Quick brilliant idea highly appreciated!
nicoman
| Posted in Construction Techniques on
Hi all,
I’m in a jamb (no pun) trying to install a door. The door was ordered a while ago for what I would believe a knob and bolt, but it has the holes way to low for some reason (low hole at 28″ from ground) and I need to move them.
I called my local lumber yard thinking they might have a 2 1/8″ full round trim piece that I could use to quickly fill it. They did not.
The door is a beautiful, all wood piece with glass etc so throwing it away is not an option. It will be painted.
Anyone ever moved a door hole?
Replies
Who was responsible for locating the bore in the door? If it is some elses fault besides your own send the door back. If you didn't specify were the bore was supposed to be you're not going to have any luck.
You can patch the hole, if it were me I would make a template for my router and change that circle into a square, cut a plug to fill it out the same material, fill and sand the plug smooth with the door, prime and paint, and in that time I probably could have bought a new door if I were doing this for a client on the clock.
If it were going in my house I might try the patch method but it will take time and effort to make it work.
There is a diffusion of responsibility here and luckily I'm not involved in that part, but I still want to solve it.Routing a square hole should work, and unless someone else brings a better idea to the table, that is what it going to have to be then.I assume some form of epoxy-based woodfiller extraordinaire is out of the question? Like that renovation stuff you sometimes see in the magazine?
Will this door eventually be painted?
If so, then you might get away using bondo -- but you'll need to cut away some of the door-center material inside the hole. That way the bondo will have something to grab -- and it won't fall out.
I've used this method once before when converting a mortise-lockset to a 'normal' one.
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I thought about Bondo, but I've never used it that thick. Have you had a chance to look at the door you used that on at a later stage? I'm worried it will crack?
Block the hole first, then finish with bondo.
Have you had a chance to look at the door you used that on at a later stage? I'm worried it will crack?
It's been on my first floor main bathroom for about four years now. The bondo won't crack -- it's designed to handle all of the worst that a car can give it. And the door will be subject to the same stresses (moisture expansion, a bit of twisting from opening closing) whether you use bondo or adobe.
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"Routing a square hole should work, and unless someone else brings a better idea to the table, that is what it going to have to be then."
Maybe not a better idea, but perhaps a bit of an improvement on this one. Don't make your patch a square. Traditionally, a deadman (what this sort of patch is called) is diamond shaped, with the long dimension parallel to the grain direction. Makes it blend in better. To do this type of patch properly, you either need templates for your router or you can do it by hand. For one patch, I find doing it by hand is pretty quick and easy.
First, cut a patch to fill the hole -- no need to be perfect here -- you just want to make a base for the final patch to rest on. Glue it in with poly or a stiff glue like construction adhesive. Cut a diamond-shaped patch from the same type of wood as your door, matching the grain as best you can. This patch should obviously be large enough to cover your rough patch -- a little wider so it has a good bearing surface on the original door material. The patch should be about 1/8" thick and the edges should be tapered a bit so the patch is narrower on its bottom face. Place the patch in position on the door. If you want, you can use some double-sided tape to hold it firmly termporarily. Then trace the outline of the patch (the back, narrower side) with a sharp knife onto the door. You can hi-lite the knife cuts with a pencil if you have trouble seeing them.
Rout the door to a depth just shy of the thickness of the patch. You can use a router freehand for most of this and clean up to the line by hand. I usually use a small hand router plane for this type of cut, again cleaning up to the line by hand. Then, glue in the patch. It should fit very tightly, since it is tapered and gets tighter as you tap it home. Finally, plane or sand the patch even with the surface of the door.
I actually like seeing a well-executed deadman. It's kind of a badge of good workmanship and, if noticed at all, can actually be kind of cool
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
<<Anyone ever moved a door hole?>>
Ever seen a transplanted navel?
Twenty-eight inches is about right for the deadbolt hole.
"Twenty-eight inches is about right for the deadbolt hole."Only in homes for Hobbits..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
<"Twenty-eight inches is about right for the deadbolt hole."Only in homes for Hobbits.>Agree, I find it pretty low as well.
Turn the door upside down?
