Replies

1. 
   calvin_ | Nov 08, 1999 05:04am | #1

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   wait for the radiant heat doctor to post his message. tho i've only just met him here, i'm thinking you won't be dissappointed. hopefully, soon....it's starting to get chilly.

1. 
   jjmcgough | Nov 08, 1999 05:15am | #2

   *More info???Is the 3 way valve a manual or proportional thermostatic mixing valve? Who manufactures the valve?What type of boiler? Cast iron? Copper? Condensing/non-condensing? If low mass, is there a bypass loop on the primary side?Do you have an indirect water unit?Any check valves?Any other zones? Is there also baseboard(hi-temp)?Are there isolation and purge valves on the mixed and return side of the mixing valve?From your description, there could be a couple of answers to the problem depending on the rest of the configuration. In some configurations, a pump on the mixed temperature side is necessary, especially if the boiler circulator is pumping towards the expansion tank.If you will post a piping/component path with complete information, I or someone else on this forumn will be able to respond in a more helpful and accurate manner.Jeffps: I also have a toll free fax # that you can send a sketch to if you would like---(800)858-0785 or (810)279-0537 if you would prefer. I have Sparco mixing valve configurations on my hard drive. If this is the mixing valve you have, I will post the configuration that best matches your situation here under your post.

1. 
   Carole_and_Doug | Nov 08, 1999 06:40am | #3

   *The system was configured piece-meal by the GC as we continued with our renovation work, rather than being planned properly as a whole at the beginning.Here's the story:We began with 2 zones on our new cast iron boiler to supply the old cast iron radiators on 2 floors of this old house.We then added one radiant heat zone with one circulator and relay to service 2 baths. Next we separated one of those baths onto its own circulator and relay. Then we added a circulator and relay for radiant heat in a third bath, and also roughed in the plumbing for future radiant in a kitchen, and for a future hot water holding tank which will work off the boiler... So in total, at present, we are operating 2 zones for radiators, and have 3 zones for radiant heat (one of which is the problem).We have flow valves on each zone, and lots of bleeder valves- not exactly sure just where they all are. We are not quite proficient enough to give you "piping/component path" or any more complete info without a good plumber's help... Not sure what brand of mixing valves our guy put on the zones, either.

1. 
   Carole_and_Doug | Nov 08, 1999 07:21am | #4

   *Mixing valves are proportional thermostatic.

1. 
   jjmcgough | Nov 08, 1999 07:31am | #5

   *Carole and Doug,I can appreciate your statement "We are not quite proficient enough to give you "piping/component path" or any more complete info without a good plumber's help.""What you have going on here is a full blown use of radiant heat that will serve you well, as long as it is designed and piped properly. It sounds as if the problem may lie in isolating the only zone not operating for the purpose of purging? Also, if you have a distribution manifold on the low temperature side serving 3 different zones with a circulator and check valve for each circ, it helps to purge with all circulators off, isolating each zone as it is purged. Otherwise, the air will end up in the highest point of the system. Purging, in and of itself, is a methodical operation. Balancing each circuit according to the gpm it requires to meet the flow(related to heat loss) without "starving" the other zones is another consideration. I certainly don't want to slight the work nor planning of a plumber and GC whom I have never met, nor a design (if a design even exists?) that I have never personally seen."being planned properly as a whole at the beginning"".............is the key to the entire process. I make my living from designing systems to accomodate situations such as yours. Unless you have specifically paid for a professional design, your GC and plumber have no obligation to share that design upfront. They should however be willing to provide you with a schematic documenting the piping path, pressure drops, flow requirements for each zone, control sequence as well as a heat loss analysis for future reference and service.Might I suggest, since this is the season for heat, that you, in a very subtle manner, ask them if they have come up with a piping and control strategy on paper to follow as a guide. They may already have such a plan. If not, they should have. Give them a little time to tweak their design. If they can't get it "tweaked" in a reasonable amount of time, then by all means you(or they) should call in someone to assist them.And if you should need further opinion and happen to procure a piping/component/control diagram/strategy, my offer still stands. Combination hi/lo temperature hot water heat and even steam systems with hot water heat can be designed in a myriad of configurations from the complex to the simplest of configurations.Regards,Jeff

2. 
   jjmcgough | Nov 08, 1999 07:38am | #6

   *As I was composing my reply above, you were posting yours.I am assuming you have a primary boiler circulator and two more circulators, one serving each of the two radiator zones?And the boiler is hot water, rather than steam, correct?Jeff

2. 
   Carole_and_Doug | Nov 08, 1999 07:42am | #7

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   The plumber for our GC hooked up a hydronic radiant heat zone, and it does not push water. I think he hooked up the temperature mixing valve incorrectly, but he thinks the zone has an air block. He bled the zone all day and it still doesn't work. The mix valve has the hot coming from the boiler which is correct. The cold comes from the return which is also correct, but the circulator that is pulling the return is right after the tee for the cold line to the mix valve. I am guessing that the circulator is pulling the return water away from the mixing valve, so the circulator is fighting itself and the water is going nowhere... The plumber swears he has hooked zones up this way before, but since he cannot figure this out, I need some help.