Although I have been using PVC for some time, I have a number of installations where I ordered wood exterior trim from my lumberyard and was supplied primed 5/4 finger jointed pine. The material has shown signs of rot / decay unbelievably quickly. It’s mostly at the end cuts. And once the rot starts there, it seems to infect the board it butts to. Even though most of the rot is in this type of location, it also appears in the middle of some of the boards.
I was told that the end-cuts needed to be primed, and they were. However, after I took some of the boards off, the primer applied to the end grain was barely visible and almost all of it must have gotten sucked into the end grain when it was applied.
In looking into the situation further, I discovered that the trim is manufactured by TruChoice Moulding (a division or subsidiary of Arauco – from Chile), sold by it to Moulding and Millwork, and sold by Moulding and Millwork to Probuild. I also discovered that the wood is Radiata Pine (grown by Arauco on plantations in Chile). It’s less dense than Southern Yellow Pine, and there appears to be much on the internet to the effect that if it is not treated with preservative, it is highly susceptible to rot on exposure to moisture. Although this particular product is factory-primed, it is not treated with any preservative. Nevertheless, both Arauco and Moulding and Millwork claim the product is suitable for exterior use.
In looking around the internet, I saw complaints about other Radiata Pine products – to the effect that no matter how well this type of wood is primed and painted, unless it is pressure-treated with preservative, if it is used for exterior applications, moisture will get into it, and once exposed to moisture, decay is unbelievably rapid. I also see that other manufactures use the same wood but treat it with preservative and offer 20-year or more guarantees.
Can anyone help with information about whether or not Radiata Pine that is primed but not treated with preservative is suitable for exterior use or not?
Thanks,
Paul
Replies
I WORK FOR A LUMBERYARD IN CHICAGOLAND THAT SELLS FJP PINE TRIMBOARDS FROM MOULDING & MILLWORK. MOULDING & MILLWORK OFFERS 2 DIFFERENT TYPES, 1 OF WHICH IS EXTERIOR GRADE (PRO-PRIME X) WHICH CARRIES A 5 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY ON THE PRIMER & A 10 YEAR LIMITED WARRANTY ON FINGER JOINTS AND EDGE GLUING. DID YOU USE THE EXTERIOR GRADE, PRO-PRIME X OR JUST THE STANDARD FJP PINE TRIM BOARDS?
WE SELL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF LINEAL FEET A YEAR AND I HAVE NEVER HAD ANYONE MAKE ME AWARE OF ANY ISSUES TO DATE. WE HAVE CARRIED THIS PRODUCT FOR ABOUT 5 YEARS NOW. ALSO, IN TALKING TO MY MOULDING & MILLWORK REP THERE HAVE BEEN A HANDFUL OF CLAIMS THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY OVER THE YEARS, SO FAR NONE IN THE MIDWEST. A HANDFUL OF CLAIMS WOULD TELL ME THAT THEY DO NOT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE EXTERIOR GRADE PRODUCT.
PJP Pine
Thanks for the reply Richard.
The trim boards that were supplied to me were manufactured by the TruChoice Mouldings division of Arauco. I spoke with a representative of Arauco out of its Georgia USA office. I was told that the material was plantation grown radiata pine, and it was not treated with preservative. Although the end-cuts were primed in the field, it appears the primer soaked into the wood like a sponge, and there was no resistance to water siphoning into the end-grain once the trim was installed.
I wonder if the Mouldings and Millwork trim you are talking about is from a different ultimate manufacturer and is not the less dense plantation-grown pine and/or is treated with preservative.
I also looked at the Truchoice website, and it did not mention anything about a warranty or anything about "Pro-Prme X"
I tried to copy and paste the link, but couldn't paste it. The website is truchoicemoulding.com
If you have a chance to look at the website or know about the truchoice boards, in particular, I would appreciate hearing your opinion as to this particular product.
Thanks
Paul
I see there is a 5 year limited warranty on the primer, and a 10 year limited warranty on the finger joints and edge gluing.
I can't find any more than that, so I think it's a pretty much indoor quality product, and they are not going to stand behind the product. But hey, it's "environmentally friendly". Give me old ozone destroying solvent primer any day. But low quality "plantation grown" radiata pine is ludicrous to use outdoors. They should not be allowed to promote it's use for exterior applications.
-
Furniture quality interior finish meets exterior durability in an assured supplyof premium interior/exterior boards.
Moulding & Millwork and Arauco are proud to introduce ProPrimeX, our premium, environmentally friendly,
knot-free, finger jointed and edge glued primed board. It is an ideal interior/ exterior solution for new construction,
remodeling DIY, and industrial markets. An assured supply means ProPrimeX is always in stock for immediate
delivery.
ProPrimeX is coated with an environmentally friendly, 100% acrylic top coat primer which is solvent-free
and comes with a 5-year limited warranty.
The finger joints and edge gluing of this premium board come with a 10-year limited warranty.
+ An assured supply of high-quality Raw Materials harvested from Arauco’s sustainable Radiata pine
plantation grown timber.
+ Cut with rigid precision that guarantees a uniform size and smooth wood surface.
+ Manufactured with exterior glues means good performance in both interior and exterior applications.
Also read this. http://www.toolcenter.com/wood/radiatapine.html
FJP Pine
A handful of claims tells me this particular product has not been in your market long enough. This product should not be used outside as the specie is rated as low to no decay resistance. Read the warranty carefully it waaranties the primer and the glue joints not the substrate. Very clever.
Rotting finger jointed trim
I would like to set the record straight by having everyone understand that what is under the paint is very important. Radiata pine is rated by the Forest products lab as having a low to no decay resistance. In New Zealand you are not allowed to use this product in exterior applications unless it has been treated. In Australia the same rules apply. This product has been sold in the United States with no warning about the decay resistance and it has done more damage to the wood trim industry because everyone ASSUMES that pine is pine. Eastern White pine has a decay resistance rating as moderate by the USDA Forest Products Lab and is the only pine in the pine group that has this distinction. Eastern White pine has been used as an exterior trim in New England for 350 years.
Wood is a great trim that acts like a barometer of the buildings health. I am skeptical of builders who buy price before they know what they are buying.
Even white pine the last 10-20 years is not nearly as good at resisting decay as that which was used a hundred years ago from virgin forests.
decaying pine.........
SYPine that I have the most experience with [from growing it all the way to final use ] can be incredibly rot resistant if it has tight rings or fairly fast to rot if fast growth. [short leaf ]
Loblolly, which is the syp plantation growers favorite these days, bears a strong resemblence to what little radiata I've used." Rots like hickory" is the old phrase.
Slow grown loblolly is O.K. for most uses,i f it's fast grow it has to be nailed fast and expect stability frolics.
Where I'm going with this first I saw radiata I was amazed how much it looked like superpine lobs, right down to the needle knots in the pith.
My experience with radiata as processed trim or trim ply has been mostly favorable though. Since they don't make old growth any more we will make the best out of what we get............
Even White pine
You are correct about virgin pine but we have not had virgin pine for the last 200 years, at least. The fact of the matter is that Eastern white pine is harvested on a 75 to 100year rotation and radiata and it's cousins SYP are harvested on a 25 year rotation. There is no heartwood in these juvenille specie. Secondly, nothing is as good as the old days because many builders build too tight, don't flash properly and think building wrap is waterproof.
Wow! Definitely worth reading this discussion:
Looks like you're not alone. Read this other forum's discussion on the product - defintely a love-hate relationship with this weed-wood product.
http://www.contractortalk.com/f11/windsor-one-rot-problem-58316/index5/
Cheers!