Looking at installing dedicated CFL recessed cans instead of the usual heat lamp incandescents. Has anyone experience with them? Some of the Halo energy star ICAT housings aren’t too expensive, but then I get all confused by magnetic vs. electronic, trim options (christ, I guess the lighting companies figured out the whole razor/blade marketing plan!), and output. These would be used for general purpose room illumination, and from the Halo calculator I’m averaging about 11fc with 18w bulbs.
If I get say 26w cans, can I use 13W or 18w bulbs in them? Fc doubles with the 26W cans, but since dimmable CFLs aren’t cheap, it might easier to by 26w cans and simply adjust the light output with different bulbs, and not worry about over/under lamping the room.
Thanks,
Z
Replies
If the lamp doesn't have a built in ballast, I think you wouldn't be able to plug in a different wattage ... the fixture. I think. Check the lamps out e.g. at Home Depot and see ... It's probably in the lamp base ... slightly different base for different lamp wattage ... but maybe there are ballasts that allow using a range of wattages, so it will accept the different lamps ... w/in reason.
Don't forget the lamp temperature ... it will make a difference in the color you perceive. 3,500 will be in the warm range while 4100 and I think it is 5100 or 5600 will be much more white or full spectrum. Could affect the perception of the paint you used or the color of your wife's dress.
If you use them a lot, you'll be glad you went CFL; good option, but need to shift the thinking a bit and tune into the technology just a bit ... much the same as we do incandescent.
Just built a house that has ~25 Juno CFL cans.... here's a link:
http://www.junolighting.com/Spec%20Sheets/Juno/J-ICPL526E.pdf
We used mostly the 5101 trims with a few others here and there... outdoors on a covered porch, in the showers, etc. Most of them are dimmable.
As far as I know, you have to use the 26-watt bulbs and can choose from 2700, 3100, 3500, and 4100K color temps. My electrician had to do a little research on the dimmers but the ones he installed are silent, no hum whatsoever.
The real b!tch about these things is that they are not instant-on. You turn a switch and there is a ~2 second delay before anything happens. No problem if there is only one switch but we have several locations with 3-4 switches and I had to buy a labelmaker to label the switch plates to reduce confusion... i.e. there's a four-gang in the kitchen that says "island sink pantry desk" and so forth. I assume the owner will eventually learn them and I'll eventually get new, clean trims for the switches, but for now they need to be there. Oh, and when they do come on they are dim for a short period and then get very bright.
Bottom line, you can light up a large area with maybe 200 watts. Not possible with regular bulbs.
You could get regular screw-base cans and use screw-in bulbs, but I don't think you can dim those.
You must have gone poor with dimmable cans!I'm looking at for the same reason, 200W will provide plenty of light. Unfortunately I'm worried that it might be too much if they're not dimmable. I guess I can't have my cake and eat it too.Thanks for the references....
Z
200 w is a lot of light ... even for incandescent ... better hope they are dimmable.
The room I'm lighting has 9.5' ceilings, so even a 26W CFL will only get me 20fc on a work surface ~2.5' off the floor. 10-30fc is recommended for general areas (dining, living rooms, etc), whereas 50+fc is recommended for detailed tasks in the kitchen, office or for reading. Talking to my archy, he's big on dimmers, unfortunately I'm the one who's paying for the cans, so what does he care if he's recommended $200 cans? ;)Maybe I'll pick up a dimmable self ballasted flood bulb and try it in a line-voltage can. That would cut the costs significantly.Z
I have never used them, but from what I have heard the dimable edison base (self-balast) bulbs don't work great.That they get down to maybe 50% and then start flickering or drop out..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Warm up times.I used to not belive the concerns about warm up time. I had some that might have gone blick, blick, blick, 50% light, blick, blick, 100%. Probably within 5 seconds.Then I got some more and all of them have gone blick, 50%, then SLOWLY increased over MINUTES.I found out that Energy Star allows up to THREE MINUTES. But found some references to "instant on" CFL's. But I have seen (or looked for any). But a google does find some. Here are a couple of examples.http://www.greenelectricalsupply.com/incandescent-a19-type-fluorescent-bulbs.aspxhttp://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/462968I have never used an of the fixtures with the ballast and plug in bulbs.----------------------------------http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/e...amp;p_topview=1" By choosing an ENERGY STAR qualified CFL, you are assured that it will turn on in less than a second, and reach at least 80% of full light output within 3 minutes. If the CFL doesn’t have the ENERGY STAR, both start time and warm up time could be much longer.Additionally, many lighting manufacturers offer “instant on†CFLs. Some spiral and mini-spiral products incorporate “instant-on†technology in their products and display this feature prominently on the product packaging. Some covered or reflector CFLs actually do take longer to warm-up, but the tradeoff is that they last longer than regular CFLs. ENERGY STAR qualified CFL products that are covered (like incandescent shaped, reflectors, globes, candles) have a higher operating temperature so they require a compound called amalgam to perform properly. This compound actually increases the bulb life and the light output! The one tradeoff is that these CFLs cannot offer “instant full brightness†The CFL will turn on, but may take up to three minutes to warm-up to reach full light output."I have never realized that there where "instant on" CFL's and never looked for them.