"Twenty-eight inches is about right for the deadbolt hole."
<<Only in homes for Hobbits.>>
Well, I'll admit to having big feet and a healthy appetite but if I'm a hobbit, where's my never ending supply of fine herb? ;-)
OK. Twenty-eight inches is a bit low so you lean over to put the key in the deadbolt. Or you return the freekin' door.
Or you get all involved in mucking up this one, and all you accomplish is weakening the frame and potentially revealing your cob job through the painted finish...after the whole mess finally dries completely, in about six months. I wouldn't do it and I wouldn't have it in my home.
"Twenty-eight inches is about right for the deadbolt hole."WHAT!!!!???
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<<WHAT!!!!???>>
OK, it's two inches lower than standard. Twenty-eight inches off the floor is about where I hold my most oldest and most treasured tool, about ten-twelve times a day. That suggests to me that it shouldn't be all that difficult to stick a key in a lock at the same elevation. WHAT!!!? ;-)
A typical knob or passage set is placed at 34" to 36" AFF and the deadbolt about five inches higher than that - say 39".That is ELEVEN inches higher than your 28" I hate to make fun of the height disadvantaged becausee I have big ears and small feet, but WOW, you must have short legs or long arms to be using a deadbolt at 28" AFF. There are a lot of primates that fit that description though.;)
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<<I hate to make fun of the height disadvantaged becausee I have big ears and small feet, but WOW, you must have short legs or long arms to be using a deadbolt at 28" AFF. There are a lot of primates that fit that description though.>>
OK. I have very long appendages. And I drag my knuckles some of the time. But just some of the time. Like when I've got a bundle of shingles on the other shoulder.
But we have a very exclusive and discriminating clientelle. http://www.pismohometours.com/images/chimp%20question.jpg
Is there any chance it would fit your decor and/or design preference to just cover it up with a plate?
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Good idea but it's a nice Baldwin handleset so probably not. Will discuss it.
I know it doesn't help you any, but they probably had the door upside down when they put the template on. I bought some "surplus" 6 panel interior pine doors once. One of them had the door knob hole too high from having the template mounted from the wrong end. I didnt notice it until after I had already stained, poly'ed and was ready to hang it. I ended up just putting it up on our guest bedroom and it makes a good conversation piece. Unlike your situation, I could work with it since it didn't have a dead bolt hole. I guess that was the reason that one became surplus!
I've done this. Use a hole saw or bandsaw to make a plug shallower than the door itself. It doesn't have to be perfect; it's just taking up room. The object is to have a layer of Bondo, the plug, and a layer of Bondo, all sandwiched/clamped between two very flat boards with a piece of waxed paper between the door and each board. It's easiest to do this working on the horizontal from one side.
When cured, the waxed paper peels off the bondo without sticking, leaving a very flat, smooth surface with minimal sanding. Clamping forces the Bondo into the edges of the hole really well. You won't even be able to tell where it is once it's painted.
nico... i'd use a hole saw to make a plug, then epoxy the plug in and finish with bondo
since the hole is too low, i assume yu still need to bore a hole at the correct ht.
use your hole saw to bore the hole and it will also give you the plug you needMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks, truly great advice. I will try that.
I'd send it back and let them put the hole in the right place.
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
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Believe me, if that was an option I would have done it.
Just a thought....why not rip the edge of the door off just past the holes, flip that edge over, and re-glue it onto the door? Both holes should be in the right place then and the glue line would be almost invisible if you use a good thin-kerf blade.
It wouldn't be the greatest thing that could happen to your mortice-and-tenon joints and you'd lose an eighth of an inch in width, but it wouldn't be 'patched' then, either, and it would be a lot quicker to do.
Hmm, I liked your other idea better. Feels like I would weaken the whole door by that.
