Replies

1. 
   bobl | Jan 29, 2003 05:19pm | #1

   How much masonary cement are you getting?

   What ratio are you using?

   Over what period of time are you building the foundation?

   bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet

1. 
   bobl | Jan 29, 2003 07:13pm | #3

   single point of data

   As a novice i could do 25-30 blocks a day of 12", those suckers weigh 55 lbs ea.  my wife was mixing the mortar and positioning the blocks up for me.

   Hope you're getting them dropped close to where you're laying them.

   think i was using 3:1 on the ratio (sand to MC)bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet

2. 
   valleyboy | Jan 29, 2003 07:22pm | #4

   The amount of masonery cement has been calculated by the supplier of the block.  Small town and block supplier knows the block layer (professional) very well so he did the calc for me.

   Don't know the ratio as the block layer will look after that.

   The foundation will be laid up to four courses high, then we will stop so that I can get the radiant tubing in place and the cement floor poured.  Then the block layer will come back and finish up to 13 courses high.  We have to do it this way as property is all on sand and if we went all the way to the top, the cement truck chute would not go over the wall to pour the floor.  The block walls are 4 ft below ground and 5 ft above the present grade.  The grade will be built up later.

   About the storage....the masonery cement will be put in my barn along with much of the other building materials.  Barn is 20' x 50' with 12' x 13' high door so trucks can back right in to unload.

   There seems like a lot of info here.....I just want a guestimate of how much brick sand I should budget for as I am five hours away from the block layer and he is hard to get hold of on the phone.

1. 
   bobl | Jan 29, 2003 07:41pm | #5

   With a 3 to 1 ratio of sand to masonary cement multiply the amount of mason cement (think they are 70 lb bags from memory) times 3.  add for waste

   best bet us ask the mason how much he wants  Getting a ton of sand is expensive compared to 10 tons if you dont have enoughbobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet

1. 
   valleyboy | Jan 30, 2003 12:11pm | #10

   ok, so I can look on the invoice and find out how many bags of mortar cement I have coming.  This will only tell me how many pounds I have.  If I use the 3:1 ratio, then I can calculate the sand........BUT....how many pounds in one cubic yard.  I want to know how many cubic yards of sand.

1. 
   stonefever | Jan 30, 2003 03:44pm | #12

   Any attempt to calculate the volume of sand needed is a waste of your time.  (And this is coming from a very anal person.)

   As Mike earlier said, any sand left over will be used somewhere else on the site.

   I've used my excess before for backfilling prior to pouring the garage floor, around the septic tank, in your driveway, etc. 

   One of my best uses of excess sand was to blend in with the extremely high level of clay around the site - especially where flower beds and gardens will be.  Sand (and organic material) does a great job of breaking that stuff up and turning it into loam.

   As the other posters are saying, your bigger problem is the lateral forces on that block wall without properly spaced rebar and grouted cells.

   Best wishes...

2. 
   bobl | Jan 30, 2003 04:14pm | #13

   I always bought sand/fill/dirt by the ton, but about 2500 lbs per yard. 

   I would do as othes suggested, get a big truckload and cover it.  Use the excess someplace else. 

   Usually got a $50 truck charge for going 5 miles, so the more you buy the less the charge per unit.  Last time I used the PU, I paid $8 for 1000 lbs.

   a ten wheeler load (~8yds or 10 tons) will make a mound about 15'x10' by 5' high (memory but I do have CRS) maybe someone else can corroborate or correct.bobl          Volo Non Voleo      Joe's BT Forum cheat sheet

2. 
   CAGIV | Jan 30, 2003 05:53am | #8

   if we went all the way to the top, the cement truck chute would not go over the wall to pour the floor

   Have you considered getting a concrete pump?

1. 
   valleyboy | Jan 30, 2003 12:08pm | #9

   Yes, have considered the pump but being very remote, would have considerable travel distance.  Also been told that in order to pump the concrete, the mix has to be wetter and would prefer to have as dry as possible.  I understand that dryer  makes better cement.

   Also, being on sand, have no way of getting pumper close to foundation all the way around.  Can only get to one corner of approx. 30' x 100' foundation.

2. 
   joeh | Jan 29, 2003 06:54pm | #2

   Have you ever laid block before? You sure have a big stack coming, and a real load of mortar too. Make sure you have the mortar up off the ground and covered, or you will have a bunch of funny shaped paving stones in a week or ten.

   Joe H

3. 
   xMikeSmith | Jan 30, 2003 12:31am | #6

   call your material supplier and find out how they sell it... ask what a small dump carries..

    get a small dump... say 6 - 8 cy...

   it's easier to keep covered to keep the cats and frost out..

   when your mason needs more ... get another small dump.. you can lose any you don't use on site

   Mike Smith   Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   timkline | Jan 30, 2003 03:30am | #7

   None of the perimeter will have filled cores.

   This is interesting. We always lean heavily toward using poured concrete foundations in residential use, but when we use block, we always put a #4 vertical rod in a mud filled core every 4' with Durawall every other course. Our block layer does this as a standard practice.  Anyone else do it this way ?

   carpenter in transition

1. 
   valleyboy | Jan 30, 2003 12:14pm | #11

   Where I am building, the code states that 12" block is sufficient for 7' below grade.  Even so, we have considered putting vertical rod every 4' on the one side and two ends which will be 7' below grade.  The other side will be walk-out almost all above grade.

1. 
   JCarroll38 | Jan 30, 2003 05:29pm | #14

   For every 30 blocks you need about one bag of mortar and 9 cubic feet of sand. A yard is 27 cubic feet. Therefore you need one yard for every 90 blocks. Get at least one extra yard for the first course and for waste.

1. 
   valleyboy | Jan 30, 2003 11:08pm | #16

   Thank you John....you gave me exactly the info I was looking for.  As for using "excess" sand, I am building on a five acre parcel that has the top 50' made up of very fine sand.....just not clean brick sand.  So don't need any more.

2. 
   JCarroll38 | Jan 31, 2003 06:41am | #18

   After posting my message, I thought the total for that job seemed high and it is. For every bag of mortar, you need three cubic feet of sand. A bag of mortar is one cubic foot and it should be mixed 1 to 3 with sand. For every nine bags of mortar, then, you need a cubic yard of sand. For the last twenty-five years, I've bought three bags of mortar for every 100 blocks (8-inch) and seven bags of mortar for every thousand bricks. These are conservative rules of thumb but they work pretty well for residential work. You have to lay 3000 blocks. I would guess that your supplier is sending 90-100 bags of mortar. To mix that amount at a  3-1 ratio, you would need 270-300 cu. feet of sand (10-11.1 yards). Sorry about the mix up in my prior email.

2. 
   EricPaulson | Jan 31, 2003 01:32am | #17

   Absolutely!

   Eric

4. 
   Mooney | Jan 30, 2003 05:41pm | #15

   What Mike  said.

   I prefer to order small loads so the the sand can change location. Theres a bunch of  stuff to use  excess on. Ive never had a problem finding  uses for left over sand.

   Tim Mooney