Anyone ever see any of this snake oil? I took this pic maybe 10 years ago, I’m thinking. Had this outfit trying to sell this stuff right on the street … out in the open. Without a brown bag even!! How about sharing some of your most outlandish energy stories?
A full gut remodel brought new life to an 1821 home that had undergone several misguided renovations.
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Replies
i think they forgot the decimal after the 4.
if a guy could come up with that ,it would be hard to count all your money.
YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'T
MOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THE
DUCT TAPE.
Ditto what AlwaysOverBudget said.
R-4.0 would be about right.
Jim
no typo, dudes. This is for real s--t. 2 inches buys R-50 and 3, R-60
I googled up this site http://www.p2insulation.com
Did not watch the whole thing - initial impression was they simply changed how they interpret the "R" rating system. Taking into account wind, moisture, etc.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
Appears to be just mylar wrapped foamboard with the same salesman from eden pure heaters.
Yeah, 'simple' ... I'd venture to say they did a lot more than 'simple' accounting of other affects on heat loss. They took a lot of 'scientific license' in recalcing their R-value. I've not seen so much manipulation of numbers since the 700 billion bailout ... er I mean since the 900 billion bailout plan ; )
If 1" equals R40 then why is 3" only R60 -- this time I'm clueless .
Probably as the thickness is greater, it is affected disproportionately by the space time continuum thing and the relative inverse ratio of the gigawatt input of the flux capacitor. ;) Would you agree?
Edited 1/31/2009 10:37 am ET by Clewless1
How much do you bet all these users are the same person?
http://www.bobvila.com/BBS/P2000_Insulation_Systems_is_the_best_in_the_World-Insulation-1-F1177.html
I changed my mind ... if Bob Vila thinks it's good ... it MUST be good ... NOT!!
The thing is, this may be a reasonably good product, but the hard sell and the twisting of facts is a MAJOR turnoff. I simply don't like doing business w/ anyone that uses the hardsell approach. It's one of my pet peaves ... drives me crazy. Look give me the facts ... ALL of the facts ... now I can make an informed decision on whether the product is right for me. I can't stand the smoke and mirrors ####. ooh censored ... I mean crud (with an ap).
Edited 1/31/2009 10:53 am ET by Clewless1
I don't think Bob Vila thinks it's good, a guy from the company is pretending to be 4 or 5 users pushing that cr## on the Bob Vila forums.
this is some miracle stuff,from mr.bobs site:
"i can't stop using it on my buildings. My renters are paying more to pay less on their energy costs.I am curious how others are enjoying their success with the P2000. I just built a 5,400 sqft house in El Dorado California and the electricity bill for a family of 6 has been between $70.00 and $90.00 for the last two months and these have the hottest months we have had in a long time.My electrician started a fire in the garage and the P2000 actually stopped the fire. I was amazed. I still use the electrician, he accidentally let the concrete polisher plug his grinder into the E-box without the dead guard. They paid for it, so no sweat. The best part was that with the P2000, the lack of flame actually choked the Fire from it's oxygen and the fire died before even ruining anything that a paint job couldn't fix. All they had to do was pay for paint and replace the garage door opener.I have 17 houses to build in L.A. Does anyone know who has the P2000 "
now thats funny...........................
it,insulates,its fireproof, he uses it in all his rentals, BUT HE DOESN"T KNOW WHERE TO BUY IT FROM!!!!! according to his last sentence.
plus it saves you so much money you can hire a electrcian that has his work catch on fire while the concrete grinder guy smooths up the cement floor in your new house that someone else screwed up.
this is about the funniest thing i've read for a while.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
And his renters pay more rent because they have P2000.That's funny right there!
i think i'll start telling my renters that i have had the walls filled with argon gas to a r-50 and it's saving them money on their bills. i'm only going to charge them a extra 25. a month.YOU ONLY NEED TWO TOOLS IN LIFE - WD-40 AND DUCT TAPE. IF IT DOESN'TMOVE AND SHOULD, USE THE WD-40. IF IT SHOULDN'T MOVE AND DOES, USE THEDUCT TAPE.
Thanks, you just got me started again.
P2000 has NO APPROVED R-value. It has not been tested to an approved standard. The testing agencies have told P2000 not to use the test results in any advertising. ( I have copies of the letters) The company that makes the foam for them questions their claims. If any of the distributors claim that it has an r-value of more than 1 under a slab, The FTC would love to fine them about $10,000 and that is in writing from the FTC. Their installation instructions don't even show an airspace on the reflective side.
If anybody from P2000 wants to debate it, bring it on. I know the national sales manager, really nice guy but.........
From what little you can see in the pic it looks like plain old poly iso board.
Scott.
It isn't. It is the type of foam coffee cups are made of.
They have exagerrated the claims to the point of unbelievability! I had seen R27 quoted by them and wondered who they were trying to fool. R40 is just plain nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!
Energy Design Update has written several reports proving that P2000 claims are baseless and are in violation of the federal R-value rule. For some reason, the FTC was very lax in enforcing the R-value rule during the Bush years. I'm hoping that the Obama administration will once again authorize the FTC to engage in enforcement actions against R-value crooks.
Distributers and marketers of a foil-faced polystyrene insulation product, met with Nebraska Energy Office staff regarding the marketing of their product within the state, and what product R-values would be acceptable in showing compliance with the R-value requirements of the IECC. It was determined that acceptable R-value claims for the P2000 residential insulation applications are: 3/8†EPS (expanded polystyrene) foil faced board = R-1.45
5/8†EPS (expanded polystyrene) foil faced board = R-2.42
1†EPS (expanded polystyrene) foil faced board = R-3.87http://www.neo.ne.gov/home_const/iecc/consumer-alert.htm
>>>R40 is just plain nuts!!!!!!!!!!!!Yup. Even iso board isn't even close to that. Makes you wonder how the sales people keep a straight face.Scott.
They bought into it or they could not sell!
That would be expanded polystyrene ... not very good. Guessing 3.5 per inch R-value? I thought it was a cousin of the urethane family, but didn't really get a close look.
They are trying to sell, "system" approach.
I feal sorry for people that buy into the program. It has been discussed on several forums and it is definitly bogus!
For reference, IIRC, for a 1F temp differential,dual polished gold infinite sized planes in a vacuum harder than 1e-7T has an R value WELL in excess of 1 Million. In any partial vacuum >1microns, the R value drops to < 100.
Edited 1/31/2009 7:54 pm ET by junkhound
For reference, IIRC, for a 1F temp differential,dual polished gold infinite sized planes in a vacuum harder than 1e-7T has an R value WELL in excess of 1 Million. In any partial vacuum >1microns, the R value drops to < 100.
Well, that clears it up for me. : )
Actually, I have a nosebleed after reading that. Think you mighta put my brain into vapor lock.
Jason
I already knew that ... just checking to see if you did. ;)
How much would you charge me to insulate my house with that?And what is the warranty?
How much would you charge me to insulate my house with that?
Too much trouble to try to calculate, and unless your real name is warren or bill, probably more'n either of us could afford.
Did a study a few years back for a big bamatown utility on a 4000 kW-hr storage flywheel to store energy at overnight rates at substations. The killer was the liquid N2 losses, even with hard vac and gold plating, the dewar container still lost a pint of liquid N2 a day (cheaper than a beer, needed to sustain the superconductor magnetic bearings) but just that smalll cost and maintenance cost killed any payback potential.
Bamatown? Is that Chicago?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA