Hi, this is my first time on this site. I’m looking for the most economical and effiecient way to finish my popcorn ceiling. I removed the wall separating two bedrooms to create one larger bedroom. I have installed new drywall where the old walll was. I taped ,bedded, and skimed. Now I am ready to patch the area with a popcorn finish. What is the best way to apply the new popcorn to blend in with the old?
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There are popcorn (aka acoustical ceiling) patch kits out there - most big box and hardware stores stock them. They will do a reasonable job if you don't want to suck it up and do the right thing - remove all of that popcorn!
Of course, I have to ask, the ceiling joists run parallel with that wall you just removed, don't they?
Edit to add: Welcome to Breaktime! Stick around; you'll burn countless hours and learn all kinds of wonderful (and occasionally applicable) stuff!
Edited 11/24/2006 3:12 pm by wrudiger
The wall removed was non-bearing. Removing / scraping the entire ceiling sounds like a lot of work. Doesn't the popcorn texture contain asbestos? My house was built in 1971.
If your ceiling hasn't been painted it can come off pretty easily - cover everything in plastic, spray a section well with water in a garden sprayer, let sit a bit then scrape. Yep, it can be a good amount of work by the time it's all cleaned up - I was teasing you a bit.
And yes, there can be asbestos in it. IIRC, somewhere around the late 60's or early 70's it was eliminated, but the only way to know for sure is to have it tested.
An alternative is to skim the whole area with 3/8" sheetrock. Not exactly less work, but a clean way to deal with the asbestos issue.
The popcorn repair kits are most definately the easiest & quickest way to finish off this project.
I've used the spray cans of acoustical popcorn texture for smaller repairs they work great for a small patch, (2 square feet or less). I have about 16 squre feet to patch, and this method will cost around $90.00. The big box stores sell a Hopper Gun that will spray various mixtures of texture popcorn, orange peel. Can I use a Hopper Gun with my 2hp 8 gallon air compressor?, the box didn't indicate what to use to power the hopper gun. I will also want to match the orange peel texture on my walls.
I've only done small patches with a trowell-on material (total PITA) so I can't give you any experience on the guns. I did look them up and it appears they run at a fairly low PSI (8 to 25 depending on application). The information I saw didn't mention any CFM requirements. I know that's critical with HVLP guns but it appears like it doesn't apply here.
Whats this anti popcorn ceiling thing? I keep hearing it on H & G on TV also. Ya, I agree there may nicer looking things for some rooms ; but it really makes a difference in sound quality where a primary use of the room is audio or even conversation.
Unfortunatly, I have the same anti attitude re PERGO, etc. The floor clacking in this house we are temporarly renting are really annoying.
Edited 11/25/2006 6:03 pm ET by jimcco
I think that a fair ammount of breaktimers - myself incuded, are traditionalist as far as house design goes. and popcorn ceilings are not somehting you would find in a traditional house.
many things that became standar in homes over the years became so because of ease of application and cost. ( which often go hand in hand)
take drywall returns on windows - with no trim, for example.
"popcorn" ceilings were a way for homebuilders to help hide the fact that truss ceilings look like shat when shined across by a light. Remember swag lights? another attempt to get us to accept crap because the hanging lamp didn't show the shadows of an uneven ceiling. scrape it off. Jim
if the wall runs perpendicular to joists that doesn't mean it is bearing.
Yep, fair point. Hey, at least I got it half right!
some might have been mislead by your question.
I knew what you were gettin at. simply asking him if it was a bearing wall would have been more direct..but he got it too.
The best way would be to call in a drywall contractor that sprays popcorn frequesntly. Even then you will be able to see the patch.
While the room is torn up, your best bet is to remove all the popcorn and go with a smooth finish or roller texture finish like a light stipple.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
There are a few options available.
One is the spray cans of ceiling popcorn. Pricey, and they only do a small area each. Also, they spray the stuff EVERYWHERE.
Another is the one gallon buckets of popcorn that you spread on with a drywall taping knife. This works well if the bumps on the existing ceiling are very dense, because the new stuff will also be quite dense.
And there is the texture 'bumps' that you can mix with paint or primer. These work well when the existing popcorn is not too dense. And there is the advantage that you can always add more "kernels" by adding another coat of the bumpy paint, so that you can sneak up on the right texture.
But if it was me, I'd just use some water, and a knife to scrape the entire ceiling flat. Then I'd re-tape whatever needed it, and put a nice primer and paint finish on it.
Unless you're the lead dog, the view just never changes.
Welcome!
A hole is easy to invisibly patch in popcorn. Even a large hole would be. However, a long straight strip would be a challenge. Time wise it's probably quicker to scrape the old popcorn off and be done with it than to do a good job of filling in the popcorn.
To get an invisible patch the basic surfaces have to be very close in height. If your sheetrock patch isn't done very well and hangs down a bit, the entire patch will hang down and look more than a little obvious since it goes from one side of the new room to the other.
