How do y’all handle the client requirements that are important to them but others might see as perhaps a bit odd–do you indulge them or try to ignore them? For example, someone (a prospective client) just took me to task be/c some house designs did not rigorously follow feng shui principles. Now, that was never a design goal for those projects, and the guy who commented on this was completely wrong in his description of the way something should face in his house (per feng shui). Hmmm, indulge him or ignore him? I’ll probably ignore him, be/c he’s coming across as too high maintenance.
Others have out-of-the-ordinary desire for security or secrecy or other. One client wanted written assurances I would never disclose his identity or location. Another was manic about the upcoming sustained 300 mph winds that will be ripping through the heartland of America. Each was otherwise nice and good to work with and it was easy enough to address their concerns. But some are a bit too quirky…
What are some client quirks that have given you pause, or even caused you to walk from a project?
Replies
Cloud one of my first posts, was about my rebuilding a
clients chimney, and my first meeting with him and his wife,
both are some of the best peeps I've ever had the pleasure
of working for, interesting job, secluded location, NO CLOTHES.
I can't tell you the feeling of freedom it gives ya to work nekkid,
"eheeh just kidding " although they were sans clothing most of the
time I worked for them. MY son and myself would be working off
of scaffolding on the top of the roofline when the scaffolding would
start shaking - hear a voice holler out 'Coming Up' and a naked 78
yr old man come up over the side of the staging wearing a l.l.bean
cap and a pair of hiking boots, and something akin to a skint squirrel
hanging out in front of him.--It was a cold morning too! as I told
his wife in a double enuwado one day" yes mam as you know you have yourself
a heck of a man." Dwaine Webb
" . . . something akin to a skint squirrel hanging out in front of him.--It was a cold morning too!"on a cold morning they're skint meeses(or maybe you're just being generous) ;)
Cloud,
Once, my boss and I went to see a prospective client at his 4 story brownstone that he wanted to convert from apatments to one large residence... and...well...
he wanted a beam designed in his bedroom ceiling to support a swing, if you know the kind I'm talking about.
He also wanted a "wet room" in the basement that could be used as a dungeon.
He never called to hire us, if he did, I'm not sure what would have happened. Aside from his quirky requests, it would have been a pretty sweet project.
I have designed hidden doors behind bookcases that swung out that lead to hiddin rooms as well. I get the impression some people just want to get away from the kids once in a while.
As far as Feng Shui, they should get a designer that is a speacialist, no offence, you will drive yourself nuts trying to get it to work. You'll have things set to go for a meeting, then you'll find out you wasted your time because it isn't feng shui, and needs to be fixed.
Or...learn Feng Shui. =)
Edited 6/23/2006 10:41 am ET by xosder11
>As far as Feng Shui, they should get a designer that is a specialistNo kidding! I looked into it once. Then I saw a show where two fs gurus were asked to redesign the same room for fs. Each did it completely different and conflicting rationales for their choices. Kinda like bringing a consultant into a project...they'll inevitably find a big change to make because that's how they get paid. Hard to imagine one fs guru setting up a room, and the next one in series saying, "Hey, it's perfect, nothing for me to do!"
My girfriend has a friend of the family that's of Chinese descent. They are avid FS practicers. I was at their house in Jersey recently for a cookout. Nice house, but we had to enter through the garage and up the basement stairs. At the top of the basement stairs I see the front entrance...completely covered with a large quilt that had been draped over it. When I asked, thinking logically I thought it was for the safety of their children for some reason I diddn't understand. Nope. The answer I got was that it was because the front entrance of the neighbor across the street was directly facing theirs, and if both were opened negative and potentially harmful energy could flow from the neighbors house into their own. There was plenty of other oddities, but I stopped asking and just chalked it up to FS.I guess you can retrofit a home for feng shui as well.
I would love to have all my doors 3.o inside. I have thought about at least 200 mph winds. Its all about money. How much can they afford to build. You want it chin shen, thats fine, here the price.
>No kidding! I looked into it once. Then I saw a show where two fs gurus were asked to redesign the same room for fs. Each did it completely different and conflicting rationales for their choices. Kinda like bringing a consultant into a project...they'll inevitably find a big change to make because that's how they get paid. Hard to imagine one fs guru setting up a room, and the next one in series saying, "Hey, it's perfect, nothing for me to do!"That was Penn & Teller's Showtime series BullSh!t. Funny stuff, that.did<!---->Cure Diabetes - Death Valley 2006!<!---->
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I haven't had anything REALLY wierd. But a few of the more mundane things have been:
A guy wanted all 3/0 doors in his house. He's only 25 years old, so accessability wasn't a concern. He just wanted it to be easy to move furniture around.
An older guy wanted 30' trusses built with 2X8 top chords and 2X10 bottom chords. Otherwise they'd be WAY too flimsy.
A woman I drew a print for wanted to make sure we put in a doggie door for her mutt. I even had to show it on the wall panel layout when we panelized the walls. It was just a little door that the framer stuck in between the studs afer it was framed up. But she was adamant about it being shown on the prints.
Nothing else comes to mind at the moment...
"A guy wanted all 3/0 doors in his house. He's only 25 years old, so accessability wasn't a concern. He just wanted it to be easy to move furniture around."Maybe 3'0" is a bit much, but I've lived in houses I would have liked a whole lot more with an extra 2" on most of the doors...
Why's 3'0" notable in any way? That's all I have, and it's all I spec on designs unless told otherwise. Wheelchair access if for no other reason.
To me, a 3/0 door is cumbersome. Especially if it's in a tight sopt.
I didn't go to work today. The little voices in my head told me to stay home and clean my guns.
I agree to a point, Boss.A 3/0 door required a big swing, much more than the 2/4 door that I walk through daily to the office. It's a little thing, but it's worth considering.I also think that 3/0x6/8 six panel doors look funny. If you're going to 7/0 (or even better 8/0) the proportions are more pleasing to my eyes.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Did work for an old archi once, and when I got to his office, saw he was using a walker. We got to talking and he said he had fallen. He commented that he had put narrow hallways and doorways in when he had designed his home many years before. He swore that he would never design another hallway less than 36". I never forgot that conversation and I still try to use 3' doors whenever possible on my own designs.
When you start carrying materials in or furniture, or appliances, those extra few inches are appreciated.
On my next house, I'm going to try to use the idea of making the hallway 4-5' and filling one wall with bookcases. CAn't think of much better way to use space.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
You're right about hallways, too. I just assume 4'-ish from the get-go. Hallways one of my pet peeves. I looked over some plan sets once and measured the percentage of the houses "lost" to hallways. It amazed me how high it was--up to 25%--as hallways are single purpose space and that makes them expensive. Having them double as a library or display area certainly increases their utility. The only better step is designing to avoid hallways as much as practical. They're necessary at times, of course, but not as much as typically used.
Probably half my clients are of retirement age, or closing in on it, and to a person they worry about access in the event of walkers or wheelchairs. ADA compliance and all that. Personally I like em just for shoulder room and carrying stuff in and out. Haven't found them difficult to provide for, since it's assumed from the start, nor of an awkward proportion. Never heard of a six-panel looking awkward. It's all I have in my house, 'cept for one, and glad for it.
It seems most scenarios revolved around either egos or people who needed lots of hand-holding, not necessarily strange or unusual.
The feng-shui thing happened to me once for a design competition in Palos Verdes, California. It was to design a community art school/museum and included, along with the spaces, costs, materials, etc., that it be designed according to feng shui principles. That was a little odd for a building built with public money . . . and it was pretty much ignored. I've since heard of a legislator in California who's trying to make feng shui a code issue.
I remember once soon out of school where I answered someone's ad to do a layout for their basement. Normal house in a moderately wealthy neighborhood. Single guy, said he was a psychiatrist. And in the basement he had dozens of paintings hanging on the walls, stacked against each other, etc., that were probably worth a fortune. Don't remember if he said they were passed through the family, or if he collected them or what. He kept them in the basement because he didn't want anyone to know they were there. Then he wanted to take me out to dinner for my time. A little creepy . . . I left and didn't try to contact him again.
Kind of a funny story along the same lines. Apparently, in New York City there's an Asian man going around to different architectural firms and telling people he needs interior drawings for his loft. Claims that the budget is huge, but if he meets with the architect they have to be barefoot (something about his religion). Then at the meeting he tries to massage their feet. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't . . . but no one ever hears from him again. Aaaahhh . . . life in the big city.
Edited 6/23/2006 4:32 pm ET by draftguy
Not really quirky, but an unusual job.
I made a mantle for a lady out the nicest, clearest piece of 8/4 red oak. She wanted it distressed.
I tried chains,awls, ball peen hammer, rocks in a bag etc. Even tried a shotgun on a sample to see what it would do.
Nothing I could think of would damage it enough to get the look she was after.
Its really odd to spend most of my time afraid of putting a tiny scratch on something and then disappoint someone by not beating something up enough.
Not really a quirk but one of the things that drives me nuts on a new frame or large remodel is people that worry too much about the frame getting wet. You have to understand that we get about 70 inches of rain per year here too. I guess they never thought about it before and all of the sudden its raining all over the new frame. I tell them it will all dry out fine but they just dont seem to get it. Ill come in one morning and have a sea of tarps covering things that dont need to be covered. The worst is when they start spraying the thompsons water sealer on everything as soon as i leave. Makes everything sticky for days. Everybody has been complaining about the drought this year but im loving it.
We had a client call us one morning telling us those framers are building it all wrong and nothing is straight and so on. Naturally, I asked why he said that. (Mind you, it had just rained the previous day). Apparantly, there were some puddles on the subfloor that were roughly 3/32" deep in a couple of areas. Oh, and if a client brings his own laser level on site when the frame is being built, wait untill they turn around, then punt it like a football. That way, you'll never have to field Q's like why does the top of the foundation dip 1/8" across 40'. Those poor bastard framers dug their own grave when they agreed to work for the client directly with no GC.
I had a customer complain that the lights and outlets werent working after the electrical rough in was finished. I explained that we had to insulate and drywall first but he still wanted me to install some lights so he could get a better look at the place. I brought in a couple of flood lights. He still complained and wanted the electrician back and asked why we couldnt just "drywall around " the fixtures so he could flip the lights on and off. I began to ignore him after that.
". . . why does the top of the foundation dip 1/8" across 40'"maybe they think because you drew it perfectly straight, it should be built perfectly straight :)In the old days when people drew by hand, sometimes they only rendered part of an elevation just to give an indication of the material and to save a little time. There was always the inevitable comment from the owner:"is the siding really going to stop at an angle like that?"
...do you indulge them or try to ignore them?
This sounds a bit like, "Do we build them the house they want, or the one we want them to have." Many jobs have been picked up over the years because of the reluctance of other carpenters to meet the clients' needs.
Most of my jobs are T&M so changes midstream or quirks that come out aren't a problem to accommodate profitably, but for those who bid most work I can appreciate how the extra costs can be stressful for all involved. The more that can be figured out ahead of time the better.
Ignore client's odd preferences. I could use the extra cash. :-)
How about 3'0 doors as panel doors, that be nice. live alone, no doors till you need them.
By "ignore" I meant decline the job. Some "quirks" are more an indication of a high maintenance client, or even one who might never be satisfied.
I can see how hand-holding isn't for everyone, but if you can stomach it, quirky people can be the most profitable. I simply do a gut check and imagine the lowest $ surcharge that make it a no-brainer for doing the job.
Not related to quirky people, but cutting/installing new windows into solid concrete, above ground or below, is a beau cu surcharge since it's so dirty, but have had numerous clients twisting my arm to do the work on short notice since everyone else turned them down. At $700/day I'll install basement windows all year long.
Pulling up to one upper-middle class house, it was odd that the driveway and garage didn't have a single drop of oil on it. Inside the house there wasn't a speck of dust anywhere. *big blinking red light* No problem, clean freaks are simply a 20% surcharge for hand holding. I'm working the same number of hours, actually extra hours for the additional cleaning, and the 20% bonus each hour makes it worth while.
Wording in my contracts clearly states a sort of no-fault divorce so that if either party isn't happy with the working situation, the job can be called off and time & materials are immediately paid to date. It's a way out if a job is being sabotaged by the client. Sometimes it's necessary to fire a client.
The more power and leverage kept on your side the less financial risk in the job and the more those problem clients will bite their tongues and let you do the work.
Some "quirks" are more an indication of a high maintenance client
That's the difference between custom and tract housing. You just need to decide which way you want to go.
I assume that anything's possible. Love a challenge. All it takes from the client is imagination and deep pockets. Meeting with one next week who doesn't particularly like me, prefers "yes" people (his wife thinks I'm great). Few yrs ago, after supervising gutting of the farm cook's house I told him to bulldoze it. Not what he wanted to hear. GC said no, always preserve. Then took him for a bath, escorted off the farm when the simple project exceeded $300k. Last time the owner and I got together it was over what to do with a very large barn visible from the master balcony.
Barn didn't work well (designed for loose hay storage), had a problem roof, and was considered for replacement. My question was what he wanted to see. Nice barn? Hire an archy. Nice hillside with zero maintenance barn? I'm your guy.
The last barn he had built (for his race horses) was around $3 million, very nice. He wanted other than a wood roof. Both the archy and GC told him it couldn't be done, had to be wood (with standing seam stainless). Afterwards, his head gardener, who'd been here, told him about our place. I'm mostly the "furniture guy" there, but he's frustrated. We'll see. Even if it only turns out to be talk, I'm well-compensated. And having fun.
For me, it's no effort to resist arm-twisting about going for volume. I'd be a poor candidate. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I guess a "quirk" is when they can pay for something unusual and smile while doing so. A "quack" is when they can't afford it or want to bitch the whole time. Ha ha ha!Good luck with your project.