Proper cedar clapboard installation?
tuolumne
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
I will be using the above to side our home, but starting with a detached garage. I was quoted for raindrop housewrap. This is pretty expensive. Would tar paper be fine on the detached building? – no heat etc. I plan to use a clear finish. What would you folks recommend? Should something be put on the back before installation? I’m not sure yet whether the supplier has smooth or rough finished siding. What kind of nails should I use? I don’t have a nailer, but like swinging a hammer anyway.
Replies
Tar paper would be great along with stainless steel ring shank nails. Back prime all the cedar and hit all the ends when cut.
It looks like Raindrop is similar to HomeSlicker and other drainage-plane housewraps, which should extend the life of your siding. Tar paper or other "regular" housewraps will work fine but your clapboards won't last as long because they won't get as much of a chance to dry out on the back.
Sikkens and Penofin are the two quality brands of "clear" finish. They have some pigment; the brands that don't have much pigment don't last.
Most clapboards are rough on one side and smooth on the other. Rough side out will hold a finish better. Smooth side out is more traditional, at least around here.
You shouldn't use a nail gun on clapboards. Hand-nail the bottom edge with 4d or 5d galvanized box nails, or better, ring shank stainless steel nails.
Backpriming is a good idea.
http://www.wrcla.org/
Tar paper will work just fine on the house and garage. This spring we resided an unfinished cedar clapped house on the coast. The house has faced north on the water for 27 years. The wind and sand wore the siding away...the tar paper underneath was still fine.
The weather was hot, a-nearly 90 degrees.
The man standin' next to me, his head was exploding,
Well, I was prayin' the pieces wouldn't fall on me.
tar paper works fine for the garage, I'd use the Homeslicker type wrap on the house though,..as for nails I prefer 5d double hot dipped galv. box nail smooth shank or S.S. smooth shank NOT ring shanks.....that's my preference, many will disagree, but if you ever have to due any repairs or patching (for whatever reason,say new window(s) or door, adding an opening etc..) removing the nails is tough enough without having to fight the ring shank, plus you will likely end up destroying more clapboard than you would want,...smooth shank will hold quite well, but you do need to use either SS or double hot dipped nails for durability, some will argue the nails are more likely to be pulled out over time, due to wood movement, but I'd rather go back in 25 years to "tap down" the heads than to have the claps split because the wood can't move due to the ring shank, or worse the clap simply pops the head thru the clap leaving the nail behind and fairly inaccessible to repair.
This is just my preference based on my experience and observations. We all know the grade quality of claps (even solid claps, but especially F/J ) has declined over the years and it just seems to me that the use of ring shanks will only add to the frustrations of future remodelers.
sealing end cuts is recommended to minimize water intrusion into the end grain, as well as good flashing details.
Geoff
P.S. If you can get blunt point nails in the above mentioned, it will help reduce splitting, I'd even suggest pre-drilling/ piloting at all end joints, you can get a small version of a Yankee driver for this.
I vote for siding over vented "rain screen" [ http://www.coravent.com/siding-vent-sv-3.cfm ], over tarpaper.
First:
I agree with whoever dissed ringshank nails. If you use them NO repairs are possible.
Second:
re: tarpaper--
Not too long ago I removed a bunch of red cedar siding to repair some rot. (Tenants had piled firewood against the wall and added a poly roof).
I wish I had pics, but the tarpaper was rotted to nothing in lines coinciding with the siding.
If you use tarpaper, use 30#, not the 15# crap I found.
I don't know what kind of ring shank nails you guys have seen, but the 5d ringshanks we install clapboards with here are not that hard to pull out, unless they have been nailed into a knot.
I frequently repair cedar clapboard siding that was nailed with ring shank nails. It can be a pain but is doable. I am working with painted siding so it is easier to mask a little damage done with repairs but if the siding is nailed according to the siding manufacturers (which mine wasn't) it shouldn't be a problem at all.
The manufacturers specify that the nails go through only one layer of siding. Nails should be placed just above the top of the piece under the one you are nailing. This way, there will be less cracking because the siding can expand and contract and if you need to do any repairs, the nails will only be in the piece that you are replacing.
I use the Maze Storm Guard Splitless siding nails which are a double dipped galvanized ring shanked nail. They are skinnier than a box nail and have a blunt point to reduce splitting. If you are using a clear finish, I believe that you want to use a stainless steel to prevent staining. Maze makes a good stainless nail too. I have used them once or twice but avoid them due to the price and I don't need the stain resistance. Whatever brand you use, use a good quality nail. I run across some repairs done with the gold colored spiral nails that get sold as exterior grade but leave ugly rust stains through the paint and many of them are nearly rusted through. It would be much worse with a clear finish.
"if the siding is nailed according to the siding manufacturers (which mine wasn't) it shouldn't be a problem at all."
One thing you didn't mention is whether you fastened into studs or just the sheathing. Ringshanks nailed into the studs "per manufacturers instructions" penetrate 1 1/4" into the stud,not including the sheathing. If the claps are just nailed through the sheathing it's a heck of a lot easier to pull the nails than if they're into the studs. I still think ringshanks are an overkill and create more harm than good.