When doing a patch I scrape the area surrounding the patch down to the surface of the paper with a surform file, allowing enough room for the tape and a little space to taper off a few coats of finishing joint compound. Lightly sand or wipe with a damp cloth to remove the distinct straight line of the final finish coat of joint compound. Again, if your tape job ends abruptly it will show through the finished product.
Okay, now you have a base surface that is reasonably flat and at the same height as the surrounding ceiling. For the best patches I've used the stuff that gets brushed on rather than the spray. This is where it gets complicated.
Look closely at the existing popcorn to get a feel for how dense it is and how the particles are oriented towards themselves. This is what you are duplicating. You will be well served to detect a fairly even background pattern and separate it from the popcorn particles that form the larger clumps and more obvious patterns. Visualizing how the background and forground texture can be separated will make applying the texture much easier. Still with me?
There's one more step that requires even more visualizing. It's impossible to hide a patch along a straight line for you or anyone. That straight line has to be erased by carefully scraping the popcorn off in random ways, like a series of clouds are floating along the edge. Take some areas down deeper and barely scrape the highpoints off others. Doing a whole wall is a lot of work, but you're still reading so it must not sound too bad yet.
Using a stiff bristle brush, such as a cheap 3" chip brush, start dabbing the premixed texture from the can onto the ceiling to get as even a coverage as possible. Don't try to get the density correct or it will drive you crazy trying. Don't try to paint it on. Tell yourself to only try to apply half of what you think the background is. Only half. Only dabbing. Let this dry completely.
Get up close and look at what you've done verses what's up there. Scrape off what is obviously too thick. We are shooting for every step to be applied too thin, so we can go over it again a little at a time until it blends in and disapears.
An issue we haven't discussed is paint and discoloration coverage. You might be a texturing genius, but unless the texture is adjusted to match the existing painted surface, if any, it will show through as somehow different. Get close and look at how the edges of the new texture compare to the old. Hopefully there isn't any paint and it all looks great, but paint can soften old texture and make it much harder to match. Stains and discoloration can make your patch look like a clean spot on a dirty carpet.
To darken a patch you want to produce a very slight change and repeat it until things match up. By this time hopefully you've given up and have begun scraping all the texture off. If not read on.
The first step I'd take once the texture is perfect, but the color is off, is to leave it alone for at least a few weeks. Many times what seems obvious when we're working on it a nose distance apart, is no big deal from a distance, especially when we have time to forget the patch was even done.
Assuming the patch still sticks out like a sore thumb after two weeks I'd buy a clean natural bristle paint brush, such as a chip brush, and dunk it in water for a few minutes to let the bristles swell with water. Shake it out so it's only damp and start brushing it lightly over the old surface, alternating with brushing the new surface to hopefully transfer some crud. Don't try to over do it or the popcorn will loosen and start to fall off.
Not enough crud? Try brushing various objects to get the color and density of crud needed to blend the patch. Unfortunately the brush will leave clean spaces next to the popcorn, so this step also requires a fair amount of dabbing. It's probably better to leave it alone and let the dust naturally take it down a notch on it's own.
I'd bet a quality patch done with this technique would take me more than an hour per linear foot to do well.
Best of luck :-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Edited 11/24/2006 9:31 pm ET by IdahoDon
He11 of a good step by step there, Don.
I've done small patches with a spackle dabbed on by fingertip. 1 or 2 square feet at the most, came out invisible though. Easier to hide patches in that stuff than I expected.
Good point about the value of removing straight lines- the human eye loves to pick up on straight lines like that.zak
"When we build, let us think that we build forever. Let it not be for present delight nor for present use alone." --John Ruskin
"so it goes"
Thanks.
I can't remember doing anything larger than the shape of a foot. It takes me forever, so even a few square feet sounds like you did quite a patch!
My last patch a few years ago was from a dropped hammer (oops) and the very next week the roof leaked and the roofing company hired a sheetrock guy to do a small patch on the other side of the same ceiling. I felt a little pride when the homeowner asked if I could fix the other guy's ugly patch.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I ran into something similiar. Instead of just patching, due to age of house. Color of ceiling being different due to color change fron old accoustic and new, I bought a five gallon bucket of paint and the bag of "stuff" (popcorn) or (accoustic) what ever you want to call it, taped the walls off, and sprayed all the ceilings attached to the one I had patched. There was no noticing the repair work, no color matching and really aided in the look of the interior of the house! I mean, how often does one paint a ceiling. Me? Never........
Semper Fi
What did you use to spray the mixture?
something along the lines of this..
big boxes have them in the drywall section..
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I used a hopper gun like IMERC showed in the pic. I was lucky and a friend already had one in his tool arsenal. $95.00 is pretty good investment! Think tool additions! The big box stores also have that thin mil plastic to tape the walls. I would use blue tape to adhere the plastic. Let us know how it turns out.
Semper Fi