The only part of the door you need worry about weakening is the tenon on the rails at top and bottom that goes into the mortice in the stile. (Forgive me if i'm being too detailed for your kowledge; i'm just trying to be very clear.) In fact, these joints MIGHT be doweled anyway, depending on how the door was made. It would be an easy thing to drill new dowel holes into the rail and the cut-off part of the stile and insert long dowels, strengthen it that way, or alternately screw lag bolts into the rails from the edge after it's glued up, then plug the countersunk heads. If you did this kind of repair, you also wouldn't be constrained to using paint only as a finish.As far as the stile itself, it will be as good as new once it's glued back together on its edge grain....no loss of strength at all.However, the Bondo thing really works just fine. You end up with a bunch of holes in the middle of your stile that way, though, which i've seen (only once) lead to the top and bottom of the stile bowing away from the lock as the door was shut on weatherstripping...which led to more layers of weatherstripping, more bowing...so you can see the potential problem on an exterior door.The Bondo thing with waxed paper works invisibly when i've had to move/adjust a hinge gain for a replacement door, too.
That would flip the hole at 28" up to something like 52" - 56", which is unusually high. If it's a plain slab, you might accomplish the same thing by flipping the whole door, and just re-making the hinge mortises.
The right way to go is simply to send it back and get one that's right.
-- J.S.
I thought about that. The height of the deadbolt isn't as critical as the height of the lockset, so i thought it was acceptable. We really don't know if the whole thing was simply drilled measuring from the wrong end of the stile, as some suggested; it could be the lockset wouldn't end up right either, if the mistake is something less convenient.The larger problem i imagined with that second solution i posted was if the door edge had already been beveled. I don't know about flipping the entire door...usually the bottom rail is wider, no? And this one has stained glass...might not be able to turn it upside-down.
Try a big wad of bubble gum.
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Bore your new 2 1/8" hole and use the 'plug' you remove to fill the old hole, reinforced with bondo. Have had to do so on many occassions with great success. The idea of wax paper on either side reduces sanding.
Let's not confuse the issue with facts!
I use a 2 1/4" hole saw on a scrap board then remove the arbor and drill a hole through a ripped down treated post same thickness as door. This will be a tight fit so some sanding with a belt sander while it spins between your fingers will adjust.
Then I mix up some epoxy and coat plug and hole.
Then I use a c-clamp and a couple of sacrificial scraps to press it into place.
After epoxy dries take orbital sander and smooth up finish.
If staining I try and match graining best I can.
ANDYSZ2
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This also sounds very doable! I've already filled the lock hole with a piece of a baluster and then topped off the backset with Bondo, so this combination of solutions really took away the pain. I'll will saw a piece from a 2x4 and see how it looks.Thanks too all for great ideas!
Drill a new hole 28" down from the top. Install a deadbolt in both holes and charge extra for a high security door. ;-)
If the door is to be painted, I don't see any reason you couldn't bore a new hole and use the plug from the new hole and bondo (auto body stuff) to fill the old hole.
Ok, I posted that reply BEFORE I read the rest of the responses. I guess I was a day late and a dollar short.
Still, I think the bondo idea is probably the best since it actually won't be very time consuming at all and will be a strong, permanant fix.
" If I were a carpenter"
I recently repaired an old 34 inch exterior door (right.....they don't make those anymore....) that had a deep mortise and a couple of old lock holes. At the recommendation of a local Nashville architectural salvage yard, I used Bondo with a filler plug to "make the old mortise hole go away". I found out that there are several kinds of Bondo on the market -- a plain variety (no fiberglass reinforcing fibers), a short-fiber variety, and a long-fiber variety. The addition of the fibers provides additional strength, and with the long-fiber variety, you can fill deeper holes. You have to go to an auto supply house to find the fiber reinforced Bondo.
Roger
The problem with the plug-the-hole and bondo it solution is that eventually, after a few moisture cycles, the patch will show. Not badly, but you'll see the ghost of a circle.
For a slightly better job you could let in a dutchman. Take a piece of plywood and cut out a rectangular hole, about 2 1/2" by 4". Use that as a template with a hinge mortising bit in a router to make a recess about 1/4" deep on each side of the door. Cut a patch of similar wood to the door, bevel the edges slightly for a tight fit, glue and clamp the patches in place.
I've done this several times on salvaged doors to cover up the full-mortise lock mortises, in preparation for new cylinder-style hardware. Even with a clear finish it makes an unobtrusive patch, and it will stay looking good over time.
I use plenty of Bondo too though....