there is an actual valve in that valve body. About a year ago I was doing a basement remodel and the same thing happened. The plumbers roughed in and installed a Delta body with a cap. When the water was turned on it acted as a mixing valve and the homeowner couldn't get hot water or cold water anywhere in the house, just lukewarm. There is a plug that comes with the body that needs to be put in under the cover to keep it from becoming a mixing valve.
Looks like you've had a combo shower/tub valve installed but for the life of me I can't see why the plumber would tie in the incoming cold water to the tub output portion of the valve. If there is no tub then that outlet should be capped off forever.
If you can determine the off position of that valve you will solve the immediate problem of mixing in hot with cold but you will still have the problem when your shower is up and running.
Hot water introduced when using that shower will still be diverted to the cold water line via the tub outlet.
Look at the picture again. It is capped with a stub. It's just that the stub ends almost touching the incoming pipe below it, so it looks like they're connected.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Dan,
Take a peek at the photo of the rear of the manifold...
Definitely connected and soldered.
I think that's a cap on the tub outlet from the mixing valve. The horizontal line crossing under it does not have a tee in it. At first I thought the same as you... "WTF?"
I looked again. Now you look again. The horizontal pipe below has no tee in it. The stub just has a cap at the bottom that looks like the odd leg of a tee.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Son of a ...
It's my age, eh.. bad eyes, eh.. phooey.
Yeah, I had to look twice too. And knowing that that stub causes problems made me look at it a third time.
The mark of the immature man is that he wants to die nobly for a cause, while the mark of a mature man is that he wants to live humbly for one. --Wilhelm Stekel
Let's all look again, but this time a little closer and from the backside of the valve. The tub is stubbed.
I should add that I took a pair of adjustable pliers and gingerly turned the valve stem toward the direction marked as Colder on the plastic stop adapter ring. In fact, I move the stop ring to insure the valve was turned clockwise (towarded the colder directional limit) until it stopped naturally. Again, I did this with as little plier-assistance.
Exactly I think hot is getting mixed with the cold because of it. What he did makes no sense they even usually come with a cap and some tape to close it off. Maybe not but that shower valve has got to be the source of the problem
What I found interesting is that he tied in the cold line from this valve assembly plumbing to the toilet. The bottom horizontal line that continues to the right in the frontal picture actually leads off to the toilet location.
I would bet your plumber soldered the valve without taking out the cartridge...and overheated it to the point where it now leaks inside.
Turn the valve off, take the cap off the nipple for the shower. Now the H&C cant mix.
Hot water is rising by convection up out of the water heater and into the cold water pipe. You need "heat traps" on the water heater connections.