Also I second the idea of using 30# felt instead of 15#
Geoff
I'm chiming in to second the suggestion to pre-drill all of the nail holes at the ends of the boards. It really cuts down on splitting and cursing.
we've installed cedar claps since 1973
in '75 we started backpriming and end priming
we used to use bronze ring-shank nails before SS was readily available,
we generally install over 15# felt with doubles at the trim...
i see no need for rainslicker.. or any other extraordinary measures.. unless you live in an unusually wet area like MAYBE the the pacific northwet
right now there are two houses i built in '76 about two blocks from my office
neither of the owners has ever repainted.. both were cedar claps, ALVG.. back & end primed
some of the pine trim is falling off the houses
the claps are still like the day we finished.. except the colors are fading
backprimed and two coats of SW A-100
go figger
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
That A-100 was a wicked good paint! Gave some of the most powerfull fume headaches I've ever had though
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
So everyone agrees - no nailing through 2 clapboards? Does that result in one row of nails then?
('bout to install 6500 LF on our house)Jeff
That is the manufacturers' spec. At 4" exposure though the nails end up being too high up from the butt edge, so I end up nailing through both boards.
I've rarely seen it done "right" and rarely seen a problem with nails through both boards. I can see the logic of letting the boards move but it's only 4" and they don't move much. I'll probably get blasted for this opinion, but it's worth what you paid for it.
we never nail thru two claps..
if you have a 1x6 clap with 4 inch exposure.. the clap is really about 5 1/4
so you nail about 1 1/2 above the butt and you clear the clap below
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the many replies. I think we'll try 30 lb felt on the garage and see how it goes. It's a whole lot cheaper than raindrop. Does anyone here do top down clapboard installation? That would result in double nailing, but it seems that it would be easier to start parallel to the soffit and hit the window tops dead on.
#15 felt is fine.Backprime, or something similar, to prevent extractant bleed-through and a blotchy front side.I install bottom-to-top, you can use story poles and/or preacher blocks to hit the bottom and top of trim openings should you desire.Single nailing, I nail to the studs. stainless ring shanks. I hand nail.I install bottom-to-top, you can use story poles and/or preacher blocks to hit the bottom and top of trim openings should you desire.If you want to get real particular, place small pieces of felt or something similar behind the butt joints as you install.I cut the claps slightly long, bow them to get the ends in place, then "snap" the middle in place. Keeps the butt joints nice and tight.
Hi Mike -
The clapboards are 1 x 10 (so 3/4" x 9 1/4" +/-) with an exposure ranging from around 7-7 1/2".
Jeff
so i would nail them about 2" up .. just so the nail barely clears the top of the clap below
if you nail the butts, you wind up with double nailing thru each clap..
you can come back next season and find a bunch of them split..... they tear themselves apart shrinking and expanding
so initially they MAY look better ( tighter , maybe ).. but long term, they will look worse
and it's very hard to convince siders that there should only be one nail row in each course, most will insist on nailing the buttsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, Mike. At least they are CVG WRC primed/backprimed.
I don't see hand-nailing 6500 LF though.
Jeff
Know what's more impressive than hand-nailing 6500lf? To me at least.My wife hand priming 5200 lf of cedar claps with a 4" brush. Then taking a mineral spirits scrub down at the end of the day.It was her idea!Tenacious gal.
Just my experience.....I used 6" beveled cedar clapboards. I used tar paper. I don't like nailheads showing. I used my Paslode trim nailer with 2" galvanized nails with the air pressure set to just sink the a bit below the surface. I hit my previously marked studs continually. All wood was backprimed and ends were primed as I cut and installed. Then I spackled all the nail holes with a putty knife, primed them and put my finsh latex coat on everything. The wood is totally smooth with no nails showing. I'm in Kansas City with high summer humidity and 100 degree heat and cold freezing winters down to 20 below. Siding has been on over 10 years and it's perfect!
Never heard of such a thing, but if it works then hey...sounds good.
Never heard of such a thing, but if it works then hey...sounds good.
It was real common in the Pacific NW in the 1900-1930 era, if not beyond. Of course, they hand nailed back then, and used casing nails (a little bit beefier version of a finish nail). It is, in fact, a nice looking installation, and the track record is good.
But to be clear, the old work was NOT double-nailed. I agree with others here in saying that you should put in one row of nails per clapboard. I postion the nail so it's just about 1/4" past the skinny edge of the previous board. This way, the previous board will not cup when subjected to swelling cycles. Nailing only a 1/4" away makes it less likely that the board will split because the "bridging" effect is minimized.
I've had good luck using a 15ga finish gun for field nailing. At outside corners, I put in one or two 7d siding nails by hand to make sure the corners won't move.
Edited 4/14/2007 4:40 am ET by Ragnar17
I forgot to tell you of my nailing pattern.....I nail at each stud about a quarter to a half inch up from the lowest spot on the clapboards. Therefore each nail is also going through the clapboard below at about 4 and a half inches up. I used 4" exposure.