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_fluorescent_lamp"The Cold Cathode Fluorescent Lamp (CCFL) is one of the newest forms of CFL. CCFLs use electrodes without a filament. The voltage of CCFLs is about 5 times higher than CFLs and the current is about 10 times lower. CCFLs have a diameter of about 3 millimeters. CCFLs were initially used for backlighting LCD displays, but they are now also manufactured for use as lamps. The efficacy (lumens/watt) is about half that of CFLs. Their advantages are that they are instant-on, like incandescents, they are compatible with timers, photocells and dimmers, and they have a long life of approximately 50,000 hours. CCFLs are a convenient transition technology for those who are not comfortable with the short lag time associated with the initial lighting of CFLs. They are also an effective and efficient replacement for lighting that is turned on and off frequently with little extended use (e.g. a bathroom or closet)."AFAIK all of the CCFL are realatively low wattage bulbs.http://www.energyfederation.org/consumer/default.php/cPath/25_44_168_2179http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/home-...ew/bulbs-ov.htm"CFLs aren't right for every situation. Incandescent bulbs take less than a second to come close to full brightness. The fluorescent light bulbs we tested took between 25 seconds and 3.3 minutes. So they shouldn't be used in areas where you need full brightness immediately, like a staircase. Spirals were the quickest, flood lights and covered outdoor bulbs the slowest. And don't use CFLs in lights that are on for less than 15 minutes at a time, like closets. Frequent cycling shortens their life."I am not a member so I can't look at the actual data. So I don't know if they list warmup times.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
who the hell is gonna remember all the BS about CFLs flicker rates,
dimmers that cost a small fortune,
lamps that cost $$$
dimming rates that pretty much suck
how to dispose of the stupid things
warm up times,
outdoor lighting that takes even longer to heat up
I suppose the burglars will just have to stand around until they can see where they're goingall to "save" a few hunnnert watts ?? what a joke!! pocos keep cranking it out whether my lights are efficient or notit's just another unfunded gov't mandateOK you can have your post back now.
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I tried some in my kitchen. My wife said get those ****** things out of here. The issue I had was that to start them you had to turn the dimmer on high. After they were on a few seconds you could dim them. They would not start if set to a lower setting when turning them on. I will wait a couple of years until they improve the dimming technology before I try that again.
Since we talk about several different "things" which are you talking about?Dedicated cans with built in dimable ballast and plug-in lamps?Or dimable screw base CFL's?.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
They are standard recessed can that I put dimable CFLs in.
The N-Vision lamps are pretty close to instant-on. Inside the globe/shade of a *real* fixture (not a can) you really can't tell it's a CFL. Haven't tried dimming them.
Jeff
Another option ... more fixtures and more switches to adjust light levels from kitchen work environ to good mood lighting for the Mrs. A reasonable option, I would think. Double your fixture count and get good light levels, just switch it 2 or 3 times to allow adjustment. Just ideas
"You could get regular screw-base cans and use screw-in bulbs, but I don't think you can dim those."Just today I saw dimmable CFL reflector bulbs with medium screw-base at Hank's Electric Supply in Costa Mesa, CA. Assuming that Hank doesn't make them himself in the back room, they are probably readily available elsewhere.
BruceT
http://www.lightbulbsdirect.com/page/001/CTGY/DimmableCFView Image
Those dimmable florescents look to be too good to be true. Anyone here used them yet?
Anyone here used them yet?
Not yet, but I think I will give them a try. I've got a bank of cans that has to be dimmed on occasion which is the only reason I don't have cfls in them.View Image
Well, let us know and repost the link when you do. I'd really appreciate it!
10-4View Image
at Hank's Electric Supply in Costa Mesa, CA.
I liked Hank's better when it was Zubies.
Joe H
great thread - thanks for starting it - I hope the bulbs from Grant's link save you the $200 fixtures -
glad the technology is maturing - my experience with CFL's has not impressed me - slow start, warm up, not dimmable - and I have dimmers associated with most of the lights in the house and wouldn't have it any other way -
anyway - good luck -
Well, I was able find the Halo ICAT Energy Star NC dimmable 26W housings for $60/ea. http://www.northshorelighting.com/recessedlighting_1.aspx but the damn compatible dimmers are $60! Well, looks like it's time to reevaluate the budget :)Z
My last kitchen customer has those, and they've been great. She's using a reflector lamp in a standard stepped baffle housing. Only has one that lags a bit on start up.
Have to say that they put out more light than we anticipated, but the light's great for working and for visual appeal.
Most temps I've seen are in the 3000K range, good for replicating the incandescent look. 3500K gives the color I like best, just a bit cooler and whiter.